Re: Jokic is the 4th best player of all time
[QUOTE=GOBB;14984751]Prisoners of moments[/QUOTE]
Five years of peak MJ/Lebron play is me being a "prisoner of the moment"? :biggums:
Jokic is literally a BETTER/BIGGER version of Larry Bird.
Magic -> Lebron
Bird -> Jokic
This is the evolution of two players widely considered top 10 all time, so of course Lebron/Jokic will rank higher.
Re: Jokic is the 4th best player of all time
Exact numerical rankings are frankly dumb. Separating guys to that fine a degree "hes first, and hes second, and hes third" is so subjective and arbitrary and erroneous. When youre talking about guys within the same general tier, what separates them is mainly just the circumstance they were in. Luck, team fit, era, and so on.
That said, Jokic is clearly up there as a player with anyone. Ive already said this for a couple years, you can put him in the category of best players ever alongside anyone else in it. If youre really perspicacious, you can see it pretty easily. Youre not scared to say something before it's acceptable.
People who wanna stick with generic formulas approved by "Wake Up With Mike Greenberg!" will say [i]he needs to do this or that still[/i] which has nothing to do with his ability as a player, and they will obviously wait until the media says it's okay to rank him here or there, and then theyll do it. Thats the big bulk of standard humanity. Wait for the group to move first, then dutifully follow/agree.
And there theres guys like highwhey, rrr3 and gobb who are resentful and emotional about Jokic for personal reasons, and their view of him will be artificially diminished by the hurt they feel when Jokic succeeds.
So everyone has their place.
Re: Jokic is the 4th best player of all time
[QUOTE=Neal Romer;14984763]Exact numerical rankings are frankly dumb. Separating guys to that fine a degree "hes first, and hes second, and hes third" is so subjective and arbitrary and erroneous. When youre talking about guys within the same general tier, what separates them is mainly just the circumstance they were in. Luck, team fit, era, and so on.
That said, Jokic is clearly up there as a player with anyone. Ive already said this for a couple years, you can put him in the category of best players ever alongside anyone else in it. If youre really perspicacious, you can see it pretty easily. Youre not scared to say something before it's acceptable.
People who wanna stick with generic formulas approved by "Wake Up With Mike Greenberg!" will say [i]he needs to do this or that still[/i] which has nothing to do with his ability as a player, and they will obviously wait until the media says it's okay to rank him here or there, and then theyll do it. Thats the big bulk of standard humanity. Wait for the group to move first, then dutifully follow/agree.
And there theres guys like highwhey, rrr3 and gobb who are resentful and emotional about Jokic for personal reasons, and their view of him will be artificially diminished by the hurt they feel when Jokic succeeds.
So everyone has their place.[/QUOTE]
Fine let's rephrase from Jokic is "4th best" to Jokic is a top 4 player of all time (so any order you want then).
Re: Jokic is the 4th best player of all time
[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14984764]Fine let's rephrase from Jokic is "4th best" to Jokic is a top 4 player of all time (so any order you want then).[/QUOTE]
As long as you got Lebron at #1, you can put whoever else you want wherever else you want ;)
Re: Jokic is the 4th best player of all time
[QUOTE=Neal Romer;14984763]Exact numerical rankings are frankly dumb. Separating guys to that fine a degree "hes first, and hes second, and hes third" is so subjective and arbitrary and erroneous. When youre talking about guys within the same general tier, what separates them is mainly just the circumstance they were in. Luck, team fit, era, and so on.
That said, Jokic is clearly up there as a player with anyone. Ive already said this for a couple years, you can put him in the category of best players ever alongside anyone else in it. If youre really perspicacious, you can see it pretty easily. Youre not scared to say something before it's acceptable.
People who wanna stick with generic formulas approved by "Wake Up With Mike Greenberg!" will say [i]he needs to do this or that still[/i] which has nothing to do with his ability as a player, and they will obviously wait until the media says it's okay to rank him here or there, and then theyll do it. Thats the big bulk of standard humanity. Wait for the group to move first, then dutifully follow/agree.
[B]And there theres guys like highwhey, rrr3 and gobb who are resentful and emotional about Jokic for personal reasons, and their view of him will be artificially diminished by the hurt they feel when Jokic succeeds.[/B]
So everyone has their place.[/QUOTE]
:lol
That was put very nicely.
Re: Jokic is the 4th best player of all time
[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14984762]Five years of peak MJ/Lebron play is me being a "prisoner of the moment"? :biggums:
Jokic is literally a BETTER/BIGGER version of Larry Bird.
Magic -> Lebron
Bird -> Jokic
This is the evolution of two players widely considered top 10 all time, so of course Lebron/Jokic will rank higher.[/QUOTE]
Bird played defense.
