Every 2nd option took over the top dog/1st option role in a series, except Pippen

[QUOTE=Hey Yo;15043692]MJ replaced with a scrub = 55 wins

When LeBron left Cleveland in 2010... it took the Cavs 2+ seasons (213gms) to win 55gms

:roll:[/QUOTE]


The 2010 Cavs were 2nd Round losers that lost their entire team, so they fell to lottery... They lost Mo, Varejao, Shaq, Zydrunas and Delonte, which was 52 ppg.. Lebron essentially gutted that team by losing so catastrophically as a favorite for 2 straight years

It's easy to forget that Lebron couldn't win more than 45-50 games until he received a 2nd all-star in 2009 to provide the spacing his stiff-arm needed to be MVP.. Meanwhile, AD lifted a lottery team to champion in 2020, so teammates like Mo and AD always saved Lebron's teams... And of course his super-team teammates like Wade, Bosh, Allen, Love and Kyrie

[QUOTE=3ba11;15043690]Penny isn't lying - it's a fact that everyone stayed out all night before playing the 94' Bulls.. So the 55 wins doesn't represent a team that Pippen built/developed/sustained - it was an obvious fluke and crashed to earth real quick[/QUOTE]

Extremely shook by the FACTS.... resorts to a player opinion as retort :lol

Dbl

[QUOTE=Hey Yo;15043692]MJ replaced with a scrub = 55 wins

When LeBron left Cleveland in 2010... it took the Cavs 2+ seasons (213gms) to win 55gms

:roll:[/QUOTE]


Jordan took a .500 ballclub in 1995 to 72 wins and the goat team in 1996.. So 1994 was a fluke that meant nothing except to inflate Pippen's career by being HANDED the goat team against sleeping opponents

[QUOTE=Hey Yo;15043694]Extremely shook by the FACTS.... resorts to a player opinion as retort :lol[/QUOTE]


i responded to you in the previous post above, while you ignored my facts about the 2010 Cavs in post #16

[QUOTE=3ba11;15043693]The 2010 Cavs were 2nd Round losers that lost their entire team, so they fell to lottery... They lost Mo, Varejao, Shaq, Zydrunas and Delonte, which was 52 ppg.. Lebron essentially gutted that team by losing so catastrophically as a favorite for 2 straight years

It's easy to forget that Lebron couldn't win more than 45-50 games until he received a 2nd all-star in 2009 to provide the spacing his stiff-arm needed to be MVP.. Meanwhile, AD lifted a lottery team to champion in 2020, so teammates like Mo and AD always saved Lebron's teams... And of course his super-team teammates like Wade, Bosh, Allen, Love and Kyrie[/QUOTE]

Your GOAT was replaced by a 6th round scrub. If Jordan was Chicago's entire offense and Pippen sucked like you claim.... then you're admitting the league and competition was complete shit during MJ's time in the 90's.

You can't claim all that stupid shit without contradicting yourself, ya dope.

[QUOTE=Hey Yo;15043698]Your GOAT was replaced by a 6th round scrub. If Jordan was Chicago's entire offense and Pippen sucked like you claim.... then you're admitting the league and competition was complete shit during MJ's time in the 90's.

You can't claim all that stupid shit without contradicting yourself, ya dope.[/QUOTE]


It's easy to be complete shit when you're hung over from staying out all night and partying

Imagine that you're a rookie baseball player in the 1920's, and you get the schedule for the upcoming season - the first thing you do is circle the date that you will face the great Babe Ruth - you can't wait and buy tickets to fly in all your friends and family... But right before the season, Babe Ruth retires suddenly - so the biggest game of your life became the most meaningless game - the biggest letdown game of all-time - that's what the 94' Bulls were and Penny confirmed it nicely for us

[QUOTE=3ba11;15043696]Jordan took a .500 ballclub in 1995 to 72 wins and the goat team in 1996.. So 1994 was a fluke that meant nothing except to inflate Pippen's career by being HANDED the goat team against sleeping opponents[/QUOTE]

That's after taking time off to rest and recruiting the NBA's greatest rebounder of the modern era.

Rodman received multiple FMVP votes in 96 for avg. 7ppg. Kemp got multiple FMVP votes for losing. :lol

[QUOTE=Hey Yo;15043700]That's after taking time off to rest and recruiting the NBA's greatest rebounder of the modern era.

