If Kyrie is healthy, he should go #1.
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If Kyrie is healthy, he should go #1.
As long as his foot checks out, this pick is already in the bank for Irving. The real discussion for the Cavs is with their No. 4 pick. There are a lot of directions that they can go.
If the Cavs didn't have another Top 5 pick, maybe they think a little harder about who they take No. 1. But, with the No. 4 pick to go along with it, you take the consensus best player and address needs with the second pick.
It is going to be Irving and someone... The question is, who is that someone? Could the Cavs even attempt to move up to get both Irving and Williams? It isn't completely out of the realm of possibility.
You can't go wrong with a point guard though. Time has told that PG's taken high in the draft usually turn out pretty good even Mike Conley started to blossom this season. Cavs most likely are goin to take Williams tho, it just makes the most sense.
Derrick Williams moves like a robot when he tries to create his own shot.
[QUOTE=rosonviyavong]Cavs most likely are goin to take Williams tho, it just makes the most sense.[/QUOTE]
The pick is going to be Irving. I'm not sure why this is difficult to understand.
[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]The pick is going to be Irving. I'm not sure why this is difficult to understand.[/QUOTE]
If they're serious about to get another PG still dumb move but if they do serious about it then they could pick Kemba Walker or Alec Burk at their # 4 pick and get Derrick Williams at the first pick and could trade Baron Davis to get some solid player.
But look at this line-up
Baron Davis/Ramon Sessions
Anthony Parker/Daniel Gibson
Derrick Williams/
J.J. Hickson/Antawn Jamison
Anderson Varejao/Enes Kanter or Jonas Valanciunas
or
Baron Davis/Kyrie Irving
Anthony Parker/Daniel Gibson
Antawn Jamison
J.J. Hickson
Anderson Varejao/Enes Kanter or Jonas Valanciunas
So tell me which one is better...I am going with Derrick Williams.
Seriously, the cavs thing is very interesting for nba draft.
[QUOTE=Meticode]I say pick Derrick Williams, have him play the three. He's the most NBA-ready out of everyone in the draft. And pick either Knight, Walker, Kanter or Burks with the fourth pick. You want people in the seats and excited? Get Williams and Walker. Team probably wouldn't be very good, but it'd be exciting to watch to say the least.
I'm personally just not sold on Iriving. Too much of a small sample and plus the foot injury bothers the hell out of me. Williams has a much larger sample and he dominated the touranament with pretty much almost 20/9 on 60% shooting.[/QUOTE]
Co-sign and I like what you said about the seats and excited....good point.
We didn't trade for Baron Davis because he was the long-term answer at the point and, I like some of Ramon Sessions' potential, but more as a spark off of the bench, not a franchise point guard. I mean, the Cavs went to Davis when the trade happened to see if he wanted his contract bought out.
He showed a lot of character by deciding to stay in Cleveland for the remainder of the season last year and he actually played well, but still... That trade was all about the draft pick, not Baron Davis.
The pick will be Irving. If the Cavs really value Willaims and think that he can be an impact player in this league, they may look to deal with Minnesota to switch spots with them, since Williams doesn't really make a lot of sense for the T-Wolves.
I have absolutely no doubt about the No. 1 pick, though. The only thing that can possibly throw a wrench into things is if his foot doesn't check out. Outside of that, there really is no debate, here.
Byron Scott has a history of getting his long-term, franchise PG in his second season as coach. He did it with Jason Kidd.... Then, he did it with Chris Paul. Now, he is going to pull the trigger on Kyrie Irving.
Irving is overrated. Williams is a stud tho :bowdown:
I'm pissed right now. 6th overall pick :mad:
[QUOTE=KingBeasley08]Irving is overrated. Williams is a stud tho :bowdown:
I'm pissed right now. 6th overall pick :mad:[/QUOTE]
Who do you think the Wiz gone take?
What do yall need?
[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]We didn't trade for Baron Davis because he was the long-term answer at the point and, I like some of Ramon Sessions' potential, but more as a spark off of the bench, not a franchise point guard. I mean, the Cavs went to Davis when the trade happened to see if he wanted his contract bought out.
