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[QUOTE=Shih508]3 50 points + in playoff out of 71 games for AI (won all 3 games)
0 50 points + in playoff out of 72 games for Dwhistle in high scoring avg and more favorable scoring rule
1 50 points + in playoff out of 208 games for Kobe overrated Bryant
[B]talking about best scoring sg post jordan-era[/B]
here's ur answer for those who never watch AI played, or pretend to be like they watched before[/QUOTE]
can u shut up with that shit?
this whole post is pretty idiotic.
Thread pretty much sums up the overall intelligence level of the "fans" on this forum. People just post up stats without even looking at percentages.
Wade is FAR more efficient than Iverson was and also much more of a factor playing defense.
Iverson was an amazing one-on-one scorer and ballhandler, but Wade is a better player and it isn't really debatable, sorry.
Wade's game is built for more success in a variety of scenarios. There's only one kind of team that was successful around prime Iverson: surround him with defensive players with marginal offensive skills, and let Iverson shoot all day and night. I got caught up in Iverson's hype too when he first came out, and I"ll give him credit for what he did in his prime. But Wade is the better all-around player, and that's not really debatable to be honest.
[QUOTE=Geezer]Thread pretty much sums up the overall intelligence level of the "fans" on this forum. People just post up stats without even looking at percentages.
Wade is FAR more efficient than Iverson was and also much more of a factor playing defense.
Iverson was an amazing one-on-one scorer and ballhandler, but Wade is a better player and it isn't really debatable, sorry.[/QUOTE]
thats how I look at it
Iverson has better handles and a better outside shot than Wade and thats really it and guys are like "IVERSON IS THE BEST SCORER SINCE MJ"
What exactly does Iverson have on Wade? Scoring similar PPG on significantly lower FG%?
[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]If you don't understand how or why Iverson was a better scorer than Wade than you are definitely a new basketball fan. Iverson is easily one of the best scorers of all time and that was as a 6'0 165 pound slashing guard with a streaky shot. Iverson is leaps ahead of Wade when it comes to scoring. Wade is more efficient but Iverson was by far the more explosive, consistent and dependable scorer. These 10 point games Wade has occasionally almost never happened with Iverson in his prime.
Wade is a better defender... and rebounder and that has a lot to do with his size and strength. Iverson was a better off the ball defender and better at playing passing lanes. Both equal passers/playmakers but Iverson never played next to an elite talent like just out of prime Shaq or Lebron.[/QUOTE]
:bowdown:
The only aspect Iverson even has a case for is scoring and even there he's clearly outclassed. Wade gives you 30 on close to 50% shooting while Iverson gives you 30 on 42% on a good day. How is Iverson a better scorer? I would love to see an explanation.
[QUOTE=305Baller][IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8f/Iverson_dribbling.jpg/220px-Iverson_dribbling.jpg[/IMG]
Regular season
Year Team GP GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG
1996
[QUOTE=donald_trump]lol iverson was not a better scorer than wade.
wade is better at getting to the ring.
better from midrange.
equal from 3.
better in the post.
and better off the catch and shoot.
what makes iverson the better scorer? id love to hear the reasons for the people claiming so.[/QUOTE]
Iverson was better catch and shoot player. in 01, he was one of the best catch and shoot player in the league.
Iverson had more range and probably better shooter than wade.
Wade's midrange jumper was great back in 06 but now its not that deadly.Iverson had great jumper almost all career.
Wade has better post of couse. Iverson is barely 6'0 and 165.
Both of them great at getting ring.Prime AI was getting his scores more around rim than his later years.Wade is more effective near to rim due to his size and strenght over iverson.
Iverson had 4 more than 30 ppg seasons.30.7,31.1,31.4 and 33.0. Wade's peak is 30.2.
At 30 years old iverson had 33 ppg,7.4 apg. Wade at 29 years old had 25.5 ppg and 4.6 apg.
For the ones who might say Wade playing next to lebron so his numbers getting lower...Iverson played with Melo at the 32 years old. (same age with today's so called too old kobe)
Wade with Lebron (at 29 years old)
25.5 ppg,6.4 rpg, 4.6 apg.
