Bynum will be a good center...15-8.
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Bynum will be a good center...15-8.
I would love KG...but at this point I want to keep Bynum. Odom...maybe...but I really like the guy in LA.
So KG....sorry man. We don't need ya.
Kobe doesn't want a player as good as KG on his team.. same reason he didn't want Dirk on his team when Shaq was traded. Same reason he didn't want Caron Butler on his team. Same reason he won't let Odom shoot.
Kobe's self destructive. He wants to go down in flames. Playing with KG would be smart.. which is why Kobe won't do it.
Lakers are looking solid right now along with great chemstry. It's not like they will be instant contenders even with KG. In the east yes but in the west no.
PG: Smush :roll:
SG: Kobe
SF: Walton
PF: KG
C Kwame
Can Mihm be traded? If so be a nice expirer for the T-Wolves.
[quote]Bynum is a special talent. A rare, special talent.[/quote]
Right, and Kevin Garnett isn't?
[quote=braden.]Right, and Kevin Garnett isn't?[/quote]
I don't think that was the point of his comment....
:pimp:
Kobe = Jordan
Odom = Pippen
Bynum = Adbul Jabbar
sounds familiar...
[QUOTE=SleepyCorpse]Kobe = Jordan
Odom = Pippen
Bynum = Adbul Jabbar
sounds familiar...[/QUOTE]
I don't think so. Odom = Pippen? Bynum = Abdul Jabbar? Ha Ha. Even the lakers fans here shouldn't agree. The only half-baked arguable one is kobe = jordan and even that is to a great extent, far-fetched.
Lakers are doing good right now. I want to watch kobe in the finals again and hopefully he will take over and not do the "hero" by ditching out assists. It should be obvious that Kobe is most valuable when scoring because I think he can do it at will.
Why do people act like Andrew Bynum is sooo great? It's only been 12 games or so. He is good but don't say "Sorry garnett is not worth it". Let me be 1-2 seasons and that would be reasonable. But i'll laugh when the offseason comes adn people say "we should of traded bynum" haha. Well, I hope the lakers get really good again. Kobe is a great player to watch and I'm sure many of countless Lakers fans are only a lakers fan because of Kobe.
Also, the #8 was much better.
And since I am a fan of Ron Artest and have watched many Sacramento games, if we judge everyone's potential by what they have done so far, Kevin Martin should be one of the best in the league? Averaging 25ppg under 15 fg attempts, at 55% fg, 50% 3-point fg, 91% ft. Assuming that keeps up...wow?
Garnett getting mad hate in this thread.
[QUOTE=SleepyCorpse]Kobe = Jordan
Odom = Pippen
Bynum = Adbul Jabbar
sounds familiar...[/QUOTE]
Uh.....no.
Rocket fans hate Bynum because they know there is a good chance he will eclipse Yao in 2 years if not next year. It should be interesting on how they match up this year, but I think PJ will let Kwame bully him up most of the game because Yao becomes unglued a little when he's pushed around.
[QUOTE=KobeLookLike2Pac]Rocket fans hate Bynum because they know there is a good chance he will eclipse Yao in 2 years if not next year. It should be interesting on how they match up this year, but I think PJ will let Kwame bully him up most of the game because Yao becomes unglued a little when he's pushed around.[/QUOTE]
If Bynum "eclipses" (strong word, keep in mind) the Yao Ming of this season and the second half of last season, that'd make him better than Kobe. Why can't Kobe win without a player better than him? Why can't he win without a dominant big man? :confusedshrug:
[QUOTE]Rocket fans hate Bynum because they know there is a good chance he will eclipse Yao in 2 years if not next year.[/QUOTE]
What?
Yao is a 26 and 10 player who can stay in late in games because he shoots 85% from the line. He's battling Duncan for the title of best post player in the league right now. How do you see Bynum accomplishing that in the next two seasons?
