30 minute Lebron video and a totally statless case for him to be top 20 ever. Today.

[QUOTE=bdreason]So you think a guy who averages 20/10 for 1 year is the same as a guy who averages 20/10 for 10 years?

Each to his own.[/QUOTE] You mean 'to each his own'. Good attempt though. :oldlol:

[QUOTE]Kblaze, not to go off-topic but how do you feel about the Cavs-Magic series if they do face off looking at it now, would Shaq be able to neutralize Dwight?[/QUOTE]

No. he will do better than Z and Anderson but he wont stop him exactly. But Dwight isnt stopped in a traditional. half his points arent really defended. He jumps over you gets a rebound and puts it back. Or he runs the break for an easy one. He will do that vs anyone. And with Carter now? And a healthy Jameer?

The Magic can beat anyone in the east. I dont expect it. But they shouldnt be looked past.

[QUOTE]So you think a guy who averages 20/10 for 1 year is the same as a guy who averages 20/10 for 10 years?

Each to his own.[/QUOTE]

Show me the players. In 1999 id have taken 2 year Duncans 20/10 over 15 years of Karl Malones to that point. those 15 years wouldnt help me in the playoffs would they?

20/10 isnt 20/10. gotta give me the players in question.

lebron doesn't even sniff my top 40, but i guess we must be looking at these rankings in a different light. I think its insulting to place him above guys like malone, stockton, baylor, west.

Blasphemy!!!

[QUOTE=YAWN]lebron doesn't even sniff my top 40, but i guess we must be looking at these rankings in a different light. [B]I think its insulting to place him above guys like malone, stockton, baylor, west.[/B][/QUOTE]


These guys are usually the first to get sh!ted on, than everybody gives them what I call pitty props. For example, they will say stuff like "not to take anything from Malone but.... " or Stockton was great but... "

Stockton has achieved things Lebronze couldn't even dream of.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]20/10 isnt 20/10. gotta give me the players in question.[/QUOTE]
You would think Zach Randolph would have taught them that by now...

[QUOTE=Joey3000]These guys are usually the first to get sh!ted on, than everybody gives them what I call pitty props. For example, they will say stuff like "not to take anything from Malone but.... " or Stockton was great but... "

Stockton has achieved things Lebronze couldn't even dream of.[/QUOTE]

How many Championship Rings?

LeBron still have a chance to win an NBA Finals MVP because he's still playing in the NBA.

Stockton is not even a top 25 players of all time. LeBron at the age of 24 yrs.old is already the reigning NBA MVP.

The Lakers lost like 3 titles by a combined 4 points. They missed several single shots to win it all. The celtics were godly but not impossible to beat. They won because of Russell.

[QUOTE]I think its insulting to place him above guys like malone, stockton, baylor, west.[/QUOTE]

John Stocktons mother doesnt think he was better than Lebron.

[QUOTE=CJ Mustard]You mean 'to each his own'. Good attempt though. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]


It means the same thing, moron. Good contribution though.

And I feel bad for anyone who doesn't take longevity into account. It shows a lack of strong values... but it's pretty common with the youth these days.

It's a "what have you done for me lately" society we live in. Did I get that one right, mustard? :oldlol:

[QUOTE=Lebron23]How many Championship Rings?

LeBron still have a chance to win an NBA Finals MVP because he's still playing in the NBA.

Stockton is not even a top 25 players of all time. LeBron at the age of 24 yrs.old is already the reigning NBA MVP.[/QUOTE]

More reason for him to start making more finals appearences and giving him a chance to win some titles. Think it may be a few more years until he does this.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]....[/QUOTE]

You said specifically you'd take Lebron because he's more consistent "night in night out". Team success doesn't even matter here, look at the numbers and it's clear that Kobe has been the more consistent player.

