Knicks To Select Dontas Montiejunas

[QUOTE=NewYorkNoPicks]here ill repost what i said on the 2nd page:

"Trading Anthony Randolph was almost as big a mistake as trading all those picks for Eddy Curry.

It was D'Antoni's call.

Walsh said when he picked 6th in 2008 it was between Randolph and Gallinari, and when he got to acquire AR he was ecstatic.

[B]But D'Antoni didn't play him because he couldn't shoot 3's.[/B]

I hope no other team (except maybe the Heat ) get infected with the D'Antoni cancer when we eventually fire him. The guy is as stubborn as they come, can only coach one way, and can't judge talent for sh!t. He's almost as destructive as Larry Brown.."[/QUOTE]
:lol

D'antoni didn't play him because he couldn't do [i]anything[/i]. He looked like a retarded five year old when he was in a Knicks uniform. Played himself completely out of the rotation. Good riddance to that idiot.

[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]But, his game is not about scoring... Actually, it has absolutely nothing to do with scoring. And, good luck finding a 7-footer with a huge wingspan and is athletic/big enough to defend 4s/5s and give your team an incredible amount of second-chance points... as well as running the floor with guards.

You know, there are some players that offer assets other than simply putting the ball in the basket. I know it is a crazy concept, but those kind of players do actually exist.

But, don't worry... The Knicks don't have anything outside of their big two that I would even consider giving up for a tandem of Varejao/Sessions.[/QUOTE]


lmaoooo way to overrate your players. Seeing things with rose colored glasses ever since you got the 1st pick I see.

you can find an Anderson Varejao with a 2nd round pick. In fact I'd rather have Rony Turiaf than Varejao anyway.

Chill out Clevlander with your Napoleon complex

[QUOTE=NewYorkNoPicks]lmaoooo way to overrate your players. Seeing things with rose colored glasses ever since you got the 1st pick I see.

you can find an Anderson Varejao with a 2nd round pick. In fact I'd rather have Rony Turiaf than Varejao anyway.

Chill out Clevlander with your Napoleon complex[/QUOTE]
Yep... And you keep rating players strictly based on how many points they score. :oldlol:


Dumbass.

The fact that you would even bring up scoring when discussing Varejao's strengths shows your lack of bball knowledge.

[QUOTE=Scoooter]:lol

D'antoni didn't play him because he couldn't do [i]anything[/i]. He looked like a retarded five year old when he was in a Knicks uniform. Played himself completely out of the rotation. Good riddance to that idiot.[/QUOTE]

If you've ever played or coached basketball you'd know that certain players lose confidence easily, and once it's lost they play tentatively. they second guess their decisions, and play scared, with the fear of being benched at the sign of any mistake.

Also heres another flaw in a lot of Knick fans logic regarding AR:

-If the guy is 21 years old....and just a few months prior he was probably the most coveted young prospect in the league BASED ON HIS PLAY ON THE COURT NOT JUST *possible potential*....you really think he lost it all in 5 months? He's 21 not 39....

-Rod Thorn, legendary GM, praised Donnie Walsh when he acquired him noting that he personally tried to acquire AR for over 2 years to no avail.

Varejao's not a bad player. I don't think I'd want him starting next to Amar'e, but if he's your back up center, you're probably in good shape. He killed the Knicks this year. :lol

[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]Yep... And you keep rating players strictly based on how many points they score. :oldlol:


Dumbass.

The fact that you would even bring up scoring when discussing Varejao's strengths shows your lack of bball knowledge.[/QUOTE]

My point was he looked BETTER with LeBron there.

We have an intangible guy on our team too...2x rookie of the month Landry Fields...maybe you've heard of him.

Intangibles are valuable but not at the cost of losing out on Chris Paul. And if you were a GM who chose Varejao over Paul....you'd get fired in an instant.

Be objective, not subjective and biased.

No doubt Varejao has valuable attributes, I just wouldn't pay him that much when its possible to get a cheaper alternative who can fill the 4/5 hustle guy.
I dont wanna pay a 33 year old 9m for hustle in 2014, especially given injury history.

