Printable View
[quote]AI had Carmelo, Camby and still couldnt get out of 1st round....what are u talking about[/quote]
First AI doesn't live up to the hype either. Second, no one calls him the greatest or compares him to MJ. Third Karl isn't Phil. Third Carmelo is even more overrated than both of them put together.
[QUOTE=AItheAnswer3]Funny how Melo still averages the same number of points as AI[/QUOTE]
It's sad. melo should be averaging lot more. the offense should be run through him. but all we see is AI chucking and over dribbling the rock. if anthing, melo has regressed playing with AI.
[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You]First AI doesn't live up to the hype either. Second, no one calls him the greatest or compares him to MJ. Third Karl isn't Phil. Third Carmelo is even more overrated than both of them put together.[/QUOTE]
Carmelo is not overrated. If anything he's underrated because most people don't realize how talented this guy is. Back in 2003 or whenever he was a rookie people some of the experts thought he might be better than LeBron when it's all said and done. Obviously that probably won't come true, but still. The problem with Carmelo is that he doesn't have his head screwed. He has all the makings of a great player, but he just hasn't been able to put it together. Natural talent + hard worker + great fundamentals = great player
My guess is he'll eventually figure it out. When it happens is anyone's guess.
[QUOTE=BigJake
I don't think either of them are selfish.
[quote]Carmelo is not overrated. If anything he's underrated because most people don't realize how talented this guy is. Back in 2003 or whenever he was a rookie people some of the experts thought he might be better than LeBron when it's all said and done. Obviously that probably won't come true, but still.[/quote]
Carmelo and his supporters are still putting him in with Wade and Lebron. Alex English maybe. Lebron/Wade? LOL!
[quote] The problem with Carmelo is that he doesn't have his head screwed.[/quote]
That much is certain.
Only a moron would consider Kobe selfish, especially after the 07-08 season...
[QUOTE=KINGK]Only a moron would consider Kobe selfish, especially after the 07-08 season...[/QUOTE]
I don't think they're taking about last season only.
[QUOTE=chains5000]I don't think they're taking about last season only.[/QUOTE]
Kobe has been sacrificing his game for the better of the team literally his whole career. And 07-08 was a great example of that.
[QUOTE=KINGK]Kobe has been sacrificing his game for the better of the team literally his whole career. And 07-08 was a great example of that.[/QUOTE]
He also stopped growing so he wasn't too tall for a SG, which was the position the Lakers needed him to play.
It's actually true. Aside from the last season with Shaq in 2004 and up to last year he showed a willingness to sacrafice for the good of the team. I think no one would argue that Kobe's career stats would be more impressive had he not played team ball with Shaq and the Lakers.
[QUOTE=Interminator]Every mention of Iverson is that he needs a team with players who don't have score first mentalities but instead are role players
But for Kobe there's no certain teammates he needs and he can succeed with score 1st players like Pau & Bynum.
Maybe I don't focus enough on Kobe as many of the Laker goofs do but Kobe plays more selfishly than Allen Iverson when it comes to forcing shots and taking contested shots.
People think that because Iverson went to the Finals with a bunch of role players then it means that Iverson can't win without role players and I don't believe that.
Then when LeBron is mentioned its said he needs another scorer yet he went to the NBA Finals with a cast of role players.:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
All great players are selfish at times. What set them apart is their shot selection and neither Kobe or Iverson have good shot selections.
[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You]First AI doesn't live up to the hype either. Second, no one calls him the greatest or compares him to MJ. Third Karl isn't Phil. Third Carmelo is even more overrated than both of them put together.[/QUOTE]
so you are bashing everybody??? AI, Kobe, Carmelo....Karl???
i don't consider either of those players selfish. they do what they can to help their respective teams win. the players who are selfish are the one's who get their money, get lazy, and don't produce.
[quote]Kobe has been sacrificing his game for the better of the team literally his whole career. [/quote]
LOL! He'd have more rings and less scoring titles if that was the case.
