Dirk. Neither are good defenders, Gasol is the better rebounder, but isn't half as skilled on offense, even though Dirk takes the biggest amount of lazy shots by any player ever.
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Dirk. Neither are good defenders, Gasol is the better rebounder, but isn't half as skilled on offense, even though Dirk takes the biggest amount of lazy shots by any player ever.
[QUOTE=magnax1]Dirk. Neither are good defenders, Gasol is the better rebounder, but isn't half as skilled on offense, even though Dirk takes the biggest amount of lazy shots by any player ever.[/QUOTE]
You are wrong on many counts, except taking Dirk.
1) Gasol is a decent defender. I'd even call him a good one as of late. Pick n roll defense is good, rebounding is good, help defense is good.
2) Gasol is just as skilled as Dirk, maybe even more so. He is a less prolific scorer, but not any less skilled. Watch them play, please. Gasol is also the better passer of the two.
I'd take Dirk, too, but not for the reasons you stated.
[QUOTE=elementally morale]You are wrong on many counts, except taking Dirk.
1) Gasol is a decent defender. I'd even call him a good one as of late. Pick n roll defense is good, rebounding is good, help defense is good.
2) Gasol is just as skilled as Dirk, maybe even more so. He is a less prolific scorer, but not any less skilled. Watch them play, please. Gasol is also the better passer of the two.
I'd take Dirk, too, but not for the reasons you stated.[/QUOTE]
I forgot about passing, and Gasol does win that, but Gasol is in no way a good defender. Hes good at contesting shots, and hes above average at pick and roll D, but he gets backed down in the post waaaaay to easy. And Gasol is not as skilled as Dirk, Dirk can do everything that Gasol can do + shoot jumpers better than almost anyone in the league. Even though he doesn't use alot of that skill enough, he still has it.
[QUOTE=magnax1]And Gasol is not as skilled as Dirk[/QUOTE]
Well, I disagree. Skillwise, Gasol is up there with the best of them. And he has become a better than average (=good) defender. Not excellent, but like 7.5 on a scale of 10.
But I'll leave it at that, we can agree to disagree.
[QUOTE=magnax1]I forgot about passing, and Gasol does win that, but [B]Gasol is in no way a good defender[/B]. Hes good at contesting shots, and hes above average at pick and roll D, but he gets backed down in the post waaaaay to easy. And Gasol is not as skilled as Dirk, Dirk can do everything that Gasol can do + shoot jumpers better than almost anyone in the league. Even though he doesn't use alot of that skill enough, he still has it.[/QUOTE]
Defensive Rating (pts allowed in 100 posessions)
Gasol: 97
Garnett: 97
Dwight: 97
Perkins: 97
Oden: 97
Bynum: 99
Duncan: 101
Dirk: 101
Noah: 103
Amare: 109
Bosh: 113
[QUOTE=D-Rose]Defensive Rating (pts allowed in 100 posessions)
[/QUOTE]
That is one of the most flawed stats. It is greatly influenced by how good your team's defense is. Look at the top 20 in defensive rating:
Defensive Rating
1. Gerald Wallace-CHA 96.0
2. Rasheed Wallace-BOS 96.1
3. Lamar Odom-LAL 96.5
4. Pau Gasol-LAL 96.8
5. Greg Oden-POR 97.1
6. Kendrick Perkins-BOS 97.1
7. Dwight Howard-ORL 97.4
8. Kevin Garnett-BOS 97.4
9. Josh Smith-ATL 97.8
10. Rajon Rondo-BOS 97.9
11. Marcus Camby-LAC 98.1
12. Kobe Bryant-LAL 98.6
13. Andrew Bynum-LAL 98.7
14. Erick Dampier-DAL 99.0
15. Joel Przybilla-POR 99.1
16. Tyson Chandler-CHA 99.7
17. Andrew Bogut-MIL 99.7
18. Anderson Varejao-CLE 100.1
19. Tim Duncan-SAS 100.6
20. Derek Fisher-LAL 100.7
Does Boston really have four of the ten best defenders? LA four of the top 12 and five of the top 20? Note that Charlotte has two as does Portland.
Team's defensive rankings
Boston: 2nd
Charlotte: 3rd
Portland: 8th (probably higher when Oden played)
Cleveland: 4th
Lakers: 1st
Atlanta: 10th
Spurs: 11th
Clippers: 13th
Milwaukee: 6th
So other than former DPOY's Camby and Duncan everyone else on the list plays for a top 10 defense. According to defensive rating 45% of the NBA's top 20 defenders happen to play on just two teams.
Want more proof? Gasol himself. His defensive rating was 111 in 2007-08 when he was in Memphis but 105 when he was in LA. Memphis was 28th in defense, LA 5th. Unfortunately there is no reliable stat to gauge defense. Defensive win shares and defensive rating are very flawed.
Gasol is a good defender, though, imo and better than Dirk. However, Dirk is much better than Gasol offensively. There is reason why he has all those all-NBA selections and Gasol barely squeaked onto the third team once (when elite PF's Amare, Boozer and KG--all who were all-NBA the year before--were hurt).
Pau in the span of 2 years has become the most overrated player on this board. By far. You'd think he was Hakeem mixed with David Robinson reading some of these comments.
How has Pau gotten better in the last two years that he can be mentioned in the elite power forwards of the league? What has he added to his game? For me, it's a question of who. And that who, is Kobe. Lets not forget that Pau was 0-12 in the playoffs without Kobe.
Dirk might have had an embarrassing first round outing in 2007, but its not that bad compared to the fact that Pau could not lead his team to 1 victory in the post season. Yet, now somehow people would take him over Duncan, Dirk, and KG...for what reason.. I don't know.
[QUOTE=Hyman]Which was the level of spanish basketball before the arrival of Gasol? What would be the level of the spanish NT without Gasol?
With Gasol being a leader and a bunch of scrubs, Memphis made 3 consecutive playoff appearances. Thats a huge succes for a team like them
Moreover Gasol is not today the player he was back in 06. He has evolved a lot, specially in toughness and defense. I dont think that Nowitzki today is a very different player to the one of 06[/QUOTE]
Wow. You sure as hell don't know much about Euro ball to make an asinine comparison like that. Do you know just how weak basketball is in Germany? Frigging handball is more popular. It was a major accomplishment for Dirk to just lead them to an Olympics berth.
[QUOTE=kentatm]Wow. You sure as hell don't know much about Euro ball to make an asinine comparison like that. Do you know just how weak basketball is in Germany? Frigging handball is more popular. It was a major accomplishment for Dirk to just lead them to an Olympics berth.[/QUOTE]
Yeah. Basketball is very low on the list in Germany.
The fact that it is even debatable here is telling of how moronic some people on this board are. Dirk is head and shoulders above Gasol.
The arguments I hear here are that Gasol is a better fundamental power forward than Dirk, which although true, is a moot point. Carlos Boozer and Chris Bosh are also more prototypical at the PF position than Dirk, but they are no where close to him as a player.
Gasol has played great on a team with Kobe Bryant, a terrific coach, and a terrific team. I don't know how you can even conjure up the nerve to say Gasol is near Dirk when you look at how they performed as #1 options. Dirk is a 25 and 11 producer in the playoffs, with 2 WCF Finals appearances, an NBA Finals appearance, and has been on 3 60 win teams. Remember, this is an the #1 option and on two of those teams he had Josh Howard as the second best player. I think most would agree that Howard isn't even a top 20 player in this league.
Compare that to Gasol, who as stated was 0-12 in the playoffs and was traded for garbage as "his" Memphis Grizzlies went down the tubes under his leadership. The comparison alone is mindboggling here. There is one factor that makes this an argument on this board:
1) Gasol is a Laker
It's a fact. And if Chris Bosh was a Laker he'd probably put up some great numbers as well, you switch him with Gasol and I guarantee you that team still has more than a good chance at the championship. Instead, Gasol is being raised to the pantheon of great power forwards in this league and Bosh is swept on the rug on a bad team.
This is a joke of a thread and a joke of a comparison. Dirk is the most dynamic scoring power forward this league has ever seen. Gasol is a very good player who is on a great team, playing with a top 5 player in the league. Time to stop kidding ourselves. Dirk by a mile.
^^ Well aren't you Mr know it all...
Comparing 2 absolutely diferent type of players just becosue they are same tall is never fair. a Duncan Gasol wodl have been more fair as both play PF/C type of game.
as in terms of career I would give the edge to Dirk clearly.
But people tend to look at the career while I looking at current season (his peak) and last one.
People will never forget his 0/12 playoffs while forget the big suceed that was to reach beign there with the team he had in a stacked West.