Lebron's series averages since 2006:

36/8/6 on 51% (worst defense in playoffs)
27/8/6 on 44%
28/9/7 on 42%
25/7/8 on 42%
26/9/9 on 45%
22/7/7 on 36%
30/9/8 on 48% (worst defense in playoffs)
27/6/8 on 35%
32/11/8 on 51%
34/8/6 on 56%
39/8/8 on 49%


How is that more consistent than Kobe?? Kobe has two series where he shot below 45% and none below 40%.

Kobe's series averages since 2006:

28/6/5 on 50%
33/5/4 on 46%
34/5/6 on 50%
33/7/7 on 49%
29/6/4 on 54% (against the same team that shut down Lebron a year ago)
26/5/5 on 41%
27/6/5 on 47%
27/5/4 on 45%
34/6/6 on 48%
32/7/6 on 43%

Up until this year, Lebron's individual playoff numbers were a joke. Think he shot like 41% for a two year stretch in them. Keep in mind that Lebron is a front court player (helps rebounding numbers from position alone, check out his offensive rebounding, it's terrible) and someone who dominates the ball more than anyone else in the league (all time perhaps?). Lebron-ball give the Cavs a limited ceiling...they can be a good team who can beat a couple of weak playoff teams (like the competition they've faced every year in the first two rounds in the East) or otherwise it's first round exit every year in the West. So while he can put up these assists numbers playing Lebron-ball, it doesn't help the team at all. Only way they can win is to get off that system, and it became clear this year especially (just watch, he is not winning sh*t if he keeps averaging 8 rebs and 8 assts on his teams). The Lakers system is the complete opposite. Pretty sure Kobe averaged career high in assists when he played briefly outside the triangle even though he was injured and in bad shape (with a scandal looming over him) all of that year.

And you want to talk about teams allergic to defense, then what were those Wizards teams? Suns were not as bad as you make them see, and Wizards were the worst defensive team in the playoffs every year they got in.

For one....didnt you say last 4 years? What was 06? And how is that setup? Going back or is 07 the first one?



Im not about to go do an extensive search at the moment since im at work but after a brief glance at what I looked up in an old topic(On Ben Gordons number of off nights)...

Kobe had at least 24 games of under 40% shooting last year and I dont think the season had ended at the time. Ben Gordon at the time had 21. Lebron had 8. Lebrons style of play just isnt gonna produce as many bad nights as Kobes. Kobe takes bad shots compared to Lebron. Is that even up for debate?


And what are you even showing me there? Does that paint a picture of a superior Kobe? Lebron probably has the 3 best series you posted. then one of Kobes is 4th...and another of Lebrons 5th. Even with the couple bad ones it reads like a Jordan list. and 8 of Kobes are on a vastly superior team. If Lebron had Gasol, Odom, and Bynum can you see him needing to take the shots he does? Lebron on the Lakers might literally shoot 55% as he currently is.

As I said I would trade the whols Cavs roster outside Lebron these last few years for Gasol alone. better offensive teams lead to less bad shots for everyone involved. Of course the vastly(vastly....) superior teammates factor in. And even with them im not seeing Kobe playing better.

I just realized last season Lebron had the best ever PER in NBA history BOTH in regular season and in playoff. :applause:

Gotta love how all the Kobe fans(Fatal9, Barbaroi, etc,) are pissed at Kblaze because he said he would consider taking Lebron to start a franchise over Kobe, as well as some other stuff. Yet when Kblaze made his threads about his Kobe video and the one about how people should stop bringing MJ up every day, they were all over him. :rolleyes:

Great video, as usual. Keep up the good work and ignore the idiots.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]I think the list changed a number of times. I wasnt paying the closest attention.there is a perfectly reasonable case to be made for Kobe over everyone I put Lebron over. though id rather have Lebron. Lebron is unstoppable because of things that dont vary with how hot he is. When his jumper doesnt fall he can still get to the basket every single time he tries.

