The 00's = the death of defense in the NBA? No contact league?

[QUOTE=plowking]Jordan would score the same this era, or even a little less if he played now.

Zone forces players to shoot more jumpshots, and stats prove this. (if anyone can find that thread where George Gervin said he could score more then 40 points this era, as this is where I provided the stats).

Jordan would have to shoot more jumpshots, especially threes, which he was not very good at for the first part of his career. Thus his scoring would most likely decrease for the first portion of his career.

Due to this, his FG% would most likely decrease as well to around 46-51% each season.[/QUOTE]

Uh, are you really that dumb? Or do you just not watch the games? Teams run man to man 95% of the time in the NBA today. I can't believe you people. Do you even watch the games or know what to look for?

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du-C-TvHqzA[/url]
Yes, Jordan would struggle against that. lmfao!

I suggest you watch and read what Clyde Drexler said in this video too:
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aejHEkZpemA[/url]

[QUOTE=MaxFly]Incidentally, they year Jordan averaged 37+ points a game, the average NBA team gave up 109.9 points a game. The tempo of the game was much faster. In contrast, the average current NBA team has significantly slowed down the tempo of the game to the point where the average team only gives up 99.6 points a game... a little more than 10 fewer points scored per game, per team. My guess is that you're saying defense has deteriorated to such an extent that Jordan could average nearly 8 more points a game more inspite of the fact that the game has slowed down so considerably...[/QUOTE]

Team scoring and pace has nothing to do with individual scoring. Stars get their opportunities. Period. Chicago was always one of the slowest teams in the league anyhow. That's why Jordan was able to average 32.5 ppg in 1989 on a 97.0 pace factor team and 32.6 ppg in 1993 on a 92.5 pace factor team.

Jordan averaged 30.4 ppg/50% FG in 1996 at age 33 in a league where team averages (ppg/FG%) were roughly the same as they are today. Age 33. But keep trying to act like you have a point. :oldlol:

If I may......

There are many reasons as to why individual scoring is up, shooting percentages are down and why team's total points scored has decreased throughout the years.

I'ma keep it brief:

!. Players coming into the league at a younger age, which equals = unprepared

2. League change in rules throughout the decade that help perimeter scoring

3. Shot selection... players today fall in love with the 3 to easily. MJ even talked about why he didn't like to take the 3 as much. It becomes addictive

4. No real centers anymore

5. Too much one on one

6. Not enough team play on defense and offense

7. Today's players are worth much more money, so the league is far less physical in order to protect their investments

8. Teams don't stay together, so there's no growth for players or teams

9. Sounds like a cliche, but players due to no fault of their own, see the game more as a business than ever. And YES that has some effect on the court.

10. Not sure if I really have a ten, but what's a list without ten reasons right? Oh yeah..... players are ***** today.

And everything I mentioned above is related and it forms what we call the NBA today.

Most created by the league for legit reasons, but unfortunately many purists don't really like the changes.

That's it for now.

[QUOTE=OldSchoolBBall]Team scoring and pace has nothing to do with individual scoring. Stars get their opportunities. Period. Chicago was always one of the slowest teams in the league anyhow. That's why Jordan was able to average 32.5 ppg in 1989 on a 97.0 pace factor team and 32.6 ppg in 1993 on a 92.5 pace factor team.

Jordan averaged 30.4 ppg/50% FG in 1996 at age 33 in a league where team averages (ppg/FG%) were roughly the same as they are today. Age 33. But keep trying to act like you have a point. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

I don't understand why some keep saying, MJ was a product of a faster paced era.

Sure he averaged 27 shots one season, but so did Kobe!

We see players today taking 30 shots with ease often. Hell... KObe took 30 in like 35 minutes I believe. And he did so effortlessly, so how related is it to the fast pace?

LIke somebody else mentioned, there was more ball movement, so the notion that MJ had more possessions is misleading. Wade, Bron and Kobe have the same amount of possessions than MJ did.

Also, not to play captain save a Bruce, but he's right.

The vids that he, myself and others make, are made as a RESPONSE to the misinformation and defamation of not just MJ but past eras.

If we seem overzealous with our vids or our presentation, too bad. But one cannot criticize THE FACTS presented.

And I agree, anybody can edit videos to prove a point, but we (for the vast majority of the time) don't do that. We give it to ya'll like pure coke (raw and uncut).