He showed a lot of character by deciding to stay in Cleveland for the remainder of the season last year and he actually played well, but still... That trade was all about the draft pick, not Baron Davis.
The pick will be Irving. If the Cavs really value Willaims and think that he can be an impact player in this league, they may look to deal with Minnesota to switch spots with them, since Williams doesn't really make a lot of sense for the T-Wolves.
I have absolutely no doubt about the No. 1 pick, though. The only thing that can possibly throw a wrench into things is if his foot doesn't check out. Outside of that, there really is no debate, here.
Byron Scott has a history of getting his long-term, franchise PG in his second season as coach. He did it with Jason Kidd.... Then, he did it with Chris Paul. Now, he is going to pull the trigger on Kyrie Irving.[/QUOTE]
Once again, not foot. It is his big toe. You can amputate that thing and he can still play basketball fine.
irving is over rated, he's not off the charts athletic just athletic enough and he's not a great shooter but good enough, doesn't make the spectacular play but he is unselfish and passes to the open man, defensively doesn't stick out but not a bad defender... to me he'll be mike conley jr at best
on the other hand i think derrick williams is going to beast from the get go! he has an excellent shot already, he's a freak of a athlete and his improvement from his freshman to soph year is eye popping which means he has a great work ethic, i don't understand why people don't see him as a can't miss prospect! he's going to be a legitimate superstar, stoudemire light im predicting.
if i were the cavs they are in a great position, y not draft derrick williams #1 then kemba walker #2, i think walker can become a similar player to jason terry but with defense, i also like brandon knights potential over kyrie irvings.
don't understand what all the hoopla is about kyrie, and no he is not going to be the next cp3 no way!
[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]We didn't trade for Baron Davis because he was the long-term answer at the point and, I like some of Ramon Sessions' potential, but more as a spark off of the bench, not a franchise point guard. I mean, the Cavs went to Davis when the trade happened to see if he wanted his contract bought out.
He showed a lot of character by deciding to stay in Cleveland for the remainder of the season last year and he actually played well, but still... That trade was all about the draft pick, not Baron Davis.
The pick will be Irving. If the Cavs really value Willaims and think that he can be an impact player in this league, they may look to deal with Minnesota to switch spots with them, since Williams doesn't really make a lot of sense for the T-Wolves.
I have absolutely no doubt about the No. 1 pick, though. The only thing that can possibly throw a wrench into things is if his foot doesn't check out. Outside of that, there really is no debate, here.
Byron Scott has a history of getting his long-term, franchise PG in his second season as coach. He did it with Jason Kidd.... Then, he did it with Chris Paul. Now, he is going to pull the trigger on Kyrie Irving.[/QUOTE]
I see what you're saying but like I said if they serious about to get a PG then they should pick Derrick Williams first and on the 4th Pick...Get a PG....
Kemba Walker or Alec Burks...those two guys could be better than Kyrie Irving.....What if Kyrie Irving turns out he ain't sh!t and those 3 guys I mention doing great job.....it's better than sorry.
[QUOTE=kaiiu]Who do you think the Wiz gone take?
What do yall need?[/QUOTE]
Probably Bismack or some Euro Big. We needa ship out Blatche and can use the best player in any position except for PG or SG
I'd pick the next Darko---Kanter.
What is it going to be?
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[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]The pick is going to be Irving. I'm not sure why this is difficult to understand.[/QUOTE]
I don't either.
There are reasons why Derrick Williams isn't the consensus #1 overall pick and Kyrie Irving is.
1. Some people seem to believe Williams is an NBA SF and only a SF. He's not. In fact, the one thing that may hurt his NBA the beginning of his NBA is that he's a tweener, that it may take a few years for Williams to develop the necessary skills to legitimately define his NBA position. He's got some NBA SF skills but I'm not sure he's a good enough or fluid enough with his ball-handling to create his own shot off the bounce against other NBA SF's.