[quote]so you are bashing everybody??? AI, Kobe, Carmelo....Karl???[/quote]
Saying Karl isn't Phil is bashing him? The other 3 are highly overrated.
[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You]LOL! He'd have more rings and less scoring titles if that was the case.[/QUOTE]
Well, you seem like someone who thinks they know a lot about Kobe Bryant. Im curious, what exactly do you think that Kobe could have done differently in the past few years since Shaq left that would have won him rings. Please explain.
I'm talking with Shaq. At least one more and maybe more if his ego hadn't been too big to continue playing with Shaq.
[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You]LOL! He'd have more rings and less scoring titles if that was the case.
that's not true. the two seasons he was scoring at the rate he was scoring at was when he was next to kwame brown and smush parker. i think what lebron james has done in cleveland is amazing, but even he hasn't had players that bad.
and i love shaq, but i think the reason la fell apart had 50% to do with kobe and 50% to do with o'neal. the first 3 championships, kobe did what was best for the team and deferred. by season 4, i think kobe had eclipsed shaq as the best player on the team but neither guy was willing to sacrafice being the number one option. well, you saw what happened after that.
[quote]the two seasons he was scoring at the rate he was scoring at was when he was next to kwame brown and smush parker. i think what lebron james has done in cleveland is amazing, but even he hasn't had players that bad. [/quote]
Wouldn't call those players bad. Role players yes. Not everyone can be Gasol, Odom and Bynum. If Kobe was the greatest player in the game as he's billed they would have done better. He has the best coach. You think the Bulls team after the first MJ retirement was better? Not even close but they won almost as many as the MJ teams and barely missed going to the finals.
[quote]i love shaq, but i think the reason la fell apart had 50% to do with kobe and 50% to do with o'neal. the first 3 championships, kobe did what was best for the team and deferred. by season 4, i think kobe had eclipsed shaq as the best player on the team[/quote]
No he wasn't. Kobe threw up brick after brick against Detroit. He passes to Shaq and they win their 4th. If Kobe had been patient his time as the # 1 guy was coming as we've seen Shaq decline rapidly since.
Kobe got his money and scoring records which seem to be more important to him.
[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You]I'm talking with Shaq. At least one more and maybe more if his ego hadn't been too big to continue playing with Shaq.[/QUOTE]
Just stop talking. You sound like a bitter 10 year old, *****ing about the same thing over and over again.
[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You]Wouldn't call those players bad. Role players yes. Not everyone can be Gasol, Odom and Bynum. If Kobe was the greatest player in the game as he's billed they would have done better. He has the best coach. You think the Bulls team after the first MJ retirement was better? Not even close but they won almost as many as the MJ teams and barely missed going to the finals.
No he wasn't. Kobe threw up brick after brick against Detroit. He passes to Shaq and they win their 4th. If Kobe had been patient his time as the # 1 guy was coming as we've seen Shaq decline rapidly since.
Kobe got his money and scoring records which seem to be more important to him.[/QUOTE]
you're obviously determined to hate him. i for one didn't like him until two seasons ago, when i thought he finally matured.
michael jordan is obviously the greatest player of all time. not only was he talented, he had the intangibles of a winner. but you can't deny that jordan's teammates thrived in tense moments and kobe's did not. that's not because of what jordan did, and it's not because of what kobe did not, it's because jordan's teammates happened to be some of the better role players we've seen in a while. pippen, cartwright, paxson (who made clutch shot after clutch shot in mj's first championship), rodman, horace grant, kerr, etc... those player's probably aren't considered as talented as gasol, odom, vujajic, farmar, fisher, etc... but you have to remember la was without bynum, and the names mentioned were younger and pippen, cartwright etc were veterans.
and the loss to detroit was partly kobe's fault, but i also blame payton and shaquille for not being able to defend the pick and roll. and you can't blame kobe for karl malone's injury, although you can blame him for malone not returning the following year haha.
[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You]Wouldn't call those players bad. Role players yes. Not everyone can be Gasol, Odom and Bynum.[B] If Kobe was the greatest player in the game as he's billed they would have done be[/B]tter. He has the best coach. You think the Bulls team after the first MJ retirement was better? Not even close but they won almost as many as the MJ teams and barely missed going to the finals.