[QUOTE]It'd be interesting, we could put Amare at the 5 for stretches and throw Dontas in at the 4 to draw out the opposing teams power foward.
[/QUOTE]
That's great strategy because we have so many players that can attack the rim
Wait a second...
Billups-slow chucker
Fields-can't drive
Melo-he can attack the basket but it isn't his main weapon
Motiejunas- outside
Amare-became a shooter.

Let's throw their whole team out so we can shoot even more contested threes :lol

God,just give us a new coach and a solid center and we will be fine.
I'm not asking for Dwight,I just want a regular center.
You know,guy who can defend and rebound and not some weak ass who will get pushed around and be a liability on defense and rebounding.

[QUOTE=G-train]No doubt Varejao has valuable attributes, I just wouldn't pay him that much when its possible to get a cheaper alternative who can fill the 4/5 hustle guy.
I dont wanna pay a 33 year old 9m for hustle in 2014, especially given injury history.[/QUOTE]

exactlyyyyyy

[QUOTE=NewYorkNoPicks]My point was he looked BETTER with LeBron there.

We have an intangible guy on our team too...2x rookie of the month Landry Fields...maybe you've heard of him.

Intangibles are valuable but not at the cost of losing out on Chris Paul. And if you were a GM who chose Varejao over Paul....you'd get fired in an instant.

Be objective, not subjective and biased.[/QUOTE]
Listen, I am the one being objective... You are the one being biased.

Go tell any GM or serious basketball fan about how Rony Turiaf is better than Anderson Varejao and watch them laugh in your face.

And, having a Landry Fields is nice, but he is a perimeter player, while Varejao is a big...

Is Fields going to be giving you hard-nosed defense, rebounding and second chance opportunities against both big and athletic frontcourts?

I'm not saying Anderson Varejao is the second-coming, but he is a good player with a combination of size, athleticism and versatility that is difficult to find in this league. He would be a very nice piece for a contending team.

He also has a nice contract. There is really nothing not to like about what Varejao offers.

[QUOTE=NewYorkNoPicks][B]If you've ever played or coached basketball you'd know that certain players lose confidence easily, and once it's lost they play tentatively. they second guess their decisions, and play scared, with the fear of being benched at the sign of any mistake.[/B][/quote]
Yeah, those kinds of guys usually don't do well in the Garden. At least he gets to tear it up in Minnesota for a bit, fellin' good and accomplishing nothing. No pressure. Nice life.

[quote]Also heres another flaw in a lot of Knick fans logic regarding AR:

-If the guy is 21 years old....and just a few months prior he was probably the most coveted young prospect in the league BASED ON HIS PLAY ON THE COURT NOT JUST *possible potential*....you really think he lost it all in 5 months? He's 21 not 39....

-Rod Thorn, legendary GM, praised Donnie Walsh when he acquired him noting that he personally tried to acquire AR for over 2 years to no avail.[/QUOTE]
I was excited when we got him too. But then I saw him play, and this :rockon: turned to this :wtf: and then to this :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm .

He actually looked like he was coming around a bit towards the All-Star break, and that was cool, but they needed to trade him to make the Melo deal happen, didn't they?

At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter though. If the Knicks don't win a championship in the next five seasons - and let's face it, that's probably a good bet - it won't be because they traded away that idiot.

[QUOTE=Clutch]That's great strategy because we have so many players that can attack the rim
Wait a second...
Billups-slow chucker
Fields-can't drive
Melo-he can attack the basket but it isn't his main weapon
Motiejunas- outside
Amare-became a shooter.

Let's throw their whole team out so we can shoot even more contested threes :lol[/QUOTE]

Yeah I thought about our roster after I said that. We definitely do need a slasher...haven't had one for a while.

Fields can do it. He's extremely underutilized....really great ball handler for his position. I don't know what his problem was toward the end of the season, but we need to run more plays for him rather than having him stand around like Mike did with Gallinari.

[QUOTE=Scoooter]Yeah, those kinds of guys usually don't do well in the Garden. At least he gets to tear it up in Minnesota for a bit, fellin' good and accomplishing nothing. No pressure. Nice life.


I was excited when we got him too. But then I saw him play, and this :rockon: turned to this :wtf: and then to this :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm .

He actually looked like he was coming around a bit towards the All-Star break, and that was cool, but they needed to trade him to make the Melo deal happen, didn't they?

At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter though. If the Knicks don't win a championship in the next five seasons - and let's face it, that's probably a good bet - it won't be because they traded away that idiot.[/QUOTE]


Well I'll tell you one thing...we could've use him against the Celtics. His length, athleticism, and shot blocking ability would've made Pierce a mortal.

[QUOTE=G-train]No doubt Varejao has valuable attributes, I just wouldn't pay him that much when its possible to get a cheaper alternative who can fill the 4/5 hustle guy.
I dont wanna pay a 33 year old 9m for hustle in 2014, especially given injury history.[/QUOTE]
First of all, he is an expirer in 2014 with a TEAM OPTION for 2015. If Varejao is no longer valuable as an asset in that 2014 season, I'm sure there are a lot of teams that would like to take on his contract and simply use it as an expirer.

Secondly, it is his defensive capabilities and versatility that separates him from other 'hustle guys.' He is a very good defender and, those kind of athletic bigs who can play defense as well as get out and run the floor are at a premium in today's NBA.

Lastly, he only has been in the league for six years. As important as age (or possibly more important) is how much mileage are on your legs, joints, knees, etc. He doesn't have a ton of mileage for his age.

[QUOTE=NewYorkNoPicks]Well I'll tell you one thing...we could've use him against the Celtics. His length, athleticism, and shot blocking ability would've made Pierce a mortal.[/QUOTE]
We could have used a lot of things against the Celtics.

Knicks should try to get Fesenko from the Jazz. He is a FA.
Plonk his next to amare to protect the basket.

[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]Listen, I am the one being objective... You are the one being biased.

Go tell any GM or serious basketball fan about how Rony Turiaf is better than Anderson Varejao and watch them laugh in your face.

And, having a Landry Fields is nice, but he is a perimeter player, while Varejao is a big...

Is Fields going to be giving you hard-nosed defense, rebounding and second chance opportunities against both big and athletic frontcourts?

I'm not saying Anderson Varejao is the second-coming, but he is a good player with a combination of size, athleticism and versatility that is difficult to find in this league. He would be a very nice piece for a contending team.

He also has a nice contract. There is really nothing not to like about what Varejao offers.[/QUOTE]

Ok but acquiring Varejao means NO CAP SPACE IN 2012!!!!

So it's either Varejao or a shot at Paul, Deron, and Dwight Howard....and you're advocating trading for Sideshow Bob.

That makes no sense

[quote=RedBlackAttack]First of all, he is an expirer in 2014 with a TEAM OPTION for 2015. If Varejao is no longer valuable as an asset in that 2014 season, I'm sure there are a lot of teams that would like to take on his contract and simply use it as an expirer.

Secondly, it is his defensive capabilities and versatility that separates him from other 'hustle guys.' He is a very good defender and, those kind of athletic bigs who can play defense as well as get out and run the floor are at a premium in today's NBA.[/quote]

As I said he has valuable attributes. But he has a bad contract. If you want to argue that its a good contract... i dunno what to say. Meanwhile you can get a 7 foot guy to fill a rebounder/defensive role for 3-5m per season, someone who is younger even.
Sure he may not be an elite defensive presence as Andy V is, but he will be enough to fill a role and at a good price.

[QUOTE=NewYorkNoPicks]Ok but acquiring Varejao means NO CAP SPACE IN 2012!!!!

So it's either Varejao or a shot at Paul, Deron, and Dwight Howard....and you're advocating trading for Sideshow Bob.

That makes no sense[/QUOTE]
That's all you had to say.... And, I don't disagree with you.

My two points, though, were:

A. Even if the Knicks did want Varejao, what would they have to offer. Let's speak hypothetically, now. I realize that you don't want the trade, but for the team to even entertain the idea, you would need to have pieces that the Cavs would want. It isn't like he is a free agent.

and

B. Comparing Varejao to a Rony Turiaf is ridiculous. You don't have to want him on your team to rate him correctly.

[quote=RedBlackAttack]
Lastly, he only has been in the league for six years. As important as age (or possibly more important) is how much mileage are on your legs, joints, knees, etc. He doesn't have a ton of mileage for his age.[/quote]

Well I still wouldn't trade for that long term deal until I see how he returns from his ruptured right peroneal longus tendon.