Lebron having a terrible game means hes missing layups. Lebron bad games are flukey. Kobe bad games are because he takes some of the toughest shots in NBA history and nobody can make them all the time. Lebron is a more night in night out threat to play near his peak potential I think.

[B]Kobe is amazing for his ability to make difficult shots. Lebron is amazing for his ability to not need to take a difficult shot.[/B][/QUOTE]
:bowdown:

Great Thread!!!!
:cheers:

[QUOTE=raptorfan_dr07]Gotta love how all the Kobe fans(Fatal9, Barbaroi, etc,) are pissed at Kblaze because he said he would consider taking Lebron to start a franchise over Kobe, as well as some other stuff. Yet when Kblaze made his threads about his Kobe video and the one about how people should stop bringing MJ up every day, they were all over him. :rolleyes:

Great video, as usual. Keep up the good work and ignore the idiots.[/QUOTE]
:roll:

i honestly think kblaze was on point

except for the dwade comment that's about it tho

Props to Kblaze. I always enjoy the quality of his videos and posts.

I am a Lakers fan, and a Kobe fan too, but I agree on the assessment that Lebron is a better pick than Kobe because of his physical dominance along with his skills. Kobe maybe the more "skilled" player, and Lebron may not be able to do those left-handed turn around spin fade away three pointers out of bounds that Kobe has done, but who cares. You take the player that has the less trouble to score in a more realistic scenario. That's why players like Shaq are dominant without having to fade away, crossover, or shoot outside of 10 feet from the basket.

I tell you I don't want the Cavs to win anything because I want the Lakers (and Kobe too) to keep on winning. But I still consider Lebron a player with the greater potential, and if Lebron starts winning and putting legendary performances, I will just have to sit down and appreciate how great Lebron is/will be.

[QUOTE=iamgine]I just realized last season Lebron had the best ever PER in NBA history BOTH in regular season and in playoff. :applause:[/QUOTE]

which should tell you that PER is a garbage stat

[QUOTE=HighFlyer23]which should tell you that PER is a garbage stat[/QUOTE]

top 5 in PER this past season?

LeBron
Wade
Paul
Howard
Duncan

5 of the best players in basketball, not much argument right? Not a garbage stat.

[QUOTE=HighFlyer23]which should tell you that PER is a garbage stat[/QUOTE]
PER isn't a garbage stat, and I don't think any stat is garbage (that I can think of). They are however, tools one can use to measure a player's performance and consistency.

They aren't the ultimate decider, but they are something that help lead to a decision.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]



These 15 players I think you can say were better than Lebron and not get much argument:

Bob Petitt
Russell
Wilt
Kareem
Bird
Magic
Moses
Jordan
Hakeem
Duncan
Shaq
Baylor
West
Oscar

*Id throw Isiah in there but many people wouldnt.*

.[/QUOTE]
lol at Baylor/West/Oscar being on this list but not Kobe. What a joke. :oldlol:

You take away the MVP, you look at the wins, and then Lebron Doesn't look so good. Hes been to the Finals once, and played horrifically, he got to the conference finals and lifted his play, but none the less did not get his team mates involved and lost the series, even though they had proven they were the better team. Hes lead some average teams farther than they should go, but not a top 20 player in any way.
Now lets look at a guy like Wade, who Is definitely not top 20 player. He comes to a team, that was only 20 someive wins (though you cant give all the credit to wade, because Butler and Odom probably had more to do with the regular season wins than Wade) brings the team to 42 wins, sends the Heat to the second round, and then Wins 2 games against a 60 win team. Then the next year he raises his play to an All NBA level when Shaq comes along. Then the next year they go to the finals, where Wade actually raises his level of play by a large margin and won the championship. Then two years later, he come back from an injury, and leads a 15 win team, with only Beasley added, to 43 wins. He is definitely better than Lebron.

Well if Lebron is a top 20 player of all time... Than Wade is top 19.

He has accomplished more than Bron and his numbers are just as good. Yeah Bron has a MVP title, but wade has a [B]Finals MVP[/B].