The lies that are spread online must be corrected. YES they MUST be corrected, because if you care about the sport, you won't let it get hijacked by a few morons. They corrupt and influence not just future generations, but they even influence so called modern "sportswriters." They are literally re-writing history to fit their agenda and tens of thousands are believing them.

And I'm not gonna sugar coat a damn thing.

Its mainly (estimate 97% of them for sure) KOBE STANS.

Again if I may..... I differentiate between Kobe "fans" and Kobe "stans" and STANS are the worst type of so called fans there is.

[QUOTE=juju151111]Stick to defending Wade because thats the only time you make sense.[/QUOTE]

Learn something about basketball.

The OP and yourself are ridiculously dense if you believe Jordan would be scoring 40 points per game this era.

There is hardly any chance. He would be a 30-37ppg scorer in his prime just like he was in his era. His numbers wouldn't change that much apart from slightly worse shooting.

[QUOTE=plowking]Learn something about basketball.

The OP and yourself are ridiculously dense if you believe Jordan would be scoring 40 points per game this era.

There is hardly any chance. He would be a 30-37ppg scorer in his prime just like he was in his era. His numbers wouldn't change that much apart from slightly worse shooting.[/QUOTE]

That's absolutely ridiculous
I mean absolutely ridiculous and UNFOUNDEDLY RETARDED!

Jordan averaged 41 points per game in the NBA finals, averaged over 40 points per game for half of an entire season, averaged over 40 points per game in the playoffs for an entire playoff run. You have got to be out of your everloving mind to think his shooting % would be lower today when the man averaged over 55% shooting percentage on half a season and ended up at 54%. Jordan was in the top 10 in the NBA for field goal percentage in his prime, INCLUDING THE BIGS.

See, unlike your opinion, mine MATTERS because I grew up watching Jordan and I remember in his prime it seemed like he would make 2 out of every 3 shots. He destroyed teams with the mid-range jumper coming off screens. Rip Hamilton destroys teams with the mid-range jumper coming off screens.

LeBron James is shooting nearly 50% with a much less effective jumper than MJ had.

I'll say that again, LeBron James is shooting nearly 50% with a MUCH LESS EFFECTIVE JUMPER THAN MJ HAD.

WHY IN THE HELL DO PEOPLE POST OPINIONS WITHOUT KNOWING WHAT THE HELL THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT? :wtf:

[QUOTE=bruceblitz]That's absolutely ridiculous
I mean absolutely ridiculous and UNFOUNDEDLY RETARDED!

Jordan averaged 41 points per game in the NBA finals, averaged over 40 points per game for half of an entire season, averaged over 40 points per game in the playoffs for an entire playoff run. You have got to be out of your everloving mind to think his shooting % would be lower today when the man averaged over 55% shooting percentage on half a season and ended up at 54%. Jordan was in the top 10 in the NBA for field goal percentage in his prime, INCLUDING THE BIGS.

See, unlike your opinion, mine MATTERS because I grew up watching Jordan and I remember in his prime it seemed like he would make 2 out of every 3 shots. He destroyed teams with the mid-range jumper coming off screens. Rip Hamilton destroys teams with the mid-range jumper coming off screens.

LeBron James is shooting nearly 50% with a much less effective jumper than MJ had.

I'll say that again, LeBron James is shooting nearly 50% with a MUCH LESS EFFECTIVE JUMPER THAN MJ HAD.

WHY IN THE HELL DO PEOPLE POST OPINIONS WITHOUT KNOWING WHAT THE HELL THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT? :wtf:[/QUOTE]

And just to piggy back of this post.....

Wade shoots above 45% (don't feel like looking up his stats) and he only plays from ONE SIDE OF THE FLOOR.

Wade plays almost exclusively on the left side and even then he's limited.

Jordan was an absolutely great player and has a very strong case for GOAT, but i agree with fatal9 and stephanie that his myth has reached absurd standards as has the myth of the current era's inferior defense. Every sport improves, the players simply get better. Basketball is no exeption. Would Jordan be the best player in the game today? Probably, but he would not be head and shoulders above the rest and he would not be putting up better stats than he was in the 80s and 90s.

