I always forget, Wilt could bench press 650 pounds without warming up and Russell could dunk on a 15 foot hoop.
:rolleyes:
I always take these stories with a grain of salt.
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I always forget, Wilt could bench press 650 pounds without warming up and Russell could dunk on a 15 foot hoop.
:rolleyes:
I always take these stories with a grain of salt.
[QUOTE=plowking]So we're supposed to believe, Russell could touch higher than Shaq, who at his pre draft measurements recorded a higher vertical than Wade's, Kobe's and Hardaway's...
So, Shaq, who's had a higher vertical than all the wingmen he's played with, somehow couldn't touch higher than Russell. Though because Russell said it, we should believe it?[/QUOTE]
If you mean by a higher vertical than all of those guys a lower vertical than all of those guys, then yes he had a higher vertical than all of those guys.
Chacha don't lie my *****.
www.chacha.com/question/how-high-is-shaq's-vertical
Shaq 32"
Kobe 38"
Wade 36"
Penny Hardaway. couldn't find.
[QUOTE=jlauber]Let me ask you this...how many Shaq's have we seen in the NBA since 1993? And, how many centers today are more physically blessed than Shaq, say in 2000?
Of course the answer is, there has only been ONE Shaq. Same applies with Wilt. There has NEVER been a seven-footer so blessed with speed and leaping ability as Chamberlain. The man was a sprinter and a high jump champ (among his MANY track events) for cryingoutloud!
KBlaze had some great comments, but let me expand one of them...
Wilt played with and against MANY NBA players. He played with several NBA coaches, and against MANY. There were MANY in the media who covered him. Now, not all of them cared for Wilt. YET, find me ONE that has stepped up and said that Wilt was not capable of virtually everything he has been given credit for.
I only read those several anti-Wilt posters here, who go out of their way to disparage his accomplishments. They simply can't believe that ONE man could DOMINATE an ENTIRE league, the way that Wilt did. I have read a ridiculous comment that Wilt played on a losing team, that only won 31 games, and they essentially blamed WILT! YET, did that poster acknowledge these facts: Wilt led the NBA in scoring at 44.8 ppg. He led the league in rebounding at 24.6. He set a then record for FG% at .528 (in a league that shot .441) He also led the league in Win Shares. AND, he recorded the HIGHEST PER in NBA HISTORY. Not only that, but the rest of teammates, arguably the absolute worst cast of clowns ever assembled, shot a collective .412 from the field...which was WAY below the last place team at .427.
These anti-Chamberlain posters rip him for leading the league in assists. They rip him for "only" two titles (despite him narrowly missing FIVE more.) They slap him for his stats because of era or competition, but they never acknlowedge that it was ONLY Wilt set those records. They won't acknowledge him not only outplaying virtually EVERY opposing center, or downright DOMINATING them...a list that includes Kerr, Lovelette, Reed, Bellamy, Thurmond, Hayes, Unseld, Cowens, Lanier, Lucas, Russell AND Kareem.
They won't accept that HE shattered all kinds of records when HE played...and NO ONE has come CLOSE since.
They can't believe that a 7-1 man with a 7-8 wingspan, and who was a highjump champ, as well as a competitve long jumper, would have a 48" vertical, even though the world record is 61". Instead they find some completely false article which claimed that Wilt had a 24" vertical (which Psileas ripped to shreds BTW.)
They can't believe that a 7-1 man could bench press 500 lbs, even though there are numerous articles that credit him with MORE.
No, we are not supposed to believe all of that despite the fact that there are SO MANY amazing physical feats of his PLASTERED all over the internet...AND, virtually NO respected player, coach, or writer who actually WITNESSED Chamberlain, has ever DISPUTED them.[/QUOTE]
The problem is, we have literally no footage to support any of these claims so we must take them with a grain of salt.
The difference with Shaq is that his vertical was officially recorded at the draft camp and we have footage like this. [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26oszd3z9Ns#t=0m34s"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26oszd3z9Ns#t=0m34s[/URL] where his head is damn close to the rim off a standing jump and freakish plays like this. [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoEWO5ypOPM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoEWO5ypOPM[/URL]
Or a 28 year old, 340 pound Shaq(who I don't think could jump as high as the 20 year old slimmer version) getting his head at or near rim level. [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EefJHAWigvY#t=6m11s"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EefJHAWigvY#t=6m11s[/URL] I mean his shoulder is more than halfway up the net!
But the highest I've seen a center jump is Dwight Howard who had his standing reach measured at 9'3.5" and he touched 12'6" on live TV and who knows if that's his max? That means he has a minimum 38.5" vertical.
But it's not just once in a decade athletes. If we believe the stories about Wilt, Russell, Gus Johnson, Earl Manigault, Connie Hawkins ect. then those would be the 5 most athletic basketball players ever, all having played 40+ years ago and nobody since then has come close to their claimed or rumored athletic feats, none of which are officially documented on film or in the record book(no I'm not talking about Wilt's stats, I'm referring to his vertical).
[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]The problem is, we have literally no footage to support any of these claims so we must take them with a grain of salt.
The difference with Shaq is that his vertical was officially recorded at the draft camp and we have footage like this. [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26oszd3z9Ns#t=0m34s"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26oszd3z9Ns#t=0m34s[/URL] where his head is damn close to the rim off a standing jump and freakish plays like this. [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoEWO5ypOPM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoEWO5ypOPM[/URL]
Or a 28 year old, 340 pound Shaq(who I don't think could jump as high as the 20 year old slimmer version) getting his head at or near rim level. [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EefJHAWigvY#t=6m11s"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EefJHAWigvY#t=6m11s[/URL] I mean his shoulder is more than halfway up the net!