Rodman received multiple FMVP votes in 96 for avg. 7ppg. Kemp got multiple FMVP votes for losing. :lol[/QUOTE]


Jordan was forced to co-lead the rebounding with 8 RPG for the 97' Playoffs because Rodman only averaged 4/8 for those playoffs, and he wasn't the starter for the 98' Playoffs... Kukoc beat Rodman for the starting PF spot, which means that Jordan won titles with 3 different role players at PF - Kukoc, Grant and Rodman... Fossil Rodman was worse than 2010 Shaq or 09' Ben Wallace, and the Bulls won IN SPITE of going 4 on 5 offensively... ... Infact, Jordan is the only guy that woke titles with a 4 ppg guy getting major minutes

[QUOTE=3ba11;15043699][b]It's easy to be complete shit when you're hung over from staying out all night and partying[/b]

Imagine that you're a rookie baseball player in the 1920's, and you get the schedule for the upcoming season - the first thing you do is circle the date that you will face the great Babe Ruth - you can't wait and buy tickets to fly in all your friends and family... But right before the season, Babe Ruth retires suddenly - so the biggest game of your life became the most meaningless game - the biggest letdown game of all-time - that's what the 94' Bulls were and Penny confirmed it nicely for us[/QUOTE]

One players opinion doesn't mean shit. How come word didn't get out about the allegedly partying to those voting for MVP, ALL-NBA and All-Defensive?

[QUOTE=3ba11;15043702]Jordan was forced to co-lead the rebounding with 8 RPG for the 97' Playoffs because Rodman only averaged 4/8 for those playoffs, and he wasn't the starter for the 98' Playoffs... Kukoc beat Rodman for the starting PF spot, which means that Jordan won titles with 3 different role players at PF - Kukoc, Grant and Rodman... Fossil Rodman was worse than 2010 Shaq or 09' Ben Wallace, and the Bulls won IN SPITE of going 4 on 5 offensively... ... Infact, Jordan is the only guy that woke titles with a 4 ppg guy getting major minutes[/QUOTE]

None of that changes what happened in 96. Jordan was all on board with adding then current 4x rebound champ / 7x consecutive All Defensive team....

[QUOTE=3ba11;15043702]Jordan was forced to co-lead the rebounding with 8 RPG for the 97' Playoffs because Rodman only averaged 4/8 for those playoffs, and he wasn't the starter for the 98' Playoffs... Kukoc beat Rodman for the starting PF spot, which means that Jordan won titles with 3 different role players at PF - Kukoc, Grant and Rodman... Fossil Rodman was worse than 2010 Shaq or 09' Ben Wallace, and the Bulls won IN SPITE of going 4 on 5 offensively... ... Infact, Jordan is the only guy that woke titles with a 4 ppg guy getting major minutes[/QUOTE]

If Jordan didn't take time off to rest abd recharge... there'd be no 96-98 Finals. He would've petered out and bounced before those Finals. That's why those 3 get an * due to what no other great player has done before or after him.... quit the league, rest up, then return to win more titles*

MJ's considered in a league of his own.... due to quitting and coming back multiple times.

[QUOTE=3ba11;15043656]You were already proven wrong and now you're flailing

Stockton wasn't the 2nd option either

Stockton still dominated the 97' WCF to carry the Jazz to the Finals, while hitting the historic series walk-off in Barkley's face - so he was "that guy", while Pippen never was... Stockton also outplayed Magic in the 88' Playoffs when the Jazz nearly beat them.. Again,, Pippen never dominated and was [U]always carried in every series[/U] - this is unique to Pippen among 2nd options[/QUOTE]

You’re the one who brought up Stockton. Go read your first post.

In the 88 Lakers series, Malone averaged 29 to Stockton’s 19. You really want to say that Stockton was first option or top dog in that series.

In the 97 WCF, Stockton was great and his game winner basically broke the Rockets (I live in Houston). But still not a first option, nor even top dog on the team.

Don’t change your criteria. Stockton was great. The Jazz may have been the epitome of the two man game, but there was never any series in which Malone was not the top guy.

[QUOTE=Hey Yo;15043706]None of that changes what happened in 96. Jordan was all on board with adding then current 4x rebound champ / 7x consecutive All Defensive team....[/QUOTE]


Again, when we look at what each guy needed to win, we see that Lebron needed franchise players at PF like AD, Love or Bosh, while the PF position was a role player position for Jordan (Grant, Kukoc, Rodman)

[QUOTE=Hey Yo;15043709]If Jordan didn't take time off to rest abd recharge... there'd be no 96-98 Finals. He would've petered out and bounced before those Finals. That's why those 3 get an * due to what no other great player has done before or after him.... quit the league, rest up, then return to win more titles*

MJ's considered in a league of his own.... due to quitting and coming back multiple times.[/QUOTE]


It's interesting because part of the reason the 94' Bulls won 55 is because they upgraded every roster spot and also received the "closer" that Jordan never had in Kukoc, who hit 5 game-winners for them that season.

the point is that this would've been BY FAR the strongest cast that Jordan ever had if he never retired in 94' - he would've 4-peated, and therefore the same result - GOAT status... ... He had just averaged 41 ppg in the Finals, so it's not like he was physically injured... He simply saw an opportunity to take some time off without hurting his legacy because he was so far ahead of the pack... But he obviously could've played if he decided to