[QUOTE=G-train]As I said he has valuable attributes. But he has a bad contract. If you want to argue that its a good contract... i dunno what to say. Meanwhile you can get a 7 foot guy to fill a rebounder/defensive role for 3-5m per season, someone who is younger even.
Sure he may not be an elite defensive presence as Andy V is, but he will be enough to fill a role and at a good price.[/QUOTE]
I just don't think $7m for a 7-foot defensive specialist who can run the floor is a bad contract. You aren't getting that for $3-5m.

I think you are underestimating his value, especially as a Heat fan. He is literally exactly what you need... A bigger more athletic and younger version of Udonis Haslem... And you saw what his return did for your team.

He played 6 years of Euro ball too.

[QUOTE=G-train]Well I still wouldn't trade for that long term deal until I see how he returns from his ruptured right peroneal longus tendon.[/QUOTE]
We'll see how he looks this year... But, I don't think it matters a ton, because the Cavs aren't really pushing to trade him. He is one of the bright spots on the roster.

[QUOTE=G-train]He played 6 years of Euro ball too.[/QUOTE]
Euro ball is not the grind that is the NBA... We both know this.

[quote=RedBlackAttack]I just don't think $7m for a 7-foot defensive specialist who can run the floor is a bad contract. You aren't getting that for $3-5m.

I think you are underestimating his value, especially as a Heat fan. He is literally exactly what you need... A bigger more athletic version of Udonis Haslem... And you saw what his return did for your team.[/quote]

I believe this off season you can get a solid centre for that price, someone younger and without long term deal.

I dont believe he was worth 6 years 42 m. Especially not now to trade for it at the tail end.

There are some similarities to Haslem, but some key differences.
1. what heat paid for him.
2. he has better offensive skills.
3. he has stronger mental and physical toughness. > Warrior mentality.
4. udonis is more athletic for mine - stronger, faster and a higher leaper.

[quote=RedBlackAttack]Euro ball is not the grind that is the NBA... We both know this.[/quote]
I know, but I was just pointing out he has played for while.

[QUOTE=G-train]I believe this off season you can get a solid centre for that price, someone younger and without long term deal.

I dont believe he was worth 6 years 42 m. Especially not now to trade for it at the tail end.

There are some similarities to Haslem, but some key differences.
1. what heat paid for him.
2. he has better offensive skills.
3. he has stronger mental and physical toughness. > Warrior mentality.
4. udonis is more athletic for mine - stronger, faster and a higher leaper.[/QUOTE]

1. It wasn't really a 6-year deal, though, because the last year is a team option. The Cavs can decide whether or not they are going to pay him for that final year and, if they were to trade him, that team could decide whether or not to pay him.

That was a 5-year deal with a team option... Very important to point that out.

2. We don't know how he is going to look this coming year, but he was playing the best basketball of his career for 31 games prior to the injury... Averaging more points, rebounds and blocks than he ever had on 53% from the field plus playing stellar defense.

We will see how he does coming off of the injury, but I have no reason to believe that his play is going to be any different from where he left it in the first half of the year.

Obviously, he is a complimentary piece, so he needs talent around him in order to be on a winning team and he didn't have that last year. But, that doesn't mean that his play should be discounted.

3. I'd like to see the list of players as good as Varejao that you are going to get for $3-5m next year that offer his skillset.

4. Not sure how you deduced Haslem is tougher than Varejao... Both are guys that have relied on toughness throughout their careers. Varejao is also good at getting under opponents' skin. I've seen him frustrate the hell out of guys.

5. The fact that Varejao offers what he offers at 7-foot and is younger makes the comparison to Haslem in favor of Andy, at least right now.

Anderson is, what? 29 years old? With six years in the league? Let's not act like he is ancient, here. There was a time when NBA players really didn't start declining until their mid-30s. That timeline changed with the influx of high school kids and young foreign players that had logged 12 years in the NBA by the time they hit 30, but Varejao is not one of those.

His timeline is probably going to be like that of past generations, when guys were just getting their NBA careers started at 23.

