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Alright, I graciously accept defeat on the size issue -- I'm still not impressed with Wilt's method of scoring his 100, or the era that he played in (as arrogant as that sounds as a basketball fan)
I don't think Wilts dominance would translate to this era, but that is impossible to prove, so it's just an opinion
[QUOTE=7_cody]A quick google search tells me that there are like 46 seven footers in the NBA today. The list posted earlier had like 8 or 9 I think. So what you're basically saying is that there were 8 or 9 games where he faced a seven footer, most not very talented, but other then that he had a severe size advantage
His numbers are impressive for his era, nothing else, IMO[/QUOTE]
You do realize the league was much smaller then? Do some research man. You're making yourself sound so uninformed.
[QUOTE=7_cody]Alright, I graciously accept defeat on the size issue -- I'm still not impressed with Wilt's method of scoring his 100, or the era that he played in (as arrogant as that sounds as a basketball fan)
I don't think Wilts dominance would translate to this era, but that is impossible to prove, so it's just an opinion[/QUOTE]
Nobody is saying Wilt would average 50ppg today or be able to score 100 points in a game if he played today.
But that doesn't deny the fact that averaging 50ppg - even back in 1961-62 - was ****ing impressive.
I find it baffling why you are trying to piss all over the history of a sport that you clearly love. Care to explain your reasons for doing so?
[QUOTE=WillC]Nobody is saying Wilt would average 50ppg today or be able to score 100 points in a game if he played today.
But that doesn't deny the fact that averaging 50ppg - even back in 1961-62 - was ****ing impressive.
I find it baffling why you are trying to piss all over the history of a sport that you clearly love. Care to explain your reasons for doing so?[/QUOTE]
I'm not very knowledgeable on the NBA before the 1980s, well I know quite a bit but I'm not expert is what I want to say
From what I've seen watching classic games probably pre 1970s or so (which is how I like to judge, by watching, not reading stats) - the game was in its early stages of evolution and none of it was impressive
It doesn't make basketball less amazing, every sport started somewhere.
[QUOTE=7_cody]I'm not very knowledgeable on the NBA before the 1980s, well I know quite a bit but I'm not expert is what I want to say
From what I've seen watching classic games probably pre 1970s or so (which is how I like to judge, by watching, not reading stats) - the game was in its early stages of evolution and none of it was impressive
It doesn't make basketball less amazing, every sport started somewhere.[/QUOTE]
Without meaning to sound condescending, perhaps you ought to learn a bit more about basketball pre-1970s before criticising it?
Basketball wasn't impressive pre-1970? That's an incredibly naive and insulting comment.
[I]Hank Luisetti's use of the one-handed shot wasn't impressive in the 1930s?
Nat Holman's Original Celtics invention of the pivot play wasn't impressive?
The Harlem Renaissance's intricate team play wasn't impressive?
Oscar Robertson's all-around dominance in college and the pros wasn't impressive?
The Boston Celtic's 11 championships weren't impressive?[/I]
I think you need to learn a bit more before commenting in the future.
[QUOTE=7_cody]A quick google search tells me that there are like 46 seven footers in the NBA today. The list posted earlier had like 8 or 9 I think. So what you're basically saying is that there were 8 or 9 games where he faced a seven footer, most not very talented, but other then that he had a severe size advantage
His numbers are impressive for his era, nothing else, IMO[/QUOTE]
A quick google search isn't research - research that would tell you there [I]aren't[/I] 46 7 footers in the NBA today at all. Because NBA list heights today are ridiculously exaggerated.
Shaq would do the same in that era, perhaps more pts.
[QUOTE=swi7ch]Shaq would do the same in that era, perhaps more pts.[/QUOTE]
That's correct.
But he wasn't even alive then, so your point is a moot one.
[QUOTE=7_cody]From what I've seen watching classic games probably pre 1970s or so (which is how I like to judge, by watching, not reading stats) - the game was in its early stages of evolution and none of it was impressive[/QUOTE]
For the most part, the game is the same now as it was then, with a few differences in what was considered kosher and what wasn't.
The biggest leap in the game occurred post Mikan with the introduction of the shot clock. There's never been a bigger leap from one era to the other since then.
Back then, a team like the Globetrotters could dribble out the game clock and steal a victory from the Lakers.
FROM NBA.com:
[I]"Two momentous events in NBA history occurred prior to the 1954-55 season. George Mikan, who had been the standard-bearer as the league gained a foothold in the public consciousness, announced his retirement. But if anything could overshadow the departure of the game's greatest player, it was the adoption of the 24-second clock and an accompanying limit on the number of fouls a team could commit in a quarter. Syracuse owner Danny Biasone and his GM, Leo Ferris, came up with the shot clock idea, which along with the team foul limit, created the pro basketball game we know today.
The shot clock is born.