He has been improved everysingle year till today.
his defense has been amazingly improving (amazingly) since last season. why I can't see more people talking about his defense on superman on the finals is something I can't understand as it was nothing but legendary. he totally shut him down all by himself. and right now he is a good to very good defender.
Better than Dirk? I don't think so, but different kind of player he is.
Better than KG [B]THIS[/B] year he is for sure.
But if some people do talk about how good gasol is (which he is), I don't see the need for other dirks, tims, kevins, etc fans to hurry up to say he is not, it does not mean your boys are any worse.
Answer to the main question: Dirk. all of you guys have pointed out the reasons already. In any case, this question will be worth a revisit after the careers of both of them come to an end. that will be interesting. Right now: Dirk. All his NBA achievements are not to be overlooked.
However, I express my total shock at some stupid argument (no way to call it otherwise) about the 0-12 of Gasol in the playoffs... as somebody said, leading that team to a playoff is such achievement that speaks out for itself. I mean, where was the Great Kobe in the years in between teaming up with Shaq and now Gasol?? hybernating or something? no, he failed massively year after year cos he was surrounded by scrubs, as much as Gasol was and thats why he asked for a move before the Gasol trade. This means that miracles dont exist. If a superstar like Kobe cannot make a winner team on his own, you cannot ask Gasol to do that precisely, being him an inferior player.
Really this isnt a comp dirk takes this easily
[QUOTE]However, I express my total shock at some stupid argument (no way to call it otherwise) about the 0-12 of Gasol in the playoffs... as somebody said, leading that team to a playoff is such achievement that speaks out for itself. I mean, where was the Great Kobe in the years in between teaming up with Shaq and now Gasol?? hybernating or something? no, he failed massively year after year cos he was surrounded by scrubs, as much as Gasol was and thats why he asked for a move before the Gasol trade.[/QUOTE]
Weak argument. The analogy depends on Kobe (or any number of other legends, including Jordan, that you could use) having a similarly bad team as Gasol. Gasol was on teams that won 50 games without an all-star. Kobe was on teams that had the best or second best player in the league and won 45 games. If Gasol is as good as alleged he should have been worth a few playoff wins. Scrubs? His contemporaries Garnett and Bosh led similarly mediocre teams to playoff wins. The best or second best PF in the game is not worth a single playoff win? Gasol was outplayed by Duncan, Marion (Amare also had a better series than Gasol), and Dirk during each series. If he played better his team would have won a game or two.
[QUOTE=KG5MVP]this post is as pointless as a MJ vs. corey brewer comparison[/QUOTE]
No I would have to say its more of an MJ to Barkley comparison.
is it possible that dirk is the better first option but gasol is the better second option?.... hmmmm.
[QUOTE=LA_Showtime]is it possible that dirk is the better first option but gasol is the better second option?.... hmmmm.[/QUOTE]
Unfair statement because no one knows how effective of a second option Dirk could be...
[QUOTE=Dave3]Unfair statement because no one knows how effective of a second option Dirk could be...[/QUOTE]
i was asking a question. i hardly qualify that as a statement.
[QUOTE=LA_Showtime]is it possible that dirk is the better first option but gasol is the better second option?.... hmmmm.[/QUOTE]
What logic is this based on? I have heard several posters say this and I don't understand it. Would you rather have Gasol as your #2 option than Lebron because Gasol has done well as the #2 option and Lebron is an unknown in that role?
This "option" stuff is vastly overrated on ISH. When Jordan retired Pippen took one more shot a game. In other words, on the court his role was basically the same as it was with Jordan. Pippen himself has said this. Did that extra shot make him a better player?
[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock]What logic is this based on? I have heard several posters say this and I don't understand it. Would you rather have Gasol as your #2 option than Lebron because Gasol has done well as the #2 option and Lebron is an unknown in that role?
This "option" stuff is vastly overrated on ISH. When Jordan retired Pippen took one more shot a game. In other words, on the court his role was basically the same as it was with Jordan. Pippen himself has said this. Did that extra shot make him a better player?[/QUOTE]
it was brought up to bring discussion. notice the question mark.
I know. I am not asking you in particular but the half a dozen or so posters in this thread who have said they would rather have Gasol as their #2. It is a good question.