6. This is all moot, anyway, because I don't want the Cavs to trade Varejao -- unless it is the right deal -- and I don't think that they want to trade Varejao.

[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]That's all you had to say.... And, I don't disagree with you.

My two points, though, were:

A. Even if the Knicks did want Varejao, what would they have to offer. Let's speak hypothetically, now. I realize that you don't want the trade, but for the team to even entertain the idea, you would need to have pieces that the Cavs would want. It isn't like he is a free agent.

and

B. Comparing Varejao to a Rony Turiaf is ridiculous. You don't have to want him on your team to rate him correctly.[/QUOTE]

Landry Fields has more value than Varejao

[QUOTE=NewYorkNoPicks]Landry Fields has more value than Varejao[/QUOTE]
You are impossible to even have a semi-intelligent conversation with.

What the f#ck difference does that make, even if it were true? They play two totally different positions and have completely different roles. :hammerhead:

[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]You are impossible to even have a semi-intelligent conversation with.

What the f#ck difference does that make, even if it were true? They play two totally different positions and have completely different roles. :hammerhead:[/QUOTE]

You said earlier there's nothing on the Knicks that had enough value to acquire Varejao aside from Carmelo and Amare.

Fields is more valuable around the league than Anderson... so we do have other assets.

i would like to see biyombo or faried or donatas
and darius morris

Motiejunas is a very dynamic scorer and I completely understand D'Antoni and his motives for having him - he'd fit perfectly within high paced Knicks offense. Not to mention his post game is already automatic and he is abusing his euro competition lately. He is a combination of Bargnani and Gasol offensively:applause:

[QUOTE=NewYorkNoPicks]Landry Fields has more value than Varejao[/QUOTE]

Wrong.

If he's not picked when it's turn for NY, then why not ?

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFqK-YXlsHs[/url]

[QUOTE=NuggetsFan]Isn't he projected to be a versatile 7 footer, with perimeter skills? Scoring being his main asset. Why you'd want to surround Melo|Amare with that is beyond me. I'd be looking for tough gritty defensive first guy's who rebounds the ball.

Everything I read is that he compares to AB. Why would you even want AB on the Knicks? That would basically solidify that the Knicks were going with the out score the opponent first, play defense second Mike D style of play. It would do wonders for Melo|Amare offensively but not the way to make serious noise.

I dunno much about him tho. Just what I read, and what I read seems to be the opposite of what the Knicks should do imo.[/QUOTE]
this is why its tough to try to talk basketball with some of the nugget fans on ish- this post shows you dont understand the game. If you have Carmelo you need a 4 to stretch the floor, and motiejunas would be a great fit. Imagine Carmelo and Amare in more 1 on 1's or 2 on 2's- Un stoppable
............
those saying to add a non offensive option dont understand the importance of floor spacing, esp w Carmelo as a power 3- put a dalembert or a kenyon Martin on the floor with Carmelo and you are taking away from your greatest strength- the knicks should strive to be the best offensive team in the league and work on defense from there, not make offense harder and expect that one guy will change a teams defense

Looks like the next 'skita! :oldlol:

[QUOTE=bagelred]Wrong.[/QUOTE]

When comparing players other than stars....young and potential beats older and established 9 times out of 10.

remember when Kobe was almost traded for Deng?

we already know what Varejao is, and is worth (certainly not his contract btw)...but Fields at the earlier part of the yera was compared to John Havlichek by other gms (me personally I'd say current Grant Hill)...so yeah

[QUOTE=NewYorkNoPicks]Landry Fields has more value than Varejao[/QUOTE]

you gotta be kidding me :facepalm

[QUOTE=Borat_Sagdyev][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFqK-YXlsHs[/url]
He's perfect in offense, but lazy in defense.
Today in Italy play offs Donatas scores 21 in first half (7/8 fgm-a)
[url]http://195.56.77.208/game/?id=64395[/url][/QUOTE]

fast break at 1:50 was sick lol

[QUOTE=HaNdLe ThE RoCk]you gotta be kidding me :facepalm[/QUOTE]

First half of the season Landry Fields wasn't worth more around the league than Anderson Varejao?

YOU have got to be kidding me.