Prime Riddick Bowe vs. 1990's Mike Tyson

[QUOTE=Smokee]Ya'll are ****ing retarded :rolleyes:

Tyson in his prime would've ****ed Bowe up. Arguably Ali. Yeah i said it. So many retards love to reinvent history but Bowe was nowhere near the level of Tyson in his prime. Tyson WAS boxing back then. A whole era. He even transcended the sport to non boxing fans watching him.

Say what you want about the competition, but i'll bet you they all would've held their own today in the heavyweight division. Its just that Tyson made people look bad because they were scared of him once he built up his rep. It was crazy how feared Tyson was within boxing at one point where boxers would choke from fear of getting hit. Never seen anything like that in boxing.[/QUOTE]
Tyson in his prime would have gotten the piss beat out of him by Holyfeild...

oh wait, that pretty much happened...

[QUOTE=~primetime~]Tyson in his prime would have gotten the piss beat out of him by Holyfeild...

oh wait, that pretty much happened...[/QUOTE]


How many times do people have to tell you that was when Tyson got stupid and crazy, painted his face, was biting off ears, bought a tiger, post rape ****ed up kid. That isn't Tyson in his prime.

This argument is as retarded as the Kobe comparisons to MJ :banghead:

the first time Holyfeild and Tyson fought Evander was [B][I][SIZE="3"]34 YEARS OLD!!![/SIZE][/I][/B]

Tyson had already been through a few fights post jail, knocking out tomato cans like he did before he was in jail, and he was what, the ripe old age of 28 at the time he first fought Evander?



I find it hard to belive things would have been any different and it is all speculation anyway...

and even with speculation, all the eveidence points to Evander beating his ass in the ring anyway...there is much more reason to assume Evander would have won pre-jail than Tyson...

Tyson had everything a boxer would want at one point. Legendary trainer, blinding speed, animal ferocity, multiple combinations, advanced techniques, deadly power, impeccable defense and ultimate confidence. Unbeatable. It's sad he lacked the discipline and desire to maintain those things without somebody helping him. He'd KO anyone from any era on any given night.

[QUOTE=iamgine]Tyson had everything a boxer would want at one point. [/QUOTE]
Nope... He always lacked intelligence... Inside and out of the ring. He also always lacked discipline... Inside and outside the ring. Cus let him get away with everything just short of murder.

Tyson is/always was a mental midget and that is a serious pitfall for any fighter. Boxing is about more than physical tools. It is called the sweet science for a reason.

An old Holyfield would have owned any version of Tyson. The argument that Tyson's prime spanned from 18-20 years of age is laughable at best. People refuse to accept that he fought NO ONE during his short reign at the top of the division.

It is an interesting coincidence that Tyson suddenly 'got old' when he started finally fighting guys that could match his skills in the ring.

...the most overrated athlete of all-time and it isn't even close. People just don't want to accept it.

[QUOTE=Smokee]This argument is as retarded as the Kobe comparisons to MJ :banghead:[/QUOTE]
After reading your posts in this thread, it is an absolute oxymoron to be calling anyone else 'retarded.' Your posts lack any semblance of historical perspective or intelligence, for that matter.

[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]Nope... He always lacked intelligence... Inside and out of the ring. He also always lacked discipline... Inside and outside the ring. Cus let him get away with everything just short of murder.

Tyson is/always was a mental midget and that is a serious pitfall for any fighter. Boxing is about more than physical tools. It is called the sweet science for a reason.

An old Holyfield would have owned any version of Tyson. The argument that Tyson's prime spanned from 18-20 years of age is laughable at best. People refuse to accept that he fought NO ONE during his short reign at the top of the division.

It is an interesting coincidence that Tyson suddenly 'got old' when he started finally fighting guys that could match his skills in the ring.

...the most overrated athlete of all-time and it isn't even close. People just don't want to accept it.[/QUOTE]

he lacked endurance too...

take him past the 6th round and it was Mike that was the tomato can...

[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]Nope... He always lacked intelligence... Inside and out of the ring. He also always lacked discipline... Inside and outside the ring. Cus let him get away with everything just short of murder.

