toronto wants to sign all the euro players
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toronto wants to sign all the euro players
[QUOTE=bokes15]Gasol didn't win 1 playoff game on his own. We're not talking about rings or anything, we're talking about one singular playoff win. As the man he was swept twice... Not saying that Bargnani has approached his level yet in terms of talent, but yes, Gasol was a role player on that Lakers team. Albeit he had a big role as the second best player, but make no mistake, that was Kobe's team. Odom was a role player, and Bynum was/is a role player making HUGE money. 5 years 50 mill isn't that much guys, take a breather. How many 10 mill/year guys are expected to carry a team to the promise land. None that I can think of, not in this day and age.[/QUOTE]
Well when Mike Miller is the second best player on the team, I'd assume most teams would have a hard time winning a playoff game. There is a huge difference between Gasol in Memphis and Bargnani in his first 3 years.... He was a consistent rebounder and scorer, something Bargnani is not. Gasol was also an all-star by his 3rd season... Bargnani is not.
As I've said before, Odom was signed to the Heat to be their primary scorer alongside Caron... it just so happened Wade panned out a whole lot quicker than everyone thought.
And also, as I've said before, Bynum right now is looking like an overpaid player.
It's really as simple as what I've said before... a player making double digits is usually supposed to be a franchise core player. If he keeps up the inconsistent act, he will quickly be piled alongside players like Kaman who have potential, and some upside, but simply are not worth their current contracts.
BTW, if you don't know what I mean by franchise core player: it's a player they team can rebuild & retool around. If the Lakers had to rebuild, they likely hold onto Kobe, Gasol, & Bynum, and trade the other around, same with Spurs & Duncan, Ginobili & Parker. Bargs in comparison right now is looking like an expendable player.
[QUOTE=beasted86]Well when Mike Miller is the second best player on the team, I'd assume most teams would have a hard time winning a playoff game. There is a huge difference between Gasol in Memphis and Bargnani in his first 3 years.... He was a consistent rebounder and scorer, something Bargnani is not. Gasol was also an all-star by his 3rd season... Bargnani is not.
As I've said before, Odom was signed to the Heat to be their primary scorer alongside Caron... it just so happened Wade panned out a whole lot quicker than everyone thought.
And also, as I've said before, Bynum right now is looking like an overpaid player.
It's really as simple as what I've said before... a player making double digits is usually supposed to be a franchise core player. If he keeps up the inconsistent act, he will quickly be piled alongside players like Kaman who have potential, and some upside, but simply are not worth their current contracts.[/QUOTE]
Your first paragraph pretty much explains itself. When Mike Miller is your 2nd best player (which of course is highly debatable when a prime J-Will on that team) then it just shows that his numbers were inflated. Gasol was a very good player on a half decent team without a go-to guy. I think that Gasol's 17-18/9-10 that he's been averaging since joining the Lakers is a more fair comparison now since he's the 2nd option, which is what Bargnani is/has been in Toronto. So, you're kind of comparing apples and oranges here. I don't think he's as good as Pau Gasol but at the same time they weren't given an equal amount of opportunities at each stage of their respective careers.
Just to give this some perspective for the haters...
Big Z 11 M/year
Ben Wallets 15 mill/year
Sam Dalembert 11-12 mill/year
Nene 10 mill/year
Biedrins 9 mill/year
Bynum 14 mill/year
Eddie Curry 11 mill/year
Tyson Chandler 11 mill/year
Emeka Okafor 12 mill/year
Bargnani at 10 mill/year is definitely a fair contract for both parties. And when his game improves even further as full time C we're gonna be laughing that we got him at this price, rather than it being the other way around.
Another big being overpaid too soon..not a surprise.
[QUOTE=All Net]Another big being overpaid too soon..not a surprise.[/QUOTE]
Compared to the contracts other bigs have been given this one is very fair... And listen, imagine Bargs has a breakout year like Bynum did and averages like 22-23/8... His agent would probably have him demanding like 5 years 65-70 mill and then what'd we do? BC did this contract on the basis that Bargs has the potential to be a very good player and he's giving him that fixed contract now in hopes that he'll expand and be worth even more than that. It is kind of a gamble, but not really a major one and well worth it if you ask me.
Just when he was starting to develop and show he was perhaps worth a high lotto pick the pressure's right back on him.
