Re: Who Is The GOAT at Winning Games In General With The Worst Teamates Ever?
[QUOTE=Stephonit;14882484]If 2009 is so sensational what are we to make of Dwight Howard leading a team to almost 60 wins in the same conference and knocking LeBron's Cavaliers out. Were Dwight's teammates that much better? Should that be considered an all-time carry job as well?[/QUOTE]
Hedo and Lewis were better players than any teammates LeBron had. Both outplayed Mo in the ECF.
Re: Who Is The GOAT at Winning Games In General With The Worst Teamates Ever?
[QUOTE=Full Court;14882448]Hakeem, Giannis, [B]Kawhi in '19[/B], and Jokic have some of the biggest carry jobs ever.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Axe;14882449]:oldlol:
2017/18 raptors - 59 wins
2018/19 raptors - 58 wins (17-5 without him)
2019/20 raptors - 53 wins
Had 'some of the biggest carry jobs ever' tho.
Truly the epitome of a braindead mongoloid. :lebronamazed:[/QUOTE]
Damn, this was an ether.
Re: Who Is The GOAT at Winning Games In General With The Worst Teamates Ever?
Curry won a title with Andrew Wiggins as his 2nd option. Let that sink in.
Re: Who Is The GOAT at Winning Games In General With The Worst Teamates Ever?
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14882486]Hedo and Lewis were better players than any teammates LeBron had. Both outplayed Mo in the ECF.[/QUOTE]
Lebron should've taken the challenge of guarding them instead of hiding on Courtney Lee. Magic were clear cut underdogs at the start of that series.
Re: Who Is The GOAT at Winning Games In General With The Worst Teamates Ever?
[QUOTE=tpols;14882503]Curry won a title with Andrew Wiggins as his 2nd option. Let that sink in.[/QUOTE]
Not even the greatest carry job in Warriors history. Rick Barry won a title with a 21 year old rookie Jamaal Wilkes averaging 15 ppg as his 2nd option. Curry had 3 teammates who averaged more points than that, not to mention Draymond as the defensive anchor.
Re: Who Is The GOAT at Winning Games In General With The Worst Teamates Ever?
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14882505]Not even the greatest carry job in Warriors history. Rick Barry won a title with a 21 year old rookie Jamaal Wilkes averaging 15 ppg as his 2nd option.[/QUOTE]
And that was a GOAT carry job by Barry too. Not to mention neither of us even existed when it happened. Even kblaze might not have.
Re: Who Is The GOAT at Winning Games In General With The Worst Teamates Ever?
It's Lebron.
Followed by Shaq.
Re: Who Is The GOAT at Winning Games In General With The Worst Teamates Ever?
.
Help needed to win 40 games
[indent]2005 Lebron....... all-star teammate
1987 Jordan....... nothing[/indent]
Help needed to win 50 games
[indent]2006 Lebron....... all-star teammate, HOF coach, 22/5/5 all-defender acquisition
1988 Jordan....... nothing[/indent]
Help needed to win title as 1st option
[indent]Jordan......... 1 all-star teammate
Lebron......... 2 all-star teammates[/indent]
Mo didn't join a good team in 2009 - his spacing lifted a 45-win loser to 66 wins and showed everyone for the first time that Lebron can be MVP with great spacing and have top teams.. Mo accomplished this by achieving superior PER, BPM, WS/48, VORP, scoring and efficiency than 1990 Pippen, while the Cavs had the 3rd-ranked defense (19th for 1990 Bulls)..
So Lebron started with a better team on both sides of the ball, yet Jordan still beat him to titles by winning the following season, while Lebron kept losing as the favorite for several more years.
Finally, Lebron never beat a top 5 SRS team with weak scoring & efficiency from a sidekick - so he can't win with weak scoring help and needs all-time scoring help to win.
Re: Who Is The GOAT at Winning Games In General With The Worst Teamates Ever?
There needs to be clarification if we're talking playoffs or regular season. Playoff carryjobs matter more to me if not Westbrook might top this list.
Dirk also almost won 2 titles with Jason Terry as his 2nd option which was a Mo Williams level talent. And he did it facing gauntlets in the West.
Re: Who Is The GOAT at Winning Games In General With The Worst Teamates Ever?
[QUOTE=3ba11;14882514].
Help needed to win 40 games
[indent]2005 Lebron....... all-star teammate
1987 Jordan....... nothing[/indent]
Help needed to win 50 games
[indent]2006 Lebron....... all-star teammate, HOF coach, 22/5/5 all-defender acquisition
1988 Jordan....... nothing[/indent]
Help needed to win title as 1st option
[indent]Jordan......... 1 all-star teammate
Lebron......... 2 all-star teammates[/indent]
Mo didn't join a good team in 2009 - his spacing lifted a 45-win loser to 66 wins and showed everyone for the first time that Lebron can be MVP with great spacing and have top teams.. Mo accomplished this by achieving superior PER, BPM, WS/48, VORP, scoring and efficiency than 1990 Pippen, while the Cavs had the 3rd-ranked defense (19th for 1990 Bulls)..
So Lebron started with a better team on both sides of the ball, yet Jordan still beat him to titles by winning the following season, while Lebron kept losing as the favorite for several more years.
Finally, Lebron never beat a top 5 SRS team with weak scoring & efficiency from a sidekick - so he can't win with weak scoring help and needs all-time scoring help to win.[/QUOTE]
You're not convincing anyone that Mo Williams is better than Scottie Pippen :oldlol:
Re: Who Is The GOAT at Winning Games In General With The Worst Teamates Ever?
[QUOTE=tpols;14882519]There needs to be clarification if we're talking playoffs or regular season. Playoff carryjobs matter more to me if not Westbrook might top this list.
[B]Dirk also almost won 2 titles with Jason Terry as his 2nd option which was a Mo Williams level talent[/B]. And he did it facing gauntlets in the West.[/QUOTE]
Certainly seems like an over-simplication.
Re: Who Is The GOAT at Winning Games In General With The Worst Teamates Ever?
[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14882526]Certainly seems like an over-simplication.[/QUOTE]
Not at all...
Dirk had to face teams absolutely stacked with talent ~ Suns, Spurs, Lakers, Thunder, both versions of the Heat Big 3 and Wade / Shaq and darn near won twice including his 1 win being a GOAT carry job. Jason Terry is nice but he's a historically weak 2nd option looking at title teams.
Re: Who Is The GOAT at Winning Games In General With The Worst Teamates Ever?
[QUOTE=tpols;14882528]Not at all...
Dirk had to face teams absolutely stacked with talent ~ Suns, Spurs, Lakers, Thunder, both versions of the Heat Big 3 and Wade / Shaq and darn near won twice including his 1 win being a GOAT carry job. [B]Jason Terry is nice but he's a historically weak 2nd option looking at title teams[/B].[/QUOTE]
Sure. The oversimplification comment was in response to basing a carry-job solely on who the second option is. Both the 06 and 11 Mavs were incredibly deep, well put together, and well-coached teams. The veteran leadership and defensive prowess of Kidd, Marion, and Chandler had as much to do with the title as Dirk and Terry.
Re: Who Is The GOAT at Winning Games In General With The Worst Teamates Ever?
[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14882530]Sure. The oversimplification comment was in response to basing a carry-job solely on who the second option is. Both the 06 and 11 Mavs were incredibly deep, well put together, and well-coached teams. The veteran leadership and defensive prowess of Kidd, Marion, and Chandler had as much to do with the title as Dirk and Terry.[/QUOTE]
In 2006 they didn't have those guys and were very close to a title. Unless you think Marquis Daniel's, Josh Howard, and Erik Dampier are great help.
Re: Who Is The GOAT at Winning Games In General With The Worst Teamates Ever?
[QUOTE=tpols;14882532]In 2006 they didn't have those guys and were very close to a title. Unless you think Marquis Daniel's, Josh Howard, and Erik Dampier are great help.[/QUOTE]
It's all relative. Aside from perhaps the Spurs with Parker, I can't think of a team in the NBA that year who had a better 3rd best player than Josh Howard.
The Suns would have been but Amare was out.