2. I do not think Kyrie Irving is the second coming of Chris Paul or even a future top 5 NBA point guard. However, there are not many weaknesses to his game. Irving is a legit 6'1" or 6'2" which is good size for an NBA PG, he can score from all three levels on the floor, and he's a good playmaker. Some Cleveland and NBA fans seem to believe that Baron Davis and Ramon Sessions are their future at the PG position. Davis is already 32 years old and you've already seen what Ramon Sessions is going to be as far as his ceiling as an NBA PG. In terms of overall status and impact, Irving may top out at what a prime Baron Davis was 5-7 years ago. And, who knows, Irving may peak as a multiple all-star top 3-5 PG for a few years.
3. Back to Derrick Williams. I do think Williams has the highest ceiling in this draft class but that's not necessarily saying a whole lot. Like I've already said, Williams is an elite level athlete with a good perimeter jumper. He's very explosive to the rim. Some of the dunks I saw him pull-off at Arizona were reminiscent of what you see Amare Stoudemire and Blake Griffin pull-off in the NBA. I'm not saying he'll be as good as either one of those players but the tools are there. He's smaller than both and, just going by the eye test, he doesn't appear to have great length to make up for his 6'7" or 6'8" frame if he is indeed an NBA PF.
In the end, though, I wouldn't call it a terrible or even a bad pick if Cleveland went with Derrick Williams. I just think Kyrie Irving is a better fit for Cleveland and they very well could get an Enes Kanter at #4. Kanter doesn't have necessarily have the ceiling of Derrick Williams but I think he does have the potential to develop into a very good 3rd option on a playoff caliber team.
Could they trade the #4 pick and the 14 million dollar trade exception to Minny and get both Kyrie and Williams?
[QUOTE=Gundress]I see what you're saying but like I said if they serious about to get a PG then they should pick Derrick Williams first and on the 4th Pick...Get a PG....
Kemba Walker or Alec Burks...those two guys could be better than Kyrie Irving.....What if Kyrie Irving turns out he ain't sh!t and those 3 guys I mention doing great job.....it's better than sorry.[/QUOTE]
Burks is not a point guard.... He is a shooting guard. Kemba Walker, I project as an undersized combo guard, not a natural point.
The second best PG in this draft, to me, is Brandon Knight...
Give me Irving.
[QUOTE=Gundress]I see what you're saying but like I said if they serious about to get a PG then they should pick Derrick Williams first and on the 4th Pick...Get a PG....
Kemba Walker or [B]Alec Burks[/QUOTE]
Alec Burks isn't a point guard, the other two PG's of the draft that could be sitting there at #4 and wouldn't be an awful pick at that spot are Brandon Knight and Kemba Walker.
[QUOTE=Gundress]
...those two guys could be better than Kyrie Irving.....What if Kyrie Irving turns out he ain't sh!t and those 3 guys I mention doing great job.....it's better than sorry.[/QUOTE]
This argument is so empty because you're doing nothing but using speculation to make your point seem stronger.
"Those two guys could be better than Kyrie Irving"
"What if Kyrie Irving turns out he ain't sh!t and thsoe 3 guys I mention doing a great job"
Yeah, well, what if Kyrie Irving ends up being really good and every single guy you mentioned turns out to be "sh!t"?
See how easy it is to make such a stupid argument?
LMFAO if Brandon Knight or Kemba Walker get drafted 4th :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :applause: :roll:
[QUOTE=8BeastlyXOIAD]LMFAO if Brandon Knight or Kemba Walker get drafted 4th :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :applause: :roll:[/QUOTE]
You do realize Brandon Knight is a top 5 pick in a lot of mocks and there's a decent chance the Jazz take him at #3, don't you?
[QUOTE=KG215]You do realize there's a VERY good chance Brandon Knight goes 3rd to the Jazz, don't you?[/QUOTE]
Goes to show you how bad this draft is:violin: :violin:
[QUOTE=KG215]You do realize there's a VERY good chance Brandon Knight goes 3rd to the Jazz, don't you?[/QUOTE]
Not white. Utah is gonna trade down to get Jimmer.