Re: Jokic is the 4th best player of all time
[QUOTE=RRR3;14984775]Bird played defense.[/QUOTE]
Jokic is top 5 in steals. How do you steal the ball without playing defense?
Also... [I]youre[/I] [I]RRR3[/I].
Re: Jokic is the 4th best player of all time
How autistic do you have to be to constantly try and rank players in a team sport?
Re: Jokic is the 4th best player of all time
[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14984724[B]]Don't care about "resumes" or accolades at this point. [/B]Jokic is above all of that just like MJ/Lebron were. MJ was crowned best ever before his career finished. Lebron hit that same pedestal. Jokic is there too.
Kareem, MJ, Lebron, Jokic - 4 best players based on "on the court" ability.[/QUOTE]
He's no slouch in that dept either. 3 MVPs, 1 ring w/FVP before he turned 30. I think there is too much parity in the 20's for someone to win 4-5 rings this decade( especially since half of it is over) and he's probably gonna get robbed of a few MVPs for 'reasons'. But strictly as far as individual offensive ability and its effect to lift a team, we all see what we're seeing.
Re: Jokic is the 4th best player of all time
Damn the 4th best player ever and he's only going to end up with 1 championship. The 4th best player ever yet he gets outplayed in his own era by Joel Embiid H2H. 4th best player ever yet the ball is in Jamal Murray's hands when the game is on the line in the playoffs.
Hakeem B2B champ (Considered by many as the greatest defensive center of all time)
Tim Duncan Dynasty starter (Greatest PF ever)
Shaq Dynastic Center (considered by many to be the most dominant player and if there was an all time draft he would be in the running to be picked #1 with Michael Jordan and LeBron James)
nikola jokc 1 nba championship (jamal murray averaged 26 points and was a 50/40/90 guy during the entire playoff run)
Jokic is better than a guy who averaged 24/17/5 and 5 blocks per game in the finals. lol you jokic stans disgust me....one championship top 4.....you are lucky im not a mod
Re: Jokic is the 4th best player of all time
[QUOTE=Mask the Embiid;14984796]Damn the 4th best player ever and he's only going to end up with 1 championship. The 4th best player ever yet he gets outplayed in his own era by Joel Embiid H2H. 4th best player ever yet the ball is in Jamal Murray's hands when the game is on the line in the playoffs.
Hakeem B2B champ (Considered by many as the great defensive center of all time)
Tim Duncan Dynasty starter (Greatest PF ever)
Shaq Dynastic Center (considered by many to be the most dominant player and if there was an all time draft he would be in the running to be pick #1 with Michael Jordan and LeBron James)
nikola jokc 1 nba championship (jamal murray averaged 26 points and was a 50/40/90 guy during the entire playoff run)[/QUOTE]
[IMG]https://media0.giphy.com/media/kkEm7G8KUezK/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b9527ol3hxpd6of8gjbqnpoztmosq6k4nt4r98hz71y9&ep=v1_internal_gif_by_id&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g[/IMG]
Re: Jokic is the 4th best player of all time
[QUOTE=Mask the Embiid;14984796]Damn the 4th best player ever and he's only going to end up with 1 championship. The 4th best player ever yet he gets outplayed in his own era by Joel Embiid H2H. 4th best player ever yet the ball is in Jamal Murray's hands when the game is on the line in the playoffs.
Hakeem B2B champ (Considered by many as the great defensive center of all time)
Tim Duncan Dynasty starter (Greatest PF ever)
Shaq Dynastic Center (considered by many to be the most dominant player and if there was an all time draft he would be in the running to be pick #1 with Michael Jordan and LeBron James)
nikola jokc 1 nba championship (jamal murray averaged 26 points and was a 50/40/90 guy during the entire playoff run)[/QUOTE]
Imagine if you replaced Jamal Murray with prime Jimmy Butler. Embiid lost in the 2nd round with that and multiple other All Star talents. Tyrese Maxey is basically Jamal Murray and Embiid is 1st round or lotto with that help proven while Jokic is Champion.
Re: Jokic is the 4th best player of all time
4th best player ever yet he got knocked out of the playoffs in his peak by a 22-year-old Ant man in a game 7 while at home....4th best ever!
Re: Jokic is the 4th best player of all time
[QUOTE=Mask the Embiid;14984801]4th best player ever yet he got knocked out of the playoffs in his peak by a 22-year-old Ant man in a game 7 while at home....4th best ever![/QUOTE]
1 - Basketball is a team sport
2 - You're anti white
Re: Jokic is the 4th best player of all time
[QUOTE=Mask the Embiid;14984801]4th best player ever yet he got knocked out of the playoffs in his peak by a 22-year-old Ant man in a game 7 while at home....4th best ever![/QUOTE]
Embiid got knocked out of the playoffs in his peak by a 22-year-old Trae in a game 7 while at home.