[QUOTE=lilbeastnani]Compared to the contracts other bigs have been given this one is very fair... And listen, imagine Bargs has a breakout year like Bynum did and averages like 22-23/8... His agent would probably have him demanding like 5 years 65-70 mill and then what'd we do? BC did this contract on the basis that Bargs has the potential to be a very good player and he's giving him that fixed contract now in hopes that he'll expand and be worth even more than that. It is kind of a gamble, but not really a major one and well worth it if you ask me.[/QUOTE]
That's what I wanted 2 say. He has got a great potential. I think that was Raptors primary concern when they made an offer.
[QUOTE=lilbeastnani]Just to give this some perspective for the haters...
Big Z 11 M/year
Ben Wallets 15 mill/year
Sam Dalembert 11-12 mill/year
Nene 10 mill/year
Biedrins 9 mill/year
Bynum 14 mill/year
Eddie Curry 11 mill/year
Tyson Chandler 11 mill/year
Emeka Okafor 12 mill/year
Bargnani at 10 mill/year is definitely a fair contract for both parties. And when his game improves even further as full time C we're gonna be laughing that we got him at this price, rather than it being the other way around.[/QUOTE]
Yeah that is comparable for big men. The only problem with signing bigs on potential is usually you never get what you pay for.
Hopefully Bargs won't be the same. Since he was the top draft pick, isn't he already make close to 8 mil already????
[QUOTE=knickscity]Yeah that is comparable for big men. The only problem with signing bigs on potential is usually you never get what you pay for.
Hopefully Bargs won't be the same. Since he was the top draft pick, isn't he already make close to 8 mil already????[/QUOTE]
Yes, next years qualifying offer would've been over 8 mill. So in fact it was probably a smart choice for BC to just offer him the 10 because like beastnani said, look at the going rate for good young big men. They all get overpaid and if Bargnani produced for an entire year what he did for that stretch during the 2nd half of the season, he would be demanding more than a 5 year 50 mill contract and BC would probably meet those demands..
He may be worth that much based on his potential and the fact that he seems have figured out how to play in the NBA. But he is still the worst rebounding big in the NBA.
"OMG....OMG....thank you SOOOOOOO much for signing that extension with us. $50 million!!!!!! So worth it."
Bargnani "You are welcome".
"So....you think you can get us into playoffs next year?"
Barnani "Did you pay me $15 million a year?"
"Uh.....no"
Bargnani "Then I don't think so......"
"Oh....that's ok.......we love you anyway......" :hammerhead:
Ok... he's worth more than 5 mill a year and less than 10 mill... I'd say about 8, so the extension he signed isn't like some kind of huge aberration.
I like it, maybe a little high right now but with anymore development its worth it.
Also, either Bosh is staying or leaving after this year:
1) With Bosh it gives a decent starting 5, room to work on the rest
2) Without Bosh (probably the case) it gives them a base on which to build with the extra dough they have. Calderon, Rozan, Hedo, _______, Bargnani plus next years draft pick and one or two FA's. At least there is talent if Bosh leaves.
If Bosh re-signs that is certainly going to be alot for two frontcourt players.
[QUOTE=All Net]If Bosh re-signs that is certainly going to be alot for two frontcourt players.[/QUOTE]
What are you talking about look at Orlando and a bunch of teams in the league.
Lewis lol Bargnani ftw!
If he gets a lot better, which he has shown many signs he can, then it's a heck of a bargain.
If he gets even just a little better, then it's the right number.
If he stays the same, then it's over paid by 1-1.5M.
What's the big deal? If you follow the salaries for guys at this position even just a little bit, how does this number not make sense?
[QUOTE=Molson]
What's the big deal? If you follow the salaries for guys at this position even just a little bit, how does this number not make sense?[/QUOTE]
It doesn't make sense if you are a fan of an opposing team who just roped him in at $10 Million per year.:D
Okay...
I'm going to throw this question out there... and I want people to answer as honestly as possible (especially Raptors fans). Please, be very honest:
[B]What are the chances Bargnani would have been worth more than a $10M/yr. contract after next season?[/B]
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[B]THAT[/B] is why this is overpaying. What exactly was the rush? He was going to be a restricted free agent anyway, it's unlikely anyone would have paid him more than $10M per year even if he came out with a consistent 19/6 campaign.
Rather than keep options open for 2010, they commit to a mediocre squad.
:banghead:
The Raptor's GM needs to be fired.
10mil a season? Are you ****ing kidding me? Is this some kind of ****ing typo?
