80's vs 90's

[QUOTE=sonicman]The same 1986 Celtics that MJ almost beat single handedly with a 63 point effort in the playoffs?

On a MUCH worse team than he had in '96?

Sure they got sweeped in that series, but MJ had to output crazy numbers to make up for the crap team he had. Didn't that team have like the worst record to make the playoffs? And they gave the 86 Celtics problems? Imagine what the 96 Bulls would do[/QUOTE]



[B]ALMOST?

3-0 Is Almost? Problems? :oldlol:

Almost is 4-2, 4-3

A good run is 5-1

but 3-0 is Not Even Close to Almost :roll: [/B]

[B]I reckon Jordan even saying that the McHale and Parish were talking more trash than ever that series and taking the Game lightly. Its on video:) . The only player that had it tough was Ainge, guarding Jordan.

PARISH-McHALE-BIRD and WALTON (on the bench) were LAUGUING at the BULLS. Only Jordan recieved some recognition.[/B]

:violin:

[QUOTE=sonicman]The same 1986 Celtics that MJ almost beat single handedly with a 63 point effort in the playoffs?

On a MUCH worse team than he had in '96?

Sure they got sweeped in that series, but MJ had to output crazy numbers to make up for the crap team he had. Didn't that team have like the worst record to make the playoffs? And they gave the 86 Celtics problems? Imagine what the 96 Bulls would do[/QUOTE]

Other than that Double OT game in Game 2 The Celtics dominated the Bulls.

The Celtics won by 19 points in game 1. And they won by 18 Points in game 3.

[QUOTE=sonicman]The same 1986 Celtics that MJ almost beat single handedly with a 63 point effort in the playoffs?

On a MUCH worse team than he had in '96?

Sure they got sweeped in that series, but MJ had to output crazy numbers to make up for the crap team he had. Didn't that team have like the worst record to make the playoffs? And they gave the 86 Celtics problems? Imagine what the 96 Bulls would do[/QUOTE]

Stupidity abounds with 87 Lakers, don't pay him much heed.

[QUOTE=Sir Charles][B]I agree that Pippen was a Scoring Threat but not a GREAT SCORING THREAT which Bird was:) . Then again Pippen was a Better Man to Man Defender than bird... Bird was a Better Team Defender, Clutch Player, Better Rebounder and Ofcourse better Passer-Assister and Game Creator.

Yes but from the Point Guard Position to score he would have to drive in All the Time Against DJ whom was not as easy to pass as you think:no: . [U]Especially if the Game was a Half Court Slow Pace[/U] (whch the Celtics would Force to Make at all Cost). So if he did Drive in and Score when he misses layps or shots then DJ would have oppen lanes to start fast breaks and finish them himself easy as he did many times in the Play-Offs. The Celtics would eventually make them game so..

[SIZE="4"]BACKCOURT:[/SIZE]


Pippen plays (PG-SG) and Bird (SG/SF)[/B]

[B][SIZE="3"][COLOR="Blue"]Pippen v.s Bird[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B]

[B]Bird would constantly Post Up Pippen as he did even in the early 90s. Schooling Him in Scoring, Rebounds and Assits. Pippen would obviously play Great Perimiter Defense but lets remember: this is Bird not in the Late 90s and early 90s but Bird in 84-85 to 86 seasons. A Much Faster Bird with a Back. So Pippen would have to Work even harder than he did to Stop Magic because Bird was a MAJOR SCORING THREAT and WORKED ASOUME OFF THE PICKS. PICKS which would would be Set Up my WALTON and McHALE.

Bird would obviously have a hard time Guarding Pippen one on one because Pip is faster but Bird is known for his "witts". He would just Retreat into a Half Court Slow Paced Game and force Pippen to Shoot. Pip was a Good Shooter but not a Great Shooter and...

We are also talking about Pippen at PG. His role would be to CREATE for his TEAM (which would not have a SCORING THREAT FRONTLINE with GRANT-RODMAN AND A WENNINGTON/LONGLEY etc). Pippen would have to do the following things:

1st CREATE. 2nd DEFEND (BIRD) 3rd-SCORE[/B]

[B][SIZE="3"][COLOR="Blue"]Jordan (SG) vs DJ (PG[/COLOR])[/SIZE][/B]

[B]Jordan would obviousLy Score his High Scoring Games but DJ in his Prime was not an easy guy to Guard himself. DJ was an asoume Post Player from the Guard Position and Loved Slow Pace Games. Dj wa quite strong and loved to use his butt and make you work your ass of in a Slow Pace Game. Jordan might stop DJ from Scoring alot ofcouse do to his great Defense but he would DEFINETLY NOT STOP DJ from MAKING GREAT PASSES to McHALE in the POST, BIRD of the Pick and Rolls (which Scottie never could stop) and PARISH in the Paint.

