Why are ball-dominance, defense, and spacing fit ignored in all-time starting 5s?

[QUOTE=navy]Nah, I dont think that is an exploitable offensive squad. Too many scoring threats. And outside of Moses, they are all very capable passers despite being scorers first.

Spacing could be an issue for a squad, but that usually only happens when you force people out of their positions to make up a roster. :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
Just a note, I have Karl at PF, not Moses. Was trying not to put them out of position.

LeBron is the only superstar who needs "floor spacing" and that's mainly to pad his fg %.

First of all, those all-time teams are not assembled to compete with other all-time teams, or play competitively in an 82 game season.

They're usually selected according to the "best player at position," over the greater scheme of things.

Second of all, there is no simulator accurate enough to test the all-time roster to fine tune them. :oldlol:

[QUOTE=fpliii]
1) Rose, MJ, and Scottie have demonstrated the ability to make 3s, but how much do we trust them as elite shooters (since we have plenty of ball-handling)?[/quote]
Elite from 3? Why is that even necessary? It's not a shot you can bank on consistently making even as an elite three point specialist. It's always been fool's gold. You live by it, you die by it.

All 3 of those guys can hit the three though anyway, well even, especially when left open. There isn't a need for a three point specialist on the floor at all times for proper spacing. All those guys can shoot.

[quote=fpliii]2) MJ was incredibly effective with and without the ball, but both Scottie and Rose are best with the rock in their hands. How can we involve both of them enough in the offense?[/QUOTE]
Scottie can play off the ball. He's a slasher, and can rebound. Don't buy the Roundball_Rock nonsense. Pippen wasn't the exclusive PG / Playmaker for the Bulls. Paxson, BJ, Jordan, Harper, Kukoc all we able to initiate the triangle offense bringing the ball up.

[QUOTE=SamuraiSWISH]Elite from 3? Why is that even necessary? It's not a shot you can bank on consistently making even as an elite three point specialist. It's always been fool's gold. You live by it, you die by it.[/QUOTE]

I think it has to do with today's philosophy of analytics, which is scoring at a high rate in the painted area and take/make a lot of 3's.

In the past, the 3 point shot used to be frowned upon in it's earlier stages. Now, it's the mid-range or "long 2" (to be average at mid-range, you have hit about 51.7%. Video explains: [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qea2Ka9psdY[/url] not that I really agree with it in total) that's frowned upon if you are lacking a consistent 3 point shot and/or getting to the free throw line.

[QUOTE=SamuraiSWISH]All-Time Starting Five

[IMG]http://th08.deviantart.net/fs71/200H/f/2014/132/2/d/chicago_bulls_all_time_dream_team_by_jayray_by_artworkbyjayray-d7i448i.jpg[/IMG]

OP, it's the dynasty 90's Bulls with Noah subbed for Longley / Cartwright and D. Rose subbed for Paxson / Armstrong / Harper ... does it work from an actual chemistry formula perspective?[/QUOTE]

Shut the **** up, you jordan homer. I cant' believe you actually pretend to be a real bulls fan with all the shit you say. ****ing pathetic, mongrel, piece of garbage.

This is the reason why I often have Dirk-Shaq as my PF/C combo in this best starting 5 scenarios.

2012 Lebron
1991 Jordan
1988 Bird
2011 Dirk
2000 Shaq

I'd put that 5 against any other 5..

Yall keep cheating with Lebron at point guard...

[QUOTE=navy]Yall keep cheating with Lebron at point guard...[/QUOTE]
How is that cheating? He has elite point guard vision, he guards the top point guards often, he's the primary ball handler, and runs an offense that is based on his playmaking ability hence putting shooters around him...he's basically played PG for every team he's been on. The only thing separating him from being categorized exclusively as a PG is the fact that he's the size of a PF. He's no less of a PG than Kyrie Irving or Damian Lillard..he's just a physical monster and substantially better at it.

If anything having Lebron at PG over Magic makes more sense in these scenarios because all of these HOF guys people put on these starting 5s are all capable scorers anyways, they don't need a pure PG feeding them at all times..Lebron as yet another top-tier iso scoring option, while still being able to run the offense as a point when necessary, is much deadlier. And then his defensive impact..

[QUOTE=Milbuck]How is that cheating? He has elite point guard vision, he guards the top point guards often, he's the primary ball handler, and runs an offense that is based on his playmaking ability hence putting shooters around him...he's basically played PG for every team he's been on. The only thing separating him from being categorized exclusively as a PG is the fact that he's the size of a PF. He's no less of a PG than Kyrie Irving or Damian Lillard..he's just a physical monster and substantially better at it.[/QUOTE]
I never said he couldnt play the postion, I said it's cheating putting him at a position that he has started like once out of 1000 games.

[QUOTE=navy]I never said he couldnt play the postion, I said it's cheating putting him at a position that he has started like once out of 1000 games.[/QUOTE]
Well now we're just looking at technicalities..if he's fully capable of playing the position and it works out, should be fair game.

[QUOTE=Milbuck]Well now we're just looking at technicalities..if he's fully capable of playing the position and it works out, should be fair game.[/QUOTE]
Well, I mean how many all time PG list would Lebron be on if we werent team building?

Might make for a better team, but still....

Cheating :no:

That goes for alot of players outside of Lebron. Ive seen some crazy(yet effective) line-ups. Where was that team with KG at SF and Lebron at SG. Come on now. :oldlol:

[QUOTE=Smoke117]Shut the **** up, you jordan homer. I cant' believe you actually pretend to be a real bulls fan with all the shit you say. ****ing pathetic, mongrel, piece of garbage.[/QUOTE]
Bad day at El Pollo Loco bud?

[QUOTE=SamuraiSWISH]Bad day at El Pollo Loco bud?[/QUOTE]

To be fair, I think your team lacks PURE shooting.

I'm digging the Noah for Longley subsitution. That front-line would be TOO sick. :pimp:

[QUOTE=fpliii]:confusedshrug:

Seriously, a lot of these lineups:

1) Have too many guys who need the ball in their hands (to create for themselves or others) to be effective.
2) Can't defend any their position well and/or play passable team defense.
3) Have too many guys who score driving or posting up, crowding your paint.

There are also general problems with fit (guys most effective playing in a freestyle vs structured offense, half court vs transition, too many guys wanting to take the big shot, etc.)

Is the implication that if you have enough talent, you can win despite these issues (like a Team USA, for instance)?

I guess some guys have demonstrated the willingness to take on different roles on stacked teams in their career, but they seem to be the exception rather than the rule[/QUOTE]

I've long wondered this too. No disrespect to anyone on this board, but it seems like the views here are pretty... childish... save for a few posters. Just see a "glitzy" name and plug them in. Don't consider anything beyond that.

Don't get me wrong, that are a lot of knowledgeable posters here.. but the majority of those in the "starting 5" threads seem to be childish.

And my favorite all time starting 5 to bash on is...

Magic
Jordan
Lebron
Duncan
Shaq

That team, while ridiculously talented at each position, has one player that is trustworthy outside of 18 feet. Not to mention Duncan is the only player comfortable playing without the ball for long stretches.

Totally inferior team that should give the team above a run for its money...

Billups
Bowen
Bird
Dirk
Kareem

Needed some front court muscle since I went with some seriously underwhelming perimeter players. But that team, while clearly less talented, has a real shot at winning.