No he wasn't. Kobe threw up brick after brick against Detroit. He passes to and scoring records which seem to be more important to him.[/QUOTE]
and it's not as if la performed terribly in the finals. they played bad, but still managed to make it a 6 game series. the celtics were just hungrier, more experienced, and clicking on all throttles.
[quote]you're obviously determined to hate him. i for one didn't like him until two seasons ago[/quote]
I don't hate anyone and I used to be a fan til he became a tool. He's not hands down the best player on the planet that's for sure.
[quote]you can't deny that jordan's teammates thrived in tense moments and kobe's did not. that's not because of what jordan did, and it's not because of what kobe did not, it's because jordan's teammates happened to be some of the better role players we've seen in a while.[/quote]
I guess? Great players make those around them better. Not something Kobe has done well enough.
[quote] pippen, cartwright, paxson (who made clutch shot after clutch shot in mj's first championship), rodman, horace grant, kerr, etc... [/quote]
I'll give you Pippen, Horace and the first year of Rodman but the others weren't any better than what Kobe's had.
[quote]you have to remember la was without bynum[/quote]
Yes they were and still had lots of talent.
[quote]the names mentioned were younger and pippen, cartwright etc were veterans[/quote]
Pippen was young in the beginning of their dynasty. Fisher isn't young.
[quote]loss to detroit was partly kobe's fault, but i also blame payton and shaquille for not being able to defend the pick and roll. and you can't blame kobe for karl malone's injury, although you can blame him for malone not returning the following year haha[/quote]
Kobe passes to Shaq they win. You can blame Karl's injury or whatever but Kobe does what won them 3 straight they win.
[quote] it's not as if la performed terribly in the finals. they played bad, but still managed to make it a 6 game series. the celtics were just hungrier, more experienced, and clicking on all throttles.[/quote]
And Kobe's not MJ as some would want to have you believe. You think the Celts would have been hungrier than MJ?
what's more selfish, chasing your woman down the street with a gun, or cheating on her?
[QUOTE=PMshooter]what's more selfish, chasing your woman down the street with a gun, or cheating on her?[/QUOTE]
USA: 10/10
CAN: 8.5/10
JAP: 9/10
UK: 9.5/10
[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You]I don't hate anyone and I used to be a fan til he became a tool. He's not hands down the best player on the planet that's for sure.
And Kobe's not MJ as some would want to have you believe. You think the Celts would have been hungrier than MJ?[/QUOTE]
i totally agree with you that kobe is not mj. and i also agree that d-wade's best year in the nba the kobe bryant of last season. i think kobe is past his prime physically, and it has affected his ability to get to the hole. the kobe bryant of the past two years prior to last year was the best player in the league.
[QUOTE=PMshooter]what's more selfish, chasing your woman down the street with a gun, or cheating on her?[/QUOTE]
haha good question. what i don't understand is that shaquille o'neal also cheated on his wife and people don't seem to hold a grudge against him. maybe it's because he's more friendly than kobe, but it's strange.
Shaq wasn't accused of rape for one thing.
[quote]the kobe bryant of the past two years prior to last year was the best player in the league[/quote]
He's never been as good as Wade or Lebron. Anyone that watched Wade in the Finals or Wade and Lebron in the olympics should have seen this.
[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You]
He's never been as good as Wade or Lebron. Anyone that watched Wade in the Finals or Wade and Lebron in the olympics should have seen this.[/QUOTE] hahaha NEVER? what an assclown..quit trying to hide your bias behind reasonable debate and just tell everyone why you dislike kobe and move on.... it's obvious no matter what anyone says it's just going to keep stoking the flames of your agenda.... so who's your guy? lebron probably?
just say "i like lebron more, i think he's better than kobe because" that's how you debate players..tossin out worthless slights like "Shaq wasn't accused of rape for one thing" is just stupid
I don't have a guy. Kobe just isn't the best player in the game as everyone would want to have you believe. The USA's defensive stopper who couldn't even slow down Fernandez or Navarro. LOL!
