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[QUOTE=joewait]Dirk's better than Bird, in an absolute sense already, Kobe is better than Jordan[/QUOTE]
So now i see how it works. We take 2 of the biggest chokers from last season and put them above all time greats.
That makes a lot of sense. Sorry did not realize it earlier.
No superstar gets guarded literally one on one for an entire game. its a 5 on 5 game. When one guy has it the 4 guys who arent assigned to him dont just ignore him. Prince, Bowen, and so on have(by Kobes standards) shut Kobe down from time to time just like Tmac did to Dirk and say.....Cato has done to Duncan. The other team having help D ready doesnt mean the guy isnt guarded one on one. It means they are playing nba basketball not a game of 21.
Help D is just a part of the game. Either it can be said Bowen and so on guard Kobe one on one or that Tmac in 05 guarded Dirk one on one or we should just scrap the term and use something else. Long as there are 5 guys on each team there will be guys behind you to help should you get beat. Them not going to the other side of the court for the team to live or die based on keeping a guy in front of you just isnt gonna happen.
[QUOTE]Do you even care about reality when you say things about Dirk?[/QUOTE]
Dude doesn't care about the reality of what he says about basketball in general, period. Never makes any substantial arguements ever...
I'm still laughing at the "Bird missed alot of shots" statement. Just showed the ignorance... (Mf'er was a career 50% shooter, damn near 40% from 3 If I'm correct) comments...:roll:
I learned not to take Joewait all that serious with his comments towards Lebron. "Lebron is NOT a top 10 player"...
Joewait, c'mon for once dude.. Engage in any actual rational basketbal discussion [I]for once[/I] with some substantial points brought to the table and not some retarded ****. I know you can do it.....
The kind of loaded roster the Mavs had, it os an absolute disgrace what the choker Dirk did in the finals.
Hmm let me see Dirk is already above Bird so Let us assume he actualy performed well and won the championship. then i would have to put Dirk at all time Number #1.
up until the NBA finals i have been a d-wade supporter/fan, but now i just dont like the guy.
If the Mavs ever win the title Joe might actually get himself banned with the insane things he will start to preach.
How much stupider can his statements get?
[QUOTE=Targus™]up until the NBA finals i have been a d-wade supporter/fan, but now i just dont like the guy.[/QUOTE]
I've seen this multiple times now...And I don't understand.
For starters, how does 1 series steer your [B]personal[/B] perception of a player? That kinda pusszling to me..
I'm a long time Heat fan, and of course a big Dwyane Wade fan, and Wade did get the benefit of the doubt on alot of calls as I can admit. Game 5 especially.
But It seems that people are annoyed of Wade's foul calls but not nesacarily looking at the events that transpired in the Finals from a rational point of view...
Dwyane Wade with his style of play, very similar to Iverson is going to go the line alot. ALOT. The dude drives to the basket with reckless abandon, relentlessy. That very style of play dicates the judement of calls to be in his favor in alot of instances...
[B]ESPECIALY GIVEN THE RULE CHANGES THAT GREATLY BENEFIT PERIMETER ORIENTED PLAYERS IN TODAYS LEAGUE[/B].
The Dallas Mavericks were shooting jumpshots...Point blank, period. That is undebatable(stats support with the Points in the Paint diffrential). They thought they could win the 'Chip shooting jumpshots, and it backfired like a mf'er.
They did not take advatange of the soft tough fouls that were being call in that series, they shot jumpshots..
Why is this so hard to comprehend?
[QUOTE=Younggrease]I didnt say Dirk was soft because he lost the 2-0 lead. Dirk is soft for a bunch of things, the way he blames every1 else, and throws teammates under the bus in the media. The way he sucks on defense, and has to hide. The way he cant score on HAslem. The way he is 7 foot and wont even post up Steve NAsh. There are a hundred reasons Dirk is soft.[/QUOTE]
Kinda like Kobe threw Shaq under the bus? Or how Kobe got his **** swated by DJ Mbenga? Or how he quits during Game 7's in a series he's up 3-1?
Almost as many reasons why your boy Kobe is soft too.
"How much stupider can his statements get?"
Id bet near anything if the Mavs win the title he will claim Dirk is the greatest player in NBA history. If hes willing to put him over Bird now and Kobe over Jordan....and Dirk over Kobe....its not that huge a jump to make.
Well, we can already knock Bird and Jordan out of his consideration, so he might think so already. If he doesn't have respect for Bird and Jordan's comp., I don't think he's putting Wilt or Russell at the top of his list either.
