What's wrong with LeBron?

I think his athleticism is the same and his explosiveness is the same, he just isnt trying as hard as he was last year, he knows he's going to NY or Jersey, he knows hes gonna start selling his new number 6 jerseys on his new team and make a ton of cash of jersey sales and shoes, his heart just doesnt seem to be in Cleveland very much and you can see it in his game

He's still beasting because he has so much talent but he doesnt seem as hungry as last year

he's saving it for the dunk contest

Have been saying this since Game 1 of the preseason. For whatever reason he just doesn't have his old explosivness. Haven't seen him make one impressive leap in the half-court all season(can he?). And the YT highlights posted from tonight's game only reaffirm that. He barely got up on the 2 dunks he had at 0:23 & 1:57.

And :oldlol: @ the pacing himself bit. He's freaking 24 years old and historically has always looked as explosive in April/May/June as he has in December. So it's not like there's been a burn-out issue in the past. Would make NO sense for him to not jump like he can ALL THE TIME. But that's what we're seeing right now. LeBron hasn't displayed his old leaping ability in every game, every drive of this season so far.

Fortunately the other aspects of his offensive game have come a long way. He's shooting 53% despite being more perimeter oriented than ever. 05-08 LeBron would've struggled to produce at a superstar level with his current body.

[QUOTE=Indian guy]Have been saying this since Game 1 of the preseason. For whatever reason he just doesn't have his old explosivness. Haven't seen him make one impressive leap in the half-court all season(can he?). And the YT highlights posted from tonight's game only reaffirm that. He barely got up on the 2 dunks he had at 0:23 & 1:57.

And :oldlol: @ the pacing himself bit. He's freaking 24 years old. Why would he suddenly decide to not jump like he can ALL THE TIME? It's not like we're only talking about a few possessions here. LeBron hasn't displayed his old leaping ability in every game, every drive of this season so far.

Good thing the other aspects of his offensive game have come along as far as they have. He's shooting 53% despite being more perimeter oriented than ever. 05-08 LeBron would've struggled to produce at a superstar level with his current body.[/QUOTE]
Why am I the only one who doesn't see a decline? Can somebody link me to a clip where Lebron is clearly more explosive/athletic than he was vs. Indiana or Philly? In the last few games, it seems to me as if his athleticism is the same as it was last year.

[QUOTE=che guevara]Why am I the only one who doesn't see a decline? Can somebody link me to a clip where Lebron is clearly more explosive/athletic than he was vs. Indiana or Philly? In the last few games, it seems to me as if his athleticism is the same as it was last year.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ve5lSjtmE4Q[/url]
His head is almost rim level...

[QUOTE=che guevara]Why am I the only one who doesn't see a decline?[/QUOTE]

His speed/quickness for the most part seems fine. His leaping/explosiveness in the paint sure as hell isn't. And that's obvious on every drive/layup/dunk he has made this season. Just watch the 2 dunks at :23 & 1:57 from tonight's game itself: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tv0-uvQKIw[/url]. Surely you can see that he barely got up?

And watch ANY highlight clip of his prior to this season to see a NOTICEABLY more explosive LeBron.

[QUOTE=Indian guy]His speed/quickness for the most part seems fine. His leaping/explosiveness in the paint sure as hell isn't. And that's obvious on every drive/layup/dunk he has made this season. Just watch the 2 dunks at :23 & 1:57 from tonight's game itself: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tv0-uvQKIw[/url]. Surely you can see that he barely got up?

And watch ANY highlight clip of his prior to this season to see a NOTICEABLY more explosive LeBron.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure what to make of that. I have no idea if he didn't get his head to rim level because he couldn't, or just because he didn't have to. He didn't need to jump that high on either attempt. Or maybe it's just rust - as I said, I remember this same thing being discussed at the beginning of last season, too. If he never gets his head to rim level or shows his old explosiveness after the season is over, then we'll know something is up - but right now, it's only 14 games into the season, and the sample size we're looking at is just too small.

[QUOTE=che guevara]I'm not sure what to make of that. I have no idea if he didn't get his head to rim level because he couldn't, or just because he didn't have to. He didn't need to jump that high on either attempt. Or maybe it's just rust - as I said, I remember this same thing being discussed at the beginning of last season, too. If he never gets his head to rim level or shows his old explosiveness after the season is over, then we'll know something is up - but right now, it's only 14 games into the season, and the sample size we're looking at is just too small.[/QUOTE]
It's not about sample size in this case. This is something that used to happen 3 or 4 times a game, and now hasn't happened for 14 games...just seems a bit weird.