Tyson is/always was a mental midget and that is a serious pitfall for any fighter. Boxing is about more than physical tools. It is called the sweet science for a reason.

An old Holyfield would have owned any version of Tyson. The argument that Tyson's prime spanned from 18-20 years of age is laughable at best. People refuse to accept that he fought NO ONE during his short reign at the top of the division.

It is an interesting coincidence that Tyson suddenly 'got old' when he started finally fighting guys that could match his skills in the ring.

...the most overrated athlete of all-time and it isn't even close. People just don't want to accept it.[/QUOTE]


thats all reinvented hindsight BS. Anyone alive back then following it could clearly see the downward spiral during which every fight you idiots are pretending to talk about were clearly a part of. y'all need to stop reinventing this BS in your heads and terrible memories.

[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]After reading your posts in this thread, it is an absolute oxymoron to be calling anyone else 'retarded.' Your posts lack any semblance of historical perspective or intelligence, for that matter.[/QUOTE]


cominig from the boxing purist fggt that can't accept anythinig but jab and move fighters, i think you should stfu.

lmao @ Holyfield better than Tyson in his prime. You're a dumbass and probably 6 yrs old and wasn't even alive back then.

[QUOTE=Smokee]thats all reinvented hindsight BS. Anyone alive back then following it could clearly see the downward spiral during which every fight you idiots are pretending to talk about were clearly a part of. y'all need to stop reinventing this BS in your heads and terrible memories.[/QUOTE]
:oldlol:

Yes... Because you've shown so much boxing knowledge and you've broken down Tyson's early career so well. You've done nothing but repeat the same phrases over and over.

Why don't you explain to me how the guy that beat the hell out of Mike Jameson and Jesse Furguson was completely different than the guy that beat the hell out of Frank Bruno and Bruce Seldon. Let's hear your breakdown Mr. Expert.

[QUOTE=Smokee]cominig from the boxing purist fggt that can't accept anythinig but jab and move fighters, i think you should stfu.

lmao @ Holyfield better than Tyson in his prime. You're a dumbass and probably 6 yrs old and wasn't even alive back then.[/QUOTE]
I was out of high school...

as far as fighting technique Tyson looked no different at all than he did pre-jail...

in fact, he looked much more cut and in shape coming out of jail:

[IMG]http://www.hurricanepetermcneeley.com/Images/Weighin.JPG[/IMG]


the only thing that I will admitt that did change for Tyson coming out was his attitude and mentality...

but in the ring, he looked no different to me...

he looked like the exact same Tyson that lost to Douglas...

[IMG]http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2007/writers/richard_obrien/07/24/cheating.boxing/t1-tyson.holyfield.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00689/sport-graphics-2008_689936a.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Smokee]cominig from the boxing purist fggt that can't accept anythinig but jab and move fighters, i think you should stfu.

lmao @ Holyfield better than Tyson in his prime. You're a dumbass and probably 6 yrs old and wasn't even alive back then.[/QUOTE]
I've forgotten far more about boxing than you'll ever know, dipsh!t.

[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]:oldlol:

Yes... Because you've shown so much boxing knowledge and you've broken down Tyson's early career so well. You've done nothing but repeat the same phrases over and over.

Why don't you explain to me how the guy that beat the hell out of Mike Jameson and Jesse Furguson was completely different than the guy that beat the hell out of Frank Bruno and Bruce Seldon. Let's hear your breakdown Mr. Expert.[/QUOTE]



Wtf are you talking about? Were you or weren't you alive back then and into boxing? Or are you googling this ****? Its hard to believe if you were that you don't even know the time line of Tyson's downward spiral because it was front page news throughout it all, and i have no clue why the hell you keep bringing up **** that was clearly during his downside as his prime.

Its just common sense if you were into boxing at all back then but thats why arguing this is just as stupid as trying to argue MJ vs Kobe because its pointless, you can't win with people who didn't see it. Its just a shame how you alzheimer retards reinvent reality :ohwell:

[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]I've forgotten far more about boxing than you'll ever know, dipsh!t.[/QUOTE]


I knew you were a nerd-ass purist fggt. People like you see things one sided and having to fit a mold to be good so you end up with the retard perspective you have. You can't give credit where credit is due because they don't fit it.

