Penny Hardaway appreciation thread

[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]Hill was a better rebounder, that's about it. Penny was the better [B]winner[/B], passer, shooter and [B]defender[/B]. I also thought his post game was better. As overall scorers they're about even.[/QUOTE]

Oh please. Getting stuck next to one of the best centers ever doesn't make you a better winner, it makes you fortunate. And no, he wasn't a better defender either. Just because you have a 7 footer behind you and can push up on the ball, you are somehow the better defender. Penny wasn't that great a defender. Just because he chose to step it up against one player in MJ, doesn't make him as great as you say he is.

Also now he was a better passer than Hill? :oldlol:

[QUOTE=plowking]Oh please. Getting stuck next to one of the best centers ever doesn't make you a better winner, it makes you fortunate. And no, he wasn't a better defender either. Just because you have a 7 footer behind you and can push up on the ball, you are somehow the better defender. Penny wasn't that great a defender. Just because he chose to step it up against one player in MJ, doesn't make him as great as you say he is.

Also now he was a better passer than Hill? :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

:oldlol: What's wrong with saying Penny was a better passer than Hill? Did you even watch Penny play? And yes, he was a better winner than Hill. In six healthy seasons in his prime, Hill made the playoffs 4 times and his numbers were comparable to his season numbers only once(he can't be blamed for 2000 though due to the injury). Penny stepped up his game in the playoffs, look at the 1997 playoffs or the 1995 finals. Look at what Penny did when Shaq was injured in 1996 and look his record with Orlando even after they replaced Shaq with Rony Seikaly who hadn't played well the last 2 seasons and that was with Nick Anderson already being done mentally after the 1995 finals(he dropped to a 40% FT shooter).

And Penny was typically a good perimeter defender, better than most of the star perimeter players of the past decade who very rarely even try to play 1 on 1 defense.

[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]Penny was barely healthy and he still won more than Hill. he made it to the finals and the ECF, played on four 50 win teams, a 60 win team.

Hill played on just two 50 win teams(one of them was as the 5th or 6th option. And Hill has never made it out of the first round(it's funny how people love to point that out about T-Mac, but ignore it about Hill). Hill had six seasons where he was healthy before he became injury prone, Penny had 3.[/QUOTE]
I'm sure playing next to this 7'0 500 pound gorilla didn't help. :oldlol:

[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]:oldlol: When did Vince seperate himself from Penny? See right there, you overrate the current player.(big surprise).[/QUOTE]

Yeah, huge surprise, I think Vince is the better player... because he is maybe? Peak season of 28/6/4/2/1 on 46/41/77 percentages is far better than anything Penny did. I don't care if he's a better winner, Vince would be too if he played next to Shaq, in fact, he would have won something.

[QUOTE]Who cares if he made one all-nba ifrst team because Jordan was gone? Jordan was retired when Carter and McGrady were in their prime as well, shouldn't take away from their accomplishments.
[/QUOTE]

Of course it matters, he made the teams when the best player was sitting out. McGrady or Vince never had Bryant, Iverson, Wade, Nash sit out.

[QUOTE]And what was Payton better at in '95 and '96 other than defense? Those 2 were debatable overall.[/QUOTE]

Defense by miles, and offense. Just because the stats don't show it, which is your be all and end all, doesn't mean its not so. Payton was able to lead his team to more wins, with equal talent (saying this due to Shaq being out for 30 odd games).


[QUOTE]I was referring to T-Mac's overall prime. When T-Mac was in prime as an overall player, he was not a very good defender.[/QUOTE]

He averaged 2spg and 1bpg in his prime, and with his defensive talents he didn't do it by going off his man and trying to pick pocket guys from behind or too much gambling.

[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]:oldlol: What's wrong with saying Penny was a better passer than Hill? Did you even watch Penny play? And yes, he was a better winner than Hill. In six healthy seasons in his prime, Hill made the playoffs 4 times and his numbers were comparable to his season numbers only once(he can't be blamed for 2000 though due to the injury). Penny stepped up his game in the playoffs, look at the 1997 playoffs or the 1995 finals. Look at what Penny did when Shaq was injured in 1996 and look his record with Orlando even after they replaced Shaq with Rony Seikaly who hadn't played well the last 2 seasons and that was with Nick Anderson already being done mentally after the 1995 finals(he dropped to a 40% FT shooter).