[QUOTE=easydoesit]Jordan was an absolutely great player and has a very strong case for GOAT, but i agree with fatal9 and stephanie that his myth has reached absurd standards as has the myth of the current era's inferior defense. Every sport improves, the players simply get better. Basketball is no exeption. Would Jordan be the best player in the game today? Probably, but he would not be head and shoulders above the rest and he would not be putting up better stats than he was in the 80s and 90s.[/QUOTE]

Cool

But you do know that at the age of 40 he was putting up stats equaled or better than some of today's so called "superstars" which were 15 years younger than him, right?

And I would usually agree with you, in regards that everything has to naturally evolve (improve). But sadly, that isn't the case in the NBA.

Yes I agree, some aspects have improved, but unfortunately many aspects have actually "deteriorated."

For the reasons I've stated in this and the other Bruce thread.

Its an entire system wide and philosophy downward spiral that has taken place over the last dozen seasons or so.

Rule changes, younger players, no real sense of team worth, etc.etc.

So while the avg player has evolved into stronger, faster, bigger and better athletes (even that's somewhat debatable), other aspects have fallen.

I guess its the world self correcting itself trying to keep things balanced. The ying and the yang, the positive and the negative, the ren to the stimpy, the Balki to Larry, you get the hint.

[QUOTE=plowking]

Due to this, his FG% would most likely decrease as well to around 46-51% each season.[/QUOTE]

LMAO @ this. :oldlol: Jordan was a far better scorer than James or Wade, who are shooting like 48-50%, and who have averaged ~30 ppg on 48% in the past. LOL @ thinking Jordan shoots 46% in this era. Maybe if he averages like 37.5 ppg. But at 31-33.5 ppg he's going to be at 49.5-51.5% shooting.

What would Lebron be shooting if he shot even 40% on his 2-point jumpers? Something like 52%, I'd wager (I may even do the math later; you can work this out from 82games.com numbers). Jordan shot a lot better than 40% on his midrange jumpers while being an equally good penetrator and finisher. He's shooting 51% today without a problem. Don't kid yourself.

:oldlol: Always makes me laugh how some people have truely forgotten how good Michael Jordan actually was.

[QUOTE=andgar923]Cool

But you do know that at the age of 40 he was putting up stats equaled or better than some of today's so called "superstars" which were 15 years younger than him, right?

And I would usually agree with you, in regards that everything has to naturally evolve (improve). But sadly, that isn't the case in the NBA.

Yes I agree, some aspects have improved, but unfortunately many aspects have actually "deteriorated."

For the reasons I've stated in this and the other Bruce thread.

Its an entire system wide and philosophy downward spiral that has taken place over the last dozen seasons or so.

Rule changes, younger players, no real sense of team worth, etc.etc.

So while the avg player has evolved into stronger, faster, bigger and better athletes (even that's somewhat debatable), other aspects have fallen.

I guess its the world self correcting itself trying to keep things balanced. The ying and the yang, the positive and the negative, the ren to the stimpy, the Balki to Larry, you get the hint.[/QUOTE]

He may score a lot at forty, but it doesn't mean jack if u can't win. Anyone can score with more shots, but can the score when it matters, like winning?

3 second defensive rule, in combination with the defensive restricted zone in the paint, means that the post defender is extremely limited. If his man spreads out, he has to follow in 3 seconds. This opens up the paint for the perimeter player looking to penetrate, because he doesn't always have to worry about the paint defender. Even when he can rotate back in time, if he doesn't establish perfect position (aka feet set, and outside the restricted line), then it's an AUTOMATIC call for the offensive player.

Sure, the implementation of the zone can disrupt some offense for a short time, but it can be beaten. The way the paint players are restricted, as well as the softer contact being called, means the perimeter players have an easier time putting up points, either from scoring or getting to the FT line.

For these reasons, MJ would DESTROY the league today. He would play the Wade role, by constantly attacking the rim and getting to the line, or if he was forced to be a jumpshooter like Kobe was in the finals last year, he would pick apart teams because of his more consistent jumpshot (especially off the dribble on pull ups and creating using his back to the basket).

[QUOTE=Showtime]3 second defensive rule, in combination with the defensive restricted zone in the paint, means that the post defender is extremely limited. If his man spreads out, he has to follow in 3 seconds. This opens up the paint for the perimeter player looking to penetrate, because he doesn't always have to worry about the paint defender. Even when he can rotate back in time, if he doesn't establish perfect position (aka feet set, and outside the restricted line), then it's an AUTOMATIC call for the offensive player.

Sure, the implementation of the zone can disrupt some offense for a short time, but it can be beaten. The way the paint players are restricted, as well as the softer contact being called, means the perimeter players have an easier time putting up points, either from scoring or getting to the FT line.