Iverson with Melo (at 32 years old)
26.4 ppg,3 rpg,7.1 apg.
Iverson has
MVP
4 scoring titles (most after Jordan & Wilt)
6th best ppg in regular season history (He was 3rd before trade to detroit.. but still has change to rise up due to Lebron's numbers going down)
2nd best ppg in playoff history.
1st at steal leading for 3 times.
Arguably one of the toughest player ever in NBA (if not most)
He did it all with being 6'0 and 165 pounds in giants league.Let's not forget he played great against mighty Bulls back in 90's.
Wade has
1 ring.
1 scoring title.
People always tend to forget Wade is at 29 and his prime years. Iverson played until 34 and his last 2 seasons were bad because of bad management and injuries.
so Iverson in 14 seasons:
[B]26.7 ppg[/B]
3.7 rpg
6.2 apg
[B]2.2 spg[/B]
0.2 bpg
42.5 %FG, [B]31.3 %3PT, 78 %FT
[/B]
Wade in 8 seasons:
25.4 ppg
[B]5.1 rpg
6.3 apg[/B]
1.8 spg
[B]1 bpg[/B]
[B]48.5 %FG[/B], 29.2 %3PT, 76.9 %FT.
There is a big possiblity that Wade's career numbers will go down while he may win more rings.I assume Wade will end up at better ranking in most of media guys and fans head.
Both of them great players for sure. Wade is more all around while iverson were better scorer and thief.
Saying iverson wasn't on same level with Wade is for only ignorants.
Kobe,Wade,Iverson, Pre-Injury T-Mac were almost same level. Some of them were better scorers,some of them better passers,some of them better rebounders..but they were at same level.Anybody who is not a stan and watch early 00's and today probably would know it.
[QUOTE=rodman91]Iverson was better catch and shoot player. in 01, he was one of the best catch and shoot player in the league.
Iverson had more range and probably better shooter than wade.
Wade's midrange jumper was great back in 06 but now its not that deadly.Iverson had great jumper almost all career.
Wade has better post of couse. Iverson is barely 6'0 and 165.
Both of them great at getting ring.Prime AI was getting his scores more around rim than his later years.Wade is more effective near to rim due to his size and strenght over iverson.
Iverson had 4 more than 30 ppg seasons.30.7,31.1,31.4 and 33.0. Wade's peak is 30.2.
At 30 years old iverson had 33 ppg,7.4 apg. Wade at 29 years old had 25.5 ppg and 4.6 apg.
For the ones who might say Wade playing next to lebron so his numbers getting lower...Iverson played with Melo at the 32 years old. (same age with today's so called too old kobe)
Wade with Lebron (at 29 years old)
25.5 ppg,6.4 rpg, 4.6 apg.
Iverson with Melo (at 32 years old)
26.4 ppg,3 rpg,7.1 apg.
Iverson has
MVP
4 scoring titles (most after Jordan & Wilt)
6th best ppg in regular season history (He was 3rd before trade to detroit.. but still has change to rise up due to Lebron's numbers going down)
2nd best ppg in playoff history.
1st at steal leading for 3 times.
Arguably one of the toughest player ever in NBA (if not most)
He did it all with being 6'0 and 165 pounds in giants league.Let's not forget he played great against mighty Bulls back in 90's.
Wade has
1 ring.
1 scoring title.
People always tend to forget Wade is at 29 and his prime years. Iverson played until 34 and his last 2 seasons were bad because of bad management and injuries.
so Iverson in 14 seasons:
[B]26.7 ppg[/B]
3.7 rpg
6.2 apg
[B]2.2 spg[/B]
0.2 bpg
42.5 %FG, [B]31.3 %3PT, 78 %FT
[/B]
Wade in 8 seasons:
25.4 ppg
[B]5.1 rpg
6.3 apg[/B]
1.8 spg
[B]1 bpg[/B]
[B]48.5 %FG[/B], 29.2 %3PT, 76.9 %FT.
There is a big possiblity that Wade's career numbers will go down while he may win more rings.I assume Wade will end up at better ranking in most of media guys and fans head.
Both of them great players for sure. Wade is more all around while iverson were better scorer and thief.
