There's a difference between being allowed to hand check, and doing it without hesitation on every play you want. And hand checking by mistake while trying not to, on one individual play, and the ref missing it.
Don't be dumb.
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There's a difference between being allowed to hand check, and doing it without hesitation on every play you want. And hand checking by mistake while trying not to, on one individual play, and the ref missing it.
Don't be dumb.
[QUOTE=Bankaii]You're reading comprehension is shit, he never said that.
I'm pretty sure he was hinting at the fact that handcheckecking has become drastically overrated because talented offensive players aren't fazed by it.
It's more of an annoyance than an actual good defensive scheme to stop someone from scoring.[/QUOTE]
if you're "pretty sure", meaning you aren't 100% certain, why would my comprehension be "shit", you dumb ape?
and no, the abolition of handchecking plus a number of physicality aspects have made perimeter scoring FAR easier. nobody that understands the game would suggest otherwise.
[QUOTE=mehyaM24]if you're "pretty sure", meaning you aren't 100% certain, why would my comprehension be "shit", you dumb ape?
and no, the abolition of handchecking plus a number of physicality aspects have made perimeter scoring FAR easier. nobody that understands the game would suggest otherwise.[/QUOTE]
Your overrating hand-checking. It still happens every game. Not a big deal.
3ball,
Re-read my sentence. I said handchecking was "more" about putting your arms on a player who has his back turned to you and didn't state it was exclusively limited to this situation. But it's primarily about the scenario I described: being able to slow down the ball handler in the perimeter with that extended arm and slow down and sometimes funnel him to the direction you want him to go. What also doesn't get mentioned is that guys were able to just body up guys all the way down the court and not get called for a foul as long as you weren't being overly aggressive. That's something you can't do today as much.
But in the TT stance, if you are close enough to extend your arm on the offensive player and touch his waist, you are way too close and your man will drive by you. That's bad D in that scenario unless if you feel confident he can't get by you. Sure, given the different rules back then, you could be more physical with guys driving. But the real benefit of hanchecking does lie in the perimeter and how you are able to slow down/control that offensive player.
But of course I have to stress that the league allowed so much more physicality back then and that clearly benefits the defender. And some of the stuff you are talking about like being alowed to be more physical for guys driving is testamemt to this fact. But that lies more in the genral allowance of physicality and not hand checking specifically.
[QUOTE=ClipperRevival]
[B]But in the TT stance, if you are close enough to extend your arm on the offensive player and touch his waist, you are way too close and your man will drive by you. That's bad D in that scenario [/B]
[/QUOTE]
This is flatly false and makes no sense - when a defender is close enough to extend his arm and touch the ballhandler's waist, HE'S HAND-CHECKING...
Hand-checking makes it [I]harder[/I] for the ballhandler to get by the defender, not easier.
you don't know what you're talking about and are just making stuff up
you sound like one of those ignorant, passive-aggressive, beta posters like sdot thadon or flpiii
[QUOTE=3ball]This is flatly false and makes no sense - when a defender is close enough to extend his arm and touch the ballhandler's waist, HE'S HAND-CHECKING...
Hand-checking makes it [I]harder[/I] for the ballhandler to get by the defender, not easier.
you don't know what you're talking about and are just making stuff up
you sound like one of those ignorant, passive-aggressive, beta posters like sdot thadon or flpiii[/QUOTE]
You do know the difference between the TT position and driving right? Like i said, if your man is in the TT position and you are close enough to him where your extended arm can touch his waist, that is very close. Too close for comfort in most situations unless if you fear his outside shot or you feel confident in your ability to keep him in front of you. In most cases, defenders stay further away when up against the TT stance because you need to defend the drive also.
Like i said, physicality and hand checking kind of go hand in hand. The line between what is what can be blurred in the quick action of the game. Being physical against the drive for example. If you still don't get what i am saying, i could care less with your narcissist ass. This is really much ado about nothing.
Handchecking is overrated as ****
Literally doesnt affect players at all
[QUOTE=ClipperRevival]
3ball,
[B]I said handchecking was "more" about putting your arms on a player who has his back turned to you[/B] and didn't state it was exclusively limited to this situation.
[/quote]
Doesn't matter - you're dead wrong in saying that hand-checking is "more" about when a player has his back turned to you.
Hand-checking is equally prevalent when ballhandlers are facing and it's MOST prevalent and effective [i]during the act of driving[/I], like the gif below (this is a foul in today's game):
[IMG]https://media.giphy.com/media/TJPk9OncuzZoQ/giphy.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=ClipperRevival]
But in the TT stance, if you are close enough to extend your arm on the offensive player and touch his waist, you are way too close and your man will drive by you.
[/QUOTE]
This is flatly false and makes no sense - when a defender is close enough to extend his arm and touch the ballhandler's waist, HE'S HAND-CHECKING...
Hand-checking makes it harder for the ballhandler to get by the defender, not easier.. :rolleyes:
More importantly - players are taught to be 2-3 feet away since it's close enough to contest a jumper but not too close (bodied up chest-to-chest) where the offensive player can spin off you or do a swim thru/blow-by move.
it's clear that you don't know what you're talking about and are just making stuff up - you sound like one of those ignorant, passive-aggressive, scared posters like sdot thadon or flpiii who are trying to learn about previous eras 20 years after the fact.