For these reasons, MJ would DESTROY the league today. He would play the Wade role, by constantly attacking the rim and getting to the line, or if he was forced to be a jumpshooter like Kobe was in the finals last year, he would pick apart teams because of his more consistent jumpshot (especially off the dribble on pull ups and creating using his back to the basket).[/QUOTE]

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[QUOTE][QUOTE=amfirst]He may score a lot at forty, but it doesn't mean jack if u can't win. Anyone can score with more shots, but can the score when it matters, like winning?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE][B][COLOR="Red"]Jordan was only one of two players to average more than 25 points, 5 assists, and 5 rebounds as he led the Wizards to a 26

2005-present: zone, handchecking not allowed, but selectively enforced
2001-2004: Handchecking+Zone defense
90s : Isolation

[IMG]http://images2.sina.com/english/sports/2009/0114/U138P200T1D211730F8DT20090114193007.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r87/kvartuc/Celtics.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0aIF7WH8op0Rf/610x.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/02bubhGdxKd3H/340x.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.taipeitimes.com/images/2008/05/18/P20-080518-34.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://nbcsportsmedia1.msnbc.com/j/apmegasports/200806122326843902921-pf.widec.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/6836/kobereversedunk.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-01/08/xin_00201060816581712411813.jpg[/IMG]

^ haha how many times is Albroz going to have his argument debunked?

Myth 1: Zone + Handcheck

Debunk: Zone wasn't widely used when first allowed. At the time, many coaches didn't implement it, some didn't coach it well or like to use it, and players weren't accustomed to using it. The teams that DID use it didn't use it as their primary defense, and like a press defense, it was used sparingly in short durations to disrupt an offense. Saying a player played in the "zone era" when man to man is still the most popular and widely used defense means this myth is total BS.

Myth 2: Zone > M2M

Debunk: Zone defense is different, not superior to man. Zone has players guard areas of the court, and an effective zone can limit penetration by cutting off the lanes. This can be countered, however, by ball movement and player positioning. If it's a sloppy zone, then it's even easier. Zone isn't perfect, and can be exploited with ball movement, player positioning, and outside shooting.

Nate Robinson would have dominated Jordan. On both ends. And in dunk contests.

[QUOTE=BirdOverrated]
duh
uh, I'm stupid.
I like to discredit anything not named Kobe
[/QUOTE]

Jordan vs "Isolation"
[IMG]http://cdn.newsone.blackplanet.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/michael_jordan1.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.wallpaperbase.com/wallpapers/celebsm/michaeljordan/michael_jordan_1.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.geocities.com/NBA_Superstars2002/images/Michael_Jordan52.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.iconsportsmedia.com/image_dir/album25954/md_9590108%20%20Michael%20Jordan%20Bulls.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.michael-jordan-23.com/uploads/pics/michael-jordan-reverse-layup.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.mm52.com/occidentalidols/michael_jordan/michael_jordan_069.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.customauthenticjerseys.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/michael-jordan.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/multimedia/photo_gallery/0705/gallery.nba.playoff.comebacks/images/1993.bulls.jordan.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.prweb.com/prfiles/2008/12/30/174044/MichaelJordanSI1984.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q307/Willser94/fadeaway45jersey.jpg[/IMG]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du-C-TvHqzA[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K-qGWkiKvQ[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLv2F33snCE[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqgIT3hLInY[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUkuQQxh-pc[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5auPSMaD3vE[/url]

[QUOTE=Showtime]^ haha how many times is Albroz going to have his argument debunked?

[/QUOTE]

Forgive Alborz, he's a homosexual who likes to be dominated.
:D

[QUOTE=bruceblitz]The death of defense?
by Roland Lazenby / October 20, 2006

[QUOTE=BirdOverrated]2005-present: zone, handchecking not allowed, but selectively enforced
2001-2004: Handchecking+Zone defense
90s : Isolation

[IMG]http://images2.sina.com/english/sports/2009/0114/U138P200T1D211730F8DT20090114193007.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r87/kvartuc/Celtics.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0aIF7WH8op0Rf/610x.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/02bubhGdxKd3H/340x.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.taipeitimes.com/images/2008/05/18/P20-080518-34.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://nbcsportsmedia1.msnbc.com/j/apmegasports/200806122326843902921-pf.widec.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/6836/kobereversedunk.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