Saying iverson wasn't on same level with Wade is for only ignorants.
Kobe,Wade,Iverson, Pre-Injury T-Mac were almost same level. Some of them were better scorers,some of them better passers,some of them better rebounders..but they were at same level.Anybody who is not a stan and watch early 00's and today probably would know it.[/QUOTE]
Wow, Iverson is ludicrously overrated. He was never on Wade, Kobe or prime T-Mac level. He doesn't do a single thing better than those guys unless you bring up minor stuff like their ball handling, gambling on defense etc.
Why are you bringing up scoring titles here? Wade didn't have the green light to chuck for 10 years like Iverson did. I also love how you bold Iverson's 3P% and FT% when they barely make a difference and ignore the grand canyon size gap between their FG%. You also need to take a look at the minutes Iverson played when looking at his numbers. He was routinely one of the league leaders because he didn't like being out of the game.
Wade is a lot better to the point where it doesn't warrant a comparison.
[QUOTE=rodman91]
Wade with Lebron (at 29 years old)
25.5 ppg,6.4 rpg, 4.6 apg.
Iverson with Melo (at 32 years old)
26.4 ppg,3 rpg,7.1 apg.
[/QUOTE]
Playing with Lebron isn't the same as playing with Melo, Lebron is far more ball-dominant, which can easily explain why Wade's assists dropped from their normal 6-7 to under 5. Wade in a situation where he wasn't splitting playmaking duties with Lebron would have likely averaged more points and assists. Not to forget that they had to incorporate Bosh into their offensive scheme as well, putting up 18.7. In the season you're referring to with Iverson, the next scorer was Kenyon Martin at 12.5 ppg, and the majority of his baskets were off feeds from Iverson/Melo, and putbacks.
[QUOTE=FKAri]AI was a system player. He was also the better scorer.
Wade's game is much more versatile so he can be successful in more situations and contribute in more ways.
I'll go with Wade.[/QUOTE]
:wtf:
[QUOTE=zay_24]AI led his team to the finals, what has wade done[/QUOTE]
These dumbass ni99as.
[QUOTE=NugzHeat3]Wow, Iverson is ludicrously overrated. He was never on Wade, Kobe or prime T-Mac level. He doesn't do a single thing better than those guys unless you bring up minor stuff like their ball handling, gambling on defense etc.
Why are you bringing up scoring titles here? Wade didn't have the green light to chuck for 10 years like Iverson did. I also love how you bold Iverson's 3P% and FT% when they barely make a difference and ignore the grand canyon size gap between their FG%. You also need to take a look at the minutes Iverson played when looking at his numbers. He was routinely one of the league leaders because he didn't like being out of the game.
Wade is a lot better to the point where it doesn't warrant a comparison.[/QUOTE]
I bold wade's fg. i bold wades assist number even its only 0.1 more.
Wade had that green light for years.Shaq wasn't as profilic scorer as he was in LA years. Also until lebron and bosh unite there were some years. Also Iverson at denver used only one more shot per game.
Of course none of these ment anything when you have [B]Heat3[/B] in your nick probably.
[QUOTE=rodman91]I bold wade's fg. i bold wades assist number even its only 0.1 more.
Wade had that green light for years.Shaq wasn't as profilic scorer as he was in LA years. Also until lebron and bosh unite there were some years. Also Iverson at denver used only one more shot per game.
Of course none of these ment anything when you have [B]Heat3[/B] in your nick probably.[/QUOTE]
Wade didn't have the green light to chuck when Shaq was here. It was a much more balanced offense with Shaq getting his touches and getting the shooters involved. The only years where Wade was in a AI-like situation were 2009 and 2010. If Wade really wanted to win scoring titles, he could've easily done it. He averaged 30 ppg on 49% shooting in 2009. No season by Iverson comes close to that. He was also doing this in 38.6 mpg while Iverson would play a lot more minutes.
People here keep on harping about stats, but fail to see the intangibles AI brought. He instilled fear in all the teams he was facing, despite having a crappy supporting cast most of the time.