Then you had Jordan and Pippen doing BOTH CREATING and SCORING JOBS for the Whole Series. Plus Pippen GUARDING BIRD. This would definetly be a heavy Load for both.

Lets also remember that Ainge would also come in for some parts of the Game and this guy was ONE OF THE MOST UNDERRATED GREAT ROLL PLAYERS EVER AND HE COULD SHOOT and ECAPE REALLY WELL OFF PICK AND ROLLSt. In his Prime we was also a QUITE FAST. Jordan would have to work there to. POST UP against DJ AND RUN Against AINGE.

PIPPEN would eventually have to Rest same part of game so Harper would b the Point Guard and this guy would have more trouble Guarding BIRD than Pippen:) .

Nor Pippen nor Harper would stop a PRIME BIRD from Scoring 25-40, dishing in 5-8 assits and getting 10-15 boards.

If the Bulls put in PAXON or KERR as Combo Guards then they would Loose PASSING ABILITIES, SCORING ABILITIES, HEIGHT PRESENCE, STRENGTH and...

DANNY AINGES, DJs and BIRDS SCORING would be FLYING OUT THE WINDOW:) .

Forget about PAXON and KERR playing

So this means JORDAN AND PIPPEN/HARPER would have to play each alot of Minutes because only Harper would be their Substitute. This would be them playing alog of Minutes. SCORING-DEFENDING and being THE ONLY CREATIVE PLAYERS CAPANLE. But yes with a Frontline with No Talent (with the exception of Kucok). Pippen and Jordan would just better of dont pass in THE POST.[/B]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

[B][SIZE="3"]FRONT COURT(FRONTLINE)[/SIZE][/B]

[B]Since the Celtics would use their Big Line Up they would use McHale at the PF, Walton as Center Forward (C-F) in a Twin Tower System (ala Hakeem-Samson, Duncan-Robinson) with Center Parish

You would end up with this:[/B]

[B][COLOR="blue"]McHALE (PF) vs RODMAN/GRANT/ KUKOC (PFs-SF)[/COLOR][/B]

[B]McHale was 6`10 ft (with a 7.2 footers arm range) tht could score 26 ppg at an Efficiency of 60.4%FG at one time. He would not be stooped in the Post by 6`6 1/2 ft Dennis Rodman nor Grant. McHale was a player whom needed Centers to Guard (even Kareem) him and still they failed from Stoping him :confusedshrug:.

Ofcouse if it was Rodman guadhing Mchale would have a harder time rebounding. Rodman might get in a couple of Offensive Rebounds but not as he usually dominated and he would be in faul troule. He could not stop 6`10 (7`2 ft arm range) McHale from scoring. Rodman and Grant would be flying all over the place with Foul Trouble trying to guard McHale and don`t expect Grant to outrebound McHale in any case. Then again McHale would be stoping Grant or Rodman (who ever played him) from Scoring big time.

If they put on KuKoc. McHale would definetly have a hard time Guarding him do to Speed and talent. Kucok would have to be forced to score from the outside the whole game which is not very efficient for the Bulls. Obviously Mchale would stop Kukoc from scoring in Post and would obviously destroy him in Rebounds.

Then again if Kukoc was guarding McHale. You would have not only [U]a worst Rebounder [/U]than Grant-Rodman but also a [U]Very Weak Post Defender[/U]. McHale`s s PRIME Scoring Averages and FG% would be flying out the window with this man guarding him. That is the price the Bulls would have to Pay for putting a more Talentd Scoring Kukoc on McHale. Maybe a little more Scoring but NO REBOUNDING and an EASIER TIME FOR MCHALE to SCHOOL IN THE POST.:) [/B]

[B][COLOR="blue"]WALTON (CF) v.s WENNINGTON/LONGLEY/GRANT (Cs and PF)[/COLOR][/B]