[quote]tossin out worthless slights like "Shaq wasn't accused of rape for one thing" is just stupid[/quote]
No it's not. There's a reason no one cares about Shaq or anyone else cheating on their wives it's because it wasn't a highly publicized rape case. Nor did we hear about Shaq buying his wife a big rock to make it up to her.
[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You]I don't have a guy. Kobe just isn't the best player in the game as everyone would want to have you believe. The USA's defensive stopper who couldn't even slow down Fernandez or Navarro. LOL!
No it's not. There's a reason no one cares about Shaq or anyone else cheating on their wives it's because it wasn't a highly publicized rape case. Nor did we hear about Shaq buying his wife a big rock to make it up to her.[/QUOTE]
Your hate for Kobe is epic.
i really dont think kobe is "hands down" or "easily" or "clearly" the best player in the world though. if anything lebron and kobe should be 1a or 1b or it's very closely 1-2, either way it should be debatable.
[QUOTE=EricForman]i really dont think kobe is "hands down" or "easily" or "clearly" the best player in the world though. if anything lebron and kobe should be 1a or 1b or it's very closely 1-2, either way it should be debatable.[/QUOTE]
you're absolutely right. my guess is that d-wade and lebron go to 1a 1b and kobe moves to 1c this year. he's getting older, and it's beginning to show. however, the kobe bryant of 2005-2006 and 2006-2007 was hands down the best in the league.
[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You]I don't have a guy. Kobe just isn't the best player in the game as everyone would want to have you believe. The USA's defensive stopper who couldn't even slow down Fernandez or Navarro. LOL!
No it's not. There's a reason no one cares about Shaq or anyone else cheating on their wives it's because it wasn't a highly publicized rape case. Nor did we hear about Shaq buying his wife a big rock to make it up to her.[/QUOTE]
if vanessa bryant had wanted to divorce kobe bryant, she could have. they never had a pre-nup, and all of kobe's assets therefore would have been all of her assets. 50-50 split. it's not kobe's fault he was [B]falsely[/B] accused of rape. and besides, shaq was cheating on his wife, and allegedly stalked her and sent her pictures of a woman being raped.
[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You]LOL! He'd have more rings and less scoring titles if that was the case.[/QUOTE]
The dude has 3 rings and 5 Finals trips before the age 0f 30. That's pretty damn impressive and it certainly suggests someone willing to play team basketball. The irony is that he could have had 4-5 scoring titles if he was as bad as you make him sound.
[quote]kobe bryant of 2005-2006 and 2006-2007 was hands down the best in the league[/quote]
He hasn't been better than Wade and Lebron since they were rooks.
[quote]The irony is that he could have had 4-5 scoring titles if he was as bad as you make him sound.[/quote]
Who said he was bad? A gunner? Yes. Not the best player in the world. yes.
Guys stop responding to this ediot.....he is just trying to seek attention....he is saying the same thing over and over
im a huge wade fan, but you sound like a rambling fool with an agenda. Wade was not better than Kobe Bryant his rookie year at all. Wade made immense progress his sophomore season, but still was not a better player.
the 05-06, he could be considered a top 5 player in the league, but Kobe still has the slight edge in overall skill level.
Wade; however, played a much more efficient basketball game and saw greater playoff success.
[quote]Wade was not better than Kobe Bryant his rookie year at all. [/quote]
Didn't say he was.
[quote]Wade; however, played a much more efficient basketball game and saw greater playoff success.[/quote]
I.E. better. Arguably the greatest performance in finals history. Anyone watching the olympics should have seen Kobe wasn't in the same league as Lebron and Wade.
[QUOTE=Jordan80]haha good question. what i don't understand is that shaquille o'neal also cheated on his wife and people don't seem to hold a grudge against him. maybe it's because he's more friendly than kobe, but it's strange.[/QUOTE]
Because we already hold a grudge against him for being a fat f*cking fat narcissistic f*ck.