And Penny was typically a good perimeter defender, better than most of the star perimeter players of the past decade who very rarely even try to play 1 on 1 defense.[/QUOTE]

He played 5 games in the 97 playoffs. Anyone can have a great stretch or series... :rolleyes:

No, you aren't a better winner just because you got stuck next to one of the most dominant centers at his absolutely glory days.

And once again, no, he wasn't a very good defensive player. He's the only star guard Shaq has played with that hasn't gone on a all defensive team. He really was a poor defender.

Hill was a better defender than Penny. Penny was below average in that regard. He had a lot of trouble guarding smaller, quicker guards and even the wings though he did a solid job of contesting shots. He was extremely quick on the offensive end in regards to getting to the lane but that quickness was hardly on display on the defensive end. I'd say lack of effort was the biggest problem. He was a good team defender, though. Most of the steals he got were NOT from playing the passing lanes and his weakside defense was solid as well. Hill wasn't a spectacular defender, either but I'd say he was a notch above Penny.

[QUOTE]Getting stuck next to one of the best centers ever doesn't make you a better winner, it makes you fortunate. [/QUOTE]

Penny proved he could lead a championship contender without Shaq when he was healthy. He did better--much better--when Shaq was hurt than young Kobe or young Wade did. The Magic without Shaq remained an elite team thanks to Penny; LA and Miami without Shaq played .500 or worse ball. If Orlando was all Shaq how could they compete so well without him?

[QUOTE]Of course it matters, [B]he made the teams when the best player was sitting out[/B].[/QUOTE]

The last time I checked Jordan played in 96'...

Top 5 in all-NBA voting in 1995

1) Malone (F) 519
2) Robinson (C) 479
3) Pippen (F) 451
4) Stockton (G) 447
[B]5) P. Hardaway (G) 394[/B]

[url]http://www.nytimes.com/1995/05/12/sp...s-all-nba.html[/url]

Top 5 in all-NBA voting in 1996

1) Jordan (G) 113 (unanimous)
2) Pippen (F) 91
[B]3) P. Hardaway (G) 90[/B]
4) Malone (F) 89
5) Robinson (C) 65

[url]http://www.nytimes.com/1996/05/24/sp...tar-again.html[/url]

Jordan also must be why Penny was 3rd in MVP voting in 96', right? What is VC's top MVP finish? 10th or 11th? Penny was a guy you could go to war with; prime Carter was a guy who could sell tickets.

Jordan being retired means nothing. Is Drexler's all-NBA first team selection in 92' illegitimate because Magic retired?

[QUOTE]
He played 5 games in the 97 playoffs. Anyone can have a great stretch or series...
[/QUOTE]

:eek: at this coming from a Heat fan. You do realize the Heat had some good teams before Wade, don't you?

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock]Penny proved he could lead a championship contender without Shaq when he was healthy. He did better--much better--when Shaq was hurt than young Kobe or young Wade did. The Magic without Shaq remained an elite team thanks to Penny; LA and Miami without Shaq played .500 or worse ball. If Orlando was all Shaq how could they compete so well without him?



The last time I checked Jordan played in 96'...

Top 5 in all-NBA voting in 1995

1) Malone (F) 519
2) Robinson (C) 479
3) Pippen (F) 451
4) Stockton (G) 447
[B]5) P. Hardaway (G) 394[/B]

[url]http://www.nytimes.com/1995/05/12/sp...s-all-nba.html[/url]

Top 5 in all-NBA voting in 1996

1) Jordan (G) 113 (unanimous)
2) Pippen (F) 91
[B]3) P. Hardaway (G) 90[/B]
4) Malone (F) 89
5) Robinson (C) 65

[url]http://www.nytimes.com/1996/05/24/sp...tar-again.html[/url]

Jordan also must be why Penny was 3rd in MVP voting in 96', right? What is VC's top MVP finish? 10th or 11th? Penny was a guy you could go to war with; prime Carter was a guy who could sell tickets.