[QUOTE=noob cake]Not white. Utah is gonna trade down to get Jimmer.[/QUOTE]
Why? They've already got the #12 and #3 pick. They don't need to trade down to get Jimmer. If they want him then he'll probably be there at #12.
I think Alec Burks is a very good fit for them at SG if he's there at #12. At #3 they can either go with Brandon Knight or, shop Millsap or Jefferson, and take Kanter.
[QUOTE=KG215]I don't either.
There are reasons why Derrick Williams isn't the consensus #1 overall pick and Kyrie Irving is.
1. Some people seem to believe Williams is an NBA SF and only a SF. He's not. In fact, the one thing that may hurt his NBA is that he's such a tweener, that it may time a few years for Williams to develop the necessary skills to legitimately define his NBA position. He's got some NBA SF skills but I'm not sure he's a good enough or fluid enough with his ball-handling to create his own shot off the bounce against other NBA SF's.
2. I do not think Kyrie Irving is the second coming of Chris Paul or even a future top 5 NBA point guard. However, there are not many weaknesses to his game. Irving is a legit 6'1" or 6'2" which is good size for an NBA PG, he can score from all three levels on the floor, and he's a good playmaker. Some Cleveland and NBA fans seem to believe that Baron Davis and Ramon Sessions are their future at the PG position. Davis is already 32 years old and you've already seen what Ramon Sessions is going to be as far as his ceiling as an NBA PG. In terms of overall status and impact, Irving may top out at what a prime Baron Davis was 5-7 years ago. And, who knows, Irving may peak as a multiple all-star top 3-5 PG for a few years.
3. Back to Derrick Williams. I do think Williams has the highest ceiling in this draft class but that's not necessarily saying a whole lot. Like I've already said, Williams is an elite level athlete with a good perimeter jumper. He's very explosive to the rim. Some of the dunks I saw him pull-off at Arizona were reminiscent of what you see Amare Stoudemire and Blake Griffin pull-off in the NBA. I'm not saying he'll be as good as either one of those players but the tools are there. He's smaller than both and, just going by the eye-ball test, he doesn't appear to have great length to make up for his 6'7" or 6'8" frame if he is indeed an NBA PF.
In the end, though, I wouldn't call it a terrible or even a bad pick if Cleveland went with Derrick Williams. I just think Kyrie Irving is a better fit for Cleveland and they very well could get an Enes Kanter at #4. Kanter doesn't have necessarily have the ceiling of Derrick Williams but I think he does have the potential to develop into a very good 3rd option on a playoff caliber team.[/QUOTE]
Agreed on all points.
I'm actually a big fan of Williams' game, but I think he has much more impact at PF than he does SF. He has a huge wingspan and can really gobble up rebounds when he is around the rim. I know that he is only 6-foot-8 and that people are obsessed with measurables, but Williams' current game is best suited for the 4.
All of that said, our best asset is a power forward (JJ Hickson). If there is one spot on the roster that we really don't need to address, it is PF. Hickson is young and he showed himself to be a solid NBA player in the second half of last season with potential to be a cornerstone player.
So, if Williams was drafted by the Cavs, he would have to pretty much revamp his game to fit into the SF position. Now, he seems like a great athlete and he has a nice shot, so maybe he does eventually develop the handle and control to become a guy who can create from the perimeter, but the question then becomes...
If the two best players in this draft seem to be Williams and Irving, why would the Cavs take the guy who is currently at his best at the position JJ Hickson plays and it may take a few years for him to adjust to a position he has never played over the other top guy, who actually plays a position that we need?
Throw on top of all that... Byron Scott is our head coach. He has proven, over the years, that his teams perform best when he is able to acquire a young point guard prospect who can be taught his system right off of the bat. Irving gives the opportunity to Scott to have 'his guy' running the show and to implement his offense on a young team.
Irving just makes sense. Like I said, if we want Williams in addition to Irving, we can probably get him without giving up a ton being that we have the No. 4 pick and Minnesota doesn't have a place for Williams.
