Luc Longley?

[QUOTE=Shepseskaf]As has already been said, Longley didn't get as many minutes as Gasol (~20 mins per game). On a per-36 minute scale, his career numbers are 12.3/8.4/2.5/1.6.

I don't see any huge differences there.[/QUOTE]

Stats don't really tell the whole story. Gasol is a MUCH better basketball player than Longley. Gasol is a better rebounder, a better finisher inside, a better passer, more active on the defensive end and he is much more mobile than Longley. Longley couldn't give you 35 MPG because of his limited stamina, you don't have that problem with Gasol.

Really, stats is the last thing you want to use when judging a player like Marc Gasol, a player like Greg Monroe has similar stats to Gasol, but anyone who knows the game will tell you that Marc is the better player by a good margin.

You guys must be on some :biggums: if you really think Longley would average 14/9 in today's league.

If you combined all of the Bulls centers from their 6 Championships you might get close to Gasol.

[QUOTE=Shepseskaf]As has already been said, Longley didn't get as many minutes as Gasol (~20 mins per game). On a per-36 minute scale, his career numbers are 12.3/8.4/2.5/1.6.

I don't see any huge differences there.[/QUOTE]
As the fourth option no less. Playing against better centers.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers]Stats don't really tell the whole story. Gasol is a MUCH better basketball player than Longley. Gasol is a better rebounder, a better finisher inside, a better passer, more active on the defensive end and he is much more mobile than Longley. Longley couldn't give you 35 MPG because of his limited stamina, you don't have that problem with Gasol.[/QUOTE]
Again, no one is saying that Longley was elite. I think, though, that he's being seriously undersold.

Stats don't tell the whole story sometimes, but in this case it does tell part of the story. Longley was a very serviceable big man who would have done more if his minutes had been expanded.

Of course, the Grizz don't have any player nearly as ball-dominant as MJ, so its a comparison to Gasol is a difficult one to make.

Gasol has had stamina issues, by the way.

[QUOTE=Shepseskaf] the Grizz don't have any player nearly as ball-dominant as MJ, so its a comparison to Gasol is a difficult one to make.
[/QUOTE]

It's not. Gasol might have been an all-star on those Bulls teams. I like Lucy but he's no where near the player Marc is.

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You]It's not. Gasol might have been an all-star on those Bulls teams. I like Lucy but he's no where near the player Marc is.[/QUOTE]
I would have liked to see them match up. Might be a bit more competitive than you might think.

Lucy is more in Steisma's class.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers]Stats don't really tell the whole story. Gasol is a MUCH better basketball player than Longley. Gasol is a better rebounder, a better finisher inside, a better passer, more active on the defensive end and he is much more mobile than Longley. Longley couldn't give you 35 MPG because of his limited stamina, you don't have that problem with Gasol.

Really, stats is the last thing you want to use when judging a player like Marc Gasol, a player like Greg Monroe has similar stats to Gasol, but anyone who knows the game will tell you that Marc is the better player by a good margin.

You guys must be on some :biggums: if you really think Longley would average 14/9 in today's league.[/QUOTE]
Thats due to monroe playing for detroit and gasol memphis. Memphis is a much better and popular team. Thus gasol garners more recognition

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You]It's not. Gasol might have been an all-star on those Bulls teams. I like Lucy but he's no where near the player Marc is.[/QUOTE]
Nowhere near? Thats pushing it. I dont think longley has the hands of gasol, but gasol is not as good as longley was on defense. Saying that, my saying that longley would be a top 10 center now is pushing it. But hed definately be middle of the pack.

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You]Lucy is more in Steisma's class.[/QUOTE]
Stop the nonsense.

Luc was a lottery pick by the Minnesota Timberwolves one year after they drafted another 7 footer in the lottery (Felton Spencer). He was always a role player. He was on those Bulls championship teams, the latter 3. Nothing special. Just a big guy, he had decent passing skills. The Bulls had role players for their center, it was just a position that those Bulls teams didn't rely on for offense.

[QUOTE=Shepseskaf]Stop the nonsense.[/QUOTE]

I'm not the one comparing him to Gasol. That is nonsense. I watched Lucy from the time he was 18 and he did some nice things on the court but he wasn't the player Gasol is.

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You]I'm not the one comparing him to Gasol. That is nonsense. I watched Lucy from the time he was 18 and he did some nice things on the court but he wasn't the player Gasol is.[/QUOTE]
Get a clue. Longley is a hell of a lot closer to Gasol than he is to Greg Steisma.