^
B.C believes in Bargnani being the cornerstone for Raptors, it did look promising for the better half of February even out playing the likes of Rashard Lewis (stat wise) The deal should be sliced though.. far too much.. Bosh isnt going to sign.. :hammerhead:
[quote=danumber88]^
B.C believes in Bargnani being the cornerstone for Raptors, it did look promising for the better half of February even out playing the likes of Rashard Lewis (stat wise) The deal should be sliced though.. far too much.. Bosh isnt going to sign.. :hammerhead:[/quote]
Cologeno (spelling) is an idiot.
He lost the best player in Toronto history.
He made them the softest team in the league.
He has now doomed them to mediocrity.
As much as I love the Raps organization, I don't like this nor do I like the Turk signing. Money isn't a problem for the raps I guess....only thing I can think of is that there is a big Bosh trade coming up and they need the pieces around Turk-Bargs to get what they really want....a championship. Maybe Bosh for a good center and a good SG that can ACTUALLY play D might help out this organization. Oh, and some depth.
BTW, I hate Bargnani...
[QUOTE=Godfather]Cologeno (spelling) is an idiot.
He lost the best player in Toronto history.
He made them the softest team in the league.
He has now doomed them to mediocrity.[/QUOTE]
My posts didn't necessarily reflect to Raptors being good. Just saying B.C decided to go for Bargnani as the corner stone and lost the most agressive player on our team. But a big Bosh trade is coming up..
Im starting to wonder if BC is trynna make a championship team or a team full of white guys who cant really defend.....Bosh l should be the franchise player....I would trade bargs if anything...too late though Bosh is outta here
[QUOTE=Rockets(T-mac)]Damn 10 Mil a year? He's probably around the 7-9 mil range, but still... Doesn't sound right to give him that much.[/QUOTE]
Hmm... name one basketball skill that Bargnani does not have. In a year this contract will be seen as a bargain. Bargnani's ceiling is 20+ and 10. 20 and 8 next year is even likely. I keep telling people, you know he shot 50% for a month last year................... FROM 3! Like, his potential is still massive. He had a coach who didn't use him properly for a couple years and hated him. As soon as the coach was gone he started playing great again. AND, he's only 23. Paying players who are worth 10 million right now is how to not contend. Paying players 10 mill the year before they're worth it, like the Spurs have done with parker/manu, is how you win. Colangelo knows exactly what he's doing.
I love Bargnani, but from what we've seen so far from him, this is way too much. He needs to get at least 8 rebounds a game and shoot better than 45% from the field if he deserves that kind of money, as well as give us a much better defensive effort. What I really had exception to though, was the Turk signing. I don't think he's a good fit for us at all, pretty much giving us more of what we already have and not what we need (defense, toughness, and rebounding). If we can get Pops back as well a starting Centre who bangs down low in the post with a back up or starting defensive 2, then we'd look much better.
[QUOTE=Dave3]I love Bargnani, but from what we've seen so far from him, this is way too much. He needs to get at least 8 rebounds a game and shoot better than 45% from the field if he deserves that kind of money, as well as give us a much better defensive effort. What I really had exception to though, was the Turk signing. I don't think he's a good fit for us at all, pretty much giving us more of what we already have and not what we need (defense, toughness, and rebounding). If we can get Pops back as well a starting Centre who bangs down low in the post with a back up or starting defensive 2, then we'd look much better.[/QUOTE]
There is still no word on Pops if he re signed yet...
[QUOTE=DeathOfAutotune]Im starting to wonder if BC is trynna make a championship team or a team full of white guys who cant really defend.....Bosh l should be the franchise player....I would trade bargs if anything...too late though Bosh is outta here[/QUOTE]
Ya know, they're being smart. Toronto is easily the prime location for European/international talent. Its the most multi-cultural city in the world. If you're a Euro dude, do you want to live in a burned out urban area in the states or Canada... its a well duh question that Hedo already gave his answer to, and he was only going to Portland which is a nice city. With the crazy improvement seen internationally if they keep building on that theme (like San Antonio did) they're going to be winning lots. They build a team of the best euro players playing a little more international style and have success with it and draw all the best global talent. It only makes sense.
There was no reason to do this now. Why not wait and see what Bargs does this season? :confusedshrug:
Regardless, he's not worth 10 mil a season.
He better start rebounding.
