ISH All-time Top 25 Guards Project: #2 Kobe Bryant vs Magic Johnson.

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]If only your reading comprehension was on par with your childish name calling :facepalm[/QUOTE]
Oh so more than Kobe, okay, thanks that is all I wanted to know.

So Kobe is inferior to Magic in three of the most important accomplishments of greatness? Thanks.

[QUOTE=ThaSwagg3r]Oh so more than Kobe, okay, thanks that is all I wanted to know.

So Kobe is inferior to Magic in three of the most important accomplishments of greatness? Thanks.[/QUOTE]

You can count well too. Outside of insulting me, your counter argument consists of detailing Magic's only advantage which I described in my post in the first place. :oldlol:

MVP's
Magic: 3
Kobe: 1

Finals MVP's
Magic: 3 ( should have been 4, in 88)
Kobe: 2

[QUOTE]MVP's
Magic: 3
Kobe: 1

Finals MVP's
Magic: 3 ( should have been 4, in 88)
Kobe: 2
[/QUOTE]

vs

All league defensive awards
Magic: [B]0[/B]
Kobe: 11

All league awards

Magic: 10
Kobe: 13

All star awards

Magic: 12 (should be 11)
Kobe: 13 (should be 14)

All Star MVPs

Magic: 2
Kobe: 4

:confusedshrug:

Not sure why people pretend defense isn't 50% of the game

Magic has 2 Finals MVP's. lol @ dude getting 1980 Finals MVP. :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=iamgine]Too predictable. Kobe #3. Magic #2. Jordan #1.

Maybe people can vote Kobe #2 so he can go up against MJ?[/QUOTE]

then it will be MUCH less debatable... it will just turn into us bashing kobe / few kobe fans for saying that he is better than Jordan :lol

Magic's absolute prime('87-'91) was slightly better than Kobe's, imo. But Kobe had a longer prime. The way Magic controlled games once he posted up a lot and improved his outside shot was probably greater than Kobe ever did. Kobe was obviously a better scorer and defender, and people overlook his playmaking at times, while obviously not on Magic's level, he was still very good. Defense isn't as much of an issue when comparing their absolute best years because in a lot of Kobe's best seasons, he didn't consistently put in as much effort at that end, but I'd still call it an advantage.

Their primes are kind of difficult to compare directly because Kobe's started in '01 or '03 at the absolute latest and was interrupted by injuries and off the court problems in '04 and '05. I'd probably take '01-'03 Kobe over any pre-'87 version of Magic. While I think Magic's '87-'91 play is worthy of all the praise he receives, I think there's a double standard when it comes to Kobe's "sidekick rings" and Magic's early rings. And I think young Magic is overrated to some degree and lacked the complete skill set to impact a game the same way in the halfcourt. He brought less negatives as well.

I'll go with [B]Magic[/B], but it's closer than a lot of people admit. I look at prime more, but Kobe's longevity definitely gives him a case because I don't think their primes were that far apart.

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]MVP's
Magic: 3
Kobe: 1

Finals MVP's
[B]Magic: 3 ( should have been 4, in 88)[/B]
Kobe: 2[/QUOTE]

Well, if we're talking about how many he should have then the answer is still 3. He got the 1980 finals MVP for game 6, but that ignored how Kareem was so much better and more valuable through the first 5 games and first 3 wins for the Lakers.

MVP's
Magic: 3
Shaq: 1

Finals MVP's
Magic: 3 (should have been 4, in 88)
Shaq: 3

Titles
Magic 5
Shaq 4

Magic has Shaq beat in every category of 'greatness' and yet is anyone going to act like Shaq and Magic aren't at all comparable? Do the other, lesser awards mean nothing? Is 5 extra years of dominant play/all nba teams/all star teams worth nothing?

Personally, I think Magic was the more impactful team player because he magnified his team's strength much more than Kobe did. Kobe, however, was the better individual player[one of greatest scorers ever plus one of the best defenders at SG for his generation..] and he had a longer and more successful career. People that think this isn't close are kidding themselves.

I don't think you can find any offensive players that make more of an impact then passers on the level of Magic. Add the fact that he could score 20 on a nightly basis, and I'll take Magic by a moderate amount. The only reason this would be close is that Magic was a terrible defender. Sometimes that sort of stuff is exaggerated, but in Magic case it's not. He was honestly the worst defender at his position (among starters that is) by the time he was winning MVPs, and when he was younger he was still pretty bad other then the fact he got a lot of steals.
Either way, I'll take [B]Magic[/B]

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]MVP's
Magic: 3
Kobe: 1

Finals MVP's
Magic: 3 ( should have been 4, in 88)
Kobe: 2[/QUOTE]


come on son.....Media MVP's of the 00's:facepalm

Finals MVPS too?...:lol ...like the 00' - 02' Finals was L.A.'s toughest test??..:roll:

just like Magic brought everything it took to win to the Lakers...so did Kobe.




it's a great debate..but media awards holds little weight in this one.