[QUOTE=Shepseskaf]This is why I dislike debating things that happened 20 years ago with someone who was probably born yesterday.

What I meant about Longley, if it wasn't clear, is that he ran the floor well for someone of his height and size. I did not say he was the freaking flash, or that he had elite-level speed.

If you're comparing him to other Bulls centers of his era, I would say that he was more mobile than either Cartwright or Wennington. Both of them, I would consider flatfooted and slow.

I have a bunch of old Bulls games, and have noted more then once that Longely was much quicker and more mobile than people give him credit for. Obviously, some posters here think he was some kind of stiff, but I don't agree.

Watch some old Bulls games, or look at some YouTube clips. You might be surprised.[/QUOTE]
I watched those games in my moms basement on WGN fool. I went to 3 celebrations in Grant Park. I went to games in the old Chicago Stadium. So quit reaching Joe.

Comparing Luc to two other slow players does not make him mobile.

He was not mobile he was slow yet solid.

Again, you should have quit when you were ahead.

[QUOTE=Go Getter]I watched those games in my moms basement on WGN fool. [/QUOTE]
Maybe she should have had a better tv. You might have seen the games more clearly.

[QUOTE=Shepseskaf]Maybe she should have had a better tv. You might have seen the games more clearly.[/QUOTE]
Or maybe you're talking out the side of your neck and have he-motions for Luc Longley. Find me ONE person or quote touting Luc's mobility. Find me ONE Bull's fan to back your story. Better yet, lets make a thread in the Bulls section about it, loser has to sport the avi of the winner's choice.

[QUOTE=Go Getter]Or maybe you're talking out the side of your neck and have he-motions for Luc Longley. Find me ONE person or quote touting Luc's mobility. Find me ONE Bull's fan to back your story. Better yet, lets make a thread in the Bulls section about it, loser has to sport the avi of the winner's choice.[/QUOTE]
I don't think so. I've already explained my statements earlier in the thread. Take a look.

[QUOTE=Shepseskaf]I don't think so. I've already explained my statements earlier in the thread. Take a look.[/QUOTE]


And our opinions differ. You acted like I was too young to watch Luc and you were wrong just like you're wrong about him being a mobile center.

[QUOTE=Go Getter]And our opinions differ.[/QUOTE]
/thread

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You]I'm not the one comparing him to Gasol. That is nonsense. I watched Lucy from the time he was 18 and he did some nice things on the court but he wasn't the player Gasol is.[/QUOTE]
Because they played different roles on their respective teams. Like i saiid earlier, their skillsets are quite similar. With longley being the better defender, and gasol having better hands. And i feel gasol was better around the basket. As far as finishing plays off passes. Longley has a tendency to lay the ball up as opposed to dunk. I think he improved in his stint with the bulls though.

[QUOTE=Shepseskaf]/thread[/QUOTE]
you're still wrong though:oldlol:

[QUOTE=97 bulls]Because they played different roles on their respective teams. Like i saiid earlier, their skillsets are quite similar. With longley being the better defender, and gasol having better hands. And i feel gasol was better around the basket. As far as finishing plays off passes. Longley has a tendency to lay the ball up as opposed to dunk. I think he improved in his stint with the bulls though.[/QUOTE]

Gasol would have played a much larger role than Lucy or any Bulls center did on those 6 Bulls Championship teams. Lucy would be fighting Hamaddi for the starting spot in Memphis.

He is better than Joel Anthony.

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You]Gasol would have played a much larger role than Lucy or any Bulls center did on those 6 Bulls Championship teams. Lucy would be fighting Hamaddi for the starting spot in Memphis.[/QUOTE]
Gasol avg 15 ppg as a second option with the grizzlies. His and longleys per 36 min stats are almost exactly the same. But longley was the fourth option with the bulls. And was primarily relegated to being a jumpshooter.

I could see Gasol as a 3rd option maybe even 2nd if Pippen didn't cry about it since he wasn't that great in the half court game anyway. Lucy wouldn't be a 2nd option with the Grizzlies no matter how many injuries they had.

Marc on that Bulls team would be even more scarier. The half court offense would be smoother and his ability to pass and set screens would make things easier for MJ & Pippen.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers]Marc on that Bulls team would be even more scarier. The half court offense would be smoother and his ability to pass and set screens would make things easier for MJ & Pippen.[/QUOTE]
Longleys 3 championship rings, and 72, 69, and 62 win seasons say he did just fine.