Doing something like that makes more sense to me than taking Williams No. 1.
Cavs need a big for the future. In the top 5, you draft a big... big... big.
Next year, get a wing.
[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]Agreed on all points.
I'm actually a big fan of Williams' game, but I think he has much more impact at PF than he does SF. He has a huge wingspan and can really gobble up rebounds when he is around the rim. I know that he is only 6-foot-8 and that people are obsessed with measurables, but Williams' current game is best suited for the 4.
All of that said, our best asset is a power forward (JJ Hickson). If there is one spot on the roster that we really don't need to address, it is PF. Hickson is young and he showed himself to be a solid NBA player in the second half of last season with potential to be a cornerstone player.
So, if Williams was drafted by the Cavs, he would have to pretty much revamp his game to fit into the SF position. Now, he seems like a great athlete and he has a nice shot, so maybe he does eventually develop the handle and control to become a guy who can create from the perimeter, but the question then becomes...
If the two best players in this draft seem to be Williams and Irving, why would the Cavs take the guy who is currently at his best at the position JJ Hickson plays and it may take a few years for him to adjust to a position he has never played over the other top guy, who actually plays a position that we need?
Throw on top of all that... Byron Scott is our head coach. He has proven, over the years, that his teams perform best when he is able to acquire a young point guard prospect who can be taught his system right off of the bat. Irving gives the opportunity to Scott to have 'his guy' running the show and to implement his offense on a young team.
Irving just makes sense. Like I said, if we want Williams in addition to Irving, we can probably get him without giving up a ton being that we have the No. 4 pick and Minnesota doesn't have a place for Williams.
Doing something like that makes more sense to me than taking Williams No. 1.[/QUOTE]
All of that is basically my exact thinking as well, but we seem to be in the minority for some reason.
Neither is special, so who cares ...
Feel bad for Cleveland
They got another #1 pick and a #4 pick in the weakest draft since 2001.
[QUOTE=PleezeBelieve]Cavs need a big for the future. In the top 5, you draft a big... big... big.
Next year, get a wing.[/QUOTE]
Your boy Valanciunas may not even be able to come to the NBA for several years and, besides, if you're going to take a PF or C in the top 5 of the draft there are two better options: Derrick Williams and Enes Kanter.
[QUOTE=KG215]All of that is basically my exact thinking as well, but we seem to be in the minority for some reason.[/QUOTE]
I don't think we are in the minority. I've been listening to Cleveland sports radio all day and everyone is pretty much assuming that it is a foregone conclusion... Irving is the pick. Most of the discussion has been about the No. 4 pick.
They even had Chris Grant (Cavs GM) on and, although he didn't tip his hat one way or the other, if you read between the lines, you can see where they are going.
We can discuss why Irving should be the pick or, for those that think Williams would be a better fit, they can chime in with their opinions.
But, at the end of the day, rest assured... Irving is the pick.
[QUOTE=Samurai Swoosh]Neither is special, so who cares ...
Feel bad for Cleveland
They got another #1 pick and a #4 pick in the weakest draft since 2001.[/QUOTE]
I don't even need someone 'special,' as you term it. I want to solidify the PG position, which Irving will do. The draft is a crap-shoot, anyway. Once in a while, a guy like LeBron or Rose will come along and you will be pretty sure that they are going to be superstars, but you can't rely on that to re-shape your franchise.
You do it through addressing each position with young talent. Irving is young and talented... Plus, I really like the interviews that I've seen with him. He isn't a braggart and he seems to have a good head on his shoulders.
I could see him and Byron Scott forming a pretty nice player/coach relationship in helping the Cavs get back to relevancy.
Outside of that, this 'weak' draft stuff is simple speculation. We just watched a guy last night turn in one of the great offensive performances in playoff history and he was a member of what was considered a 'weak' draft after the first four picks (1998). There was no hype surrounding him and some people questioned the pick at No. 9...
None of us know exactly how good any of these guys are going to be.