Scoring shot up immediately, from 79.5 ppg to 93.1. While team scoring soared, individual point totals did not, with the increased points seeming to come from across the team."[/I]
[QUOTE=7_cody]A quick google search tells me that there are like 46 seven footers in the NBA today. The list posted earlier had like 8 or 9 I think. So what you're basically saying is that there were 8 or 9 games where he faced a seven footer, most not very talented, but other then that he had a severe size advantage
His numbers are impressive for his era, nothing else, IMO[/QUOTE]
Outside of Wilt, nobody was blocking Kareem's hook with regularity. That just didn't happen. Not Sampson, not Hakeem, not Ewing, not Bol, not Eaton. So everybody was 6'6 to Kareem. So why didn't he score 50ppg. Yao had a much bigger height advantage and he could shoot. Shaq had a bigger advantage than Wilt because he used his weight to dominate and nobody had his size AND the refs worked with him on his advantages. Shaq was also quicker, among the longest, stronger and faster than all the other centers (wasn't as fast D Rob tho). Height doesn't have as much to do with scoring as you think. How many 7 foot centers ever averaged over 30ppg. I can only think of Kareem and Wilt. The more impressive center scorers were 6/10 ish Amare, Moses, McAdoo, Hakeem and they did so with impressive movement and finess more so than anything. Shaq is unique in the power game aspect.
Who was the best defender on Shaq? For me it was 6'8 Rodman. I not feeling the height argument. AI amazingly, doesn't even get respect from most of you guys claiming that the 60's was small, and AI isn't 6 ft tall and scored primarily from 15 feet and in, so height isn't that crazy of factor for most of yall.
[QUOTE=Pointguard]Outside of Wilt, nobody was blocking Kareem's hook with regularity. That just didn't happen. Not Sampson, not Hakeem, not Ewing, not Bol, not Eaton. So everybody was 6'6 to Kareem. So why didn't he score 50ppg. Yao had a much bigger height advantage and he could shoot. Shaq had a bigger advantage than Wilt because he used his weight dominate and nobody had his size AND the refs worked with him on his advantages. Shaq was also quicker, among the longest, stronger and faster than all the other centers (wasn't as fast D Rob tho). Height doesn't have as much to do with scoring as you think. How many 7 foot centers ever averaged over 30ppg. I can only think of Kareem and Wilt. The more impressive center scorers were 6/10 ish Amare, Moses, McAdoo, Hakeem and they did so with impressive movement and finess more so than anything. Shaq is unique in the power game aspect.
Who was the best defender on Shaq? For me it was 6'8 Rodman. I not feeling the height argument. AI amazingly, doesn't even get respect from most of you guys claiming that the 60's was small, and AI isn't 6 ft tall and scored primarily from 15 feet and in, so height crazy of factor for most of yall.[/QUOTE]
Excellent post full of good examples. Why can't more ISH members make intelligent well-researched posts like this?
[quote=WillC]That's correct.
But he wasn't even alive then, so your point is a moot one.[/quote]
I don't care, as long as I'm right. :rockon:
Also, imagine how much McGee would dominate that era. :eek:
Regardless of what a lot of NBA revisionists would like to say there's no way Wilt would average close to that in today's game.
Take into consideration:
- # of teams in the league at that point was a 1/3rd of what it is now, ABA also existed to take away talent from the NBA
- # of playoff games needed to win a championship was much lower as well (factoring in championships)
-# of possessions per game and pace was MUCH higher during the 60s/70s. There's a great possessions/drating chart that's been floating around that shows that the pace was the highest in the 60s, 70s and 80s, lowest in the late 90s and 00s.
- Average height/wingspan of your average player was much smaller, also mentioned earlier the talent pool was diluted due to ABA sapping talent away from the league. Hell even the Harlem Globetrotters took Wilt before Philly was able to secure him.
[QUOTE=BlueandGold]Regardless of what a lot of revisionists would like to say there's no way Wilt would average close to that in today's game.
Take into consideration:
- # of teams in the league at that point was a 1/3rd of what it is now, ABA also existed to take away talent from the NBA
- # of playoff games needed to win a championship was much lower as well (factoring in championships)
-# of possessions per game and pace was MUCH higher during the 60s/70s. There's a great possessions/drating chart that's been floating around that shows that the pace was the highest in the 60s, 70s and 80s, lowest in the late 90s and 00s.
- [B]Average height/wingspan of your average player was much smaller[/B], also mentioned earlier the talent pool was diluted due to ABA sapping talent away from the league[/QUOTE]
I research player barefoot height / wingspans that predate draftexpress and I can tell you that's bullshit right off the bat. Sounds like your other reasonings are simply making up excuses for your own fav players when anyone could easily cherry pick reasons why their own era is "weak". Plus, your accusing people of saying things that have never been said trying to make the opposition look stupid with lies. Find me one quote of anyone on ISH saying Wilt would average 50 today. I'll wait.