This is what MJ would've done to those defenders:

[IMG]http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh133/andgar923/el_coxxx_2.gif?t=1235283227[/IMG]

[QUOTE=andgar923]This is what MJ would've done to those defenders:

[IMG]http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh133/andgar923/el_coxxx_2.gif?t=1235283227[/IMG][/QUOTE]


And this is what Kobe would do those weak 90s defenders:

[IMG]http://myspace-183.vo.llnwd.net/01431/38/17/1431477183_l.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=BirdOverrated]
duh
uh, I'm stupid.
I like to discredit anything not named Kobe
[/QUOTE]

Jordan vs "Isolation"
[IMG]http://cdn.newsone.blackplanet.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/michael_jordan1.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.wallpaperbase.com/wallpapers/celebsm/michaeljordan/michael_jordan_1.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.geocities.com/NBA_Superstars2002/images/Michael_Jordan52.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.iconsportsmedia.com/image_dir/album25954/md_9590108%20%20Michael%20Jordan%20Bulls.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.michael-jordan-23.com/uploads/pics/michael-jordan-reverse-layup.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.mm52.com/occidentalidols/michael_jordan/michael_jordan_069.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.customauthenticjerseys.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/michael-jordan.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/multimedia/photo_gallery/0705/gallery.nba.playoff.comebacks/images/1993.bulls.jordan.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.prweb.com/prfiles/2008/12/30/174044/MichaelJordanSI1984.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q307/Willser94/fadeaway45jersey.jpg[/IMG]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du-C-TvHqzA[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K-qGWkiKvQ[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLv2F33snCE[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqgIT3hLInY[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUkuQQxh-pc[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5auPSMaD3vE[/url]

SMH at people who use handpicked pics and youtube videos to make their argument on the defenses. You actually aren't serious right?

Anyways, look no further than the stats. Defensive rating which is a fairly accurate measure of how good a teams defense is (almost always the best defensive team has the best D rating, eg. Celtics, Spurs, Pistons in the last decade) shows defenses have been better from 2000 onward.

[QUOTE=Fatal9]SMH at people who use handpicked pics and youtube videos to make their argument on the defenses. You actually aren't serious right?

Anyways, look no further than the stats. Defensive rating which is a fairly accurate measure of how good a teams defense is (almost always the best defensive team has the best D rating, eg. Celtics, Spurs, Pistons in the last decade) shows defenses have been better from 2000 onward.[/QUOTE]

You must've missed my post addressing this.

Those stats are highly misleading.

[QUOTE=Fatal9]SMH at people who use handpicked pics and youtube videos to make their argument on the defenses. You actually aren't serious right?

Anyways, look no further than the stats. Defensive rating which is a fairly accurate measure of how good a teams defense is (almost always the best defensive team has the best D rating, eg. Celtics, Spurs, Pistons in the last decade) shows defenses have been better from 2000 onward.[/QUOTE]


Exactly. 2003 Spurs, 2004 Pistons, 2008 Celtics - among the cream of the crop.

Is BirdOverrated really Alborz? I thought his posts had a familiar ring to them. Sad that his Kb42pah persona was so badly ripped apart and discredited that he had to change monickers. I think people empower him by answering his recycled (and debunked many times over) b.s.

But I just wanted to address his claim of 'greatest defensive era' that ended in '04. First of all, as many have stated, no teams have ever used zone D for more than a handful of possessions except the Mavs from earlier this decade, and to disastrous effect. But more importantly, handchecking as players of Jordan's era was all but dead by '01. From NBA.com (rule change history):

'97-'98

Can't wait to see what b.s. excuse Alborz has for me...

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K-qGWkiKvQ[/url]

LOL @ any simpleton who believes that defensive stats (average team ppg/FG%) in the '99-'04 era or until the present are SOLELY due to better defense. :oldlol: You can really tell who the dullards are by seeing who believes that.

[QUOTE=OldSchoolBBall]LOL @ any simpleton who believes that defensive stats (average team ppg/FG%) in the '99-'04 era or until the present are SOLELY due to better defense. :oldlol: You can really tell who the dullards are by seeing who believes that.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, especially since team PPG were across the board much lower than they are/were in the '00s.

[QUOTE=Fatal9]SMH at people who use handpicked pics and youtube videos to make their argument on the defenses. You actually aren't serious right?