[B]They would certainly Not Out Rebound Walton. Nor Stop him from Scoring. They might be able to tire him off for 30s minutes but he remember Walton is an [U]Ex ALL STAR[/U] = Even Past his Prime he [U]could take his GAME TO ANOTHER LEVEL[/U]. Something These dudes couldnt :no:. Walton would stop them from scoring, would score on them and out outrebound them

Finally...[/B]

[B][COLOR="Blue"]PARISH vs WENNINGTON/LONGLEY[/COLOR][/B]

[B]Parish in his Prime (still 32 years of age in 86) was a man that could average 15-19 PPG while Scoring at an Efficiency of close to 60% FG. Was a 10-12 RPG man and an absolute Post Up Defensive Stopper. Parish would be too Fast for slow Longley and Wennington and Way More Agressive and Witty than these two.

Parish would Stop them from Scoring, Outrebound them and obviously would Kill them in the Paint Post Up to Score.

Finished.

[COLOR="DarkGreen"]The Bulls would have to Play A FAST PACE GAME and the CETLICS A SLOW POST UP FRONTCOURT GAME.

At the End the BULLS don`t have the TALENT and BENCH to PLAY LIKE THE 1980s LAKERS FAST PACED STYLE and WIN. So the Bulls would be FORCED TO PLAY CELTICS GAME (SLOW PACE FRONTCOURT POST UP GAME) and THEY WOULD BE FALLING INTO A TRAP[/COLOR]

There is absolutely no way the 1996 Bulls would beat a PRIME 1986 CELTICS.

CELTICS 4, BULLS 2 (If that)

There is Enough Proof:violin:[/B]

[B]END[/B][/QUOTE]

[SIZE="4"]This is the Evidence that the Jordan Fans and Bulls fans of the weaker 90s don`t want to see:D :confusedshrug: [/SIZE]

[QUOTE=72-10][B]Stupidity abounds with 87 Lakers[/B], don't pay him much heed.[/QUOTE]


Comparing Penny Hardaway and Chris Webber to Magic Johnson and Charles Barkley is stupid.

Saying Sam Perkins was a Center for the '91 Lakers is stupid.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers]Comparing Penny Hardaway and Chris Webber to Magic Johnson and Charles Barkley is stupid.

Saying Sam Perkins was a Center for the '91 Lakers is stupid.[/QUOTE]

i dont know why perkins was listed as a pf and center same as thompson kareem and divac were the centers. but ,like i said add ac green respective seasons and the lakers got about the same production. please explain why.
AND MY QUESTION IS STILL NOT ANSWERED. I i will assume that since your avoiding it you must agree.

[QUOTE=Sir Charles][SIZE="4"]This is the Evidence that the Jordan Fans and Bulls fans of the weaker 90s don`t want to see:D :confusedshrug: [/SIZE][/QUOTE]

So true:roll:

[QUOTE=97 bulls]i dont know why perkins was listed as a pf and center same as thompson kareem and divac were the centers. but ,like i said add ac green respective seasons and the lakers got about the same production. please explain why.
AND MY QUESTION IS STILL NOT ANSWERED. I i will assume that since your avoiding it you must agree.[/QUOTE]

1987 Lakers vs 1991 Lakers

'87..............'91
C - Kareem / Thompson [B]>[/B] Divac / Thompson
PF - Green / Rambis [B]<[/B] Perkins / Green
SF - '87 Worthy [B]> [/B]'91 Worthy
SG - '87 Byron Scott / Cooper [B]>[/B] '91 Byron Scott / Terry Teagle
PG - ' 87 Magic [B]>[/B] '91 Magic

Coach
Pat Riley [B]>[/B] Mike Dunleavy

To even compare the '87 Lakers to the '91 Lakers is retarded. The Lakers were much more dominant in '87. They won 65 games and they had a record of 43-8 once Mychal Thompson arrived to LA.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers]1987 Lakers vs 1991 Lakers

'87..............'91
C - Kareem / Thompson > Divac / Thompson
PF - Green / Rambis < Perkins / Green
SF - '87 Worthy > '91 Worthy
SG - '87 Byron Scott / Cooper > '91 Byron Scott / Terry Teagle
PG - ' 87 Magic > '91 Magic