Yes, Wade is an HOF lock, but those who are saying "he is waaaaayyy better than AI" are retarded. It's a very close call, and you can make arguments for both players.
Can't we just agree that they are both great?
Iverson was pretty impressive for his size, so I would say maybe AI was the better pound for pound basketball player.
But Dwyane Wade is bigger, is more explosive, attacks the rim better, and is overall more efficient. Dwyane Wade can almost play a lot bigger than his size, like what he did to Kevin Garnett. Something Iverson can't do.
Efficiency wise, Wade trumps Iverson. Niether are particularly Ray Allen like shooters. But Wade is shooting nearly 50% for most of his seasons, while Iverson is shooting just a hair above 40%. The guy shooting 50% from the field is obviously better than the guy shooting 40%, unless he does something else better, for example Jason Kidd. But I wouldn't necessarily call Iverson that much better of a passer than Wade. Iverson is not a pure point.
I enjoyed watching both players, as amazing as Iverson was, I'm giving D-Wade a slight edge. Because he's bigger, more efficient overall, and is more versatile and is able to do more things. Sorry AI.:rolleyes:
[QUOTE=moe94]The only aspect Iverson even has a case for is scoring and even there he's clearly outclassed. Wade gives you 30 on close to 50% shooting while Iverson gives you 30 on 42% on a good day. How is Iverson a better scorer? I would love to see an explanation.[/QUOTE]
iverson had 5seasons over 30ppg wade hade one and hasn't been close to 30 since
[IMG]http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j414/44448888/2r6lc8w.png[/IMG]
AI was a better scorer than Wade, but Wade is more under control and durable...
Wade is the better player
Wade is a bigger stronger more controlled version of what Iverson was
[QUOTE=markymark]People here keep on harping about stats, but fail to see the intangibles AI brought. He instilled fear in all the teams he was facing, despite having a crappy supporting cast most of the time.
Yes, Wade is an HOF lock, but those who are saying "he is waaaaayyy better than AI" are retarded. It's a very close call, and you can make arguments for both players.
Can't we just agree that they are both great?[/QUOTE]
Ok. So the argument for Iverson is his "intangibles" ("Practice?"). Wade meanwhile trumps him in almost every statistical category (and EVERY advanced statistical category) known to man. Yeah, that evens out.
I can't believe I'm going to use this smilie, which I absolutely despise, but I don't know what more can be said than...:facepalm
Two of my favorite players. I always felt Wade was a bigger version of Iverson so to speak. If I had to rank top SGs of all time? Iverson would be ahead of Wade for now...for now.
[QUOTE=jrong]Ok. So the argument for Iverson is his "intangibles" ("Practice?"). [B]Wade meanwhile trumps him in almost every statistical category[/B] (and EVERY advanced statistical category) known to man. Yeah, that evens out.
I can't believe I'm going to use this smilie, which I absolutely despise, but I don't know what more can be said than...:facepalm[/QUOTE]
points ai
assists ai
steals ai
rebounds wade
blocks wade
Lmao what does Vince have to do with this?
Iverson is really one of the hardest players to rank. It seems like you either think Iverson is an overrated chucker or one of the best scorers to ever play. Everyone's opinion is so different about him that it's just impossible to rank him.
They're are so many kids on this board that think AI was just a chucker though. Most people that say Iverson was no where one Wade's level never saw him play at his peak. I'm not saying he's better but to say he wasn't on Wade's level is just looking at stats and FG% but never got to see him take over games.
Think about Derrick Rose, low FG% but LEADS his team to victory. People now think that Rose is definitely on Wade's level or maybe even better. FG% doesn't tell the whole story about how good a player is.
[QUOTE=colorz]Iverson is really one of the hardest players to rank. It seems like you either think Iverson is an overrated chucker or one of the best scorers to ever play. Everyone's opinion is so different about him that it's just impossible to rank him.
They're are so many kids on this board that think AI was just a chucker though. Most people that say Iverson was no where one Wade's level never saw him play at his peak. I'm not saying he's better but to say he wasn't on Wade's level is just looking at stats and FG% but never got to see him take over games.