[QUOTE=indiefan23]Hmm... name one basketball skill that Bargnani does not have. In a year this contract will be seen as a bargain. Bargnani's ceiling is 20+ and 10. 20 and 8 next year is even likely. I keep telling people, you know he shot 50% for a month last year................... FROM 3! Like, his potential is still massive. He had a coach who didn't use him properly for a couple years and hated him. As soon as the coach was gone he started playing great again. AND, he's only 23. Paying players who are worth 10 million right now is how to not contend. Paying players 10 mill the year before they're worth it, like the Spurs have done with parker/manu, is how you win. Colangelo knows exactly what he's doing.[/QUOTE]
Ceiling, ceiling... potential, potential...
Let's just see what Bargnani does next season. IMO his ceiling is Mehmet Okur, which is around 18PPG 7 REB.... but the truth is nobody is calling Okur's $8.5M a bargain.
I really still have no idea why they rushed into this deal. Bargnani's stock would not have risen over a $10M contract by next year.
[QUOTE=Godfather]Cologeno (spelling) is an idiot.
He lost the best player in Toronto history.
He made them the softest team in the league.
He has now doomed them to mediocrity.[/QUOTE]
Umm... unless you're overrating Bosh who's not gone yet, Vince Carter is the best player in TO history. Its not even close. And he didn't lose him, Babecock did.
Colangelo traded TJ Ford for Jermaine O'Neal but had to cuz TJ was so clearly not happy playing backup and Calderone was clearly a much better point guard.
This is a deal given based on potential value, that's it. In order to win, sometimes you have to take gambles and this is one that Colangelo believes will pay off. If Bargnani averages 20 and 7-8 this year, would he be worth this contract at 24 years old? Absolutely, possibly even more. You're telling me that if Bargnani was a free agent next year, at age 24, coming off a season of 20 and 7, that a team like the Bulls, for example, wouldn't be all over this guy?
Imagine Greg Oden when his rookie contract ends. Yeah he's struggled in his first year playing, and he won't reach his maximum potential by his fourth year (especially since he missed one full season). You're telling me it's NOT smart to try and get him locked up for 10-12 mill a season? It's all about potential value people. He has the potential to be worth more than that. And so does Bargnani.
[QUOTE=IamSofaKing]There is still no word on Pops if he re signed yet...[/QUOTE]
That's the kind of player we need. We need hustle and strength. We don't need more shooters without any physical presence. The great thing about Bargnani though is his low post D and toughness is underrated by probably everyone, but we need a lot more than that for now.
I guess they're serious about showing Bosh they are trying to be contenders. :lol
Man...$50 mil! He's probably only worth the MLE. Maybe 6 or 7 mil per cuz he's tall but that's about it. He's overpaid now. If he sucks next season, they won't be able to move that horrible contract.
[QUOTE=beasted86]Ceiling, ceiling... potential, potential...
Let's just see what Bargnani does next season. IMO his ceiling is Mehmet Okur, which is around 18PPG 7 REB.... but the truth is nobody is calling Okur's $8.5M a bargain.
I really still have no idea why they rushed into this deal. Bargnani's stock would not have risen over a $10M contract by next year.[/QUOTE]
19 and 9 is not 10 million worthy? Really? And Okur was a shooter who thrived off of a great point. Bargnani had 1.2 BPG last year and is not close to his prime. Okur is no where near the defensive presence Bargnani could be or is and has no where near as complete a game as Bargnani. Great shooter, but he's not a better shooter then Bargnani and only shot >40% for the first time last year. Bargnani did this last season. In march playing 33 minutes a game Bargnani had 20 points, 6 boards and shot 50% from the 3 point line. Has Okur ever had a month like that? I seriously doubt it. And again, he's only 23. They guy has not nearly played his best ball.
He'll be worth the contract. It's gonna be a bargain if anything...
[QUOTE=brwnman]He'll be worth the contract. It's gonna be a bargain if anything...[/QUOTE]
Agreed
[QUOTE=brwnman]He'll be worth the contract. It's gonna be a bargain if anything...[/QUOTE]
He basically got the same exact thing Tyson Chandler got and you see how difficult it is to move that contract for the Hornets.
Quite a bit of money for Bargnani, but not terrible when compared to other young bigs. It looks like Colangelo is either preparing to trade Bosh for a wing combo, or hoping Demar can create offense on his own against NBA players. 5 starters who are more valuable on the offensive end, and yet the only one I feel real comfortable with creating his own shot is Bosh... hopefully it works out.
Bargnani's a good player, approaching great, but he still has a ways to go before he reaches Bosh's level in terms of offensive productivity. Most effective pump fake in the league, but he has no other way of beating defenders off the dribble. His post game improved last year, but he still looks clumsy and disoriented when fighting for position on offense, so improving his off-ball movement and attaining post position should be a top priority.