[QUOTE=ClipperRevival]
In most cases, defenders stay further away when up against the TT stance because you need to defend the drive also.
[/QUOTE]
This is the opposite of the truth..
The BEST way to defend a TT player is to be within hand-checking distance - any further and you give up easy jumpers like today's game... any closer and the offensive player can spin off you or blow by.
And again, when you're within hand-checking distance - YOU CAN HAND-CHECK!!!... which makes it harder to drive.
it's clear that you don't know what you're talking about and are just making stuff up - you sound like one of those ignorant, passive-aggressive, scared posters like sdot thadon or flpiii who are trying to learn about previous eras 20 years after the fact.
Freaken narcissist. Arguing much ado about nothing. You take words and take them to mean absolutes, not open minded. Like I said man, can you get close up where you can extend your arm and touch a guy's waist off the TT stance? Of course. But you leave yourself in a vulnerable position for the drive. If you fear a guy's shooting, you do that. Or if you feel confidennt in your foot speed. Again, stop confusing the drive with the TT stance. Once a guy drives, that's a different story. Like I said man, much ado about nothing. You are arguing just for the sake of arguing. You should loosen up.
[QUOTE=ClipperRevival]
[B]can you get close up where you can extend your arm and touch a guy's waist off the TT stance?[/b]
[/QUOTE]
^^^^ that's hand-checking.
When a player hand-checks, they aren't more susceptible to the drive - they're less susceptible.
Now if a player BODIES a perimeter ballhandler or TT player, they are susceptible to getting blown by or spun off of... You'd know this if you could ball.
Again, it's clear that you don't know what you're talking about and are just making stuff up - you sound like one of those ignorant, passive-aggressive, scared posters like sdot thadon or flpiii who are trying to learn about previous eras 20 years after the fact.
[QUOTE=3ball]^^^^ that's hand-checking.
When a player hand-checks, they aren't more susceptible to the drive - they're less susceptible.
Now if a player BODIES a perimeter ballhandler or TT player, they are susceptible to getting blown by or spun off of... You'd know this if you could ball.
Again, it's clear that you don't know what you're talking about and are just making stuff up - you sound like one of those ignorant, passive-aggressive, scared posters like sdot thadon or flpiii who are trying to learn about previous eras 20 years after the fact.[/QUOTE]
Well dumbass. If you are able to put your extended arms on a player's waist when he is in a legit TT stance, (as in fully facing you, knees bent, upper body leaning forward where his waist is a good 20-25 inches further behind his head), you are essentially bodying him up. I mean do you even really know a LEGIT TT stance, what it looks like and what it entails? I don't think you do. I didn't say you can't hand check off the TT stance, just that it's an aggressive move. Sometimes the situation calls for it. But stop thinking in absolutes you narcissist. Basketball isn't a rigid game, it's a free flowing game where different situation calls for different things. If you had grasped this concept, we would not be arguing about nothing. But you thinking in absolutes, we end up here.
P.S. I love how you copy and paste that last sentence.
[QUOTE=ClipperRevival]
If you are able to put your extended arms on a player's waist when he is in a legit TT stance, (as in fully facing you, knees bent, upper body leaning forward where his waist is a good 20-25 inches further behind his head), you are essentially bodying him up.
[/quote]
It's pretty ridiculous that I have to describe how the game works to some new fan who has never played and learns the game from books and tv.
But I'm a benevolent guy, so I don't mind helping out the ignorant:
You're forgetting that the defender is ALSO bent over and in a stance - so it cancels out and the defender is NOT bodying the TT player when hand-checking the waist
A man's arm is 3+ feet long.. So if a defender can reach out and touch a TT player, he isn't bodying him.
Of course, if you had ever played, you wouldn't be making such a dumb, easily-disproven argument.
[QUOTE=ClipperRevival]
P.S. I love how you copy and paste that last sentence.
[/QUOTE]
Of course you do - it's true and hits home.. Here - I'll paste the truth again:
it's clear that you don't know what you're talking about and are just making stuff up - you sound like one of those ignorant, passive-aggressive, scared posters like sdot thadon or flpiii who are trying to learn about previous eras 20 years after the fact.
[QUOTE=3ball]It's pretty ridiculous that I have to describe how the game works to some new fan who has never played and learns the game from books and tv.
But I'm a benevolent guy, so I don't mind helping out the ignorant:
A man's arm is 3+ feet long.. So if a defender can reach out and touch a TT player, he isn't bodying him.
Of course, if you had ever played, you wouldn't be making such a dumb, easily-disproven argument.
Of course you do - it's true and hits home.. Here - I'll paste the truth again:
it's clear that you don't know what you're talking about and are just making stuff up - you sound like one of those ignorant, passive-aggressive, scared posters like sdot thadon or flpiii who are trying to learn about previous eras 20 years after the fact.[/QUOTE]
"A man's arm is 3+ feet long." :facepalm :roll:
No wonder you think it's feasible to hand check out of a legit TT stance. You are completely ignorant of the human anatomy.