[QUOTE=LA_Showtime]i was asking a question. i hardly qualify that as a statement.[/QUOTE]
Oh, I thought it was sarcasm, like you were stating something by asking a question that seemed obvious. My bad
I like Gasol, and he fits into the Triangle really well. Having said that, ARE YOU F"NG KIDDING ME?!? Dirk on the Lakers would be, as I have said in the past, redirkulous.
[QUOTE=elementally morale]Dirk is a top 5 player this year, Gasol is top10. There is the answer: Dirk is better. Speaking of their careers, NBA-wise it's Dirk. In the FIBA compteitions it's Gasol, due to having had a better team. (Both of them play very well at international events.) [/quote]
Dirk has easily played better in most FIBA competitions. Pau isn't even demanding half the defensive attention Dirk is, be it FIBA or NBA games.
[quote] Defensively, Pau is better and he is a bit more efficient with the ball. [/quote]
how in bloody hell is Pau more efficient with the ball than Dirk. Are you aware of Dirk's ridiculously low TO rates considering that he is the #1 option on his team for years? Even as the #2 option alongside Kobe and one of the most stacked teams of this decade Pau is averaging more TOs than Dirk.
[quote]
Still, overall I take Dirk. He is a top50 player of all time for sure. Let's see how he ends his career to get into more details.[/QUOTE]
Dirk is a top 30 player of all time as of right now, and top 5 this past decade.
[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock]Who is the better player? He has had the better career thus far? Who had the better peak? They play the same position and are similar in age (Dirk is 31, Gasol 29).
[B][U]Dirk Nowitzki[/U][/B]
2007 MVP
4x all-NBA first team
3x all-NBA second team
2x all-NBA third team
3x Top 3 in MVP voting
7x top 10 in MVP voting
8x all-star
Led his team to nine straight 50+ win seasons
[B][U]Pau Gasol
[/U][/B]
1x all-NBA third team
2x all-star
2002 Rookie of the Year
2009 NBA champion
[B]Stats[/B]
[U]Dirk[/U]
Career: 23/9/3
Peak: 27/9/3 (probably not his best season but statistically his best year)
[U]Pau[/U]
Career: 19/9/3
Peak: 21/10/3 (not his best season but statistically his best year)
I go with Dirk for all three. Dirk is top 40 all-time imo.[/QUOTE]
Dirk... what an easy question to answer
I'm not sure Dirk is Top 30. But Simmons is amending what he said earlier in his own book:
[quote]To answer your rankings question about my book from five tangents ago, I have many small regrets (to be expected) and one big one: Putting Iverson (No. 29) too high. That was the one Pyramid-related instance of my affection for someone clouding my judgment to some degree. If I could do it over again, Level 3 of the Pyramid would start with George Mikan at No. 36, then the George Gervin/Sam Jones combo, then Iverson at No. 33, then Kevin McHale, then Dave Cowens and Willis Reed. But as I rattle off this group again, I'm realizing that Dirk (the league's best clutch scorer and its third most important player behind LeBron and Kobe) and Nash (having a vintage Nash season and reinventing the whole "D'Antoni's offense made Nash" argument to the point that you could make a much better case that Nash made D'Antoni) are enjoying such renaissances that they might have bulldozed their way into Level 3. So maybe Nash jumps to No. 36 and Dirk vaults past Iverson to No. 32.[/quote]
[QUOTE]how in bloody hell is Pau more efficient with the ball than Dirk.[/QUOTE]
By shooting a higher % and having more assists. That is offensive efficiency with the ball in your hand.
[QUOTE]Dirk has easily played better in most FIBA competitions.[/QUOTE]
I said both of them played well and Pau had more success. What's wrong with this assessment?
[QUOTE]
Dirk is a top 30 player of all time as of right now[/QUOTE]
If I put everyone in the top 30 people claim is a top 30 player, I'd have like 50-60 players there already. I'm not saying it's out of the question Dirk will be top 30 when it's all said and done, but I find it hard to make a place for him there for now. Top 40 is more like it, I think. But let's wait until he finishes his career and rate him then.
[quote=Locked_Up_Tonight]I'm not sure Dirk is Top 30. But Simmons is amending what he said earlier in his own book:[/quote]Is there a link to BS's all time NBA Ranking list?
[QUOTE=vert48]Is there a link to BS's all time NBA Ranking list?[/QUOTE]
He changed it two times since the book got published. Moved Shaq futher down and Kobe up for example. He should have wated a few more years until Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Garnett, Iverson et al. retire to be able to make better, longer-lasting standings.