But the highest I've seen a center jump is Dwight Howard who had his standing reach measured at 9'3.5" and he touched 12'6" on live TV and who knows if that's his max? That means he has a minimum 38.5" vertical.
But it's not just once in a decade athletes. If we believe the stories about Wilt, Russell, Gus Johnson, Earl Manigault, Connie Hawkins ect. then those would be the 5 most athletic basketball players ever, all having played 40+ years ago and nobody since then has come close to their claimed or rumored athletic feats, none of which are officially documented on film or in the record book(no I'm not talking about Wilt's stats, I'm referring to his vertical).[/QUOTE]
I can't speak for some of those guys. David Thompson reportedly hit 12' 6" I believe, which is completely possible, since we have athletes' today hitting 50+" verticals. BUT, it was common knowledge in the NBA in the Chamberlain era that he was capable of touching the top of the backboard (and with Russell's WORLD-CLASS leaping ability...probably him as well.) What amazes me are those that DON'T believe it. A 7-1 ATHLETE, with a 7-8 wingspan, who was only a few inches off the WORLD RECORD at the time, and who was also a LONG JUMPER and a SPRINTER...touching the top of the backboard was almost a certainty. I think the real question would be...just how much HIGHER he could get?
I actually marvel at his shot-blocking footage, in which he approaches 12 ft, with a standing vertical, at over 300 lbs, at age 34, and on a surgically repaired knee. One only need the several block of Kareem's sky-hook (of which he blocked 15 just in the '72 WCF's.) Incidently, there are photos of both Kareem and Gilmore, in college, with their heads at rim height...AND yet Chamberlain routinely outjumped both...and at 11+ years older.
Once again...he was perhaps the strongest man to ever play in the NBA (and clearly, had he had all the benefits of today's generation, he would have been even stronger.) He was certainly regarded almost universally as the strongest man in the NBA when he played. Not only that, but there were some promient sports luminaries who claimed he was among the strongest men in the world at the time. You have read Cherry's book...he interviewed a well-known power-lifter that was known to have been benched over 500 lbs...and that guy claimed that Wilt was the strongest man he knew. I have given an eye-witness account of Wilt benching 465 lbs at age 59! There is a now well-known SI article in 1964 with Wilt benching over 400 lbs...easily. And that was long before he hit his peak.
Speed? He outran the fastest Kansas City running back in a tryout in the mid-60's. In his own book, he claims to have outraced Jim Brown, TWICE, at a party with several witnesses. Brown was a 9.6 100 yard dasher. Alex Hannum claims that Wilt was quicker, end-to-end on a basketball court, than Al Attles (and later Hal Greer.) He was near world-class in the 440.
Leaping ability? Well, you have read all the numbers and quotes. I found it fascinating that he outleaped all of the '74 Conquistadors to get a ball lodged up high in a guidewire. He was in a suit-and-tie, and was 37 years old. There is a photo in his first book in which his waist is at the top of a volleyball net...some 8 ft. And remember, Wilt was a PART-TIME track star. His own coach believed that he was capable of a 7-0 high-jump had he focused on that sport. Needless to say, IMHO, no other NBA player has ever reached the height that Wilt did.
Not only all of that, but Wilt gets accused of "embellishing"...yet, the vast majority of his staggering physical feats are told by many others. And one more time...of all of the many basketball players, coaches, and members of the media that actually witnessed Chamberlain's incredible feats...where are those that dispute them?
Ultimately, Wilt, among other's proves that the best athletes, in their respective sports, are not necessarily TODAY's athletes.
I have mentioned it before, but is there anyone today, who was more dominant than Shaq in 2000? Anyone more dominant than MJ in 1990? Anyone better today than Hakeem in 1995?
So, continuing those points...Kareem in '72, or Wilt in '67. BOTH, in their PRIMES, ... IMHO, would be the best TODAY, as well.
nba players are pridefull guys, if one of them could do it, i think they would have told the world by now, if shaq could do it, we would definetly know about it already
[QUOTE=rfoster24]If you mean by a higher vertical than all of those guys a lower vertical than all of those guys, then yes he had a higher vertical than all of those guys.
Chacha don't lie my *****.
www.chacha.com/question/how-high-is-shaq's-vertical
Shaq 32"
Kobe 38"
Wade 36"
Penny Hardaway. couldn't find.[/QUOTE]
:roll: :roll: :roll:
You're using some site no one has ever heard of...
I'm using official NBA pre draft records. Shaq has a 36 inch vertical, and Wade's isn't 36. :oldlol:
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]I dont think you have one bit of evidence saying he cant...other than you not thinking he could. Is it an impossibly high jump? [/QUOTE]
How much do you love yourself? Seriously?
I don't have a bit of evidence? Where's Russell's?
"Uh... yeah, I could touch it"...
Well shit, so can I. No evidence saying I can't.
Travis Outlaw is 6'9, the same height as Russell, and James White is 6'8, an inch shorter. James White, the highest jumper in basketball we've ever seen, with a full run up cannot touch the top of the backboard. Keep in mind, the guy has a bigger wingspan than MJ, and it'd probably put him at around the same standing reach as Bill Russell. But no, Russell from the 60's could get that top of the backboard, especially by "standing straight underneath the ring and jumping"...
If you're confused as to whether he was talking about regulation backboards, forget about it, use the "eyes over the ring" account. No way in hell, nor is he even close.
Russell was listed 6'9'' or 10 and was measured barefoot as everyone was then. He would probably be called 6'11'' the way they do it now. In shoes hes 6'11'' or 10. which wouldnt matter if we are talking real heights but we are talking distance to something so it does. And at his height hes only 39 inches from headlevel which is not an amazingly high jump for anyone with his athletic background. Plenty of guys have one step verticals in that range. Including guys roughly his size like Josh Smith(6'9'' isnt he? Or 10?), mcdyess, and marcus haislip. Perhaps Howard. Its hard to call BS on that one to me. 39 inches wouldnt be the highest id seen someone jump in person. They were nowhere near his size....but ive see na jump that high. Its rare. Its not superhuman. For a highjumper no less?
