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Just saw this movie last night. Wasn't as good as expected. I kinda figured that Leo was not getting off that island somehow. If he was crazy, then you must admit he had one of the best imaginations of the patient's there.
But then you have to ask yourself, if the Doctor told him that he was the most dangerous prisoner on the island, why would he not be locked up in Cell Block C to be begin with?? This little role-playing experiment could have ended a lot more differently, and more bloody.
[QUOTE=Doomsday Dallas]Well I've looked around on the internet a little bit and I see that there are others that think the movie can be interpreted the same way.
Really what it comes down to is if that woman in the cave was real because she basically explained the conspiracy theory to the audience...
Now basically the movie does come down to weather or not Leo's visions of his (possible delusional) conspiracy theory is real or not... that's just a fact, and I'll be honest that towards the end of movie it seems like Leo really was crazy, but there are plenty of situations in the movie that suggest that he wasn't.... they just made him that way for two reasons:
1.) It was part of mind control experiment... they were doing groundbreaking tests on Leo.
2.) Leo was getting close to exposing the corruption and they had to stop him.
[url]http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100228124417AAOaZB1[/url]
I still don't understand why they would let the most dangerous person on the island role play to those lengths... they are just gonna let him walk around the island even when he has been there for 2 years?
and why did the doctor say: "Why are you wet Baby?"[/QUOTE]
Because he was wet.
And again, you are choosing to interpet the movie in a way neither the author nor the director intended it to be interpeted. I dont get why you are being so thick about it. if i paint a picture of a cow, you can tell me for a thousand years its a pig, but its a COW. i wrote it and i know.
[QUOTE=ShannonElements]They let him go through with the roleplay because the only other option left was to lobotomize him, and Cawley wanted that to be an absolute last resort. [/QUOTE]
Exactly. The role-playing thing was the final, last-ditch effort by the institution to bring Leo's delusions to his attention. It was the only thing that they had left and it seemed like it may have worked, but as we know, he reverted back to his delusions the next day.
When they led him off at the end of the movie, it was for Leo's lobotomy.
The movie was pretty clear-cut. All of these conspiracy ideas have no basis, especially since the book makes it clear that there was no conspiracy and he was, in fact, crazy.
[QUOTE=ShannonElements]I just explained why that likely was. He knew every detail of Andrew's case, and used that as a jumping off point to the big reveal.
They let him go through with the roleplay because the only other option left was to lobotomize him, and Cawley wanted that to be an absolute last resort. You didn't notice how "Chuck" was with him pretty much the entire time, and was constantly asking him "Are you OK, Boss?" That's because he was his psychiatrist, and was concerned about him. You didn't notice how all the guards regarded him? With extreme apprehension, as if "Teddy" was dangerous and might attack them at any time? Ding ding ding!
Just watch it again and pay attention to the last look Cawley gives to Andrew as he walks off to be lobotomized. It's a look of deep sadness. A look of someone who had all his eggs in one basket, and failed. Not the look of someone who had just successfully mind-****ed someone.
All the "sane" theorists have is speculation. There is no fact.[/QUOTE]
You want to talk about a last look?
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKsgUa5m1yk[/url]
[B]SHUTTER ISLAND ENDING[/B]
To live as a monster or to die as a good man?.... The Good Man was Leo, they were the monsters... and Leo wasn't about to let himself become their monster... he would rather die knowing he was a good man.
The nazi doctor says to Teddy, "wounds can create monsters".
[QUOTE=ShannonElements]More speculation and interpretation. No facts.[/QUOTE]
The nazi doctor says to Teddy, "wounds can create monsters".
that doesn't mean anything to you?
Oh and by the way.... did I mention he was a Nazi.
*sigh*
Jesus, Dooms.
[QUOTE=enayes]100% WRONG. He does not pretend to be insane. And like I said before, they added that last line in the movie, it was not in the book. The story is the book.[/QUOTE]
No Andrei is right. It's BASED on the book, not the same thing; the director/screenwriter is free to change it how they want, and they decided to end it a bit lighter, with Andrew finally realizing the truth, but wanting to die before he changed back.
To Dooms, the german doctor was not a Nazi, Andrew just created that idea himself as a part of his false impression of the truth.
It was a nicely-filmed movie but I don't think there was any more to it than the "twist" that he was crazy the whole time. Me and everyone I watched it with figured out within the first act that he was nuts and we were waiting for the big twist that he was right all along, but it never came. Just a very lazy ending and I probably would've enjoyed it more if a supposed "twist" wasn't hyped up to me by everyone else who saw it.
Yeah Dooms is really interpreting the plot the wrong way, it's not that hard to grasp for me, it's really only that last quote that he says that throws a bit of confusion as to what mental state he is in. But he is insane, the sane arguments are just too farfetched.
[QUOTE=Doomsday Dallas][b]Nope... I don't care what they said.[/b][/quote]
pretty much sums up everything i've ever seen dooms post
[QUOTE=Quizno]pretty much sums up everything i've ever seen dooms post[/QUOTE]
I'm convinced that the movie was meant to be interpreted two ways... that's why it's brilliant.