[quote=elementally morale]He changed it two times since the book got published. Moved Shaq futher down and Kobe up for example. He should have wated a few more years until Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Garnett, Iverson et al. retire to be able to make better, longer-lasting standings.[/quote]It is always going to be a moving target. Link to current list?
[QUOTE=vert48]It is always going to be a moving target. Link to current list?[/QUOTE]
I have only his top 10 (now top 11) at hand. When the book came out it was:
10. Hakeem Olajuwon
09. Oscar Robertson
08. Jerry West
07. Tim Duncan
06. Wilt Chamberlain
05. Larry Bird
04. Magic Johnson
03. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
02. Bill Russell
01. Michael Jordan
And Shaq was at #12 and Kobe at #15. Simmons wrote a few weeks ago that he puts Kobe at #9 now and is thinking of pushing Shaq a bit down.
[QUOTE=elementally morale]By shooting a higher % and having more assists. That is offensive efficiency with the ball in your hand. [/quote]
you're not saying he is a better offensive player, are you? He shoots a higher percentage basically because he isn't a #1 option anymore and shoots less overall, not because he is a better scorer.
Anyways, I can't believe we're really comparing a go-to guy superstar to a complimentary offensive player. Pau was never really good enough to have the role of a Dirk, Kobe, Wade offensively, which is why he has never taken more than 15.4 shots per game, which he did on 48% shooting. Despite Gasols great passing, Dirk is pretty easily and obviously the better offensive player.
[quote]
I said both of them played well and Pau had more success. What's wrong with this assessment?[/quote]
we're ranking individual players here, and Pau simply had far better teammates, which is the only reason he has won more than Dirk. Dirk lead Germany, a team with no other relevant international player, to a silver medal at ECs and a bronze medal at WCs.
[quote]
If I put everyone in the top 30 people claim is a top 30 player, I'd have like 50-60 players there already. I'm not saying it's out of the question Dirk will be top 30 when it's all said and done, but I find it hard to make a place for him there for now. Top 40 is more like it, I think. But let's wait until he finishes his career and rate him then.[/QUOTE]
Dirk is pretty much in that Clyde Drexler category or even higher, depends on how much value his MVP and leading the league in PER twice. And we surely do agree that Drexler is top 30 at the very least.
[QUOTE]you're not saying he is a better offensive player, are you?[/QUOTE]
No, I'm not. I'm saying he is more efficient with the ball in his hand. It's like saying Nash is more efficient with the ball in his hand than Kobe Bryant is. it is true, and it still wont't make nash a better offensive player (he is on par though or very very close, I have to admit).
[QUOTE]Dirk is pretty easily and obviously the better offensive player.[/QUOTE]
Noone argued otherwise, I have certainly not. Dirk is the better offensive player, yes. And Gasol is the better defensive player. Dirk had better teammates in the NBA, resulting is more success as the #1. Gasol had better teammates in FIBA, resulting in more success as the #1.
With all this said, I'd take Dirk as well (as I said here more than once). I just don't think the difference is huge.
[QUOTE]
Dirk is pretty much in that Clyde Drexler category[/QUOTE]
Maybe. I saw Drexler play... I'm not sure, but it's not out of the question.
[QUOTE]we surely do agree that Drexler is top 30 at the very least.[/QUOTE]
We don't. He is borderline top 30, but I'd put him a bit lower.
[quote=elementally morale]I have only his top 10 (now top 11) at hand. When the book came out it was:
10. Hakeem Olajuwon
09. Oscar Robertson
08. Jerry West
07. Tim Duncan
06. Wilt Chamberlain
05. Larry Bird
04. Magic Johnson
03. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
02. Bill Russell
01. Michael Jordan
And Shaq was at #12 and Kobe at #15. Simmons wrote a few weeks ago that he puts Kobe at #9 now and is thinking of pushing Shaq a bit down.[/quote]Interesting. Simmons said last year at the All-Star break that Kobe would be top 10 if he won the title that year. He assumed either the Cavs or Celtics would beat the Lakers without Bynum at full strength, but then had to make good on his quote after people called him on it when the book came out.
[QUOTE=vert48]Interesting. Simmons said last year at the All-Star break that Kobe would be top 10 if he won the title that year. He assumed either the Cavs or Celtics would beat the Lakers without Bynum at full strength, but then had to make good on his quote after people called him on it when the book came out.[/QUOTE]
I still don't get it though. Shaq won 4, Kobe won 4. Shaq was the most important player in 3 out of those 4, yet Shaq is #12 and slipping. While he was also more dominant in his prime than Kobe ever was (or ever will be).