[QUOTE=97 bulls]Longleys 3 championship rings, and 72, 69, and 62 win seasons say he did just fine.[/QUOTE]

Bulls would have won 70+ games 3 years in a row with Gasol instead of Longley.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers]Bulls would have won 70+ games 3 years in a row with Gasol instead of Longley.[/QUOTE]
Seriously, you can't make that kind of assumption, because it would depend on so many other factors.

And when did Marc Gasol become some kind of god? Is he supposed to be the prototypical big man now? :oldlol:

I like Gasol's game, and I pull for the Grizz, but c'mon.

Luuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc!

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You]I could see Gasol as a 3rd option maybe even 2nd if Pippen didn't cry about it since he wasn't that great in the half court game anyway. Lucy wouldn't be a 2nd option with the Grizzlies no matter how many injuries they had.[/QUOTE]

Stop calling him Lucy, fruitcake

[QUOTE=97 bulls]Gasol avg 15 ppg as a second option with the grizzlies. His and longleys per 36 min stats are almost exactly the same. But longley was the fourth option with the bulls. And was primarily relegated to being a jumpshooter.[/QUOTE]

I haven't read this whole thread. What exactly are you trying to say here?

[QUOTE=guy]I haven't read this whole thread. What exactly are you trying to say here?[/QUOTE]

You already know how 97 Bulls is... He thinks Longley = M. Gasol. Kukoc = Dirk. Pippen = Bird.

Dude is delusional.

[QUOTE=guy]I haven't read this whole thread. What exactly are you trying to say here?[/QUOTE]
I'm saying longley was better than what some of these people give him credit for. And that the centers he played against were far superior to the centers now.

You can't just say marc gasol is better than longley cuz gasol avg 15 ppg and longley 10. Their roles on their respective teams were different.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers]You already know how 97 Bulls is... He thinks Longley = M. Gasol. Kukoc = Dirk. Pippen = Bird.

Dude is delusional.[/QUOTE]
You dont look at players the same way I do. You look at stats, I look at talent. You dont take into consideration a players role on his team, I do.

Just look at manu ginobli. Its clear hes a much better playerand than what hes been able to show during his career with the spurs. The same hold true for james harden. The same applies to kukoc.


And for the last time, when we had the conversation about pippen and bird, it was in reference to how they would fair on the court vs each other. As part of a dream matchup between the celtics and bulls. I called them a wash and backed it up. You had no rebutal. That was two years ago, get over it

Kukoc vs Dirk thread... [url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=235796[/url]
[QUOTE=97 bulls]This comparison is based on talent, not personal achievements.[B] There's nothing that I've seen between the two, that would put dirk that far ahead of kukoc.[/B][/QUOTE]

:roll:

You're not fooling anyone, you are extremely biased.

[QUOTE=97 bulls]I'm saying longley was better than what some of these people give him credit for. And that the centers he played against were far superior to the centers now.

You can't just say marc gasol is better than longley cuz gasol avg 15 ppg and longley 10. Their roles on their respective teams were different.[/QUOTE]

Do you know how insane this reply sounds? I too can say the same BS.

I'm saying that Ramon Sessions is better than what some people give him credit for. And that the point guards he is playing against now are far superior to the point guards of the 90's.

You can't just say Mark Price is better than sessions cuz Price avg 17/8 and sessions 13/6. Their roles on their respective teams were different.

It doesn't mean that if both players are white, tall, european shooters, then they have a comparable game. (Kukoc and Dirk) It's an insult to even just call Dirk a shooter, he's a flat out scorer.

Luc might have the same skillset as MG, but it doesn't mean they have the same skill level. I.E. Luc can pass out of the triangle, MG can pass out of the high post to a backdoor cutting Tony Allen

The poor man's Marc Gasol in a great comparison

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers]Kukoc vs Dirk thread... [url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=235796[/url]


:roll:

You're not fooling anyone, you are extremely biased.[/QUOTE]
Im not backing off anything ive said. I resonded to the comment that kukoc was nt in dirks stratopere or something. Thats really pushing it. And i qualified my statement. I dont see what my post about dirk and kukoc proves.

[QUOTE=97 bulls]Im not backing off anything ive said. [B]I resonded to the comment that kukoc was nt in dirks stratopere or something. Thats really pushing it.[/B] And i qualified my statement. I dont see what my post about dirk and kukoc proves.[/QUOTE]

Really?

Dirk - 11 time NBA All-Star
Kukoc - 0

Dirk - 1 NBA League MVP Award
Kukoc - 0

Dirk - 11 All-NBA Team selections
Kukoc - 0

Dirk - 1 Finals MVP Award
Kukoc - 0

How are these guys on the same level? Oh I forgot, they both played different "roles" for their respective teams.:oldlol: