MJ is the most double-teamed player of all time, besides Wilt

Wilt? Lol.

Where`s Shaq?

Fan boy thread like kernnetthgriffins's.

Some other guys that might be up there (all are probably top 10 in double teams you'd think):

Moses - Terrific scorer and rebounder but not the most willing passer at C.

Barkley - He on the other hand was a great passer but was finishing at the rim at Shaq/MJ levels.

Hakeem - After Sampson was traded, and without Lucas/Lloyd/Wiggins, he was doubled a ton.

[QUOTE=NZStreetBaller]You cant judge most double teamed player over an entire career by a 9 minute stretch..... [/QUOTE]
Again, point me to ONE 5 MINUTE STRETCH - it doesn't even have to be 9 minutes - where Kobe, Shaq or ANYONE is doubled-teamed every single time they catch the ball.. I'll wait

otherwise, take this L

Of course not. Illegal defense was a thing. Wtf you talking about Bruce? :oldlol:

Btw, doubles happened to Shaq literally all the time vs most teams.

[QUOTE=Horatio33]Shaquille O'Neal[/QUOTE]

Came to post this. But as far as perimeter players go it's easily MJ.

Probably the most doubled perimeter player ever. But big men were easily more doubled. Not even a comparison.

[QUOTE=andgar923]Not sure if MJ is THE most doubled player ever, but he's certainly the most doubled perimeter player ever hands down.

Only reason I hesitate stating he's the most double teamed player in general, is because it's easier to collapse defenders in the paint. Specially when the paint was more crowded.

And as already mentioned, MJ's style made it harder to double more than a big camping in the paint since he moved around often, passed and cut efficiently, and was simply too fast.

But when it comes to perimeter players, MJ by a good margin.[/QUOTE]

OP said MJ was the most doubled player not named Wilt. Perimeter for sure.

[QUOTE=3ball]EVERYONE IS BLINDLY SAYING THAT BIG MEN GET DOUBLED MORE, BUT SHOW ME WHERE YOU'VE SEEN A BIG MAN GET DOUBLED FOR 9 MINUTES EVERY TIME THEY CAUGHT THE BALL LIKE I SHOWED IN THE OP.

SHAQ GOT TONS OF SINGLE-COVERAGE, WHICH IS WHY HE AVERAGED 40 PPG IN VARIOUS PLAYOFFS SERIES - TEAMS HAD TO PICK THEIR POISON WITH THE LAKERS - DOUBLE SHAQ AND LET FISHER, FOX, HORRY GO CRAZY WITH THREES, OR PLAY HIM STRAIGHT UP... TEAMS OFTEN OPTED TO PLAY SHAQ STRAIGHT-UP AND HE WAS VIRTUALLY [U]NEVER[/U] DOUBLED EVERY SINGLE POSSESSION LIKE MJ... EVER... THE JORDAN RULES BASICALLY MEANT "[I]DOUBLE TEAM HIM EVERY TIME HE CATCHES IT[/I]"... NO BIG MAN EVER FACED THIS TYPE OF EVERY-SINGLE-POSSESSION FREQUENCY EXCEPT WILT.[/QUOTE]
You are [COLOR="Black"]f[/COLOR]ucking retarded. Seek help, kid.

[QUOTE=plowking]

Crock of shit. :oldlol:

The best Lebron is just as good as best Jordan.

The 5 years stretch of 09-13 Bron is just as good as Jordan's 89-93 stretch.

28/8/7 on 52% shooting vs 32/7/6 on 52% shooting.

Bron with a 30.4 PER during that time and 61% TS...
MJ with a 30.3 PER during that time and a 59% TS...

You acting as if he wouldn't be either the best or second best player in the league. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
[B]Playoffs Per 100 Possession:[/B]

[url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1989-1993-sum:playoffs_per_poss][I]JORDAN 89'-93'[/I][/url]: 44.2 pts.. 8.6 reb... [I][COLOR="red"]8.8 ast[/COLOR][/I].. 3.0 stl.. 50.3 fg.. 58.1 ts.. 120 ORtg.. 30.0 PER
[url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html#2009-2013-sum:playoffs_per_poss][I]LEBRON 09'-13'[/I][/url]: 36.5 pts. 11.5 reb.. [I][COLOR="red"]8.3 ast[/COLOR][/I].. 2.3 stl.. 49.3 fg.. 58.7 ts.. 118 ORtg.. 29.1 PER


[B]Per Game in Finals:[/B]

[I]MJ 91'-93'[/I]: 36.3 ppg.. 6.6 rpg.. 7.9 apg.. 2.0 spg.. 0.76.. bpg.. 52.6 fg.. 40.7 3 pt
[I]LEBRON 11'-13'[/I]: 24.7 ppg..