[QUOTE=ShannonElements]Except there's nothing to back up the alternate interpretation but conjecture and speculation. [B]Nothing.[/B] I know you aren't [i]completely[/i] illogical, but c'mon. To actually believe that the filmmakers/actors, and the dude who wrote the book are part of some conspiracy against the public is lunacy.[/QUOTE]
Listed several things but you aren't listening...
I'll acknowledge that you've made a few good points - top one being the anagrams - but you've failed to acknowledge some of the good points I've made - many of which are listed in the link in the OP.
[QUOTE=ShannonElements]Again, all that stuff is is conjecture and speculation. Like the first "fact" about the cigarettes beginning the drugging process. That's not a fact. That's speculation. Therein lies the difference.[/QUOTE]
Did you hear what that b*tch in the cave had to say about the cigarettes?
I told you that you weren't listening.
[QUOTE=ShannonElements]The woman in the cave was most likely imaginary. He just [i]happens[/i] to stumble upon her hiding place? And think about the cigarettes; "Chuck" was smoking the same ones and he didn't turn batty.
Anyway, it's futile debating with you, so I'm done. You are like Teddy. Refusing to look at the patient intake form so that you can continue to live in your delusion.[/QUOTE]
Well one last thing... Just think about how retarded it is for them to put a guard (near the lighthouse) in harms way of the most dangerous man on the island just to try to get him help... I guess they figured Teddy's life was more valuable then that guards.
Or was that imaginary like the cave woman?
Chuck was providing Leo with the cigarettes... just because he was smoking one didn't mean it was laced with drugs also.
And basically It makes no since for the doctor to say to Teddy: "Why are you all wet baby".... Infact the whole role playing conspiracy stuff makes no sense because they would not go to those lengths to try to help him. PERIOD.
But if these assholes were evil scientists they sure as hell would go to those lengths to f*ck persons mind and prevent him from exposing their operation.
The one part I really didn't get was when a ****ing million rats came out of the rocks of the cliff. That was just weird.
[QUOTE=Jailblazers7]The one part I really didn't get was when a ****ing million rats came out of the rocks of the cliff. That was just weird.[/QUOTE]
Didn't we see Leo in a bathroom earlier in the movie with a single Rat in it and he was afraid of it.
Probably had something to do with facing his fear... which he had to also do when he swam to the lighthouse... (he was afraid of water)
I really need to watch it again at least one more time. There are probably a bunch a details (like the screams in the cliff sequence) that I missed the first go around.
[QUOTE=ShannonElements]Producer and screen-writer confirm Teddy was insane.
[url]http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1130884/board/flat/164944625[/url][/QUOTE]
Nope... The screen-writer and the producer are in on the conspiracy too.
:oldlol:
good thread though.
[quote]I think the thing is here that the guys on Team Sane admit the author and the filmmakers intended one and only one outcome in both the novel and the film but they are saying they can "see" a second outcome.
In this way it does not matter to them what the author or filmmakers say, they don't actually care about what they intended the message of the film to be. They are saying this does not matter because these people saw (and possibly can only see) things one way but they (those on the sane gang) can see things two ways or more. [/quote]
I like that post.
My girl wanted me to download this so we could watch it last night. I just wanted to thank this asshole thread title for ruining any surprise there could have been for watching it the first time.
[QUOTE=DeuceWallaces]My girl wanted me to download this so we could watch it last night. I just wanted to thank this asshole thread title for ruining any surprise there could have been for watching it the first time.[/QUOTE]
honestly bro, no one ****ing cares.
*SPOILERS*
I've just seen this.
I enjoyed it - I had never seen any trailer or commercial so it worked for me. I was bought into Noyce's and Dr. Solano's conspiracy theories so the idea he could be the patient didn't even touch me :D
It is one of those movies where you can collect so many hints and details when you think back at them. Cigarettes, water, the band aid on his forehead etc.
(One open question for me is: was the scene in the cave with Dr. Solando real?)
Re: the sane vs insane debate, I do think he was crazy.
I don't believe the screenwriters/director meant to make anyone think that he could be sane, BUT did they mean to leave us with the doubt that the shrinks were actually bad and did this huge role-play just as a sick experiment and not as an actual therapy?
bump...
sorry Dooms...you're wrong
if he was sane then why would he have those memories?...his partner WAS his doctor...etc...it makes no sense
this is your conspiracy theory head kicking in and trying to make something into something it isn't
Okay movie. Definitely overrated in general and i'm tired of Scorcese using Leo D. He's no Deniro and never will be, so stop trying to make him your leading man in every single ****ing movie you do. I mean Jesus christ...if not for DDL in 'Gangs of New York' the movie would be an absolute disaster. Leo D was ****ing horrible in that movie. The only reason to see it was how DDL stole every scene he was in. Greatest actor over the last 25 years.