As do paul pierce, jojo White, Billups, Cornbread, worthy, Tony Parker, and Joe Dumars. **** John Starks has one if not for Hakeems pinky getting on that shot in game 6. Finals MVPs are more likely than regular season MVPs to be less than all time great because you have to have a great team to get one. And you can win it with one or two good games. A single good matchup in a series can win a finals MVP.

You will never see a guy like Maxwell win a real MVP. The title is relevant. The finals MVP is....something. But on average id say its a lesser player than the actual MVP. There are finals MVPs who put up 12/9 i nthe playoffs and 11/8 in the regular season. And its not even one of the guys I mentioned above. And other guy(Unseld) won one waaaay past his prime years past his last all star game as an 8/12 player on a fantastic team.

You have to be a key player on a good team to be finals MVP. You gnerally have to be exceptional to be a real MVP.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]As do paul pierce, jojo White, Billups, Cornbread, worthy, Tony Parker, and Joe Dumars. **** John Starks has one if not for Hakeems pinky getting on that shot in game 6. Finals MVPs are more likely than regular season MVPs to be less than all time great because you have to have a great team to get one. And you can win it with one or two good games. A single good matchup in a series can win a finals MVP.

You will never see a guy like Maxwell win a real MVP. The title is relevant. The finals MVP is....something. But on average id say its a lesser player than the actual MVP. There are finals MVPs who put up 12/9 i nthe playoffs and 11/8 in the regular season. And its not even one of the guys I mentioned above. And other guy(Unseld) won one waaaay past his prime years past his last all star game as an 8/12 player on a fantastic team.

You have to be a key player on a good team to be finals MVP. You gnerally have to be exceptional to be a real MVP.[/QUOTE]


True, but wades finals MVP was not a "right place at the right time" situation. He carried that team, he dominated that series in ways that few swingman in history have been able to.

Infact, compare wades Finals MVP numbers to anyone in history... and you tell me...

I dont include Wade on the "Not all that great..." finals MVP list. He earned it. 100%. He was Jordan like that series. Im just saying that a finals MVP in and of itself doesnt make you greater than those without it. at least not in the way an MVP(usually...) does.

Also...Wade last year was as good as or better than the MVP was in at least 5 seasons of the last 15.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]Also...Wade last year was as good as or better than the MVP was in at least 5 seasons of the last 15.[/QUOTE]

Which five? I don't disagree...just curious.

[QUOTE=Da_Realist]Which five? I don't disagree...just curious.[/QUOTE]


I'm sure it would include Nash's MVPs. That... I would agree with

Kblaze, I think you're asking the question backwards. It's not "What did any of these(the players you threw into the dirt) guys do that Lebron didn't?" It's "What has Lebron done that any of those guys haven't?" And until he wins a ring(as the best player on his team) that's how the question should stay.

Look, I like Lebron, I think he's a good kid(although a bit egotistical, but who wouldn't be with his level of sucess so far?) and I seriously hope he does win a ring as the best player on a team because if he doesn't, well, let's just say that the media's been hyping him since day 1. And if he doesn't deliver, everyone will blame him, even though it was the media who constantly force fed him down everyone's throat, saying he's the next Michael, that's all they care about, a story.

And if he doesn't win in the next 6 years(6 chances left) Then he will probably move down to second best player on a team. And if that happens, I really really really hope he does win a ring. Because not winning your whole carrer sucks for a great player.

The guy is 6'9 and 260 yet he has no post game. And if you say that is because he is a perimeter player then you have to know he has a poor mid range game(Spurs 07 finals trapping pick and roll).

And if you want to say that Oscar was a product of his era than I have two words for you.

Hand Checking. That's the reason Lebron is so dominate now. He is a great player, but not yet top 25, these are the guys I would take ahead of him off the top of my head, not in order.