[QUOTE=KobeLookLike2Pac]Rocket fans hate Bynum because they know there is a good chance he will eclipse Yao in 2 years if not next year. It should be interesting on how they match up this year, but I think PJ will let Kwame bully him up most of the game because Yao becomes unglued a little when he's pushed around.[/QUOTE]
:roll:
Talk about delusional. Bynum gets hate b/c of Laker groupies who hail him as the second coming of Kareem. And now you're saying Kwame can guard Yao Ming by bullying him? RIIIIIGHHT...if it were THAT easy, the guy wouldnt be averaging 27/10/2. If it were that easy, he wouldnt have lit Shaq up for 34/16.
Bynum is nowhere near Yao's league. If he were to eclipse Yao in 2 years, that would make Bynum the best center in the league. Better than Dwight Howard, mind you.
[QUOTE=Loki]If Bynum "eclipses" (strong word, keep in mind) the Yao Ming of this season and the second half of last season, that'd make him better than Kobe. Why can't Kobe win without a player better than him? Why can't he win without a dominant big man? :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
You are right, Kobe can't win **** without a big man better than him. If you expected an argument, you won't find one here.
The sad thing is that at least he has been able to win with a great big man while Yao can't win with a talented guard, TMac can't win with a talented big, and they both definitely can't win by themselves. :roll: In other words they are both DOOMED!
[QUOTE=JSub]
Bynum is nowhere near Yao's league. If he were to eclipse Yao in 2 years, that would make Bynum the best center in the league. Better than Dwight Howard, mind you.[/QUOTE]
Dwight will be better than Yao by next year when his soft ass starts to be exposed and Bynum will be better than Yao in a couple of years. At that time Yao will be lucky to be the 3rd best center in the league. But right now Yao needs to focus on Zach Randolph, him and Yao are pretty much neck and neck.
[QUOTE=KobeLookLike2Pac]Dwight will be better than Yao by next year when his soft ass starts to be exposed and Bynum will be better than Yao in a couple of years. At that time Yao will be lucky to be the 3rd best center in the league. [B]But right now Yao needs to focus on Zach Randolph, him and Yao are pretty much neck and neck.[/B][/QUOTE]
:roll: :roll: :roll:
[QUOTE=KobeLookLike2Pac]Dwight will be better than Yao by next year when his soft ass starts to be exposed and Bynum will be better than Yao in a couple of years. At that time Yao will be lucky to be the 3rd best center in the league. But right now Yao needs to focus on Zach Randolph, him and Yao are pretty much neck and neck.[/QUOTE]
wassup smokee, how are ya
[QUOTE=KobeLookLike2Pac]You are right, Kobe can't win **** without a big man better than him. If you expected an argument, you won't find one here.
[/QUOTE]
At least you're honest. I give you credit for that. Personally, I think Kobe can win one more ring without a dominant big or a player better than he is, but not more than one more ring. Hell, he already has a solid center rotation (18.1 pts/14.1 reb/2.6 blks between Bynum and Brown).
[QUOTE=Loki]At least you're honest. I give you credit for that. [/QUOTE]
True but I am also not a fan of Kobe.
[QUOTE=KobeLookLike2Pac]True but I am also not a fan of Kobe.[/QUOTE]
Oh, hah. That explains it, then. :D No Laker/Kobe fan would ever admit as much, imo.
I wouldn't give up Odom & Bynum LAST season, let alone this season for any player in this league. Bynum has the potential to be a dominant center in this league, a Shaquille type of player...he has great upside, he should be untouchable. Kid is only 19 and is showing signs of greatness.
25/15/5/3 from this kid in 3 years....on 55% shooting.
[QUOTE=West-Side]I wouldn't give up Odom & Bynum LAST season, let alone this season for any player in this league. Bynum has the potential to be a dominant center in this league, a Shaquille type of player...he has great upside, he should be untouchable. Kid is only 19 and is showing signs of greatness.