You know i'm right. Lots of *****es like you for every sport :violin:

[QUOTE=~primetime~]I was out of high school...

as far as fighting technique Tyson looked no different at all than he did pre-jail...

in fact, he looked much more cut and in shape coming out of jail:

[IMG]http://www.hurricanepetermcneeley.com/Images/Weighin.JPG[/IMG]


the only thing that I will admitt that did change for Tyson coming out was his attitude and mentality...

but in the ring, he looked no different to me...

he looked like the exact same Tyson that lost to Douglas...

[IMG]http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2007/writers/richard_obrien/07/24/cheating.boxing/t1-tyson.holyfield.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00689/sport-graphics-2008_689936a.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]


Thats what i said earlier. He was still fit and if anyting looked stockier, but everyone knew his psyche wasn't there, and back then everyone pinned it on Rooney controlling him vs Don King giving him whatever he wanted. And even then he was doing **** like headbutts, biting off ears, it was obvious he was ****ed up in the head. Boxers don't do **** like that, especially ones that have been through the amount of fights he's had. If anything prison might've ****ed him up more, and he hired those muslim jail guys to manage him or some **** if i remember right :lol: Either way Tyson during that time was completely different than the prime one, and its too bad people reinvent because they forget all of the things that happened in and outside of boxing that made the spiral obvious.

Sure Tyson was a mental midget, lacked intelligence, lacked confidence, lacked any mental capacity, weak, etc etc. That's why you have people like Cus around him to help him in that area. With his trainer, he was very smart, disciplined and had the ultimate confidence in himself. Without, he was a weak man, back to being a ghetto kid, easily exposed.

Legendary trainer, blinding speed, animal ferocity, multiple combinations, advanced techniques, deadly power, impeccable defense and ultimate confidence. Unbeatable. Tyson will KO anyone from any era on any given night.

ok RBA got me.. :(

mike tyson IS over-rated..

but can we atleast agree that tyson is one of the fastest, strongest, most skilled heavyweight ever? i'm not a boxing expert, but i'm familiar with the big names. i don't think i've ever seen a heavyweight move like that. ali was fast, but tyson was a different kinda fast. he was quick on his feet, slipped under jabs, threw the hook to the body and finished with an uppercut. i've never seen punches landed with such power and accuracy like that..

if you have, link me :D

[QUOTE]as far as fighting technique Tyson looked no different at all than he did pre-jail...[/QUOTE]

someone aware him.. :oldlol:

[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]The Top 10-15 of what, btw? Please tell me you are not talking about pound-for-pound, all-time. Even if you are talking about Top 10-15 heavyweights all-time, that is ridiculous.

He should not be rated in front of Lennox Lewis, Evander Holyfield, or Riddick Bowe... And those are just guys that were in his own f#cking era.[/QUOTE]

Everyone rates him over Bowe. And I was talking about Heavyweights. You think he was the same fighter after the late 80s, most do not. And I don't agree that he dominated every good fighter he faced if he was better than them. I saw no domination of Razor Ruddock among several others. That theory doesn't fly.

What also doesn't fly is talking about what the majority of fans thought. I'm not talking about fans, I'm talking about people who know boxing.

[QUOTE=halffttime]ok RBA got me.. :(

mike tyson IS over-rated..

but can we atleast agree that tyson is one of the fastest, strongest, most skilled heavyweight ever? i'm not a boxing expert, but i'm familiar with the big names. i don't think i've ever seen a heavyweight move like that. ali was fast, but tyson was a different kinda fast. he was quick on his feet, slipped under jabs, threw the hook to the body and finished with an uppercut. i've never seen punches landed with such power and accuracy like that..

if you have, link me :D[/QUOTE]
Tyson did have freakish athleticism, but not the GOAT athleticism in HW history. In fact, there was a boxer that very few casual boxing fans have even seen that may have been the most physically skilled HW that I have ever seen.

His name was Ike Ibeabuchi. He gave David Tua his first loss in one of the greatest heavyweight fights of all-time. He also KOed Chris Byrd in brutal fashion. Unfortunately, he was batsh!t insane and ended up holding a prostitute hostage because he thought that she was the devil.