I"ll give you another example... When the Cavs turned in their best draft in franchise history (no, it wasn't 2003), that was also considered an extremely weak draft that teams were trying to trade out of (1986). As a result of the idea that the draft was 'weak,' we were able to acquire extra picks...
In that single draft, we got Brad Daugherty, Ron Harper, and Mark Price. The franchise was literally rebuilt in that one 'weak' draft.
Any way you look at it, last night was a good night to be a Cavs' fan.... And there will be all-star caliber players in this draft, just like there are in every draft. It is our front office's job to find those guys and make the right picks.
[QUOTE=KG215]Your boy Valanciunas may not even be able to come to the NBA for several years and, besides, if you're going to take a PF or C in the top 5 of the draft there are two better options: Derrick Williams and Enes Kanter.[/QUOTE]
Agreed.
If we don't get Irving and Williams, I will be happy with Irving and Kanter.
Kyrie Irving/Baron Davis/Ramon Sessions
Anthony Parker(?)/Manny Harris/Alonzo Gee
Antawn Jamison/Christian Eyenga
JJ Hickson/Samardo Samuels (a lot of people are forgetting how good Samuels was last year)
Anderson Varejao/Enes Kanter/Semih Erden
That is not a bad roster... And it is filled with young talent. No one is saying that this is going to be an immediate championship contender, but you don't rebuild in one year... This is a process and I like the pieces that a Irving/Kanter combo would give us on the roster.
[QUOTE=KG215]Your boy Valanciunas may not even be able to come to the NBA for several years and, [B]besides, if you're going to take a PF or C in the top 5 of the draft there are two better options: Derrick Williams and Enes Kanter[/B].[/QUOTE]
Kanter is a 6-9ish Center who can't jump and has limited agility.
Do you people understand what wins in this league??? Not undersized power forwards and centers. You need length and mobility on the front line.
[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]Agreed.
If we don't get Irving and Williams, I will be happy with Irving and Kanter.[/QUOTE]
Dude you're not winning championships with a 6'10 Center who plays below the rim.
Sh*t is so frustrating. Many of you have no idea what you're talking about.
Not a champion BUT it would make them a respectable team which they were not last year.
[QUOTE=PleezeBelieve]Dude you're not winning championships with a 6'10 Center who plays below the rim.
Sh*t is so frustrating. Many of you have no idea what you're talking about.[/QUOTE]
I've watched your boy... Not that impressed. Kanter dominated the Nike Hoop Summit. He is tough to handle below the rim AND he has a nice touch from the outside.
F#ck all this sh!t about measurables. I'm sick of hearing about how tall a guy is and using that as the only basis for analysis.
Charles Barkley was listed at 6-foot-5, but I've stood next to him and he is probably closer to 6-foot-4.
He is one of the greatest power forwards to ever play the game. If he were coming out of Alabama this year, people would be mocking the idea of him playing PF in the NBA simply because of his height.
I judge what I see and Kanter looks, to me, like the best Euro player in this class. Whether he is 6-foot-10 or 7-foot or 6-foot-8... The guy can play.
why do people try to make it seem like this draft is make or break for the team?:oldlol:
They hopefully get 2 solid players and they move on to the next
[QUOTE=PleezeBelieve]Kanter is a 6-9ish Center who can't jump and has limited agility.
Do you people understand what wins in this league??? Not undersized power forwards and centers. You need length and mobility on the front line.[/QUOTE]
Lastly, how many 7-footers do the Bulls have? One... Omar Asik.
Their starting center is listed as a whooping inch taller than Kanter. You are telling me that this inch makes you totally dismiss him as a center on a good team?
[QUOTE=kaiiu]why do people try to make it seem like this draft is make or break for the team?:oldlol:
They hopefully get 2 solid players and they move on to the next[/QUOTE]
That's what I'm trying to explain to people. OKC didn't turn around their franchise in one year.
It has been less than a year since James announced he was leaving town. It will be a few years before we fully recover from losing the guy that we built the entire franchise around.
There is no reason to 'feel sorry' for the Cavs or their fans.... Last night was a good night... Check that, a great night.
If we get two solid starters, we will be on our way.