Magic
Jordan
Bird
Chamberlain
Russel
Abdul Jabbar
Mosses
Barkley
Dr. J
Oscar
West
Walton
Gervin
Isiah
Shaq
Kobe
Pippen
Malone
Ewing
Robinson
Olajuwan
Duncan
Kidd
Webber
Garnett


That's 25 and I'm missing some I'm sure. Again, I like the guy and I think he is great, but he has a long way to go...

[QUOTE=ElBronco]Kblaze, I think you're asking the question backwards. It's not "What did any of these(the players you threw into the dirt) guys do that Lebron didn't?" It's "What has Lebron done that any of those guys haven't?" And until he wins a ring(as the best player on his team) that's how the question should stay.

Look, I like Lebron, I think he's a good kid(although a bit egotistical, but who wouldn't be with his level of sucess so far?) and I seriously hope he does win a ring as the best player on a team because if he doesn't, well, let's just say that the media's been hyping him since day 1. And if he doesn't deliver, everyone will blame him, even though it was the media who constantly force fed him down everyone's throat, saying he's the next Michael, that's all they care about, a story.

And if he doesn't win in the next 6 years(6 chances left) Then he will probably move down to second best player on a team. And if that happens, I really really really hope he does win a ring. Because not winning your whole carrer sucks for a great player.

The guy is 6'9 and 260 yet he has no post game. And if you say that is because he is a perimeter player then you have to know he has a poor mid range game(Spurs 07 finals trapping pick and roll).

And if you want to say that Oscar was a product of his era than I have two words for you.

Hand Checking. That's the reason Lebron is so dominate now. He is a great player, but not yet top 25, these are the guys I would take ahead of him off the top of my head, not in order.

Magic
Jordan
Bird
Chamberlain
Russel
Abdul Jabbar
Mosses
Barkley
Dr. J
Oscar
West
Walton
Gervin
Isiah
Shaq
Kobe
Pippen
Malone
Ewing
Robinson
Olajuwan
Duncan
Kidd
Webber
Garnett


That's 25 and I'm missing some I'm sure. Again, I like the guy and I think he is great, but he has a long way to go...[/QUOTE]

Wow. Pippen? Kidd? Webber? Gervin? Even picking guys like Isiah and KG is a bit crazy. I hope you're not talking about prime, and you're talking about careers. When you say you would take them ahead of him, you don't mean to start a team right?

[QUOTE=ElBronco]Kblaze, I think you're asking the question backwards. It's not "What did any of these(the players you threw into the dirt) guys do that Lebron didn't?" It's "What has Lebron done that any of those guys haven't?" And until he wins a ring(as the best player on his team) that's how the question should stay.

Look, I like Lebron, I think he's a good kid(although a bit egotistical, but who wouldn't be with his level of sucess so far?) and I seriously hope he does win a ring as the best player on a team because if he doesn't, well, let's just say that the media's been hyping him since day 1. And if he doesn't deliver, everyone will blame him, even though it was the media who constantly force fed him down everyone's throat, saying he's the next Michael, that's all they care about, a story.

And if he doesn't win in the next 6 years(6 chances left) Then he will probably move down to second best player on a team. And if that happens, I really really really hope he does win a ring. Because not winning your whole carrer sucks for a great player.

The guy is 6'9 and 260 yet he has no post game. And if you say that is because he is a perimeter player then you have to know he has a poor mid range game(Spurs 07 finals trapping pick and roll).

And if you want to say that Oscar was a product of his era than I have two words for you.

Hand Checking. That's the reason Lebron is so dominate now. He is a great player, but not yet top 25, these are the guys I would take ahead of him off the top of my head, not in order.

Magic
Jordan
Bird
Chamberlain
Russel
Abdul Jabbar
Mosses
Barkley
Dr. J
Oscar
West
Walton
Gervin
Isiah
Shaq
Kobe
Pippen
Malone
Ewing
Robinson
Olajuwan
Duncan
Kidd
Webber
Garnett


That's 25 and I'm missing some I'm sure. Again, I like the guy and I think he is great, but he has a long way to go...[/QUOTE]
Nice way to look at it.

