I think you cannot compare first option rings to 2nd option rings.

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;14749759]I'll take Stockton. Not even close ring or not[/QUOTE]

Why?

[QUOTE=WhiteKyrie;14749764]Why?[/QUOTE]

Efficiency, consistency and durability are more important to me than triple doubles. Only negatives on Stockton were being too unselfish and too loyal to the Jazz.

[QUOTE=ImKobe;14749695]FMVP doesn't necessarily mean you were the best player or the #1 option.

KB '01
Rip Hamilton or Ben Wallace '04
TD '07
KG '08
Steph '15
Davis '20

Didn't win FMVPs but were the best players in those Playoff runs. I'm sure there's more from past eras but these instantly come into mind.[/QUOTE]

I know you didn't put Kobe as the #1 dude in 2001 :facepalm

[QUOTE=ImKobe;14749695]FMVP doesn't necessarily mean you were the best player or the #1 option.

KB '01
Rip Hamilton or Ben Wallace '04
TD '07
KG '08
Steph '15
Davis '20

Didn't win FMVPs but were the best players in those Playoff runs. I'm sure there's more from past eras but these instantly come into mind.[/QUOTE]


:lol

[QUOTE=dankok8;14749743]Kidd's ring with Dallas means absolutely nothing to me in how his career is evaluated. Ditto for say Payton's ring with Miami.[/QUOTE]

Jason Kidd was still putting up the same numbers in Dallas that he was for most of his career. Payton on the other hand was a role player.

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;14749771]Efficiency, consistency and durability are more important to me than triple doubles. Only negatives on Stockton were being too unselfish and too loyal to the Jazz.[/QUOTE]

Stockton is the greatest pure PG in NBA history, he didn't get MVP notice mostly because MVP is narrative driven and those last two Magic MVP's were kinda BS.

And really...when is a PG a first option? PG's should be third or even fourth options in my book

[QUOTE=John8204;14749801]Jason Kidd was still putting up the same numbers in Dallas that he was for most of his career. Payton on the other hand was a role player.



Stockton is the greatest pure PG in NBA history, he didn't get MVP notice mostly because MVP is narrative driven and those last two Magic MVP's were kinda BS.

And really...when is a PG a first option? PG's should be third or even fourth options in my book[/QUOTE]

I would have picked Stockton over MVP Malone if I'd had to choose between the two. What would Stockton have done in the weak east that the Nets played in?

[QUOTE=hold this L;14749778]I know you didn't put Kobe as the #1 dude in 2001 :facepalm[/QUOTE]

You could easily make the argument he was 1b. He was the best player on the floor in the most competitive series, IE 2001 WCF

Shaq - 30/15/3
Kobe - 29/7/6

2012 LeBron - 30/10/6
2013 LeBron - 26/8/7
2016 LeBron - 26/10/8

Kobe’s 2001 is every bit as good as those runs and he was definitely a better defender than 2016 LeBron. And as good or better than 2012 and 2013 LeBron

[QUOTE=WhiteKyrie;14749825]You could easily make the argument he was 1b. He was the best player on the floor in the most competitive series, IE 2001 WCF

Shaq - 30/15/3
Kobe - 29/7/6

2012 LeBron - 30/10/6
2013 LeBron - 26/8/7
2016 LeBron - 26/10/8

Kobe’s 2001 is every bit as good as those runs and he was definitely a better defender than 2016 LeBron. And as good or better than 2012 and 2013 LeBron[/QUOTE]
The WCF was their most competitive series, the one they won by an average of 22 ppg? What :lol

And no, Kobe was not as good defensively as LeBron was when he was in Miami or in the 2016 Finals.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14749829]The WCF was their most competitive series, the one they won by an average of 22 ppg? What :oldlol:

And no, Kobe was not as good defensively as LeBron when he was in Miami or in the 2016 Finals.[/QUOTE]

Ether.

Never seen a fanbase just blatantly make shit up like kobe stans. They bought into the mamba mentality and are forced to do mental gymnastics in an attempt to shape a reality that doesn't exist. Sick ****ers.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14749829]The WCF was their most competitive series, the one they won by an average of 22 ppg? What :oldlol:

And no, Kobe was not as good defensively as LeBron when he was in Miami, or in the 2016 Finals.[/QUOTE]

Those were full playoff runs and not just Finals.

And no, 2012 and 2013 LeBron wasn’t definitively better defensively than Kobe (his teams best defender) in 2001 and certainly not 2016. That was a chase down block highlight only. Stop embellishing.

Miami as a team was great defensively. LeBron played a part in that, considering 2012 and 2013 are the only seasons in his career where he truly played high-quality consistent defense. As I said those seasons could be argued either way with Kobe.

But 2016? Hell no.

By competitive I meant the 2001 Spurs > 2001 Sixers, in terms of competitiveness numb nuts. 58 wins in the West > 56 wins in the East.

And the reason they were so damn dominant was because of Kobe Bryant. Good lord your Bron knob slobbing knows no bounds.