[b]25/15/5/3[/b] from this kid in 3 years....on 55% shooting.[/QUOTE]
So better than Kobe? Why can't Kobe win without a dominant big man? Why can't he win without a player better than he is? :confusedshrug:
[QUOTE]So better than Kobe? Why can't Kobe win without a dominant big man? Why can't he win without a player better than he is?[/QUOTE]
:confusedshrug: Where you're going with it, your post is beyond going nowhere...stick to numbers.
I didn't even mention Kobe, yet it's the "groupies" that always bring him into discussions.
Why do you always root against the Lakers, can't you stick to a team....everytime I'm here talking about a Laker game, you're whinning about how LA are lucky and sh*t...don't you have a team that you root for, are you Knoe Itawl? He seems to have the same approach on this message board. Or AAP, maybe you're all 3.
The reason your post is beyond retarded is Kobe had 2 years to lead a team with absolutely no inside presence in a tough conference filled with big man. Kobe just like your idol Jordan couldn't lead a team unless that team had talent, just like any other great player in the past.
I think it is fair for both sides.
The Lakers should do it IMO... Kobe + Garnett is a dream pairing. That's a championship IMO.
[QUOTE=Loki]So better than Kobe? Why can't Kobe win without a dominant big man? Why can't he win without a player better than he is? :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
garnett isnt better than kobe, :stupid: at that suggestion.
[QUOTE=West-Side]The reason your post is beyond retarded is Kobe had 2 years to lead a team with absolutely no inside presence in a tough conference filled with big man. Kobe just like your idol Jordan couldn't lead a team unless that team had talent, just like any other great player in the past.[/QUOTE]
you arent comparing frigging scottie pippen with shaq, right ? :wtf:
Bynum is getting overrated like a mofo in this thread.
He will be a nice player... but an all-time great like KG?? It's way too early to make that judgement.
I wouldn't even say the same about Dwight Howard and he has shown way more.
Plus Bynum is still a few years away from being an offensive big man... Kobe only has about a 2-3 year window left.
KG is ready to go now.
By Bill Simmons
Page 2
Editor's note: This article appears in the Dec. 4 issue of ESPN The Magazine.
Kevin Garnett should have flipped out by now. And I'm not talking about a simple tantrum. Why isn't he acting more disruptively than the schoolkids in "The Wire?" He should arrive for home games wearing a sweatshirt that reads I HATE IT HERE. He should give Dwane Casey the nickname Expletive Deleted. He should call Marko Jaric, Ricky Davis and Mark Blount Loser No. 1, Loser No. 2 and Loser No. 3 and refer to Kevin McHale only as the Guy Who Ruined My Life. He should be looking to get whistled for a "flagrant nine" foul and lying on scorers' tables on the road praying for a drunken spectator to lob a beer at him so he can break out his best Artest moves. He should hire Sam Cassell and Latrell Sprewell impersonators to go with him everywhere, just so he can tell anyone who asks that he wants a reminder of the one season when he didn't want to kill somebody.
All right, that last idea is a little ridiculous -- no one on the planet could begin to resemble either Cassell or Spree -- but you get the picture. KG's basketball career has become a borderline American tragedy. Here's one of the greatest big men ever, one of the fiercest competitors in any sport, someone who could finish his career with historic scoring and rebounding numbers ... and yet we have absolutely no clue how good he really is. He's played with, by my count, only six quality players in his 12 seasons: Joe Smith, Stephon Marbury, Terrell Brandon, Cassell, Sprewell and Wally Szczerbiak. His only "decent" coach was Flip Saunders, who is currently running the Pistons into the ground. The guy making the player moves has always been the memorably incompetent McHale, and KG's only owner, Glen Taylor, famously squandered four first-rounders by illegally negotiating Smith's ill-conceived, cap-violating contract.