And you asking me for evidence to disprove things nobody has any evidence of aside from eye witnesses...and everyone who saw the things in question(especially wilt ones) are called liars.
And James white isnt the highest jumper ive seen. Hes the best one footed leaper ive seen when lends itself to distance not vertical in a basketball sense. He was a good high jumper I believe but nobody is saying he cant jump. Im saying hes shorter than Russell and ive seen him damn close. Same for outlaw. I dont think its absurd to say someone 6'10'' or more in shoes who is an olympic level high jumper can get a few inches over Travis Outlaw or touch the top of a backboard we have no evidence was regulation or not.
Just seem odd for the first assumption to be that hes lying.....when hes saying something totally possible.
We arent talking about Earl the Goat who was like 6'2'' or 3 being said to win a bet by taking a dollar off the backboard. We would be talking a vertical well into a 50s or something. Which again..is not impossible. But its hard to assume it was done.
Russell? wilt? Guys the size they were with olympic/ncaa champ level high jumping backgrounds?
We are talking about something outside the realm of possibility and there is just no evidence to suggest it isnt true.
And if you said you had done it...and I had proof you were near 7 feet tall, long armed, and you qualified for the olympic team as a high jumper...
I wouldnt call BS then either.
If you said you were 5'10''....id need to see some footage.
[QUOTE=plowking]How much do you love yourself? Seriously?
I don't have a bit of evidence? Where's Russell's?
"Uh... yeah, I could touch it"...
Well shit, so can I. No evidence saying I can't.
Travis Outlaw is 6'9, the same height as Russell, and James White is 6'8, an inch shorter. James White, the highest jumper in basketball we've ever seen, with a full run up cannot touch the top of the backboard. Keep in mind, the guy has a bigger wingspan than MJ, and it'd probably put him at around the same standing reach as Bill Russell. But no, Russell from the 60's could get that top of the backboard, especially by "standing straight underneath the ring and jumping"...
If you're confused as to whether he was talking about regulation backboards, forget about it, use the "eyes over the ring" account. No way in hell, nor is he even close.[/QUOTE]
Thank you, this is much more logical than most of the posts.
Why is it that NONE of the athletes in the NBA in the last 40 years can do it, yet there are claims of 4-5 players from the 60's doing it and people believe it?
The burden of proof is not on us to prove they can't, if you claim you can do something you better have some evidence.
I've seen Dwight touch 12'6", that's still 6 inches short.
[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]Thank you, this is much more logical than most of the posts.
Why is it that NONE of the athletes in the NBA in the last 40 years can do it, yet there are claims of 4-5 players from the 60's doing it and people believe it?
The burden of proof is not on us to prove they can't, if you claim you can do something you better have some evidence.
I've seen Dwight touch 12'6", that's still 6 inches short.[/QUOTE]
Russ body fram was more of Larry Nance type than Dwight, and Nance can get pretty damn close.
[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]Thank you, this is much more logical than most of the posts.
Why is it that NONE of the athletes in the NBA in the last 40 years can do it, yet there are claims of 4-5 players from the 60's doing it and people believe it?
[B]The burden of proof is not on us to prove they can't, if you claim you can do something you better have some evidence[/B].
I've seen Dwight touch 12'6", that's still 6 inches short.[/QUOTE]
That's NONSENSE and you KNOW it. There is very little footage available on Wilt nor Russell. If we had to have VIDEO proof, then 99% of written history would be worthless.
I'm sure Russell was capable of 13 ft. A WORLD-CLASS high jumper. And we have RESPECTED EYE-WITNESS accounts of Chamberlain doing it. We also have RULES put in place to PREVENT what was COMMONLY accepted...that Wilt could dunk FTs. AND, we have a 12 ft rim in at the SAME university that Chamberlain attended, at the SAME time he was there. I won't bother looking it up, now, but either Psileas or Abe posted a link to a story written by the Kansas newspaper stating that Wilt was dunking on it back then, too.
The burden of proof is on those that would question what is written in the sport's history books...and PLASTERED everywhere on the internet. Where are all those that actually witnessed Wilt (and Russell) who would DISPUTE what is commonly accepted?
[QUOTE=jlauber]That's NONSENSE and you KNOW it. There is very little footage available on Wilt nor Russell. If we had to have VIDEO proof, then 99% of written history would be worthless.
I'm sure Russell was capable of 13 ft. A WORLD-CLASS high jumper. And we have RESPECTED EYE-WITNESS accounts of Chamberlain doing it. We also have RULES put in place to PREVENT what was COMMONLY accepted...that Wilt could dunk FTs. AND, we have a 12 ft rim in at the SAME university that Chamberlain attended, at the SAME time he was there. I won't bother looking it up, now, but either Psileas or Abe posted a link to a story written by the Kansas newspaper stating that Wilt was dunking on it back then, too.
The burden of proof is on those that would question what is written in the sport's history books...and PLASTERED everywhere on the internet. Where are all those that actually witnessed Wilt (and Russell) who would DISPUTE what is commonly accepted?[/QUOTE]
No it's not nonsense. I'm not going to believe something that sounds ridiculous and there's no PROOF to back it up. Stories are exaggerated, particularly when there's no way to disprove them, just like fishing stories.
Why should I believe that Wilt, Russell, Gus Johnson and Connie Hawkins are the 4 most athletic players ever and they all played 40+ years ago? That sounds pretty ridiculous.
