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[QUOTE=Papaya Petee]No, and Jordan couldn't do it either, he only did it once for a short period of time.
Shut up already[/QUOTE]
Literally word for word, this is the best answer I've ever seen in any thread. It covers every base.
Could Pippen? No
Could Jordan? No
Jordan did once? No he didn't; sample size too small
Shut up already
Love it.
[QUOTE=3ball]Pippen couldn't break guys down off the dribble - to have an elite handle, a player must be able to break guys down off the dribble like isiah thomas, tim hardaway, Wade or Jordan.. or guys like grant hill or michael ray richardson.
[B]pippen didnt have elite handle like these guys.. i would say Pip's handle was above-average for a guard at best - but nowhere near elite - you need breakdown ability for that[/B].
[B]Other than the 1998 ECF when pippen guarded the slowest pg of all time (mark jackson), when did pippen ever guard a smaller pg?.. MJ did it all the time, but Pippen never did.[/B]
Pippen almost always guarded the other team's SF... It was MJ who guarded the other teams PG or SG, whoever was better.. MJ was the quicker player and he was a SG, so guarding PG's was far more feasible for him than Pippen.[/QUOTE]
Agree that Pippen didn't have an elite handle, which is why he couldn't average 11 APG, short of gunning for assists. He was a little too rigid in his motions, for a PG, to really "jitter-bug" around and wreak havoc. What he would do, as a floor general, would be to set up the offense, and use his superior height and length to look over the D and make other passes that traditionally sized PGs could not make. Still wouldn't average 11 APG though. As a full-time PG I'd see Pippen doing more like 20/6/9 with elite D.
As for the guarding aspect... :biggums: John. Stockton.
[QUOTE=Papaya Petee]Hey guys! 1 playoff series and a 24 game sample means Jordan was capable of 11 APG for full seasons! Could of been an all time great PG!
By that logic Westbrook is capable of averaging a triple double for a season.
Kobe could of averaged 40+ PPG in a season.
Etc. Etc.
:wtf:[/QUOTE]
Bro, you cant be the qb and receiver at the same time so just because jordan prefers to be the scorer doesnt mean he cant be a pg.
Jordan isn't a top 5 passer at his position, let alone better than Pippen.
Scottie at age 38 was made point of the struggling Blazers and the team suddenly went 30-8 with him doing it. Being a point guard is not just stacking assists. Scottie was a great leader....a great teammate...he knew the best position to put his guys...he knew how to keep everyone happy...he could set any tempo...he knew when to score. Pat Riley was talking about him dominating games that year when hed have like 12/7. I remember because we had topics on if Pippen was the best point in the West....at 38.
He straight up became an every night point guard at 38 and made his team better overnight.
Who gives a shit how many assists he averaged doing it? Are you playing to win or accumulate stats? Even all time great scorers known previously as ballhogs like Mike and Wilt proved they could just decide to pass up shots and make teammates shoot to stack assists. Wilt led the NBA. Doesn't mean hes a better point guard than Lenny Wilkens.
It means he averaged a bunch of assists for a while.
They aren't the same thing.
Scottie wouldn't average 11 assists because he wouldn't give a shit. He would just try to put people in the best position to have success.
Its been shown time and time again in the NBA that you can bullshit your way to assists that don't help your team.
That isn't what Pippen would attempt to do. But he would be a better team leader and runner of an offense than a lot of people getting more assists.
Marbury can average 9-10 assists. Id take Pippen as my point 100% of the time.
^ Would Pippen have made a great PG from early in his career, or was his stint at PG on the TB successful due to a combination of the right team and his huge amount of experience?
And it makes you wonder how we would regard Pippen if that team had won a title.
Correction on my Riley comment. He had a big game but only 4 assists:
Against the Magic, he collected 25 points, 17 rebounds
one shy of his career high seven assists and no
turnovers in 32 minutes.
Against the Heat on Wednesday, the ageless warrior
contributed 26 points on 9-of-14 shooting, six rebounds,
four assists and five steals in 34 minutes.
'Scottie absolutely dominated that game,' Riley
marveled. 'He did everything he had to do to get his
team over the top.'
At 6-8, Pippen is bigger than just about everybody he
matches up with at point guard. He has been effective
posting up and scoring or drawing the double-team and
finding the open man. Occasionally he gets burned
defensively by a quicker foe, but the Blazers have almost
always gotten the better of the matchup, and his defense
help and court leadership is invaluable.