He is still in jail. His boxing career ended with an undefeated record and he was on the verge of taking over the division when he was arrested.

Ibeabuchi was like a Lennox Lewis/Mike Tyson hybrid with the chin of Ali.

Here he is brutally brutalizing [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7AZTLHFx7o"]Chris Byrd[/URL] with an uppercut/hook punch that became known as Ibeabuchi's 'hookercut.'

Here is a [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQStB2IRWOo"]highlight package[/URL] of his fight against Tua. It is my personal opinion that Tua was never the same after this fight. Ibeabuchi took everything that Tua could throw and didn't even flinch. He hit Tua with some absolutely brutal combinations. Btw, this highlight package consists of mainly Tua highlights. There were far more Ike highlights in the fight that aren't shown, but this shows the kind of chin that Ike had.

I think the whole fight is on youtube. If you get some time, watch it.

The sports world really missed out when Ibeabuchi went nuts. I believe that he would have beaten Lennox Lewis... And I hold Lewis in very high regard. Ike had the physical tools to be one of the best heavyweights of all-time. Hell... I think Tua may have beaten Lewis had he not run into Ibeabuchi first. Tua was a great, great fighter that literally had years taken off of his career in that one fight.

[url]http://www.boxingdaily.co.uk/mike-tyson-goes-from-bad-to-worse/[/url]

[QUOTE=Gundress]

What also doesn't fly is talking about what the majority of fans thought. I'm not talking about fans, I'm talking about people who know boxing.[/QUOTE]


Most people who know boxing will say Tyson is one of the top fighters ever. Even then thats just an opinion since i think the supposed know-it-alls for every sport never know as much as some people want to always give them credit for since they see the same thigns as you. But whatever. Just google it and you'll see countless more opinions, even by the 'experts' praising Tyson in his prime vs his obvious fall off...

and Bowe is nowhere to be mentioned :rolleyes:

It's not worth it to argue with Tyson ******gers. They believe he could KO Godzilla. They grew up idolizing him, so now they have a warped perception of him. They sweep away all his flaws and criticisms with various excuses and then they blow all of his positives way out of proportion until he becomes Superman. No wait, they think he'd KO Superman in the 2nd round.

[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]Nope... He always lacked intelligence... Inside and out of the ring. He also always lacked discipline... Inside and outside the ring. Cus let him get away with everything just short of murder.

Tyson is/always was a mental midget and that is a serious pitfall for any fighter. Boxing is about more than physical tools. It is called the sweet science for a reason.

An old Holyfield would have owned any version of Tyson. The argument that Tyson's prime spanned from 18-20 years of age is laughable at best. People refuse to accept that he fought NO ONE during his short reign at the top of the division.

It is an interesting coincidence that Tyson suddenly 'got old' when he started finally fighting guys that could match his skills in the ring.

...the most overrated athlete of all-time and it isn't even close. People just don't want to accept it.[/QUOTE]

He didn't get old, he just stopped being trained properly. He became a celebrity. A HUGE celebrity. Seeing how he lost the good people that worked with him and surrounding himself with negative influences afterward, it ate him alive.

[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]
I think Tua may have beaten Lewis had he not run into Ibeabuchi first. Tua was a great, great fighter that literally had years taken off of his career in that one fight.[/QUOTE]

You are probably the most knowledgable boxing poster on here RedBlackAttack, but there is [B]no[/B] way Tua ever beats Lennox Lewis in a fight. Lennox had the reach and that excellent jab to keep Tua away from him, especially since Tua was what like 5'9"?
Theres no way Tua can get inside to do some damage when he has such a height/reach disadvantage.
Not to mention Lennox has the power in the right hand to keep him honest.

I feel that Lennox Lewis cops a lot of disrespect from the public and the boxing community. He would give just about any heavyweight in history fits. Theres noone with that combination of power, speed, height, reach and weight. About the only thing he has wrong is a suspect chin, but you can't deny that he took on everybody and cleaned out the division.

[quote=Tarik One]Bowe knocked his ass out in their 3rd fight. Explain that.[/quote]I said Bowe won all three fights.