If these stories were true, those players would be FAR bigger freaks of nature than Jordan, Dr. J, Dominique, Lebron, David Robinson, Shaq, Dwight Howard, Vince Carter ect.
And Wilt's college coach set up the 12 foot rim because the coach wanted the league to make that the standard. Wilt was the one who claims he could dunk on it, he didn't set up the 12 foot rim for Wilt.
Well Russell is the greatest center of all-time, maybe behind Kareem. But definitely Top 3 and ahead of Shaq.
[QUOTE=Th3ShowMVP]Well Russell is the greatest center of all-time, maybe behind Kareem. But definitely Top 3 and ahead of Shaq.[/QUOTE]
:oldlol: Will you ever quit with this agenda to just disagree with everything I say? Half of your posts now aren't even relevant to the topic like this one.
I'm surprised no one ever talks about David Robinson doing or trying this. He always seemed capable of something like that.
You want Wilt "myths?"
Wilt was a loser. ONE losing season, and in that season he had arguably the greatest individual season in NBA HISTORY. He played in 13 playoffs. He went to 12 Conference Finals. He went to SIX Finals. In FIVE of his post-seasons, his teams lost a game seven...four of them by NINE points...COMBINED. He played on Six 50 win teams. He played on FOUR 60 win teams. And he anchored perhaps the two greatest teams in NBA history, and led them to two titles.
Wilt was a choker. He was NEVER outplayed in the post-season by ANY opposing center. Yes, the great Russell occasionally outplayed him in individual games, but not in entire series. He faced a HOF center in 112 of 160 post-season games, and either outplayed them or dominated them in the vast majority. He was NEVER outrebounded in ONE post-season series...not ONE...and against the likes of Russell, Thurmond, and Kareem. He was only outshot in ONE, and that was by a slim margin (and his opposing center missed some 100 shots more than he did.) If anything Wilt played BRILLIANTLY in the vast majority of his post-seasons.
Russell "owned" Wilt. Completely false. Chamberlain outscored Russell in 132 of their 142 H2H games. Wilt had FIVE games of 50+ against Russell (including a high game of 62.) Wilt held a 24-0 edge in 40+ point games. Russell scored 30+ points against Wilt THREE times (with a high of 37.) However, Wilt outscored Russell in each of those three games. Wilt held a 92-42-8 edge in H2H rebounding. Chamberlain not only outscored Russell in EVERY post-season series, he also outrebounded Russell in EVERY post-season series. Wilt held a 7-1 edge in 40+ rebound games, which included a 55 rebound game (BTW, Russell's high against Wilt was an even 40.) Chamberlain even set a playoff record of 41...against Russell. He also held a staggering 23-4 edge in 35+ rebound games. In terms of shooting, in the games that we actually have a percentage, Wilt holds a commanding edge. In my research, I would estimate that Wilt shot better than 50% against Russell in his career...and that Russell may not have shot much better than 40% against Wilt (several post-season below 40% BTW.) I have posted some 40 games in which Wilt just CRUSHED Russell. There were very few games where Russell even had a marginal statistical edge over Wilt.
Wilt was a selfish "stats padder." Yes, Wilt was proud of his stats. BUT, look at how many times in his career that he changed his game for the so-called benefit of the team (even when his sacrifice resulted in a playoff loss...ala the '68-69 Finals.) Had Wilt been totally interested in scoring, you can bet that MJ would be looking at a career deficit of over 5 ppg to Wilt, maybe more.
All Wilt did was dunk on helpless 6-6 uncoordinated, wimpy, white centers, and that he had no offensive skills. First of all, Wilt faced TWELVE HOF centers in his career (and 70% of his playoff games were against them.) I have named them all before, so I won't bother now...but in any case, he either outplayed, or crushed, them all. As far as his skills..no less than the legendary Red Holzman made the comment that when Wilt entered the NBA he had a good outside shot. Of course, there is VIDEO footage which CONFIRMS that on Youtube. Wilt had 15+ ft range with both a jump shot, and a bank shot. He also had a sweeping hook, and a myriad of post moves that included his deadly finger-roll. Of course, the BURDEN of PROOF now rests on those pundits to PROVE that Wilt did NOT have those skills. Good luck with that...
Those are the REAL myths...not these RIDICULOUS assaults on what has been COMMON KNOWLEDGE...that Wilt was easily touching the top pf backboards, and bench-pressing 500+ lbs.
[QUOTE=jlauber]You want Wilt "myths?"
Wilt was a loser. ONE losing season, and in that season he had arguably the greatest individual season in NBA HISTORY. He played in 13 playoffs. He went to 12 Conference Finals. He went to SIX Finals. In FIVE of his post-seasons, his teams lost a game seven...four of them by NINE points...COMBINED. He played on Six 50 win teams. He played on FOUR 60 win teams. And he anchored perhaps the two greatest teams in NBA history, and led them to two titles.
Wilt was a choker. He was NEVER outplayed in the post-season by ANY opposing center. Yes, the great Russell occasionally outplayed him in individual games, but not in entire series. He faced a HOF center in 112 of 160 post-season games, and either outplayed them or dominated them in the vast majority. He was NEVER outrebounded in ONE post-season series...not ONE...and against the likes of Russell, Thurmond, and Kareem. He was only outshot in ONE, and that was by a slim margin (and his opposing center missed some 100 shots more than he did.) If anything Wilt played BRILLIANTLY in the vast majority of his post-seasons.