I can see why someone would have Kobe ahead of Shaq if #24 wins a few more rings, but right now?
It makes no sense to me.
[QUOTE=elementally morale]
Noone argued otherwise, I have certainly not. Dirk is the better offensive player, yes. And Gasol is the better defensive player. Dirk had better teammates in the NBA, resulting is more success as the #1. Gasol had better teammates in FIBA, resulting in more success as the #1.
With all this said, I'd take Dirk as well (as I said here more than once). I just don't think the difference is huge. [/quote]
that makes it sound like teammates are the only relevant factor, ignoring that Dirk has played much better than Gasol throughout their respective careers, regular season, playoffs and also head-to-head matchups.
As long as Gasol does not win as a #1 option in the NBA there will never be an argument for him over Dirk.
[quote]
We don't. He is borderline top 30, but I'd put him a bit lower.[/QUOTE]
Then I'd certainly like to see your list, or at least a selection of non-obvious choices you'd rank over Clyde and Dirk.
[QUOTE=elementally morale]He changed it two times since the book got published. Moved Shaq futher down and Kobe up for example. He should have wated a few more years until Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Garnett, Iverson et al. retire to be able to make better, longer-lasting standings.[/QUOTE]
If he did that he would never be able to write that section of the book because there are always going to be great young players. If he waited for those careers to end he would still have to rate Lebron, Wade, Howard, Paul, and some younger players, like a Durant or Rose, will insert themselves into the conversation.
He moved Shaq down one spot because Kobe moved up to #8.
[QUOTE]Simmons said last year at the All-Star break that Kobe would be top 10 if he won the title that year. He assumed either the Cavs or Celtics would beat the Lakers without Bynum at full strength, but then had to make good on his quote after people called him on it when the book came out.[/QUOTE]
He wrote the rankings section before the playoffs were over. In the epilogue he said Kobe moved up to #8.
[QUOTE]Dirk is pretty much in that Clyde Drexler category or even higher, depends on how much value his MVP and leading the league in PER twice. And we surely do agree that Drexler is top 30 at the very least.[/QUOTE]
Drexler is usually around 40th. Dirk probably is ahead of him and top 40 but top 30 is a stretch, although he may get there by the time he retires. To be top 25-30 he would have to be considered as good and accomplished as players like Jason Kidd, Scottie Pippen, John Stockton, David Robinson, and Kevin Garnett to name some recent players around 25th place on most lists.
[QUOTE]Then I'd certainly like to see your list, or at least a selection of non-obvious choices you'd rank over Clyde and Dirk[/QUOTE]
Me too. He has said Gasol is close to players like Dirk and Pippen. That begs the question: where does he have Gasol? Top 50? Top 60 all-time? Top 75? Does he think Gasol is better than someone like Chris Webber?
[QUOTE=Brunch@Five]As long as Gasol does not win as a #1 option in the NBA there will never be an argument for him over Dirk.[/QUOTE]
OK. But why are you saying this again? I've just said one more time I'd also take Dirk. What else do you want to hear? Should I take him twice?
[QUOTE]Then I'd certainly like to see your list, or at least a selection of non-obvious choices you'd rank over Clyde and Dirk.[/QUOTE]
Someday I may do that list. I'm not keen on such lists though as I have tiers. I'm telling you the first two tiers:
[U]1st tier[/U]
Wilt
Russell
Jordan
Bird
Magic
Kareem
[U]2nd tier[/U]
Hakeem
Shaq
Duncan
Kobe
Oscar
West
That's a dozen guys there. In my next tier are around 15 players. Barkley, Isiah, Stockton, Malone, Robinson, etc.
Drexler is in tier 4. Borderline 30.
[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock]
Drexler is usually around 40th. Dirk probably is ahead of him and top 40 but top 30 is a stretch, although he may get there by the time he retires. To be top 25-30 he would have to be considered as good and accomplished as players like Jason Kidd, Scottie Pippen, John Stockton, David Robinson, and Kevin Garnett to name some recent players around 25th place on most lists.
[/QUOTE]
Is Dirk any less accomplished than Kidd, Pippen, Stockton, DRob and Garnett?
btw, on [URL="http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57766"]that list[/URL] Drexler is at #27