Jordan being retired means nothing. Is Drexler's all-NBA first team selection in 92' illegitimate because Magic retired?[/QUOTE]

:applause: Nice post, Roundball.

The thing about Penny's peak is that we never really saw Penny's true peak considering he started to get with injuries by his 4th season. With Hill, we saw the numbers he was capable of in his peak since he started to get with serious injuries by his eighth season while with Penny we only really saw flashes of it like in that two game stretch against Miami in the playoffs.

Anyways, Penny was a really skilled offensive player. He was great at passing and could throw up some nice lobs as well. He could score from every part of the floor and had a nice stroke. He had some nice footwork and could play in the post as well. He had nice body control as well and could finish de3cently at the rim. He was a bit turnover prone and he was fairly decent on D, but there was never a serious flaw he had on the offensive end imo.

[img]http://theshoegame.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/pennynew4.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.nbasuateam.net/images/nbasuateam/PennyHardaway-1017.jpg[/img]

Penny has some of the best shoes.

[url]http://www.nbasuateam.net/penny-hardaway-shoes-c-13.html[/url]

He and Reggie were my favorite players growing up! :bowdown:

[B]Penny was All Star Level but he wasn`t better :no: than Grant Hill.[/B]

Penny was a beast.

What could he truly been is what many wonder these days?

[url]http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/legend-penny-hardaway-of-the-east-team-shoots-the-ball-news-photo/139781133[/url]


Penny Hardaway in 2012.

Probably the most skilled low-post guard after Magic.

That said, he didn't have much of a face-up game, did he? He had to be a good post-player to be a star in the league.

[QUOTE=Indian guy]Probably the most skilled low-post guard after Magic.

That said, he didn't have much of a face-up game, did he? He had to be a good post-player to be a star in the league.[/QUOTE]

:wtf:

Penny was a great driver.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du1JGCCeuAY[/url]

[B][U]Penny Hardaway's Top 10 Magic Plays [/U][/B]

[QUOTE=Indian guy]
That said, he didn't have much of a face-up game, did he? He had to be a good post-player to be a star in the league.[/QUOTE]
Penny was always taking people off the dribble ... the hell are you talking about?

:oldlol:

[QUOTE=SwooshReturns]Penny was always taking people off the dribble ... the hell are you talking about?

:oldlol:[/QUOTE]

Yeah, Penny was one of the more complete perimeter players offensively back then. Great mid-range and post game, but definitely skilled and explosive off the dribble. Only thing lacking compared to some was maybe a bit of extra range on his shot, but not really an issue. I have no doubt he could've been one of the league's leading scorers had he wanted to or not been on a team that had that much scoring and ran so much of their offense through the post.

Really a different player than Magic despite the comparisons, though one thing he did like to do that Magic did often was protect the ball when taking the ball up with his back to the basket and if there and if it was open, spin off his defender quickly and get right to the basket.

[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]Yeah, Penny was one of the more complete perimeter players offensively back then.[/quote]
Yet in retrospect, even as a rookie in '94 ... GREAT footwork and post up skills.

Shows the total drop off in fundamentals compared to today's players.

Hell, Penny's post game coming out the game was better than Kobe's ... especially considering Penny wasn't trying to imitate someone else's move set and style.

Pretty impressive.

[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]Really a different player than Magic despite the comparisons, though one thing he did like to do that Magic did often was protect the ball when taking the ball up with his back to the basket and if there and if it was open, spin off his defender quickly and get right to the basket.[/QUOTE]
Yea, notice this as well.

I just love the attacking style, why settle for long range shots when you can get to the rim or near the rim with your skills and basketball intelligence?

It compromises the defense, and even if you're intentions are to score ... it makes all your teammates a threat at the same time. By driving and getting inside, it doesn't let the defense off the hook.

[QUOTE=Lebron23][img]http://theshoegame.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/pennynew4.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.nbasuateam.net/images/nbasuateam/PennyHardaway-1017.jpg[/img]

Penny has some of the best shoes.

[url]http://www.nbasuateam.net/penny-hardaway-shoes-c-13.html[/url][/QUOTE]
I remember back when the foamsites were thought to be the ugliest shoes ever. now I see them everywhere :oldlol: