Why I think the Kobe-Pau Lakers would be just as good today

[QUOTE=Phoenix;14941098]I mean, I suppose 14 years in sports years and specifically the current NBA is a long time, especially with the proliferation of the 3pointer the last decade. But Kobe and Pau did win a title 14 years ago lol, it's not like them as individual players are outdated or as a duo. 2008-2010 Kobe is comfortably the best 2-guard today and Pau would still be a top flight big, he'd probably exclusively play the 5. Kobe would have a greater greenlight to shoot the 3 with more spaced out courts. His volume and % will likely noticeably rise.

You'd then surround then with the requisite 3 point shooting needed of more modern( say post 2014) teams. And I can imagine someone like a Jrue Holiday next to Kobe in the backcourt.[/QUOTE]

It's not about Kobe or Pau, they'd be fine. It's about the other Lakers.

[QUOTE=iamgine;14941101]Yes, the Lakers that won B2B, the way they were constructed, I'm not sure they make the playoff. They might tho.

Miami Heat ah yes look at how much more 3s they shot compared to the Lakers.[/QUOTE]

And yet... the 2020 and 2023 Miami Heat and 2009 Lakers had the same exact offensive efficiency over the course of the season. But the Lakers defensive and rebounding metrics were far superior. And LAs tandem of Kobe and Pau was > Butler and Bam.

So what you're saying isn't adding up. Miami made the Finals with a 25th ranked offense in 2023.

[QUOTE=tpols;14941104]And yet... the 2020 and 2023 Miami Heat and 2009 Lakers had the same exact offensive efficiency over the course of the season. But the Lakers defensive and rebounding metrics were far superior. And LAs tandem of Kobe and Pau was > Butler and Bam.

So what you're saying isn't adding up. Miami made the Finals with a 25th ranked offense in 2023.[/QUOTE]

Miami made the Finals but you seem to forget that they were a play-in team. Their style was not particularly effective, Butler just played at a great level for a few series. Once they got to the finals they got destroyed. A team from the Lakers era that had never seen the level of the point shooting we have in the NBA now isn't going to be a contender. Bryant and Gasol would still be effective but they would have to be surrounded by far better shooters.

[QUOTE=tontoz;14941088]The Lakers averaged only 6.7 made 3s per game.

[url]https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/three-pointers-made-per-game?date=2009-06-15[/url]


This past season last place Orlando made 11 per game.[/QUOTE]
They’d get obliterated by the Celtics lmao.

[QUOTE=iamgine;14941103]It's not about Kobe or Pau, they'd be fine. It's about the other Lakers.[/QUOTE]

The thread topic is about Kobe and Pau, so my reply is focused on them. It being mainly about the others goes without saying, as is the case for any other elite players(s). And in saying that, 'the others' is highly variable. So what is your premise.. throw together 10 other hypothetical teammates? That's an exercise worth investing time and energy in? Kobe and Pau on their own would be a great core even in 2024, now you surround them with the right talent, coaching, system and circumstances. The formula doesn't change, you just tweak it to fit the league they're in.

[QUOTE=Phoenix;14941124]The thread topic is about Kobe and Pau, so my reply is focused on them. It being mainly about the others goes without saying, as is the case for any other elite players(s). And in saying that, 'the others' is highly variable. So what is your premise.. throw together 10 other hypothetical teammates? That's an exercise worth investing time and energy in? Kobe and Pau on their own would be a great core even in 2024?now you surround them with the right talent, coaching, system and circumstances based. The formula doesn't change, you just tweak it to fit the league they're in.[/QUOTE]
Kobe and Pau could be built around to make a good team in 2024 but those Lakers were built terribly for today. They were playing 3 bigs at times.

I just looked it up fellas because I knew what some of you cats were saying didn't add up in regards to the 3pt spacing of those Laker teams.

Look at Trevor Arizas playoff splits from 2009.

[IMG]https://i.postimg.cc/8Ck8hqmf/Screenshot-20240905-125742-Chrome.jpg[/IMG]

He shot 50+% on average from deep. Best of his career... on absolute fire. And Derek Fisher played all 82 games that year and he shot 40% from 3pt range.

This is direct proof that LAs role players could shoot 3s and space the floor. Now the question is could today's champions with their weak defensive frontcourts contain their 2pt scoring in the triangle system.

We haven't seen this point addressed yet.

[QUOTE=RRR3;14941128]Kobe and Pau could be built around to make a good team in 2024 but those Lakers were built terribly for today. They were playing 3 bigs at times.[/QUOTE]

Yes but I'm not making a case for putting the 2008-2010 Lakers in 2024. I'm making the case that Kobe and Gasol would still be a great duo today, and you surround them with the right mix of players in today's league. Like...what is the conversation in question? How good would Kobe/Gasol be in 2024, or how good are the 2009 Lakers in 2024? Because my comments address the former scenario. Like... I ain't even said anything about the 2008-2010 Lakers lol...

[QUOTE=Phoenix;14941131]Yes but I'm not making a case for putting the 2008-2010 Lakers in 2024. I'm making the case that Kobe and Gasol would still be a great duo today, and you surround them with the right mix of players in today's league. Like...what is the conversation in question? How good would Kobe/Gasol be in 2024, or how good are the 2009 Lakers in 2024? Because my comments address the former scenario. Like... I ain't even said anything about the 2008-2010 Lakers lol...[/QUOTE]
The OP's question is about the 2009 Lakers though. That team would not even be good.

[QUOTE=RRR3;14941132]The OP's question is about the 2009 Lakers though. That team would not even be good.[/QUOTE]

I skimmed through his OP and didn't see any specific arguments about the 2009 Lakers. I'll read it again....in any case I've made my comments about Kobe/Gasol on their own merits. The 2009 team isn't designed for 2024 NBA basketball, if that's the core sentiment being argued ( and again, I must have missed it in the OP).

The main reference I see to the 2009 Lakers is this:

'They also have the personnel to increase their 3PA if needed.'

Which I assume he's saying the 2009 Lakers personnel could scale their games to 2024 basketball. Otherwise I don't see where the core of the conversation( at least in the OP) is expressly centered on 'how good would the 2009 Lakers be in 2024?' I don't get the sense that was the main purpose of the thread.

If it is the intent, the title should probably better reflect that as opposed to singling out how good Kobe and Gasol would be today. ' How good would the 2009 Lakers be today' as a thread title and supporting OP speaking specifically to that question wouldn't leave wiggle room for misinterpretation.

I'm genuinely curious, which championship teams since 2010 would you guys pick the Kobe/Pau Lakers to beat?

[QUOTE=tpols;14941130]I just looked it up fellas because I knew what some of you cats were saying didn't add up in regards to the 3pt spacing of those Laker teams.

Look at Trevor Arizas playoff splits from 2009.

[IMG]https://i.postimg.cc/8Ck8hqmf/Screenshot-20240905-125742-Chrome.jpg[/IMG]

He shot 50+% on average from deep. Best of his career... on absolute fire. And Derek Fisher played all 82 games that year and he shot 40% from 3pt range.

This is direct proof that LAs role players could shoot 3s and space the floor. Now the question is could today's champions with their weak defensive frontcourts contain their 2pt scoring in the triangle system.

We haven't seen this point addressed yet.[/QUOTE]




Trevor's 3 pt shooting during the Lakers title run was a total outlier. He shot 25% in the playoffs the season before. He shot 33% during the regular season in 2008-09.

In spite of his career best 3 pt shooting he still only made 1.7 3s per game in the playoffs. He was a slow release catch and shoot player. He was not a guy who could scale up his 3s. He couldn't shoot 3s off the dribble at all.

His first season with the Wizards he shot 36.4% from 3 which was his career high by far, thanks to Wall setting him up for easy looks. He never even shot 34% prior to that.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14941138]I'm genuinely curious, which championship teams since 2010 would you guys pick the Kobe/Pau Lakers to beat?[/QUOTE]

I couldn't make strong arguments for anyone after 2011. Mayyyybe the 2012 Heat? I don't see them beating the 2014 Spurs, 2013 Heat, definitely not the Warriors. 2016 Cavs...nope but could go 7 maybe(I'm not sure why I feel that way). 2019 Raptors...nope. 2019 Kawhi vs 2010 Kobe is a push(maybe even slight edge to Kawhi) but I'm definitely taking the rest of the Raptors roster. 2021 Bucks? Alot of health related luck went into their run. The Nuggets were 26th in 3PA and still took 12 more than the Lakers. It really just comes down to the X and Os not being enough to balance out the gulf in 3s taken, and/or huge gaps in overall firepower.

[QUOTE=Phoenix;14941151]I couldn't make strong arguments for anyone after 2011. Mayyyybe the 2012 Heat? I don't see them beating the 2014 Spurs, 2013 Heat, definitely not the Warriors. 2016 Cavs...nope but could go 7 maybe(I'm not sure why I feel that way). 2019 Raptors...nope. 2019 Kawhi vs 2010 Kobe is a push(maybe even slight edge to Kawhi) but I'm definitely taking the rest of the Raptors roster. 2021 Bucks? Alot of health related luck went into their run. The Nuggets were 26th in 3PA and still took 12 more than the Lakers. It really just comes down to the X and Os not being enough to balance out the gulf in 3s taken, and/or huge gaps in overall firepower.[/QUOTE]
Despite the thrashing they gave them in 2011, I'd pick them to beat Dallas. That Lakers team was running on fumes, and Kobe/Pau played like shells of themselves.

I actually feel the opposite about Miami, I think they'd have a better shot at the 2013 Heat than they would 2012. Hibbert absolutely destroyed them in 2013, I shudder to think what the Lakers frontline would do to them, plus that version of Wade was far worse.

I also think they'd give the Cavs a run for their money. Similarly to Miami, I think their frontcourt poses a potential matchup problem for Cleveland.

I think they'd have a solid shot against the Bucks as well. I think their frontcourt personnel would potentially cause problems for Giannis, as he would not be able to run downhill towards the basket with ease like he does against current teams.

Gun to my head, I'd probably still pick the latter 3 teams to beat them, but I think those are the matchups they'd be the most competitive in. The rest of the teams I'd pick to beat the Lakers.