Coach
Pat Riley > Mike Dunleavy

To even compare the '87 Lakers to the '91 Lakers is retarded. The Lakers were much more dominant in '87. They won 65 games and they had a record of 43-8 once Mychal Thompson arrived to LA.[/QUOTE]
i dont see why magic was the reigning back to back mvp worthy had his highest scoring average and the overall output from their bigmen is the same

[QUOTE=97 bulls]i dont see why magic was the reigning back to back mvp worthy had his highest scoring average and the overall output from their bigmen is the same[/QUOTE]

Magic's best season was without a doubt in '87. He had the greatest PG season in NBA History. Any Magic Johnson fan will tell you that. Worthy was also better in '87. That was the year he earned the nickname "BIG GAME JAMES". he averaged more points in '91 because the '91 lakers didn't have the weapons they had in '87 so they relied more on Worthy. Worthy only shot 14.7 attempts per game in '87 while in '91 shot 18.7 attempts per game. In the playoffs James Worthy was much better in '87. In the '87 Playoffs he averaged 23.6 PPG while shooting 59 FG%. In the '91 playoffs he averaged 21.1 PPG but was shooting 46.5 FG%.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers]Magic's best season was without a doubt in '87. He had the greatest PG season in NBA History. Any Magic Johnson fan will tell you that. Worthy was also better in '87. That was the year he earned the nickname "BIG GAME JAMES". he averaged more points in '91 because the '91 lakers didn't have the weapons they had in '87 so they relied more on Worthy. Worthy only shot 14.7 attempts per game in '87 while in '91 shot 18.7 attempts per game. In the playoffs James Worthy was much better in '87. In the '87 Playoffs he averaged 23.6 PPG while shooting 59 FG%. In the '91 playoffs he averaged 21.1 PPG but was shooting 46.5 FG%.[/QUOTE]

well, thats statistically, he was the back to back mvp so he wasnt on the decline. and i know worthys fg% was down and that was probably because he decided to start shooting threes. and as far as playoffs, i dont think you can call 2 points differrnce a decline.

im still waiting for my the answer to my question, would it have been better if the bulls had lost to the knicks or utah in the seasons they went to the finals? not in 94 without jordan or in 95 with a rusty jordan.

[QUOTE=97 bulls]im still waiting for my the answer to my question, would it have been better if the bulls had lost to the knicks or utah in the seasons they went to the finals? not in 94 without jordan or in 95 with a rusty jordan.[/QUOTE]

I really don't get that question.

[QUOTE=97 bulls]and once again, why because the bulls destroyed everyone they played and the celtics couldnt. it sounds to me that by your logic,[B] if utah or the knicks beat the bulls then the bulls would then be better[/B].:hammerhead: now how ridiculous is that. but please answer this question, if the bulls lost the knicks or utah once or twice would that give more credence to their dominance.[/QUOTE]

Ok I get what you are saying. The Answer is [B]NO[/B].

But keep in mind those Knicks and Utah teams were no where near as good as the '82-'83 Sixers,' 88-'89 Pistons, and the '85-'87 Lakers. Those teams were the reasons why the Celtics didn't dominate like the Bulls did. If those 80's Celtics played in the 90's and Jordan's Bulls never existed...those Celtics would have been just as if not more dominant than Jordan's Bulls.

Like i said earlier The Jazz had Greg Ostertag and Bryon Russell in the starting line up. That team would not make the finals in the mid 80's. My point is there were much better teams in the 80's than in the 90's. Which is one of the reasons why the 80's were a better decade.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers]1987 Lakers vs 1991 Lakers

'87..............'91
C - Kareem / Thompson [B]>[/B] Divac / Thompson
PF - Green / Rambis [B]<[/B] Perkins / Green
SF - '87 Worthy [B]> [/B]'91 Worthy
SG - '87 Byron Scott / Cooper [B]>[/B] '91 Byron Scott / Terry Teagle
PG - ' 87 Magic [B]>[/B] '91 Magic

Coach
Pat Riley [B]>[/B] Mike Dunleavy

To even compare the '87 Lakers to the '91 Lakers is retarded. The Lakers were much more dominant in '87. They won 65 games and they had a record of 43-8 once Mychal Thompson arrived to LA.[/QUOTE]

[B]I can`t believe people are comparing the 1987 Lakers with the 1991 Lakers. You got to be kidding me:rolleyes: [/B]