Didn't go through the list you provided, but your reasoning makes sense.

[QUOTE=guy]Wow. Pippen? Kidd? Webber? Gervin? Even picking guys like Isiah and KG is a bit crazy. I hope you're not talking about prime, and you're talking about careers. When you say you would take them ahead of him, you don't mean to start a team right?[/QUOTE]
It's not his fault. It is like KBlaze said I guess. We are not ready to call a 24 year old top 20.

First of all, LeBron is neither taller or heavier than Malone. You get on Malone's lack of clutch ability and his game not being conducive to creating shots late, but he was actually a better shooter than LeBron when he won his MVP's, and LeBron has absolutely stunk it up against the two best teams he faced in the playoffs(Spurs, Celtics) because of his lack of ability to shot. Dude got swept on the Finals and lost on a 66 win team with homecourt.

You also talk about LeBron not needing to take tough shots...yet hes never shot better than 49% in a season and his lack of ability to score because of a lack of dribble creativity and shooting ability when his drives are cut off make him have to take tough shots(for him) meaning jumpers...

Wade is equal to or better than Nash, Dirk, Malone, Iverson and probably right there with Kobe and maybe Garnett in 04. None of them were just a mile beyond Wade as players. due partly to teams they had more MVP worthy seasons I suppose. But Wade is without a doubt one of the greatest players of all time and currently better than a number of the top 50 as of 97. I loved Clyde drexler but he wasnt better than Wade. Nor was Nique(who should have been top 50). Or Stockton. Gary PAyton wasnt top 50 but hes a HOF player...not better than Wade. Wade like Lebron and Kobe is top 40, maybe top 30, and would get taken over some of the top 20 if people want to be honest with themselves about the word "Best".

Elite....ive seen Malone listed anywhere from 6'8'' to 9...and 250-270. about the same as Lebron or less depending on when in his career you mean.

And what is "He never shot over 49%" even saying? A swingman shooting 49% isnt enough?

And while Lebron lost with a 66 win team hes yet to pull a Malone and lose with a 60 win team in the first round. Or multiple 50 win teams in the first. Karl Malone did not have it in him to take over a game like the one vs the Pistons where he scored 31 of the last 33 and just rained jumpers from everywhere. EH wasnt a "Give him the ball and get out of the way" scorer you could rely on like that. Which is why Stockton was often the closer. Not that you didnt know that....


As for this:

Magic
Jordan
Bird
Chamberlain
Russel
Abdul Jabbar
Mosses
Barkley
Dr. J
Oscar
West
Walton
Gervin
Isiah
Shaq
Kobe
Pippen
Malone
Ewing
Robinson
Olajuwan
Duncan
Kidd
Webber
Garnett


The mere fact you list Chris Webber, Kidd, and Pippen makes my point for me. chris Webber did nothing....NOTHING to justify any ranking Lebron doesnt. He won less, had worse numbers, less elite seasons in a career than Lebron has at 24(00-03...thats it) had worse playoff success, was hurt a lot more, and is known as among the greatest chokers of all time(partly due to the NCAa but the fact remains..he is). Jason Kidd was never as highly regarded as Lebron. Even when he got MVP talk. He was never Lebron. He wasnt a guy people were gonna call the best player on earth. Pippen is my second favorite player ever....he showed a lot in 94 and 95 without MJ. But he sure as hell isnt just better than Lebron.

And Lebron doesnt have to do anything others did to be better than them. Doesnt matter how the question is posed really. Matters how good a player you are. And a lot of these guys just arent better. Emotion and respect might not lead some to say so but fact is...Lebron is better than most everyone to evr play basketball. We really gonna pretend that Lebron on the Royals in place of Oscar Robertson makes them worse? Oscar robertson led average to pretty good teams...led them nowhere...had literally nothing as a teams best player to build his legacy on but stats...much of the league considered him arrogant and ive read players quoted saying West was far better because he was a good teammate.