Russell "owned" Wilt. Completely false. Chamberlain outscored Russell in 132 of their 142 H2H games. Wilt had FIVE games of 50+ against Russell (including a high game of 62.) Wilt held a 24-0 edge in 40+ point games. Russell scored 30+ points against Wilt THREE times (with a high of 37.) However, Wilt outscored Russell in each of those three games. Wilt held a 92-42-8 edge in H2H rebounding. Chamberlain not only outscored Russell in EVERY post-season series, he also outrebounded Russell in EVERY post-season series. Wilt held a 7-1 edge in 40+ rebound games, which included a 55 rebound game (BTW, Russell's high against Wilt was an even 40.) Chamberlain even set a playoff record of 41...against Russell. He also held a staggering 23-4 edge in 35+ rebound games. In terms of shooting, in the games that we actually have a percentage, Wilt holds a commanding edge. In my research, I would estimate that Wilt shot better than 50% against Russell in his career...and that Russell may not have shot much better than 40% against Wilt (several post-season below 40% BTW.) I have posted some 40 games in which Wilt just CRUSHED Russell. There were very few games where Russell even had a marginal statistical edge over Wilt.
Wilt was a selfish "stats padder." Yes, Wilt was proud of his stats. BUT, look at how many times in his career that he changed his game for the so-called benefit of the team (even when his sacrifice resulted in a playoff loss...ala the '68-69 Finals.) Had Wilt been totally interested in scoring, you can bet that MJ would be looking at a career deficit of over 5 ppg to Wilt, maybe more.
All Wilt did was dunk on helpless 6-6 uncoordinated, wimpy, white centers, and that he had no offensive skills. First of all, Wilt faced TWELVE HOF centers in his career (and 70% of his playoff games were against them.) I have named them all before, so I won't bother now...but in any case, he either outplayed, or crushed, them all. As far as his skills..no less than the legendary Red Holzman made the comment that when Wilt entered the NBA he had a good outside shot. Of course, there is VIDEO footage which CONFIRMS that on Youtube. Wilt had 15+ ft range with both a jump shot, and a bank shot. He also had a sweeping hook, and a myriad of post moves that included his deadly finger-roll. Of course, the BURDEN of PROOF now rests on those pundits to PROVE that Wilt did NOT have those skills. Good luck with that...
Those are the REAL myths...not these RIDICULOUS assaults on what has been COMMON KNOWLEDGE...that Wilt was easily touching the top pf backboards, and bench-pressing 500+ lbs.[/QUOTE]
How are the first 5 paragraphs relevant to this thread and how is the ridiculous 500+ pound bench press claim relevant?
Sure there are plenty of accounts of Wilt and Russell doing things. Like fighting mountain lions with his bare hands or making change at the top of the backboard, sleeping with 20,000 women, could have beat up world champion and top 5 boxer of all time Muhammad Ali and that Ali was in fact scared of him lol...
I guess we should believe all these because of accounts from the past...
Oh, here is a fun fact as well.
James White, who's only an inch or two shorter than Bill Russell recorded a jump 8 inches higher than Russels best, can't touch the backboard, though Russell can.
Amazing.
There we go. Case closed. Stop posting Kblaze, jlauber and PHILA you look stupid. More stupid than usual.
[QUOTE=plowking]Sure there are plenty of accounts of Wilt and Russell doing things. Like fighting mountain lions with his bare hands or making change at the top of the backboard, sleeping with 20,000 women, could have beat up world champion and top 5 boxer of all time Muhammad Ali and that Ali was in fact scared of him lol...
I guess we should believe all these because of accounts from the past...[/QUOTE]
Regarding the mountain lion story, I believe Psileas addressed that. It was entirely possible. Touching the top of the backboard...several eye-witness accounts, including the legendary Sonny Hill. Sleeping with 20,000 women? That number did not actually come from Wilt, although he admitted it. It came from a friend who owned a hotel in Hawaii. In a ten day stay, he counted 23 different women going to Wilt's room. Wilt was around 50 at the time. 2x365= approx 700 x 30 years = approx 20,000. In any case, there are many that would confirm that Chamberlain had a TON of women in his life. Of that there is no dispute. Incidently, he did regret making that "20,000 women" comment. As for fighting Ali. Yes, TWO LEGITIMATE offers. You care to dispute that?
Mountain lions are notorious p******. Berating them verbally is often all that is needed. I once made one cry by calling him a f**.
[QUOTE=plowking]Oh, here is a fun fact as well.
James White, who's only an inch or two shorter than Bill Russell recorded a jump 8 inches higher than Russels best, can't touch the backboard, though Russell can.
Amazing.
There we go. Case closed. Stop posting Kblaze, jlauber and PHILA you look stupid. More stupid than usual.[/QUOTE]
ONCE AGAIN....TECHNIQUE you IDIOT! Remember the "Fosbury Flop" that I posted in response to one of your many stupid posts in this thread??????
And White was 6-7 BTW.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fosbury_Flop[/url]
"The Fosbury Flop is a style used in the athletics event of high jump. It was popularized and perfected by American athlete Dick Fosbury, whose gold medal in the 1968 Summer Olympics brought it to the world's attention. Over the next few years the flop became the dominant style of the event and remains so today. Before Fosbury, most elite jumpers used the Straddle technique, Western Roll, Eastern cut-off or even Scissors-Jump to clear the bar. Given that landing surfaces had previously been sandpits or low piles of matting, [B]high jumpers of earlier years had to land on their feet or at least land carefully to prevent injury. With the advent of deep foam matting high[/B] [B]jumpers were able to be more adventurous in their landing styles and hence experiment with styles of jumping and giving jumpers about 25% higher jumps[/B]."
[I]'Rumor has it that Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, who was 7 feet 2 inches without shoes, and over 7 foot 3 with shoes, once stood next to Bill Russell, holding a basketball. He then looked at Bill and said, "Hey, can you touch the ball without standing on your toes?" He then held the ball as high up above his head as he could, asking Bill to try to touch the ball without standing on his toes, and which point Bill walked over, and standing completely flatfooted, stretched on of his arms up as high as he could... and placed the palm of his hand over the TOP of the basketball (which Kareem's hand was underneath).'