[QUOTE=sonicman]You are probably the most knowledgable boxing poster on here RedBlackAttack, but there is [B]no[/B] way Tua ever beats Lennox Lewis in a fight. Lennox had the reach and that excellent jab to keep Tua away from him, especially since Tua was what like 5'9"?
Theres no way Tua can get inside to do some damage when he has such a height/reach disadvantage.
Not to mention Lennox has the power in the right hand to keep him honest.

I feel that Lennox Lewis cops a lot of disrespect from the public and the boxing community. He would give just about any heavyweight in history fits. Theres noone with that combination of power, speed, height, reach and weight. About the only thing he has wrong is a suspect chin, but you can't deny that he took on everybody and cleaned out the division.[/QUOTE]


Its really stupid to me how people look to guys like him or others who might follow somethign closer for opinions on things when their just opinions. Most of the time they are just as wrong as anyone. People do that **** here constantly. Think of NBA. Charles, Kenny, and Ernie. They can probably recite a lot of remote ****, or talk about offensive sets vs defense, etc. but they are just as wrong as everyone else with their opinions. They see the same exact things you do, and oftentimes they are way more bias than you are towards what they watch if they are a diehard purist towards the sport. People just over credit others way too much all in all.

[QUOTE=sonicman]You are probably the most knowledgable boxing poster on here RedBlackAttack, but there is [B]no[/B] way Tua ever beats Lennox Lewis in a fight. Lennox had the reach and that excellent jab to keep Tua away from him, especially since Tua was what like 5'9"?
Theres no way Tua can get inside to do some damage when he has such a height/reach disadvantage.
Not to mention Lennox has the power in the right hand to keep him honest.

I feel that Lennox Lewis cops a lot of disrespect from the public and the boxing community. He would give just about any heavyweight in history fits. Theres noone with that combination of power, speed, height, reach and weight. About the only thing he has wrong is a suspect chin, but you can't deny that he took on everybody and cleaned out the division.[/QUOTE]
I would have likely favored Lewis in a bout with Tua, even pre-Ibeabuchi. But, there is no doubt that Tua was a different fighter when he stepped in the ring with Lewis compared with the guy that fought Ike. He was WAY over-weight and out-of-shape against Lennox and he fought with very little emotion/passion.

I hold Lewis in very high regard. Skill-wise, he is one of the great heavyweights of all-time. Combine that with his massive size and you have something really special. However, his Achilles heel was always his chin and the David Tua that fought Ike only needed one crack at your jaw to end matters. Like I said... I would still favor Lewis, but there was always a chance that Tua could catch Lewis with something hard and that would be that.

Ibeabuchi had all of the physical tools to beat Lewis. He could match his size and strength, but had a granite chin and never wore down. That is a fight that I would have loved to have seen.

Bowe beat Holyfield twice. Tyson lost to holyfield twice. Bowe struggled against Golota while Tyson quickly dispatched Golota.

[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack;3180983]No doubt...

"Cus died and he was never the same."
"He went to prison and it messed up his head."
"He didn't train hard and he was partying."
"He didn't take his medication."
"He did take his medication."

Blah, blah, blah, blah...

The excuses are never ending.

Here is the truth, for those that want to accept it.

Mike Tyson was a fighter who showed a lot of promise, but never fulfilled his expectations (or even came close). People loved him because he was a great power puncher that was exciting to watch. He was also a mental midget who could never handle adversity and never beat another truly elite fighter of his generation.

People want to hold on to the myth of Tyson because they grew up idolizing him and they believe if they let go of that vicious image, they will be letting go of a piece of their childhood. I grew up watching and loving Mike's style, too, but at some point, you have to think rationally.

His resume is absolutely weak and he was completely dominated by two other great fighters of his generation.

If any other athlete in any other sport received the amount of excuses and free passes that Tyson does, people would laugh it off as some kind of joke. For some reason, otherwise perfectly reasonable people toss these excuses around as some kind of validation for their hero.

Tyson = Most Overrated Athlete Ever[/QUOTE]

This is a good post.

Tyson never really beat anyone of quality. When he faced a Holyfield or Lewis, fighters not intimidated by him, he lost.

Have to believe the same would have happened vs Bowe