But im to act like Oscar just blows him away because.........of....what?

Give me a reason oscar robertson was better than Lebron. Its not an era thing either. Bill Russell? wilt? fine. No argument here.

What did Oscar robertson do? Did he win as much in the regular season even when he had a HOF bigman in Lucas? No. Did he win as much in the playoffs? No. Did he do anything Lebron didnt with the exception of the more rebounds and assists in a league teams were scoring 115-120 a game? No. was he a better shooter? Do you have evidence of him being a better defender? shot blocker? Can you name the games he took over? I can think of a couple...but I didnt see them fully.

Can you actually give me one speck of justificaiton for Oscar robertson being better on the floor than Lebron James...other than it just sounding right?

And im not even saying Lebron SHOULD be over robertson. Im not even saying I would rank Lebron top 15 all time as I would Oscar. But I dont think one person here can give me a reason Oscar is better than Lebron that wouldnt justify Lebron being better than chris webber or half the others you listed there.

Im just saying that a lot of the time we let reasoning go out the window in favor of the simple popular opinion and emotions.

Dont like to see a young guy next to Oscar, Baylor, and Karl Malone. But the fact is...none of them did a single thing as a teams best player he didnt. And plenty of people who did....you are flat out lying if you tell me you would start a team with them before Lebron.

The guy is good. Great. All time great. nearly all time elite.

Emotion and what "feels right" shouldnt stand in the way of reality. We arent talking about Lebron vs Bill Russell. A guy who won all but 2 elimination games of any kind(HS, NCAA, Olympic, or NBA) in his life. We are talking Lebron vs a bunch of guys who did nothing he didnt and in many cases were factually inferior for reasons ranging from era, to health, or just individual dominance.

Why should one guy be called better than someone when he just....isnt. Especially when you cant even list things the "better" guy did that the worse guy didnt. We are ranking a superior player...behind worse ones...who didnt even accomplish anything he didnt. Cant eve nsay "Well ___ led his team to the title" in most of these cases.

Its little more than emotion and what "feels right" in some of these comparisons.

Kblaze, who are your top 5 favorite players? You mentioned Pippen was #2, I thought MJ and Bird were your two favorites...but maybe I misread something you wrote. Thanks.

Scottie gets my #2 because he was a Bull. My top 5 if I disregard my fanhood is something like:

Jordan
Bird
Pippen
Magic
Hakeem

Isiah in there somewhere. Shaq as well. Duncan next tier.

But really...my favorites period?

1.Jordan
2.Pippen
3.Gervin. I was at like....20 Bulls games in 86 and he was my favorite player then...and the second nicest NBA player I ever met after:
4.BJ Armstrong. Nicest athlete ive spoken to. Really easy to root for.
5.Bird

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]Scottie gets my #2 because he was a Bull. My top 5 if I disregard my fanhood is something like:

Jordan
Bird
Pippen
Magic
Hakeem

Isiah in there somewhere. Shaq as well. Duncan next tier.

But really...my favorites period?

1.Jordan
2.Pippen
3.Gervin. I was at like....20 Bulls games in 86 and he was my favorite player then...and the second nicest NBA player I ever met after:
4.BJ Armstrong. Nicest athlete ive spoken to. Really easy to root for.
5.Bird[/QUOTE]

Thanks. Glad to see someone besides die-hard Pistons fans giving Isiah props. I always felt like he was sort of disregarded because so many people didn't like him. I've heard greats like Jerry West say they thought Dumars was better. And since his retirement, he's been pushed a little bit further down most people's list than I think he should be. He was a hell of a competitor who willingly changed his game from offensive showman to win championships in the same era that MJ, Magic and Bird were all playing at or near the top of their abilities.