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]vs

All league defensive awards
Magic: [B]0[/B]
Kobe: 11

All league awards

Magic: 10
Kobe: 13

All star awards

Magic: 12 (should be 11)
Kobe: 13 (should be 14)

All Star MVPs

Magic: 2
Kobe: 4

:confusedshrug:

Not sure why people pretend defense isn't 50% of the game[/QUOTE]

Kobe Bryant

Regular Season (career)
25.3ppg 5.3reb 4.7ast 1.5stl 0.5blk 2.9t/o 45.4%fg 33.9%3pt 83.7%ft

Playoffs (career)
25.4ppg 5.1reb 4.8ast 1.4stl 0.7blk 2.9t/o 44.8%fg 33.5%3pt 81.5%ft

Finals (each year)
2000*: 15.6ppg 4.6reb 4.2ast 1.0stl 1.4blk 36.7%fg 20.0%3pt 90.9%ft
2001: 24.6ppg 7.8reb 5.8ast 1.4stl 1.4blk 41.5%fg 33.3%3pt 84.2%ft
2002: 26.8ppg 5.8reb 5.3ast 1.5stl 0.8blk 51.4%fg 54.5%3pt 80.6%ft
2004: 22.6ppg 2.8reb 4.4ast 1.8stl 0.6blk 38.1%fg 17.4%3pt 92.0%ft
2008: 25.7ppg 4.7reb 5.0ast 2.7stl 0.2blk 40.5%fg 32.1%3pt 79.6%ft
2009: 32.4ppg 5.6reb 7.4ast 1.4stl 1.4blk 43.0%fg 36.0%3pt 84.1%ft
2010: 28.6ppg 8.0reb 3.9ast 2.1stl 0.7blk 40.5%fg 31.9%3pt 88.3%ft

*Was injured during the series, missed game.

Magic Johnson

Regular Season (career)
19.5ppg 7.2reb 11.2ast 1.9stl 0.4blk 3.9t/o 52.0%fg 30.3%3pt 84.8%ft

Playoffs (career)
19.5ppg 7.7reb 12.3ast 1.9stl 0.3blk 50.6%fg 24.1%3pt 83.8%ft

Finals
1980: 21.5ppg 11.2reb 8.7ast 2.7stl 0.3blk 57.3%fg 87.5%ft
1982: 16.2ppg 10.8reb 8.0ast 2.5stl 0.3blk 53.3%fg 84.6%ft
1983: 19.0ppg 7.8reb 12.5ast 1.8stl 0.5blk 40.3%fg 92.9%ft
1984: 18.0ppg 7.7reb 13.6ast 2.0stl 0.9blk 56.0%fg 74.4%ft
1985: 18.3ppg 6.8reb 14.0ast 2.2stl 0.0blk 49.4%fg 50.0%3pt 87.1%ft
1987: 26.2ppg 8.0reb 13.0ast 2.3stl 0.3blk 54.1%fg 50.0%3pt 96.0%ft
1988: 21.1ppg 5.7reb 13.0ast 2.0stl 0.1blk 55.0%fg 33.3%3pt 86.6%ft
1989*: 11.7ppg 3.7reb 8.0ast 1.0stl 46.2%fg 20.0%3pt 90.9%ft
1991: 18.6ppg 8.0reb 12.4ast 1.2stl 43.1%fg 28.6%3pt 95.1%ft

*Was injured during the series, missed game.

Yes i'm really sure All-Star game MVP's are >> League and Finals MVP's, when their playing little to no defense in those exhibition games.

Yes, let's see how much of a game changer on defense Kobe is:

[url]http://asubstituteforwar.com/2011/05/09/kobe-bryant-the-most-overrated-defender-imaginable/[/url]

Now that's not to say Magic comes close to Kobe's defense, but really let's not act like Kobe is some big time game changer on defense, even with all those All-Defense Teams. Yes, he has deserved some, but some of his All-Defense First Team the last a couple of years have been through reputation.

Steals Titles
Magic: 2 (one was with 37 games though)
Kobe: 0 (Top 5, once)

If you want to go by advanced metrics, go right ahead. See how much that "favors" Kobe.

Okay Kblaze, I'm voting for [B]Magic Johnson[/B]. I was thinking about voting for Kobe but since the Kobe trolls are in full force I have decided to just vote for Magic instead. I am decativating my account tomorrow as well and I don't expect Jeff/Steve/Admin to activate my account any time soon so count my vote for Michael Jordan for the #1 ranking.

[QUOTE=AlphaWolf24]come on son.....Media MVP's of the 00's:facepalm

Finals MVPS too?...:lol ...like the 00' - 02' Finals was L.A.'s toughest test??..:roll:

just like Magic brought everything it took to win to the Lakers...so did Kobe.




it's a great debate..but media awards holds little weight in this one.[/QUOTE]

I'm not doubting eithers ability to win. I just think Magic was the better player and leader.