Yeah if he has declined leaping wise, it would definitely have to deal with a muscle mass gain.. not necessarily a decline in his overall athleticism. I stopped working out for a month and a half because of a shoulder injury, and lost a lot of my muscle mass.. but when I came back, I was jumping almost higher than before because I was lighter. Weight is a big factor.

Early on I also thought something wasn't right about him explosion wise but I think my perception was off because he wasn't getting out on the break/dunking as much but Lebron is OK. Dude still has his hops and explosion as you can see here...

[URL=http://img688.imageshack.us/i/lebronele.jpg/][IMG]http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/3218/lebronele.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

@ 14 & 19 secs getting head level vs the Bulls from like a week or two ago:lol

[b]lebron james dunks on bulls[/b]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hft4i9F65IU[/url]


or his cheetah like acceleration/speed as he chases down Monta the other night for rejection

[b]LeBron Skies and Rejects Ellis[/b]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qwkIjJktOQ[/url]

[QUOTE=che guevara]He didn't need to jump that high on either attempt.[/quote]

Of course he didn't need to jump high in order to DUNK the ball. There's never a reason to jump as high as great leapers do! But they still do because they CAN. Why would LeBron suddenly stop at 24? Only if he CAN'T, and through 14 games he's clearly shown that he CAN'T.

[quote]Or maybe it's just rust - as I said, I remember this same thing being discussed at the beginning of last season, too.[/quote]

That was just a 3-5 game issue and he was back better than ever after that. The current slump has almost lasted 2 months!

[quote]but right now, it's only 14 games into the season, and the sample size we're looking at is just too small.[/QUOTE]

But what does the amount of games have to do with anything? A great leaper, at the freaking age of 24, should be expected to be a great leaper barring injury or being out of shape/poor conditioning. LeBron doesn't have those issues. I've never seen or heard of a great athlete suddenly losing his vertical at LeBron's age. But he has and it's not like we're looking at a small sample(even though the # of games is irrelevant anyway). Including preseason, this is nearly 2 months of the game's best athlete suddenly displaying a lack of explosiveness/elite leaping.

[quote]Yeah if he has declined leaping wise, it would definitely have to deal with a muscle mass gain[/quote]

That's what I believe is the case too, except LeBron's gained muscle mass EVERY year he's been in the league and it hasn't had the slightest impact(negative) on his explosiveness/leaping. He's gotten better athetically every year, if anything. So what went wrong now?

[QUOTE=Diesel J]Early on I also thought something wasn't right about him explosion wise but I think my perception was off because he wasn't getting out on the break/dunking as much but Lebron is OK. Dude still has his hops and explosion as you can see here...

[URL=http://img688.imageshack.us/i/lebronele.jpg/][IMG]http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/3218/lebronele.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

@ 14 & 19 secs getting head level vs the Bulls from like a week or two ago:lol

[b]lebron james dunks on bulls[/b]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hft4i9F65IU[/url][/quote]

These 2 plays were a result of near-full court runs though. His real issue is his leaping/explosiveness off of short distances(3pt line to basket and shorter).

[QUOTE=Indian guy]
That's what I believe is the case too, except LeBron's gained muscle mass EVERY year he's been in the league and it hasn't had the slightest impact(negative) on his explosiveness/leaping. He's gotten better athetically every year, if anything. So what went wrong now?[/QUOTE]
If what you're saying really is true, that he has lost some of his vertical, it's almost certainly because of the wear and tear on his body. Prior to this season, he played 472 games, not counting two deep runs in the postseason - including this season and all playoff games, he's played 545 games.

I think this is evidence that wear and tear is more of a factor in an athlete's decline than age. I'm sure you've heard of the 1000 game theory, that players decline significantly around that mark - Lebron, at the age of 24, is already more than halfway there. KG, despite being only 33, has declined very significantly, and it's probably because of the wear and tear he's accumulated from coming straight out of High School. It's not like 33 is an advanced age for a basketball player - players like Kareem, Steve Nash, Chauncey Billups, and Karl Malone didn't show much decline at all 33.

I don't think he got better athletically every year, though - Lebron in 2007 seemed less athletic (and worse in every way) than he was before or after.

[QUOTE=che guevara]Lebron in 2007 seemed less athletic (and worse in every way) than he was before or after.[/QUOTE]

There were threads on here in 2007 just like this one in saying that Lwbron was washed up because his athleticism was gone:lol