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[QUOTE=LA Lakers]Ive never had ahoops discussion in real life where people use "inflated stats" and Larry Bird in the same sentence. I guess it's an internet thing.[/QUOTE]
We need to use pace to compare both of their stats because the game was different back then. So we need to adjust there stats to properly compare both. And no, I am not disrespecting larry legend.
Extremely close comparison. The answer is LeBron James' '12-'14.
[QUOTE]One of them was playing in the goat east. The other face no real competition until the finals.
I go with Bird.[/QUOTE]
:oldlol: . Ya, goat east. '84 Celtics played against 35 win Washington in the first round, 47 win New York in Conference Semi-Finals (taken to 7 games), and 50 win Milwaukee in the Conference Finals.
'86 Celtics played against [B]30 win[/B] Chicago in the first round, and played a 51 win Houston team in the Finals.
The Heat had a tougher overall run.
LBJ
Lebron is stronger and can jump about 2 times higher then bird. yet bird has way more rebounds. Lebron plays point guard alot and has the ball alot more then bird yet the assist stat is tight.
As for the FG% james dunks ALOT more and bird shoots from all over the show so Im gonna say bird was better.
I know its getting old but bird stuck with his original team......... just saying:rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Quickening]If you take account the different pace 30 years ago, Lebrons stats are comfortably better, you're looking at adding 10 percent to everyone one of them.[/QUOTE]
Basically.. League wide pace was at 102 from 1984-1986, while at 92 from 2012-2014.. And Heat were always pretty low, while the Celtics averaged even more than 102...
And then the defense gives Bron the edge.
To add perspective to Bird's rebounding: Celtic players used to get out of the way and let him take the rebound so he could start the fast break or throw a pass... Great qualities, but has nothing to do with his rebounding if we're honest.
[QUOTE=LA Lakers]When you guys say "pace" what do you mean exactly? Are you saying they played faster or slower in the 80's? And how does this validate as to who had the better run? I still can't believe Birds rebounding numbers. Someone should check if he really averaged 10 for three straight seasons, including playoffs.[/QUOTE]
That whole post is so :biggums: :biggums: :biggums:
You didn't know Bird averaged 10 rebounds? How about you check? You think we're guessing here? This is 2014
Just sounds like a 12 y/o visting a message board..
[QUOTE=LA Lakers]Word. [B]History being rewritten.[/B] But the good thing is is that no one online can take away Birds game. He actually played at one time. So everyone can try, but he'll still have his damn legacy.[/QUOTE]
You didn't even know what the pace argument was for... stop acting like some historian.
[QUOTE=Harison]So much disrespect for Bird in this thread, Bird >>> Lebron, and its not as close as simple box stats would suggest.[/QUOTE]
:applause:
I love how these clueless morons cite "pace" without realizing that most stats DO NOT scale linearly with pace, and also that Bird was FAR less ball dominant than Lebron, and that Celtics team in general was a very equal opportunity offense. These idiots - weaned on Lebron basketball for the last 7 years - just picture plugging him into those Celtics and dominating the ball like he does and has in the modern NBA, and hence his stats rising accordingly. Doesn't work like that. First off, Lebron would never be ALLOWED to play the way he has back then, and secondly the team's performance would suffer dramatically if he did.
Bird > Lebron. I wouldn't even think twice about taking prime Bird on my team over prime Lebron, both in the RS and especially the postseason.
EDIT: Lebron probably averages 26-29 pts/7-8 reb/6-7 ast on that Celtics team (Bird was a way better reboundr than Lebron - don't kid yourself). Roughly what Bird did. But Bird doesn't need to dominate the ball like Lebron to do it, hence is a better player. I also trust him mentally way more than Lebron.
How inflated are Bird's numbers, really? There's a bit more of a difference in terms of assists, but it's virtually nonexistent in terms of available rebounds per game, which is why Bird has higher percentages there even in light of the faster pace. There were fewer rebounds than you might expect because players were largely better shooters on average in Bird's era. You'd also need to adjust for everybody on his team which means he's probably losing mere decimal points on his averages at the most.
TRB League Averages
1984: 43.0, 2012: 42.2
1985: 43.5, 2013: 42.1
1986: 43.6, 2014: 42.7
AST League Averages
1984: 26.2, 2012: 21.0
1985: 26.0, 2013: 22.1
1986: 26.0, 2014: 22.0
I'm also not sure why people automatically assume the No. 1 option of an offense would be the one to lose opportunities? It isn't as if Bird was hoisting up 30+ shots per game in order to put up his numbers. It's far more likely he's eating the same whether the pace is 102 or 92. In the most simplistic of arguments - and in counter to "higher pace, inflated stats" - one could just as easily turn around and say Lebron's ball dominance and usage rate makes his numbers inflated, particularly dimes.
[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater] To add perspective to Bird's rebounding: Celtic players used to get out of the way and let him take the rebound so he could start the fast break or throw a pass... Great qualities, but has nothing to do with his rebounding if we're honest.[/QUOTE]
Not necessarily untrue. Along with Bron, he's the greatest passing forward to ever play the game although their particular greatest strengths and the avenues through which they make their cases for that are different and so are their play styles. Also hardly convenient when there are opposing players on the floor fighting for the same rebounds. You'd rather secure possession of the ball than worry about Larry swooping in to get the board. Bird had a keen sense of anticipation and frequently got good positioning as well.
Bird in the second half of '86 was toying with the league.
I'd take Bird but like plenty of others have said you can't go wrong with either one.
It amazes me how quickly (or conveniently) the Lebron-bashers overlook his 2012-2013 season. From start-to-finish, he was miles better than any player in the league, and he carried the Heat to a 66-16 record, which included 27 wins in a row at one point. And his 2011-2012 post-season was one of the greatest ever, as well.
[QUOTE=Shep]Extremely close comparison. The answer is LeBron James' '12-'14.
:oldlol: . Ya, goat east. '84 Celtics played against 35 win Washington in the first round, 47 win New York in Conference Semi-Finals (taken to 7 games), and 50 win Milwaukee in the Conference Finals.
'86 Celtics played against [B]30 win[/B] Chicago in the first round, and played a 51 win Houston team in the Finals.
The Heat had a tougher overall run.[/QUOTE]
They had the best regular season record in '84, so of course they played the bottom seed. Not really sure of the point your trying to make here. The reference to the "GOAT East" was based on the conference as a whole, for the whole season.
That "30 win" Bulls team played most of the '86 season without a certain superstar in the lineup - they were quite a different team in the playoffs.
But I bet you already knew that.
[QUOTE=Genaro]One of them was playing in the goat east. The other face no real competition until the finals.
I go with Bird.[/QUOTE]
This guy doesn't know shit:lol