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hScvvOtBOi4&t=1m25s[/url]

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]Came to post this. But as far as perimeter players go it's easily MJ.[/QUOTE]
How could teams double Shaq more than MJ, when teams had to worry about Kobe and all the shooters (fisher, fox, horry)??.. Teams had to pick their poison against the Lakers - this is a fact, whereas opponents could just load up on MJ.

Due to Kobe and all the shooters, teams COULDN'T double-team Shaq every single possession - but they could against MJ, because MJ didn't have Kobe or a bunch of 3-point shooters.

Again, no one can show me a stretch where Shaq is double-teamed virtually every time he catches the ball - I've checked - such instances don't exist.. :confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=3ball]You're the one spouting a lie - teams COULDN'T double team Shaq every possession like teams could do MJ, because [I][COLOR="Navy"]teams had to pick their poison with the Lakers[/COLOR][/I]: double Shaq and make it easier for Kobe, while Fisher, Horry and Fox go crazy with threes, or play him straight up.. Otoh, opponents didn't have to pick their poison against the Bulls - they could just load up on MJ.

Teams opted to play Shaq straight up a lot - he virtually NEVER got doubled every single possession like MJ.. Ever.. Teams couldn't take that risk with Kobe on that team and all the shooters.. Otoh, the "Jordan Rules" meant "[I]double-team MJ every time he catches it[/I]" - no big man ever faced this type of every-single-possession frequency of double-teaming, except Wilt.

Everyone is blindly saying that big men get doubled more, but no one can show me where a big man got doubled for 9 minutes straight every time they caught the ball like I showed in the OP.[/QUOTE]
Seek help, dude. Seriously. You have a mental condition which needs to be addressed.

[QUOTE=PHILA][url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hScvvOtBOi4&t=1m25s[/url][/QUOTE]
You only posted a 4 minute stretch, where Shaq was doubled a total of 4 times and wasn't doubled at the [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hScvvOtBOi4&t=4m07s]4:07[/url] mark, the [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hScvvOtBOi4&t=4m53s]4:53[/url] mark, or the [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hScvvOtBOi4&t=8m05s]8:05[/url] mark.

It's amazing how people post something for LESSER than what I posted, and then act like what they posted is meaningful - the OP showed a 9 minute stretch where MJ was doubled every time he caught the ball.. And you come back with a 4 minute stretch where Shaq is doubled only 4 times and not every time he had the ball.

Btw, your 1992 Jordan shot chart is inaccurate because it drastically overstates the number of isolations - you counted [I]every single[/I] drive he made as an isolation, even though many of his catch-and-go drives and other drives aren't isolations - [I]like, you had 1 category for his drives: isolations[/I].. That's a little lazy, just like you posting a clip of Shaq NOT getting doubled every time and for only 4 minutes.

[quote]Btw, your 1992 Jordan shot chart is inaccurate because it drastically overstates the number of isolations - you counted [I]every single[/I] drive he made as an isolation, even though a lot of his catch-and-go drives and other drives aren't isolations.. That's a little lazy, just like your posting of Shaq NOT getting doubled every single time and for only 4 minutes.[/quote]
Yes I was aware of that while compiling the data. But it was not as big a discrepancy as you may think. Jordan was certainly the greatest scorer ever on the move, and plays where he caught the ball and immediately went to work did not count as isolations. But the plays where he kept the ball for longer than a couple seconds (usually using a jab step) before shooting or driving against a half court defense was what I recorded as isolation play. However the shot charts and especially the playoff clutch data is accurate. There is no highlight bias at all with the [URL="http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=322375"]clutch data[/URL]. That is his entire playoff career.

Even looking at Jordan only on [B]isolation jump shots[/B], he was still shooting over 53% on only 2.5 attempts per game.