Yeah, that's why just went into the impact. Someone here mentioned All-Star game MVP's and All-Star apperances. Like that really is going to change something...

For stricly Laker fans, #2, 3, and 4 spots on the guard list is damn impressive.

Kobe has the higher career and peak PER. He has the higher WAR.

And lol @ that clown just listing Finals and not entire playoff runs. :oldlol:

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]Kobe Bryant

Regular Season (career)
25.3ppg 5.3reb 4.7ast 1.5stl 0.5blk 2.9t/o 45.4%fg 33.9%3pt 83.7%ft

Playoffs (career)
25.4ppg 5.1reb 4.8ast 1.4stl 0.7blk 2.9t/o 44.8%fg 33.5%3pt 81.5%ft

Finals (each year)
2000*: 15.6ppg 4.6reb 4.2ast 1.0stl 1.4blk 36.7%fg 20.0%3pt 90.9%ft
2001: 24.6ppg 7.8reb 5.8ast 1.4stl 1.4blk 41.5%fg 33.3%3pt 84.2%ft
2002: 26.8ppg 5.8reb 5.3ast 1.5stl 0.8blk 51.4%fg 54.5%3pt 80.6%ft
2004: 22.6ppg 2.8reb 4.4ast 1.8stl 0.6blk 38.1%fg 17.4%3pt 92.0%ft
2008: 25.7ppg 4.7reb 5.0ast 2.7stl 0.2blk 40.5%fg 32.1%3pt 79.6%ft
2009: 32.4ppg 5.6reb 7.4ast 1.4stl 1.4blk 43.0%fg 36.0%3pt 84.1%ft
2010: 28.6ppg 8.0reb 3.9ast 2.1stl 0.7blk 40.5%fg 31.9%3pt 88.3%ft

*Was injured during the series, missed game.

Magic Johnson

Regular Season (career)
19.5ppg 7.2reb 11.2ast 1.9stl 0.4blk 3.9t/o 52.0%fg 30.3%3pt 84.8%ft

Playoffs (career)
19.5ppg 7.7reb 12.3ast 1.9stl 0.3blk 50.6%fg 24.1%3pt 83.8%ft

Finals
1980: 21.5ppg 11.2reb 8.7ast 2.7stl 0.3blk 57.3%fg 87.5%ft
1982: 16.2ppg 10.8reb 8.0ast 2.5stl 0.3blk 53.3%fg 84.6%ft
1983: 19.0ppg 7.8reb 12.5ast 1.8stl 0.5blk 40.3%fg 92.9%ft
1984: 18.0ppg 7.7reb 13.6ast 2.0stl 0.9blk 56.0%fg 74.4%ft
1985: 18.3ppg 6.8reb 14.0ast 2.2stl 0.0blk 49.4%fg 50.0%3pt 87.1%ft
1987: 26.2ppg 8.0reb 13.0ast 2.3stl 0.3blk 54.1%fg 50.0%3pt 96.0%ft
1988: 21.1ppg 5.7reb 13.0ast 2.0stl 0.1blk 55.0%fg 33.3%3pt 86.6%ft
1989*: 11.7ppg 3.7reb 8.0ast 1.0stl 46.2%fg 20.0%3pt 90.9%ft
1991: 18.6ppg 8.0reb 12.4ast 1.2stl 43.1%fg 28.6%3pt 95.1%ft

*Was injured during the series, missed game.

Yes i'm really sure All-Star game MVP's are >> League and Finals MVP's, when their playing little to no defense in those exhibition games.

Yes, let's see how much of a game changer on defense Kobe is:

[url]http://asubstituteforwar.com/2011/05/09/kobe-bryant-the-most-overrated-defender-imaginable/[/url]

Now that's not to say Magic comes close to Kobe's defense[B][SIZE="4"], but really let's not act like Kobe is some big time game changer on defense, even with all those All-Defense Teams. Yes, he has deserved some, but some of his All-Defense First Team the last a couple of years have been through reputation. [/SIZE][/B]

Steals Titles
Magic: 2 (one was with 37 games though)
Kobe: 0 (Top 5, once)

If you want to go by advanced metrics, go right ahead. See how much that "favors" Kobe.[/QUOTE]

Lost all credibility.....

So you gonna discredit Jordan Magic and Bird for all thier awards they didn't deserve....Jordan won all defensive awards when he wasn't even the best defending SG on his team!!!!


Kobe was top shelf defense and guarded the other teams best perimeter scorer....to go along with being the first option in the the quarter and crunchtime

Kobe as a starter and over a decade averages..

[B][SIZE="6"]28.3PPG 6.2REB 5.0AST[/SIZE][/B] 7 NBA Finals and 5 Championships to go along with being a top shelf defender....

and the greatest Laker of alltime....and still going.