How badly has this team been mismanaged? It hasn't drafted a quality starter in seven seasons. It essentially traded Cassell for Jaric and threw in a first-round pick. It has surrounded KG with career losers and bad-attitude guys like Davis, Blount, Troy Hudson and Eddie Griffin. If there's a master plan, it seems to be: "Let's kill our cap space, squander as many picks as possible and see if KG snaps." If you remove Mark Madsen from the current roster, KG has more career playoff minutes than everyone else combined.
He isn't a young dude anymore, either. Do you realize he's 30? That this is his 12th season? That he has played more than 900 NBA games (including playoffs)? KG might be 30, but if NBA years were like dog years, he'd be, well, pretty damn old.
It's impossible not to feel sorry for him. Always one of the most intense players in the league, Garnett's emotion has morphed into something much more grim, as if he's fighting the urge to pull a Kermit Washington on someone, anyone. Seeing him in person, you can practically hear the clock ticking, like he's an aging single woman with rumbling ovaries. You can see the desperation on his face, the frustration, and almost hear the anguished inner monologue: "My career is wasting away." He's the most tragic figure in the league, a superstar buried on a perpetually impotent team, a loyal player who can't stand losing but is stuck with selfish guys and keeps finding himself walking off in defeat. His saga is the saddest subplot of the 2006-07 season.
And few fans seem to give a crap.
Well, I give a crap. To be fair, though, I don't care as much about KG as I do about his place in history. I want to know how good he is. Don't we need an answer? After old friend Paul Shirley was released by the Timberwolves before the start of the season, he sent me a gushing e-mail about KG's everyday brilliance that said if KG had played on a contender his entire career, "people would speak of him as a candidate for best player ever." Will that end up being KG's legacy: the coulda-shoulda-woulda star who ended up the Ernie Banks or Barry Sanders of basketball?
I can't help thinking that in one sense he deserves some of the blame. Yes, he's one of the best power forwards ever. I rank him fourth, behind Tim Duncan, Charles Barkley and Karl Malone, and just ahead of McHale and D.C. from Fast Break. And we know he can produce in the clutch from that monster 2004 MVP season that culminated in a sublime 32-point, 21-rebound Game 7 against the Kings. We can also agree, his career would have been different if he had somehow switched places with Duncan.
But maybe KG is too passionate for his own good. By all accounts, he's so wound up before games, it affects everyone around him; he wouldn't even allow anyone to listen to music in the locker room before Cassell arrived. He's not above punching teammates in practices. And he's famous for yelping ferociously after big plays, clenching his fists and screaming toward the ceiling like a WWE wrestler. He's never learned to adapt his game to the situation; he plays the same in a mid-November blowout and a deciding playoff game, which explains why he seemed spent during the 2004 conference finals against the Lakers. That was his longest season by far -- seven months and exactly 100 games -- and in classic KG fashion, he averaged 24-14-5 in the regular season and an almost identical 24-15-5 in the playoffs. Superstars like Duncan know when to dominate and when to keep something in reserve for big moments. KG plays only in fifth gear. Of course, that nonstop fervor has always been his most admirable quality, right up there with his insistence on passing out of double- and triple-teams (even if he's finding crummy outside shooters and inadvertently hurting his chances). Along with Steve Nash, he's the ultimate team player. Which makes this whole thing such a shame. I watched the Timberwolves lose on consecutive nights recently and realized two things. First, they don't have an above-average player other than KG. And second, KG's body language, especially after Peja Stojakovic's game-winning three, makes him seem almost resigned to his fate, like an unhappy husband who can't stomach the thought of a divorce because he doesn't want to hurt his children. It's depressing to watch.
In his shoes, maybe you or I would have sabotaged our situation already, but that's what is great about KG: Instead of quitting on a lost cause to force Minnesota's hand, he just keeps busting his butt and waiting to be saved.
And that's why someone needs to save him. For the good of the league, David Stern needs to "nudge" McHale and Taylor to make a move. Trade the man to the Bulls or the Clippers or the Lakers, all of whom have the right combination of young players and picks to make a palatable exchange. Stick Garnett in a big market with quality teammates and see what happens. We need to see what he can really do, and so does he.