Anyways, look no further than the stats. Defensive rating which is a fairly accurate measure of how good a teams defense is (almost always the best defensive team has the best D rating, eg. Celtics, Spurs, Pistons in the last decade) shows defenses have been better from 2000 onward.[/QUOTE]
QFT

[QUOTE=Showtime]^ haha how many times is Albroz going to have his argument debunked?

Myth 1: Zone + Handcheck

Debunk: Zone wasn't widely used when first allowed. At the time, many coaches didn't implement it, some didn't coach it well or like to use it, and players weren't accustomed to using it. The teams that DID use it didn't use it as their primary defense, and like a press defense, it was used sparingly in short durations to disrupt an offense. Saying a player played in the "zone era" when man to man is still the most popular and widely used defense means this myth is total BS.

Myth 2: Zone > M2M

Debunk: Zone defense is different, not superior to man. Zone has players guard areas of the court, and an effective zone can limit penetration by cutting off the lanes. This can be countered, however, by ball movement and player positioning. If it's a sloppy zone, then it's even easier. Zone isn't perfect, and can be exploited with ball movement, player positioning, and outside shooting.[/QUOTE]
wait a second thats pah?? This explains a lot.

Alborz is going to love this. Turns out, as I said before, Kobe's piss poor performance in the '04 Finals facilitated the death knell for physical play on the perimeter:

About his legendary performance (From ESPN article 'Ranking the 10 worst Finals Performances, John Hollinger June 12, 2008)

[INDENT][I][B]Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers, 2004
Lakers vs. Pistons -- Bryant's PER 14.2[/B]
"With his feud against Shaq escalating and the series getting away from the Lakers, Bryant began taking whatever shot struck him. Mostly, they struck the rim -- he shot 38.1 percent and had nearly as many turnovers (18) as assists (22) as Detroit romped in five games."

[/I][/INDENT]

During the series, Mav's owner Mark Cuban made some interesting observations about the defensive play of the Pistons (handchecking as Jordan era players new it was dead, but minimal/temporary contact was still sometimes allowed) and the 'advantage' they had over offensive perimeter players and decided a change was necesary to tip the scales in the other direction...

From his Blog Maverick weblog, Mark Cuban's article 'If It

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]Alborz is going to love this. Turns out, as I said before, Kobe's piss poor performance in the '04 Finals facilitated the death knell for physical play on the perimeter:

About his legendary performance (From ESPN article 'Ranking the 10 worst Finals Performances, John Hollinger June 12, 2008)

[INDENT][I][B]Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers, 2004
Lakers vs. Pistons -- Bryant's PER 14.2[/B]
"With his feud against Shaq escalating and the series getting away from the Lakers, Bryant began taking whatever shot struck him. Mostly, they struck the rim -- he shot 38.1 percent and had nearly as many turnovers (18) as assists (22) as Detroit romped in five games."

[/I][/INDENT]

During the series, Mav's owner Mark Cuban made some interesting observations about the defensive play of the Pistons (handchecking as Jordan era players new it was dead, but minimal/temporary contact was still sometimes allowed) and the 'advantage' they had over offensive perimeter players and decided a change was necesary to tip the scales in the other direction...

From his Blog Maverick weblog, Mark Cuban's article 'If It

anyone who thinks the defense of today is just as good or better than what Jordan had to deal with clearly has zero idea what they are talking about and are too damn young to have seen and understood the game then.

anyone who thinks MJ wouldnt have a field day with the way the rules are called now is flat out ignorant of the game and the changes it has gone through.

[QUOTE=kentatm]anyone who thinks the defense of today is just as good or better than what Jordan had to deal with clearly has zero idea what they are talking about and are too damn young to have seen and understood the game then.

anyone who thinks MJ wouldnt have a field day with the way the rules are called now is flat out ignorant of the game and the changes it has gone through.[/QUOTE]

That's why certain people are tasked wth educating the misinformed/ignorant youth.

Man how many threads is this guy gonna make on the same subject??? :confusedshrug::confusedshrug:

[SIZE=7][B]WE GET IT!!!! JORDAN FACED TOUGHER DEFENSE THAN KOBE!!! HOW MANY FRIGGIN THREADS ARE YOU GONNA MAKE ABOUT IT? [/B][/SIZE]:banghead::banghead:

I've watched some mid 90's bulls games lately and everybody who thinks that defense wasn't more physical back then is wrong. period.