[QUOTE=WhiteKyrie;14749832]Those were full playoff runs and not just Finals.

And no, 2012 and 2013 LeBron wasn’t definitively better defensively than Kobe (his teams best defender) in 2001 and certainly not 2016. That was a chase down block highlight only. Stop embellishing.

Miami as a team was great defensively. LeBron played a part in that, considering 2012 and 2013 are the only seasons in his career where he truly played high-quality consistent defense. As I said those seasons could be argued either way with Kobe.

But 2016? Hell no.

By competitive I meant the 2001 Spurs > 2001 Sixers, in terms of competitiveness numb nuts. 58 wins in the West > 56 wins in the East.

And the reason they were so damn dominant was because of Kobe Bryant. Good lord your Bron knob slobbing knows no bounds.[/QUOTE]

Here are his 2016 playoff stats from reddit

Overall: 31.9 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 45.9%, [B]-14.0%[/B]

Threes: 24.1 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 36.7%,[B] -12. 6%[/B]

Twos: 36.6 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 50.5%, [B]-13.9%[/B]

<6ft: 37.9 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 61.3%, [B]-23.5%
[/B]
LeBron's defence in the 2016 finals:

Overall: 31.6 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 47.9%,[B] -16.3%[/B]

Threes: 29.0 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 39.6%, [B]-10.6%[/B]

Twos: 33.3 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 53.6%,[B] -20.3%[/B]

<6ft: 38.5 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 63.6%, [B]-25.1%[/B]





Eye test shows insane mixture of rim protection, team defense, on-ball defense, and excellent overall awareness and timing. Prime Bill Russell shit. Peak Draymond shit. Most underrated defender of all time. Lol @ acting like his 2016 defense was no big deal. It easily clears Kobe.

[video=youtube;vIZui0MEfcw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIZui0MEfcw[/video]

[QUOTE=WhiteKyrie;14749832]Those were full playoff runs and not just Finals.

And no, 2012 and 2013 LeBron wasn’t definitively better defensively than Kobe (his teams best defender) in 2001 and certainly not 2016. That was a chase down block highlight only. Stop embellishing.

Miami as a team was great defensively. LeBron played a part in that, considering 2012 and 2013 are the only seasons in his career where he truly played high-quality consistent defense. As I said those seasons could be argued either way with Kobe.

But 2016? Hell no.

By competitive I meant the 2001 Spurs > 2001 Sixers, in terms of competitiveness numb nuts. 58 wins in the West > 56 wins in the East.

And the reason they were so damn dominant was because of Kobe Bryant. Good lord your Bron knob slobbing knows no bounds.[/QUOTE]
Jesus Christ, you're legitimately clueless in so many things that you say :lol LeBron absolutely played high quality consistent defense his last 2 years in Cleveland and his first year in Miami, he locked down the league MVP for fcks sake. And as AltAcct showed, 2016 was a lot more than just a chase down block highlight.

And no, you can't claim a series was their "most competitive" when it was literally one of the least competitive series in NBA history :lol The Kings & Sixers played them much more competitively, and talent wise you could argue the Kings had just as much talent, if not more than the Spurs did, even if they didn't have anybody as good as Duncan.

[QUOTE=AlternativeAcc.;14749837]
Eye test shows insane mixture of rim protection, team defense, on-ball defense, and excellent overall awareness and timing. [B]Prime Bill Russell shit. Peak Draymond shit.[/B] Most underrated defender of all time. Lol @ acting like his 2016 defense was no big deal. It easily clears Kobe.

[video=youtube;vIZui0MEfcw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIZui0MEfcw[/video][/QUOTE]

Lebron played really good defense in the 2016 Finals but he's no was nowhere near a defensive big in total impact. The bolded is laughable. Only on ISH...

As for young Kobe he was really good defensively but he started falling off after 2000 and only occasionally brought it in the playoffs. There is no problem calling prime defensive Lebron which was 2009-2013 and then probably the renaissance in 2016 as a whole tier better than post-2000 Kobe defensively.

[QUOTE=AlternativeAcc.;14749831]Ether.

Never seen a fanbase just blatantly make shit up like kobe stans. They bought into the mamba mentality and are forced to do mental gymnastics in an attempt to shape a reality that doesn't exist. Sick ****ers.[/QUOTE]
:oldlol:

That 'WhiteKyrie' dup is obviously just a casual.

[QUOTE=dankok8;14749850]Lebron played really good defense in the 2016 Finals but he's no was nowhere near a defensive big in total impact. The bolded is laughable. Only on ISH...

As for young Kobe he was really good defensively but he started falling off after 2000 and only occasionally brought it in the playoffs. There is no problem calling prime defensive Lebron which was 2009-2013 and then probably the renaissance in 2016 as a whole tier better than post-2000 Kobe defensively.[/QUOTE]

His rim protection stats from 2015 and 2016 playoffs are better than peak Dray. The bolded is reality... he protected the rim at an elite level and had all-time great help defense.

I'm sorry you can't accept that.