[/I]
[I]'Russell has only a 7'4" wingspan. As for his standing reach, its undetermined. There was however this 7'3" white dude named Swede Halbrook from Oregon and in a photo-op before jumpball in an NCAA regional finals, he raised the ball as high as he could but Russell was still able to place his hands on top of the ball Swede was holding up.
A lot of coaches foremost among them is Red Auerbach maintains that a basketball player's true height is not from his feet to the top of his head but rather from his feet to the tip of his upstretched arms.[/I] [I]
For a more extreme example consider the Logo, Jerry West. Standing only 6'3", West had the same sleeve length as 7'1" Wilt Chamberlain. Wingspans are usually the same as a player's height and West's wingspan exceeded his height by nine to ten inches.'[/I]
[QUOTE]No it's not nonsense. I'm not going to believe something that sounds ridiculous and there's no PROOF to back it up. Stories are exaggerated, particularly when there's no way to disprove them, just like fishing stories.
Why should I believe that Wilt, Russell, Gus Johnson and Connie Hawkins are the 4 most athletic players ever and they all played 40+ years ago? That sounds pretty ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
This is one of the problems...people arguing against things thats arent being said.
You(I think it was you) in here mentioning guysl ike Earl the Goat and so on. 6'2'' people nobody knows anything about but whoever was in NY in the 60s.
We are talking about a near 7 footer and a guy taller than 7. Im talking about 7 foot tall olympic level high jumpers....inthe 60s when I find it likely not all backboards were created equally.
Nobody is saying the 4 greatest athletes of all time were in the 60s. In fact even if all 4 could do it itwouldnt make them the 4 greatest athletes.
Im looking at it case by case with the evidence I have of their athletic ability telling me if its reasonableto dismiss or not.
Plenty of things that sound absurd before looking into them are true. Plenty. If you tell a kid someone back in your day was 6'5'' 250 as strong as a lineman, as fast as a corner, and jumping higher than Vince Carter they might call you an old liar. Doesnt mean Vernon Davis doesnt exist. Speaking of 49er linebackers by the way...
[IMG]http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/24/244456.jpg[/IMG]
Manny Lawson. Only 6'4'' I dont think hes as high as he seems due to that angle....that or the backboard is low...but that dude is flying.
Then we have:
[IMG]http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/6349/jameswhitecb1.jpg[/IMG]
And
[IMG]http://sportsmaven.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/dwight-howard-sticker-at-2007-all-star-weekend-2-17-07.jpg[/IMG]
and
[IMG]http://img240.exs.cx/img240/2136/travisoutlaw4ya.jpg[/IMG]
And we are talking about guys either slightly or a lot taller than any of them Dwight aside.
I think we are making it out to be harder than it is for guys the size we are talking. Im not just throwing blanket "Its true...prove it isnt" over everything said of 60s players.
Im saying I dont see the reason to be so sure about some of these issues.
You dont see me saying Wilt was right about being 54 inches off the ground in that picture with him waist high on a high jump bar warming up. Hes no doubt at least 38-40 something up...which at his size makes him head level to a rim....but I just dont think he did the math right on the 54.
Its not about beiliving whatever someone says because they said it. Its about evidence to me.
And I dont have much evidence to say world class high jumpers who are 6'10'' to 7'1'' couldnt touch the top of a backboard I cant even measure to say is the full height.
I just think there is room to talk between "He and eveyone else who claims they saw it is lying!" amd "No doubt theyhad 54 inch verticals".
I think the people saying they couldnt are as unreasonable as people saying no doubt they could. Neither has the proof and there are at least a few players I dont think its absurd to discuss as possibly doing it.
Especially considering what I still call the biggest issue...
60s backboards.
I have backboards on playgrounds around here that arent regulation(actually they are taller...but they arent regulation). How do I know what backboard they tried it on?
I just feel there are issues that have to be considered before we say "Everyone who says they saw ___ or they did ___ is lying....because I said so".
That so unfair?
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEgRvqQ5x-0[/url]
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]This is one of the problems...people arguing against things thats arent being said.
You(I think it was you) in here mentioning guysl ike Earl the Goat and so on. 6'2'' people nobody knows anything about but whoever was in NY in the 60s.
We are talking about a near 7 footer and a guy taller than 7. Im talking about 7 foot tall olympic level high jumpers....inthe 60s when I find it likely not all backboards were created equally.
Nobody is saying the 4 greatest athletes of all time were in the 60s. In fact even if all 4 could do it itwouldnt make them the 4 greatest athletes.
Im looking at it case by case with the evidence I have of their athletic ability telling me if its reasonableto dismiss or not.
Plenty of things that sound absurd before looking into them are true. Plenty. If you tell a kid someone back in your day was 6'5'' 250 as strong as a lineman, as fast as a corner, and jumping higher than Vince Carter they might call you an old liar. Doesnt mean Vernon Davis doesnt exist. Speaking of 49er linebackers by the way...
[IMG]http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/24/244456.jpg[/IMG]
Manny Lawson. Only 6'4'' I dont think hes as high as he seems due to that angle....that or the backboard is low...but that dude is flying.
Then we have:
[IMG]http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/6349/jameswhitecb1.jpg[/IMG]
And
[IMG]http://sportsmaven.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/dwight-howard-sticker-at-2007-all-star-weekend-2-17-07.jpg[/IMG]
and
[IMG]http://img240.exs.cx/img240/2136/travisoutlaw4ya.jpg[/IMG]
And we are talking about guys either slightly or a lot taller than any of them Dwight aside.