Whether he wants to admit it or not.
i would go for howard over garnett.
[QUOTE]you arent comparing frigging scottie pippen with shaq, right ?[/QUOTE]
Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant, BJ Armstrong, Tony Kokuc, Dennis Rodman, Ron Harper...that's the talent Jordan had when he started winning, both Grant and BJ made all-star team when Jordan was playing baseball...tell me in the past 2 years how many all-stars Kobe had?
Zero...none, zilch...Shaquille was obviously better then Pippen, hence I said if Jordan played with a prime Shaq he wouldn't be the number 1 option....unless you're an idiot of a coach who won't utilize Shaquille fully...Jordan had a more rounded team then Kobe when he won his titles with Shaquille. I hate comparing the two scenarios, because there are alot of uncomparable elements.
1. BJ Armstrong may have made the Allstar team, but he's probably the least talented and least deserving allstar ever.
2. Bill Simmons is the best basketball writer at ESPN.
3. Kevin Garnett needs the losses to build up before the trade deadline, so he can get shipped sooner rather than later, meaning the TWolves will most likely get screwed over. The franchise deserves to wallow in mediocrity. Which leads me to my next point......
4. Kevin McHale is a moron. How someone can not add quality talent around the most admirable talent in the entire league is beyond me. He could have added any number of solid players to the rotation over the years. Most recently he could have tried for the likes of Vince Carter, or maybe a Steve Francis.
[quote=lakers-city]i would go for howard over garnett.[/quote]
Agreed... he's young and has great upside to say the least.
:pimp:
Keep Bynum he will be a great player.. You would be able to build a team around him. Kobe, will play for another 7 years a least...So win now or win later its ok with me because I will always be a laker fan.
[QUOTE=lakers-city]garnett isnt better than kobe, :stupid: at that suggestion.[/QUOTE]
Hmm? Kobe has been better than Kobe for all of one season. KG has been better than Kobe for 6 seasons prior to that. KG has had, by far, the more impressive individual career (counting statistics/individual accomplishments, not rings). Hence, KG is better than Kobe. If you want to [b]only[/b] count last season (when I admit Kobe > KG), then why not count this season, when KG > Kobe by quite a bit? Sorry, but one season doesn't make Kobe > Garnett overall.
[quote=West Side]The reason your post is beyond retarded is Kobe had 2 years to lead a team with absolutely no inside presence in a tough conference filled with big man[/quote]
There's a difference between having an "inside presence" and having a 25/15/5/3 big man. Why does he need the latter and not just the former? He has an inside presence right now with Kwame and Bynum (14.1 pts/18.1 reb/2.6 blk between them). Of course everyone needs help to win, but why does Kobe need a [b]dominant[/b] (not just serviceable, like he has now) big man?
And then, even when some Laker fans talk about having, say, KG and Kobe on the same team, they still want more! They talk about how weak their PG and SF positions are. Apparently they feel that the only way they can win is to have studs at every position, as if all championship teams have/had that luxury. :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Loki]Hmm? Kobe has been better than Kobe for all of one season. KG has been better than Kobe for 6 seasons prior to that. KG has had, by far, the more impressive individual career (counting statistics/individual accomplishments, not rings). Hence, KG is better than Kobe. If you want to [b]only[/b] count last season (when I admit Kobe > KG), then why not count this season, when KG > Kobe by quite a bit? Sorry, but one season doesn't make Kobe > Garnett overall.
[/quote]
yeah, better individual numbers on losing teams who miss the playoffs or get blown away in the 1st round, why discount kobe's rings and playoffs success ? because it clearly makes him better than garnett ? rings and playoffs success is what makes duncan and shaq better than garnett as well, not their numbers.
[QUOTE=Se
no trades are happening with KG in 'em this season for sure.