It's tough arguing with people who seemingly have no education.
I think it's hilarious that people are trashing Dirk when he had a far better season and playoffs than Wade.. without having near the players around him that Wade has.
I GURANTEE YOU that if Dirk was doing what Wade was doing on the Heaqt everyone would be saying how loaded the Heat are and Dirk is just lucky to have such a great team.
And, conversely, if Wade did what Dirk did on the Mavs people would be saying how Wade makes his worthless team better.
Juyst like if Dirk was doing what Kobe is doing on the Lakers.. people would say Odom was the real MVP of that team. Just like when Nick Van Exel was on the Mavs an everyone said he was the Mavs true MVP.
Dirk is the MOST underrated player in the history of the league.
And you can be certain the fact that no white player has led a team to championship since Bird is the reason for this. And that was 20 years ago.
Kobe is presently better than Jordan, I think that's what Joewait is trying to say but your senses are probably clouded with whatever.
How many dumbasses can you have in 1 thread?
[QUOTE]It's tough arguing with people who seemingly have no education.[/QUOTE]
Naw, arguing with you is pretty easy.
[QUOTE]when Nick Van Exel was on the Mavs an everyone said he was the Mavs true MVP.[/QUOTE]
Thats flat out...and inarguably...not true.
Why must Dirk fans take thing to the extreme? Its not like it helps prove a point. It just makes it easier to dismiss anything else they say.
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]Thats flat out...and inarguably...not true.
Why must Dirk fans take everything to the extreme?[/QUOTE]
Like hell that isn't true. I have all those games on tape.. every announcer said Nick Van Exel was the MVP of the Mavs when we went to the WCF. It can't even be argued. It's a fact. It's funny how people forget all the stupid sh!t that is said and believed. Just like if you said Dirk was as good or better than KG 2 seasons ago you would have been laughed off the internet. Same thing if you said Nash was close to Jason Kidd.
[QUOTE=LakersDynasty]How many dumbasses can you have in 1 thread?[/QUOTE]
Think man, use your brain and it won't be hard to realize why the statement "Kobe is presently better than Jordan" is categorically true.
Wade shouldn't thank Dirk for the ring. He should thank the refs for it.
Only player in history who won a finals MVP with no memorable plays, just memorable free throws.
95% of NBA fans agree Wade undeserving of the treatment he got. And the other 5% are Heat fans or Kobe groupies (Knoeitawl, AAP, etc)
[QUOTE=Jerm]Think man, use your brain and it won't be hard to realize why the statement "Kobe is presently better than Jordan" is categorically true.[/QUOTE]
I hope that's sarcasm......
[QUOTE]Like hell that isn't true. I have all those games on tape.. every announcer said Nick Van Exel was the MVP of the Mavs when we went to the WCF. It can't even be argued. It's a fact.[/QUOTE]
I watched a Mavs/Pacers(think it was pacers) game recently from 03 where Bill walton said Steve Nash was the MVP of the league. If only for that what you said isnt true. I also notice that Dirk got 43 points in MVP voting to Nicks 0. Including a second place vote. nash got 1 5th place vote. If Dirk got 43 points to Nicks 0 how did everyone think Nick was the Mavs MVP? I'll tell you. It didnt happen. If anyone thought Nick was MVP of the Mavs it was in the context of a single game he stepped up in. And anyone can be the key player in a game. Or even a series.
[QUOTE]It funny how people forget all the stupid sh!t that is said and believed. Just like if you said Dirk was as good or better than KG 2 seasons ago you would have been laughed off the internet.[/QUOTE]
Ive been on ISH since the 01-02 season and the KG/Dirk argument never went away. Even when KG won MVP there was a large number of people saying they wouldnt beat the Nuggets in first round and so on. Even when KG had that great game 7 scoring every one of his teams field goals in the 4th and having 30+20+ that very night there were Dirk or KG arguments.
[QUOTE]Same thing if you said Nash was close to Jason Kidd.[/QUOTE]
Maybe a third of the board had Marbury as the best point in the league back then and Nash did get some mentions too. Less of course. But some.
[QUOTE=LakersDynasty]I hope that's sarcasm......[/QUOTE]
Geez...How smarter can you get?
If I give you Jordan and Kobe today, who will you choose to play for your team?...Figure it out yourself!...Please show me you're smarter, PLEASE!
[QUOTE=TMacsOneGoodEye]Wade shouldn't thank Dirk for the ring. He should thank the refs for it.
Only player in history who won a finals MVP with no memorable plays, just memorable free throws.
95% of NBA fans agree Wade undeserving of the treatment he got. And the other 5% are Heat fans or Kobe groupies (Knoeitawl, AAP, etc)[/QUOTE]
I would still like to sincerely thank Dirk for the choke job.
as for the referees making the mavs lose. :cry:
[QUOTE=LakersDynasty]I hope that's sarcasm......[/QUOTE]
I think he means that 28 yr old Kobe is better than 45 yr old Jordan.
Dirk is not overrated his is rated right where he should be. About 5 or 6 in the league. Dude plays no defense and has played on stacked teams and was never able to get a championship and only managed 1 finals apperance. You would think after TMAC layed the blueprint on how to stop Dirk, he would expand his game, obviously he didnt.
Until Dirk gets a post game, he will get shut down when it matters by the same type of defense the Rockets and HEat played.
Just put a player tall and agile. Like TMAC, Ryan Bowen, Jefferies, HAslem and have them contest his jumpers and be physical with him. Then he is taken out of his game.
[QUOTE=Jerm]Geez...How smarter can you get?
If I give you Jordan and Kobe today, who will you choose to play for your team?...Figure it out yourself!...Please show me you're smarter, PLEASE![/QUOTE]
I don't know what the **** you're trying to get at but I never said Kobe was better than Jordan, everything you said is pointless, go argue with Joewait since he's the one that made that statement.
This fool Wade is so full of himself. :no:
[QUOTE=Younggrease]I think he means that 28 yr old Kobe is better than 45 yr old Jordan.
[/QUOTE]
Wow...we have a genius amongst us. LakersDynasty, that wasn't that hard now, wass it?
Don't worry, Spurs will bring Wade back to earth
[QUOTE=Jerm]Wow...we have a genius amongst us. LakersDynasty, that wasn't that hard now, wass it?[/QUOTE]
No sir, thank you for teaching me a lesson. :bowdown:
[b] If anyone thought Nick was MVP of the Mavs it was in the context of a single game he stepped up in. And anyone can be the key player in a game. Or even a series.[/b]
I am tlaking aobut for the playoff run in 2002-2003. When the MAvs went to the WCF.. everyone unanimoulsy said Van Exel was the MVP.. which is just exactly as stupid as saying Wade is MVP with Shaq on his team.
[b]Ive been on ISH since the 01-02 season and the KG/Dirk argument never went away. Even when KG won MVP there was a large number of people saying they wouldnt beat the Nuggets in first round and so on. [/b]
That's not what the media would have said. The media would have unanimously said KG was better than Dirk.. KG has an MVP and what has he done to deserve it? Statpad? That's aobut it. Dirk truly deserved MVP the past 2 seasons and didn't get it. But now finally after leading his team to the Finals he might get some respect.. but there are still people who would say KG is better. Yet if KG just led a team to the Finals NO one would be saying Dirk was better. It's pretty simple to udnerstand..
[b]Maybe a third of the board had Marbury as the best point in the league back then and Nash did get some mentions too. Less of course. But some.[/b]
The point remains though.. that Dirk and Nash were both incredibly underrated because of their race.. and STILL are. You think that's just going to go away? And it took very very very special circumstances for Nash to get the credit he did for the Suns.Nahs also has an advantage over Dirk in that his game is much more flashy and conventional than Dirk's.
Nash won 2 MVPs (which he did NOT deserve) and he's underrated because of his race? Incredible.
[QUOTE=FabCasablancas]Nahs also has an advantage over Dirk in that his game is much more flashy and conventional than Dirk's.[/QUOTE]
Wow conventional and flashy at the same time. Interesting
[QUOTE]Thank you Dirk. Allowing people to slice through may just win you a championship one day. Good strategy. And you followed it for [I][B]7[/B][/I] games in a row. Excellent.[/QUOTE]
good counting
[b]Dirk is not overrated his is rated right where he should be. About 5 or 6 in the league.[/b]
Why 5 or 6? Why not numbe rone? Because he's white? He can only be 5 or 6? Who is better than him? some young players that have never done anything on their own?
[b]Dude plays no defense[/b]
Like Kobe, Wade and LeBron play any defense? At least Dirk rebounds.. something Wade, Kobe and LeBron don't do.
[b]and has played on stacked teams[/b]
Kobe played on far far far more stacked teams than Dirk as Did Wade.. even LeBron has a great great team around him. Wade had Sha and Zo. and Walker.. just ridiculous.
[b]and was never able to get a championship and only managed 1 finals apperance.[/b]
Without any decent bigman.. what else could be expected?