Think about Derrick Rose, low FG% but LEADS his team to victory. People now think that Rose is definitely on Wade's level or maybe even better. FG% doesn't tell the whole story about how good a player is.[/QUOTE]
Derrick Rose shot nearly 45%... thats low?
Iverson shot 42% in his MVP season and never got to the ECFs ever in his career after that.
If Iverson is better than Wade then he's better than LeBron james and Kobe. :rolleyes:
AI accomplished absolutely nothing unless he had a stacked defensive team and he was the only scoring option. He needed the ball in his hands at all times.
Wade on the other hand, has had success in multiple situations. He won a title with 34 year old Shaq on the team, and a subpar performance from him in the Finals. He won 47 games last year with a team that had only 2 other players averaging double digit points and no one playing 30 MPG. Wade also led Miami to a 43-39 record and had the 2nd most 1st places votes for MVP on a team where the only scoring options that stayed on the team the entire year were rookie Beasley, Haslem, and rookie Chalmers. Wade is also doing well with LeBron James alongside of him.
Iverson is a system player. Wade will dominate no matter who is on the team and no matter how good they are.
[QUOTE=jrong]Ok. So the argument for Iverson is his "intangibles" ("Practice?"). Wade meanwhile trumps him in almost every statistical category (and EVERY advanced statistical category) known to man. Yeah, that evens out.
I can't believe I'm going to use this smilie, which I absolutely despise, but I don't know what more can be said than...:facepalm[/QUOTE]
put prime AI in place of Wade now, and the Heat would be in the exact same situation. It's CLOSE.
[QUOTE=Bigsmoke]Derrick Rose shot nearly 45%... thats low?
Iverson shot 42% in his MVP season and never got to the ECFs ever in his career after that.
If Iverson is better than Wade then he's better than LeBron james and Kobe. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
He's shooting 41% in the playoffs
Iverson = better scorer, and that's ALL he had.
Wade = better BASKETBALL PLAYER.
[QUOTE=colorz]He's shooting 41% in the playoffs[/QUOTE]
Haha! 50% against Jamaal Crawford.
On the other hand, AI was putting up 30, 40 on the likes of:
VC, Antonio Davis, Dale Davis, Jerome Williams, Alvin Williams, Childs, Oakley
Ray Allen, Big Dog, Casell, Ervin Johnson, Brandon
Oh, and he also dropped 48 on Kobe, Shaq, Fox, Fish, Horry.
[QUOTE=markymark]put prime AI in place of Wade now, and the Heat would be in the exact same situation. It's CLOSE.[/QUOTE]
thats weaker defense at the 2 guard, less rebounding, more turnovers, less efficient scorer next to Lebron, losing their best shot blocker, ect.
[QUOTE=colorz]He's shooting 41% in the playoffs[/QUOTE]
:oldlol:
:applause:
[I]"But but but we're in the ECF tho."[/I]
wade, hes more all around.
[QUOTE=GOBB]Two of my favorite players. I always felt Wade was a bigger version of Iverson so to speak. If I had to rank top SGs of all time? Iverson would be ahead of Wade for now...for now.[/QUOTE]
What he said ..
[QUOTE=colorz]Iverson is really one of the hardest players to rank. It seems like you either think Iverson is an overrated chucker or one of the best scorers to ever play. Everyone's opinion is so different about him that it's just impossible to rank him.
They're are so many kids on this board that think AI was just a chucker though. Most people that say Iverson was no where one Wade's level never saw him play at his peak. I'm not saying he's better but to say he wasn't on Wade's level is just looking at stats and FG% but never got to see him take over games.
Think about Derrick Rose, low FG% but LEADS his team to victory. [B]People now think that Rose is definitely on Wade's level or maybe even better.[/B] FG% doesn't tell the whole story about how good a player is.[/QUOTE]
And they are dead wrong about that. No FG% doesn't tell the whole story about a player-- there's also other aspects of efficiency to consider plus defense, rebounding etc-- all areas in which Wade blows Iverson and Rose out of the water.
And, in case it somehow has somehow escaped you-- Wade has shown the ability to take over games every bit as well or better as Iverson on offense-- better actually, when you consider Wade can also take over as a playmaker--and Rose has not yet shown the ability to take over on the same plane as Wade or Iverson as a scorer.