I think we are making it out to be harder than it is for guys the size we are talking. Im not just throwing blanket "Its true...prove it isnt" over everything said of 60s players.
Im saying I dont see the reason to be so sure about some of these issues.
You dont see me saying Wilt was right about being 54 inches off the ground in that picture with him waist high on a high jump bar warming up. Hes no doubt at least 38-40 something up...which at his size makes him head level to a rim....but I just dont think he did the math right on the 54.
Its not about beiliving whatever someone says because they said it. Its about evidence to me.
And I dont have much evidence to say world class high jumpers who are 6'10'' to 7'1'' couldnt touch the top of a backboard I cant even measure to say is the full height.
I just think there is room to talk between "He and eveyone else who claims they saw it is lying!" amd "No doubt theyhad 54 inch verticals".
I think the people saying they couldnt are as unreasonable as people saying no doubt they could. Neither has the proof and there are at least a few players I dont think its absurd to discuss as possibly doing it.
Especially considering what I still call the biggest issue...
60s backboards.
I have backboards on playgrounds around here that arent regulation(actually they are taller...but they arent regulation). How do I know what backboard they tried it on?
I just feel there are issues that have to be considered before we say "Everyone who says they saw ___ or they did ___ is lying....because I said so".
That so unfair?[/QUOTE]
I have said it several times...but does anyone really believe the fastest LEGITIMATE football player, EVER, played in the 60's?
And I would love to have seen Darrell Green, who has a RECORDED 4.35 40, at age [B]40[/B] , and in his prime, taking on Chris Johnson.
Who would believe that Nolan Ryan was throwin 101 MPH, on a SLOW gun, in 1974? By slow, I mean that there are those that believe it would be the equivalent of 107 on TODAY's gun.
Barry Bonds with a measured long HR, (and PED assisted) of 490 ft...which was verifiably DWARFED by a 5-11, 180 lb SWITCH-hitter in the 50's and 60's?
Furthermore, give Hayes, Ryan (who, incidently was clocked at 98 MPH on his very LAST pitch, at age 46, and with an injured arm), and Mantle all the benefits of modern technology, training, medicine, equipment, nutrition, etc...and just how much better would they be today? The same applies to Wilt and Russell, who were clearly among the most exceptional athletes of all-time.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DgRC0pH2Uc[/url]
IS THIS REaL??????????
David Thompson...
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQPVKQIFxVk&feature=related[/url]
I guess he was a liar, too.
[QUOTE]James White, who's only an inch or two shorter than Bill Russell recorded a jump 8 inches higher than Russels best, can't touch the backboard, though Russell can.
Amazing.
There we go. Case closed. Stop posting Kblaze, jlauber and PHILA you look stupid. More stupid than usual.[/QUOTE]
Some things just scream of a lack of concern with facts. If the way Russell was taught to jump generally helped you jump the highest the entire world of track wouldnt have abandoned it by the late 60s.
We are talking about two people 2-3 inches different in height jumping totally different styles 50 years apart with different wingspans and standing reaches and pretending that its fair to assume that becauseo one cant do something he was an inch or two from both cant?
And im stupid?
My whole point is that all things considered there isnt evidence enough to call people who claim to have done/seen a lot of these things liars.
If someone said Bob Cousy touched the top...fine. 7 foot tall olympic high jumpers?
Its case by case.
I dont see the problem.
Bill Russel has a higher vertical leap than Spudd Webb and Nate Robinson
/thread
:facepalm
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]Some things just scream of a lack of concern with facts. If the way Russell was taught to jump generally helped you jump the highest the entire world of track wouldnt have abandoned it by the late 60s.
We are talking about two people 2-3 inches different in height jumping totally different styles 50 years apart with different wingspans and standing reaches and pretending that its fair to assume that becauseo one cant do something he was an inch or two from both cant?
And im stupid?
My whole point is that all things considered there isnt evidence enough to call people who claim to have done/seen a lot of these things liars.
If someone said Bob Cousy touched the top...fine. 7 foot tall olympic high jumpers?
Its case by case.
I dont see the problem.[/QUOTE]
These folks believe that Nate Robinson and Spud Webb could outjump Wilt and Russell.
Look, Kblaze, you have too much common sense for this forum. You obviously research your posts thoroughly, and with back up your arguments with facts and logic. Unfortunately, there are those here who will dispute them no matter what evidence you present. And even if you could produce VIDEO footage, you can be sure that they would question who took the footage, and perhaps even suggest that it was edited.
You may have noticed but there is a clear anti-Wilt agenda by a select few on this forum, and now it is carrying over to Russell, as well. These posters will do consistently disparage what Chamberlain accomplished...no matter just how overwhelming the facts were.
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]This is one of the problems...people arguing against things thats arent being said.
You(I think it was you) in here mentioning guysl ike Earl the Goat and so on. 6'2'' people nobody knows anything about but whoever was in NY in the 60s.
We are talking about a near 7 footer and a guy taller than 7. Im talking about 7 foot tall olympic level high jumpers....inthe 60s when I find it likely not all backboards were created equally.
Nobody is saying the 4 greatest athletes of all time were in the 60s. In fact even if all 4 could do it itwouldnt make them the 4 greatest athletes.
Im looking at it case by case with the evidence I have of their athletic ability telling me if its reasonableto dismiss or not.
Plenty of things that sound absurd before looking into them are true. Plenty. If you tell a kid someone back in your day was 6'5'' 250 as strong as a lineman, as fast as a corner, and jumping higher than Vince Carter they might call you an old liar. Doesnt mean Vernon Davis doesnt exist. Speaking of 49er linebackers by the way...