Pippen was one of those players who simply generated good chemistry. I'd take that over any number from my point guard.
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]Scottie at age 38 was made point of the struggling Blazers and the team suddenly went 30-8 with him doing it. Being a point guard is not just stacking assists. Scottie was a great leader....a great teammate...he knew the best position to put his guys...he knew how to keep everyone happy...he could set any tempo...he knew when to score. Pat Riley was talking about him dominating games that year when hed have like 12/7. I remember because we had topics on if Pippen was the best point in the West....at 38.
He straight up became an every night point guard at 38 and made his team better overnight.
Who gives a shit how many assists he averaged doing it? Are you playing to win or accumulate stats? Even all time great scorers known previously as ballhogs like Mike and Wilt proved they could just decide to pass up shots and make teammates shoot to stack assists. Wilt led the NBA. Doesn't mean hes a better point guard than Lenny Wilkens.
It means he averaged a bunch of assists for a while.
They aren't the same thing.
Scottie wouldn't average 11 assists because he wouldn't give a shit. He would just try to put people in the best position to have success.
Its been shown time and time again in the NBA that you can bullshit your way to assists that don't help your team.
That isn't what Pippen would attempt to do. But he would be a better team leader and runner of an offense than a lot of people getting more assists.
Marbury can average 9-10 assists. Id take Pippen as my point 100% of the time.[/QUOTE]
don't know how many people really understand your point, but good effort. :applause:
[QUOTE=Marchesk]^ Would Pippen have made a great PG from early in his career, or was his stint at PG on the TB successful due to a combination of the right team and his huge amount of experience?
And it makes you wonder how we would regard Pippen if that team had won a title.[/QUOTE]
Agreed - Pippen's wasn't asked to do anything on the Blazers other than be a steady player that didn't screw anything up.
He wasn't asked to beat his man off the dribble and get in the lane to create.. He just stood at the top of the key and swung the ball from one side to the other - he was super-old and averaged 11 ppg and 5 apg as a Blazer - but yeah, to some people, that means he would've been an elite PG in his prime like MJ was.
The funny thing is that even in his prime, Pippen couldn't break guys down off the dribble in the halfcourt or create his shot that well - for the most part, the lane had to already be kind of open or the defense had to be shifting and produce a semi-open lane for him to drive..
.
[IMG]http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/9-10-2015/6yNmoX.gif[/IMG]
It's funny how you guys seek out quotes from players and coaches who say nice things about Scottie.
Scottie is the only guy who requires that - we don't need quotes for Barkley, Malone, Stockton, McHale, Wade, David Robinson, Clyde Drexler, you name it...
But for some reason, the quotes come out when we start talking about Pippen.. Could it be because his offense was literally anemic on many occasion and he couldn't create his own shot?... Yup... That has a super-ton to do with it.
[QUOTE=swagga]don't know how many people really understand your point, but good effort. :applause:[/QUOTE]
Ironic coming from a bran stan. Lol
No, especially not in the triangle. Not many players can. As stated throughout the thread, MJ couldn't either. :coleman:
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855] Being a point guard is not just stacking assists. Scottie was a great leader....a great teammate...he knew the best position to put his guys...he knew how to keep everyone happy...he could set any tempo...he knew when to score...
Who gives a shit how many assists he averaged doing it? Are you playing to win or accumulate stats? [/QUOTE]
^This^
Also I'll allow Pippen's teammates to confirm what Kblaze just said:
[I]Scottie was not only a great player, but a great teammate as well
Jordan averaged 3.5 assists a game from 1996-1998 :lol
Shaq-esque
[QUOTE=3ball][IMG]http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/9-10-2015/6yNmoX.gif[/IMG]
It's funny how you guys seek out quotes from players and coaches who say nice things about Scottie.
Scottie is the only guy who requires that - we don't need quotes for Barkley, Malone, Stockton, McHale, Wade, David Robinson, Clyde Drexler, you name it...
But for some reason, the quotes come out when we start talking about Pippen.. [/QUOTE]
You use quotes all the time in an effort to justify your point.
[QUOTE]Could it be because his offense was literally anemic on many occasion and he couldn't create his own shot?... Yup... That has a super-ton to do with it.[/QUOTE]
The example you use is horrible. Pippen tried to isolate his man and Kukoc wouldn't leave that area which forced him into taking a desperation shot.