[b]You would think after TMAC layed the blueprint on how to stop Dirk, he would expand his game, obviously he didnt.[/b]
He only expanded it enough to beat the Spurs.. Dirk doesn't need to expand his game.. his teamamtes do.. they can't do anyhting.. they can't shoot.. can't defend.. his team stinks.
[b]Until Dirk gets a post game, he will get shut down when it matters by the same type of defense the Rockets and HEat played.[[/b]
Until he gets a better tema around him you mean. Like Dirk couldn't wina championship with Shaq on his team.. please..
[b]Just put a player tall and agile. Like TMAC, Ryan Bowen, Jefferies, HAslem and have them contest his jumpers and be physical with him. Then he is taken out of his game.[/b]
And just surround him with teammates that can't hit a wide open shot..
[QUOTE=FabCasablancas][b] If anyone thought Nick was MVP of the Mavs it was in the context of a single game he stepped up in. And anyone can be the key player in a game. Or even a series.[/b]
I am tlaking aobut for the playoff run in 2002-2003. When the MAvs went to the WCF.. everyone unanimoulsy said Van Exel was the MVP.. which is just exactly as stupid as saying Wade is MVP with Shaq on his team.
[b]Ive been on ISH since the 01-02 season and the KG/Dirk argument never went away. Even when KG won MVP there was a large number of people saying they wouldnt beat the Nuggets in first round and so on. [/b]
That's not what the media would have said. The media would have unanimously said KG was better than Dirk.. KG has an MVP and what has he done to deserve it? Statpad? That's aobut it. Dirk truly deserved MVP the past 2 seasons and didn't get it. But now finally after leading his team to the Finals he might get some respect.. but there are still people who would say KG is better. Yet if KG just led a team to the Finals NO one would be saying Dirk was better. It's pretty simple to udnerstand..
[b]Maybe a third of the board had Marbury as the best point in the league back then and Nash did get some mentions too. Less of course. But some.[/b]
The point remains though.. that Dirk and Nash were both incredibly underrated because of their race.. and STILL are. You think that's just going to go away? And it took very very very special circumstances for Nash to get the credit he did for the Suns.Nahs also has an advantage over Dirk in that his game is much more flashy and conventional than Dirk's.[/QUOTE]
If Dirk and NAsh are so great. Than why no finals apperances. Im sure if you put Tim Duncan and Kobe Bryant or Lebron or Wade on the same team and surround them with the talent they have they would have a couple championships.
Why couldnt these great players get it done???? You said this guy is better than Bird, and Nash is the best pg in the league and you give them former all stars in their prime and they cant eeven get to the finals
Also Dirk has guys that can make shots. Jason Terry shots over 40% from 3, Howard over 40%. Stackhouse has a decent jumper as well.
[QUOTE=sic]Wow conventional and flashy at the same time. Interesting[/QUOTE]
How are those contradictory? Nash palys the point guard position conventionally. He is a pass first point guard. Dirk plays power forward like a shooting guard. Nash's passing game is more entertaining than a jumpshooter.
[QUOTE=FabCasablancas]
Like [B]Kobe,[/B] Wade and LeBron play any defense? At least Dirk rebounds.. something Wade, Kobe and LeBron don't do.
Kobe played on far far far more stacked teams than Dirk as Did Wade.. even LeBron has a great great team around him. Wade had Sha and Zo. and [B]Walker[/B].. just ridiculous.
He only expanded it enough to beat the Spurs.. Dirk doesn't need to expand his game.. his teamamtes do.. they can't do anyhting.. they can't shoot.. can't defend.. his team stinks.
And just surround him with teammates that can't hit a wide open shot..[/QUOTE]
:roll: All defensive first team for the fourth time and he plays no defense? Walker is a great player to have on your team? Lebron has better teammates than Dirk? Dumb****.
How is Wade being full of himself and how is that "trash-talking"? He simply responded to Dirk's little comment. What did you expect him to say? Admit that it was Dallas' crappy D that was truly Finals MVP and not him? :rolleyes: You haters gotta come stronger than that.
Success just breeds hate I guess. Kobe knows about that. Now, the Wade-hatred bandwagon is at full force... although Kobe haters will always outnumber any other hater group in the NBA (probably more to do with the fact that he's a smug jerk though).
[QUOTE]Like [B]Kobe[/B], Wade and LeBron play any defense? At least Dirk rebounds.. something Wade, Kobe and LeBron don't do.[/QUOTE]
wow...just wow