CP3 is the better player but as far as careers go, he's the third. Kidd had the best career although individually he's the worst.
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CP3 is the better player but as far as careers go, he's the third. Kidd had the best career although individually he's the worst.
I'd probably take Gary Payton. It's either him or Jason Kidd.
I'd give the edge to Payton because of his scoring ability.
From GP himself [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOxgV1Tcw3w&feature=youtu.be&t=1m34s[/url]
Kidd turned around one of the worst organiztions in the league and took them to back to back finals. Prime Kidd is one of the few players in history who could dominate a game without scoring a point.
Gary Payton.
Not mentioning his basketball skills:
Tough, strong, vocal, trash talker
:applause:
Kidd
CP3
Payton
[QUOTE=mehyaM24]at his best, gp lead a team to the finals, was the only player i can think of that legimately shut down jordan (last 3 games of that series) won a dpoy over pippen, dream, rodman, robinson, etc., while still averaging 20 & 7. cp3 and kidd were great, but i think i'll take glove as well.
i don't question his competitive drive, or who he got his numbers against - a huge plus for me.[/QUOTE]
We don't agree on too many things, but you're spot on. Dude was a beast on both ends of the court.
Prime Payton averaged 21/8/5/2 with DPOY level defense. CP3 for his career averages 19/4/10/2 with worse defense than GP.
paul is the most efficient, effective offensive player, but the worst defender of the bunch and the worst intangibles. His pouty, bratty attitude rubs off on teammates.. just makes them softer than they would be if they had kidd or gp leading by tough example. I have it kidd > payton > paul.
[QUOTE=tpols]paul is the most efficient, effective offensive player, but the worst defender of the bunch and the worst intangibles. His pouty, bratty attitude rubs off on teammates.. just makes them softer than they would be if they had kidd or gp leading by tough example. I have it kidd > payton > paul.[/QUOTE]
How is Kidd better than GP?
[QUOTE=aj1987]How is Kidd better than GP?[/QUOTE]
GP is more man to man defense, and individual scoring skill, while kidd is more team defense/rebounding, and less individual scoring skill but a better team player/genius level team IQ, pace control etc. Id rather have that stuff in my PG than what GP has, which seems like a more useful skillset for a combo guard or sg.
[QUOTE=tpols]GP is more man to man defense, and individual scoring skill, while kidd is more team defense/rebounding, and less individual scoring skill but a better team player/genius level team IQ, pace control etc. Id rather have that stuff in my PG than what GP has, which seems like a more useful skillset for a combo guard or sg.[/QUOTE]
GP took his team within 2 games of winning the title against the '96 Bulls. He's an elite team defender as well. Overall defense is definitely GP. Definitely a better rebounder and a playmaker. No question about that, but dude was inefficient AF and couldn't score. His best statistical season, he averaged 24/7/9/2. Those are LeBron numbers. 22/5/8/2 over 7 seasons.
Dude is literally one of the only players to have "shut down" MJ over multiple games in a series.
[QUOTE=aj1987]GP took his team within 2 games of winning the title against the '96 Bulls. He's an elite team defender as well. Overall defense is definitely GP. Definitely a better rebounder and a playmaker. No question about that, but dude was inefficient AF and couldn't score. His best statistical season, he averaged 24/7/9/2. Those are LeBron numbers. 22/5/8/2 over 7 seasons.
Dude is literally one of the only players to have "shut down" MJ over multiple games in a series.[/QUOTE]
I have no issue with someone taking GP, but I'm curious...was Payton better than Nash in your opinion?
[QUOTE=tpols]paul is the most efficient, effective offensive player, but the worst defender of the bunch and the worst intangibles. His pouty, bratty attitude rubs off on teammates.. just makes them softer than they would be if they had kidd or gp leading by tough example. I have it kidd > payton > paul.[/QUOTE]
There is no doubt that Paul's tactics and his time spent whining and crying and gaming the game...rather than just playing the game has been a serious detriment to both his team and himself. Legit could have cost them a chance at the title in 14 because he was too busy trying to game the system.
However, Paul is clearly the most complete player of the group and really doesn't have a weakness when it comes to skillset.
Now, I take your point and agree with it...but it's hard to really get to the bottom of this one because I don't know if Paul's attitude and playoff results are more products of his circumstances rather than a reflection of his true impact/value.
[QUOTE=DMAVS41]I have no issue with someone taking GP, but I'm curious...was Payton better than Nash in your opinion?[/QUOTE]
With PG's, it depends entirely upon the team. If it was just a random team, I'd pick GP. Dude could score, rebound, pass, and defend. Nash could do only two of those at an elite level for PG's. Nash is a fantastic player, but so was GP. His defense is getting significantly undervalued. Nash could put up 20 points and 10 assists, but what's the use if he's giving up 25+ on the other end?
1. Paul
2. Payton
3. Kidd
[QUOTE=aj1987]GP took his team within 2 games of winning the title against the '96 Bulls. He's an elite team defender as well. Overall defense is definitely GP. Definitely a better rebounder and a playmaker. No question about that, but dude was inefficient AF and couldn't score. His best statistical season, he averaged 24/7/9/2. Those are LeBron numbers. 22/5/8/2 over 7 seasons.
[B]Dude is literally[/B] one of the only players to have "shut down" MJ over multiple games in a series.[/QUOTE]
someone just said that here thanks :oldlol:
[URL="http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=183977"]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=183977[/URL]