And unlike Iverson or Rose, Wade can take over games on both ends of the court.
[QUOTE=D.J.]
Iverson is a system player. Wade will dominate no matter who is on the team and no matter how good they are.[/QUOTE]
This just isn't true ...
With Carmelo Anthony
2006 - 2007 (50 games)
25 ppg, 7 apg, 3 rpg, FG 45%
2007 - 2008 (82 games)
26 ppg, 7 apg, 3 rpg, FG 46%
That's a system player?
And to be fair ... when he was winning scoring titles left and right as a 5'11 SG in the NBA ... he was still playing in the tough, physical defensive era.
That all changed in 2005 / 2006 -ish ... but you get the point.
And that's no knock on my boy Wade, cause he's right there with him as it stands right now. But the defense Wade faces aren't near as physical as they were pre 2005.
Iverson mashed on those defenses. See how his FG% was alot more comprable to Rose, Kobe, Carter, McGrady, Wade in 2006, 2007, and 2008 AT THE TWIGHLIGHT of his career? It's a) because of the rule changes and b) because he finally was playing with a capable scorer beside him for once.
Lets us also not forget that in 2003 and 2004, on Team USA ... surrounded by top tier talent, and even though the USA committee was reluctant to put him on the team because the baggage he carried and what he represented with his looks ... Iverson meshed with all-stars in a competitive setting ... AND WAS THE BEST PLAYER ON THE USA TEAM BOTH YEARS.
Yes, he was the best and most consistent player on the 2004 Olympic Team ... which had everyone's favorite overrated PF, Tim Duncan ... who absolutely blew in the Olympics.
[QUOTE=jrong]And unlike Iverson or Rose, [B]Wade can take over games on both ends of the court[/B].[/QUOTE]
When has he? Sometimes I need my memories refreshed.
[QUOTE=jrong]And they are dead wrong about that. No FG% doesn't tell the whole story about a player-- there's also other aspects of efficiency to consider plus defense, rebounding etc-- all areas in which Wade blows Iverson and Rose out of the water.
And, in case it somehow has somehow escaped you-- Wade has shown the ability to take over games every bit as well or better as Iverson on offense-- better actually, when you consider Wade can also take over as a playmaker--and Rose has not yet shown the ability to take over on the same plane as Wade or Iverson as a scorer.
And unlike Iverson or Rose, Wade can take over games on both ends of the court.[/QUOTE]
Wade is superior defensively, but Iverson wasn't as bad as most people say. It's not like guys would pour 20+ on him every night. He was average in his prime. I'm not saying Iverson is a good defender, but he's not atrocious. You also can't expect a 6 foot shooting guard to grab a lot of rebounds.
You also have to look at the defense that was played back in Iverson's prime. You can't even touch a guy going to the basket without getting a foul called. He averaged 30+ points in an era where defense was much tougher.
[QUOTE=donald_trump]wade is better at getting to the ring.[/QUOTE]
Arguable, but I would definitely side with AI, his first steps were just otherwordly, and there wasn't a defender he couldn't easily blow by in his prime.
[QUOTE]better from midrange.[/QUOTE]
Completely false, this makes me think you've never watched IVerson.
[QUOTE]equal from 3[/QUOTE]
Um, no.
[QUOTE]better in the post.[/QUOTE]
Agreed.
[QUOTE]and better off the catch and shoot.[/QUOTE]
Once again, no. Iverson is better at shooting than Wade, anybody who isn't biased will tell you that
[/QUOTE]what makes iverson the better scorer? id love to hear the reasons for the people claiming so.[/QUOTE]
Better shooter from everywhere, better at penetrating the lane, makes impossible shots looks easy, can take over games when it matters most, and can do all of these things with less help from his teamates.
AI"s playoff numbers say it all, 30 ppg, 2nd all time behind who? You guessed it, so the people who say it's crazy to say AI's one of the best scorers since Jordan, let me tell you this: AI is easily on e of the best scorers since Jordan. Now, Wade is easily a better defender, and has a better attitude, but if you're asking me who I would take as a player, I would have to give the edge to AI.