[IMG]http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/24/244456.jpg[/IMG]
Manny Lawson. Only 6'4'' I dont think hes as high as he seems due to that angle....that or the backboard is low...but that dude is flying.
Then we have:
[IMG]http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/6349/jameswhitecb1.jpg[/IMG]
And
[IMG]http://sportsmaven.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/dwight-howard-sticker-at-2007-all-star-weekend-2-17-07.jpg[/IMG]
and
[IMG]http://img240.exs.cx/img240/2136/travisoutlaw4ya.jpg[/IMG]
And we are talking about guys either slightly or a lot taller than any of them Dwight aside.
I think we are making it out to be harder than it is for guys the size we are talking. Im not just throwing blanket "Its true...prove it isnt" over everything said of 60s players.
Im saying I dont see the reason to be so sure about some of these issues.
You dont see me saying Wilt was right about being 54 inches off the ground in that picture with him waist high on a high jump bar warming up. Hes no doubt at least 38-40 something up...which at his size makes him head level to a rim....but I just dont think he did the math right on the 54.
Its not about beiliving whatever someone says because they said it. Its about evidence to me.
And I dont have much evidence to say world class high jumpers who are 6'10'' to 7'1'' couldnt touch the top of a backboard I cant even measure to say is the full height.
I just think there is room to talk between "He and eveyone else who claims they saw it is lying!" amd "No doubt theyhad 54 inch verticals".
I think the people saying they couldnt are as unreasonable as people saying no doubt they could. Neither has the proof and there are at least a few players I dont think its absurd to discuss as possibly doing it.
Especially considering what I still call the biggest issue...
60s backboards.
I have backboards on playgrounds around here that arent regulation(actually they are taller...but they arent regulation). How do I know what backboard they tried it on?
I just feel there are issues that have to be considered before we say "Everyone who says they saw ___ or they did ___ is lying....because I said so".
That so unfair?[/QUOTE]
Except, 7 footers, even the most athletic ones don't have verticals like Carter, White, Jordan ect. Not Robinson, young Shaq, not Garnett ect. So why should I believe Wilt could jump so much higher than them?
[QUOTE=jlauber][B]These folks believe that Nate Robinson and Spud Webb could outjump Wilt and Russell.[/B]
Look, Kblaze, you have too much common sense for this forum. You obviously research your posts thoroughly, and with back up your arguments with facts and logic. Unfortunately, there are those here who will dispute them no matter what evidence you present. And even if you could produce VIDEO footage, you can be sure that they would question who took the footage, and perhaps even suggest that it was edited.
You may have noticed but there is a clear anti-Wilt agenda by a select few on this forum, and now it is carrying over to Russell, as well. These posters will do consistently disparage what Chamberlain accomplished...no matter just how overwhelming the facts were.[/QUOTE]
You are truly dumb if you think they couldnt...
[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]Except, 7 footers, even the most athletic ones don't have verticals like Carter, White, Jordan ect. Not Robinson, young Shaq, not Garnett ect. So why should I believe Wilt could jump so much higher than them?[/QUOTE]
How many of those you mentioned were world-class high-jumpers?
[QUOTE=jlauber]How many of those you mentioned were world-class high-jumpers?[/QUOTE]
Who said Wilt was a world class high jumper? Didn't he compete in high school? And I highly doubt high jumpers in the 60's were jumping like high jumpers in the 90's/00's and did any of the big men I mentioned show an interest in high jumping so how can you use that against them?
[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]Who said Wilt was a world class high jumper? Didn't he compete in high school? And I highly doubt high jumpers in the 60's were jumping like high jumpers in the 90's/00's and did any of the big men I mentioned show an interest in high jumping so how can you use that against them?[/QUOTE]
Bill Russell most certainly was. And Wilt was a Big-8 high jump champ. And you are right, the high jumpers of the 90's and 00's (James White one of them) were doing basically the same technique that was pioneered by Dick Fosbury in 1968...and well after Russell and Wilt's heyday. And, as that article mentioned, that TECHNIQUE brought about jumps with as much as a 25% difference.
Wilt was also a competitive LONG JUMPER, and a SPRINTER as well. Given the fact that he was at least 7-1, and had a KNOWN wingspan of 7-8...well 13 ft is a GIVEN. The real question, what was his MAXIMUM?
[QUOTE]winning the high jump competition in the Big Eight track and field championships, clearing the bar at 6-6."[/QUOTE]
I think people overlook the fact that from his feet to his waist, Wilt was freakishly long. He was ~ 4.5 feet tall at his waist. High jump is all about getting the lower half of your body over the bar (ie. getting your waist over) and the rest of your body will follow, especially the way the old schoolers jumped.
What he lacked for in his vertical jump, he makes up easily with his long legs. Wilt essentially had a foot higher head start over your typical high jumper because of this. He needs to jump only about 2 feet to get his waist level with the bar. Measuring purely the vertical part of his jump, he needs to jump about ~ 2.5 feet to clear the bar with his waist and then time his legs to cross as well. Notice here, it's all about getting his waist about half a foot over the bar:
[IMG]http://i30.tinypic.com/18g7f5.jpg[/IMG]
It's great coordination for a man his size, but the freakishly long lower half of his body is what make him a great high jumper, not his vertical (which is quite average). The fact his highest jump was 6'6, only further confirms that his vertical was in the 30-33 inch range, because that's exactly the height you'd expect him to max out at.
LOL @ 42+ inches. Yea, I'm sure Wilt had a higher vertical than MJ and Vince. Makes me wonder how these people function in real life with such little common sense. Nothing worse than stans who go out of their way to exaggerate their favorite athlete's feats. There's no doubt in my mind Russell had a higher vertical leap, he cleared 6'8 while being much shorter and would routinely win jumpballs against him.