Who was more athletic in their primes/peak: Lebron James vs. Michael Jordan

[QUOTE=Soundwave]I can say with fair certainty a 26-year-old Jordan would've been a much harder cover for 33-year-old Shawn Marion in a series.
[/QUOTE]
That probably has more to do with mental than physical.

[QUOTE=Da Heroic One]That probably has more to do with mental than physical.[/QUOTE]

Even physically, there's no way Marion would be able to stay in front of Jordan.

First step is just too quick.

LeBron's first step is considerably slower. There were times in this series where he was having problems even getting around Brian Cardinal.

You can only get so much speed out of a 6'9 frame.

LeBron is a Hummer, Jordan is a Ferrari.

LeBron is bigger, stronger.
More athletic? Jordan.
Not to mention at age 26, LeBron is already regressing slightly in his athletic abilities.

[QUOTE=Indian guy]I really don't understand what's so difficult to understand. If 84-90 MJ was given the same skill-set as 04-08 LeBron, would he be putting up 30/7/7? The answer is NO. As much of a freak MJ was, his game was a lot more reliant on skill than LeBron's ever was. At 6'6, 190 pounds, he would never be able to barrel into defenders possession-after-possession and maintain the kind of production LeBron did. He wasn't THAT gifted.[/QUOTE]

I think that he could. MJ put up better statlines than 30/7/7 between 84-90, so 30/7/7 would be downgrading. So with a worse skillset, he would still be able to put up something like that.

A better argument for your argument would be if you switched it around: If 04-08 LeBron had 84-90 MJ's skillset, he could put up crazyyyyyyy numbers.

[QUOTE=Soundwave]Even physically, there's no way Marion would be able to stay in front of Jordan.

First step is just too quick.

LeBron's first step is considerably slower. There were times in this series where he was having problems even getting around Brian Cardinal.

You can only get so much speed out of a 6'9 frame.

LeBron is a Hummer, Jordan is a Ferrari.[/QUOTE]

It would be a f*cking disaster. It would be like Marion trying to guard a stronger, slimmer, more athletic, taller, faster version of Wade that kept playing when off the ball, that would make Marion stay MORE honest because of a better jumper, and that was a goddamn energizer bunny. To be honest, MJ travelled hardcore on his first step though. :D

[QUOTE=lefthook00] To be honest, MJ travelled hardcore on his first step though. :D[/QUOTE]
Off the dribble or from the triple threat? Because its damn near impossible to travel off the dribble with your first step. Out of the triple threat, they thought that intially when he came in the league, but they had the ref committee review it and determined it was completely legal.

[QUOTE=lefthook00]It would be a f*cking disaster. It would be like Marion trying to guard a stronger, slimmer, more athletic, taller, faster version of Wade that kept playing when off the ball, that would make Marion stay MORE honest because of a better jumper, and that was a goddamn energizer bunny. To be honest, MJ travelled hardcore on his first step though. :D[/QUOTE]

Marion couldn't defend almost 40 years Jordan. He would be suicidal after series against a prime Jordan.

[QUOTE=Samurai Swoosh]Off the dribble or from the triple threat? Because its damn near impossible to travel off the dribble with your first step. Out of the triple threat, they thought that intially when he came in the league, but they had the ref committee review it and determined it was completely legal.[/QUOTE]

I'm talking out of the triple threat. Obviously everyone travels a little bit on their first step out of the triple threat, or it would be a worthless move. You're allowed to simultaneously dribble while stepping, but a lot of these are blatant travels, he puts the ball down AFTER the first step pretty much when his second step is landing. :D

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qukNKGNphoQ[/url]

[QUOTE=lefthook00]I'm talking out of the triple threat. Obviously everyone travels a little bit on their first step out of the triple threat, or it would be a worthless move. You're allowed to simultaneously dribble while stepping, but a lot of these are blatant travels, he puts the ball down AFTER the first step pretty much when his second step is landing. :D

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qukNKGNphoQ[/url][/QUOTE]
Yea I see your p.o.v.

But if you push the ball out of your hand, while simeltaneously taking your step, it's legal.

[QUOTE=Indian guy]

Look up MJ and LeBron's FTA per shot. LeBron's way ahead.[/QUOTE]

This is as much a function of the no-contact perimeter rules as anything else. '85-'91 MJ would average 11+ FTA annually, possibly as many as 13, under post-2006 rules.

LeBron has the advantage, he can disappear without using any cloak or paint or something.

Watch youtube videos of 1985-1992 Jordan. You will have your answer in a hurry.

They both have their advantages.

What Jordan did possess that never went away was his body control and balance. Those are two things LeBron never really had and won't have.

[QUOTE=KenneBell]
What Jordan did possess that never went away was his body control and balance. Those are two things LeBron never really had and won't have.[/QUOTE]
Footwork as well ...

you guise must be kidding, lebron is by far a better athlete than jordan. In terms of basketball skill, there are many players better than him, his skills are slightly above average, however his athleticism is far and beyond everyone elses in the league, in an era of the best athletes. His essentially a football player playing basketball and dominating.

[QUOTE=Samurai Swoosh]Footwork as well ...[/QUOTE]
This one really makes me mad and I brought it up on another board. How can Bron be such a good dancer and have such bad footwork? It makes no damn sense.

[QUOTE=Samurai Swoosh]Yea I see your p.o.v.

But if you push the ball out of your hand, while simeltaneously taking your step, it's legal.[/QUOTE]

you mean the ball has to touch the floor first before you have a step then it is legal?

As for athleticism - I have to give lebron the edge. He might be the fastest open court player I have ever seen and at size which is bigger and stronger than almost every perimeter player in the NBA. Jordan has some great athleticism as well but I have never seen someone like Lebron but with Jordan, VC and Kobe can almost live up to that level of athleticism.

The fact that LeBron is 2 inches taller and about 60 pounds heavier and this is being asked should tell you the answer.

LeBron, but it's really, really close. His combination of size, speed, agility, quickness, and power was amazing to watch. He could bulldoze you, run by you, jump over you, and make you look foolish. A 6'8 260 pound monster... the guy was built to play basketball.

Jordan's obviously the most athletic two-guard ever and a top 3-5 athlete of all-time, but along with his cat-like quickness, freaky endurance, etc. was a guy who was so fundamentally sound he made the game look easy. It would be scary to see LeBron with Jordan-like fundamentals. The league wouldn't stand a chance.

Isn't there some kind of sheet that already tested their physical abilities yet? At LeBron right?

I think we know how fast MJ could run, how high he can jump, and how strong he is already. Someone would just have to look it up and post it.

I'm not sure if we know that about LeBron James. I think we do, but someone would have to look that up.


In terms of basketball skills, that's a bit subjective to ppl who actually watched them play.

Like footwork. MJ has better footwork than LBJ. MJ triple threat moves is better too. Body control while in the air is better too, this deals with adjusting his shots.

[QUOTE=Soundwave]I can say with fair certainty a 26-year-old Jordan would've been a much harder cover for 33-year-old Shawn Marion in a series.

Especially if he had Wade and Bosh on the floor with him (cannot play Jordan rules defence).

Marion probably would've gotten dunked on a few times. Ditto for that Mavs rookie big man who was getting a lot of minutes. Jordan would've posterized him for sure :oldlol:

LeBron is simply not fast enough to get past a defence like that at will, most 6'9 guys aren't.[/QUOTE]
We're talking about Lebron in his athletic prime, not this year's who has 80% of his old athleticism at best.

And I'd say basically the same thing as Indian Guy, Lebron from '06-'10 was comparable (or even better in the case of 1-footed leaping) to Jordan in pretty much every aspect despite being 60+ pounds heavier. Jordan's a better player because he has a better skillset and doesn't inexplicably check out of playoff series, not because he's a better athlete.

Both are top 5 athleticism all time in their athletic prime. The type that will get rarer and rarer as people with genes like theirs mix in more with regular people.

[QUOTE=che guevara]We're talking about Lebron in his athletic prime, not this year's who has 80% of his old athleticism at best.[/QUOTE]
I'd honestly say less than that ... and that's not even about me no longering liking him as a person or player. That's just honesty. Physically he looked about 65% - 70% the player he was even a year ago.

[QUOTE=Da Heroic One]Discuss[/QUOTE]
MJ.

[QUOTE=KenneBell]This one really makes me mad and I brought it up on another board. How can Bron be such a good dancer and have such bad footwork? It makes no damn sense.[/QUOTE]
It really doesn't.

Michael Jordan and Lebron James are guys who had the best combination of size, speed, quickness, vertical, power, endurance, explosiveness, conditioning and durability ever. Its very debatable.

At prime that is, right now Lebron has added more muscle/weight and his mobility/quickness/acceleration has taken a hit somewhat, probably his vertical aswell. Have no idea why he keeps adding muscle and muscle, i mean for gods sake you are a perimeter player, heck even a point-forward / guard / pointguard offensively (and even defensively often guarding small pointguards), dont understand what he wants with that kindof 260-270 lbs weight at the perimeter (what perimeter player did ever carry such size?), it will just take a hit on his mobility/acceleration and even footwork, he should lose some of that weight unless he is gona use it to post up 24/7 (which he wont).

[QUOTE=sh0wtime]Michael Jordan and Lebron James are guys who had the best combination of size, speed, quickness, vertical, power, endurance, explosiveness, conditioning and durability ever. Its very debatable.[/QUOTE]

I wouldnt go that far. If I'm building a basketball player give me David Robinson's athletic profile before Lebrons....

Lebron is probably one of the top 5 athletes to ever touch a ball. But he is in the debate with guys like:

Jordan
Wilt
David Robinson
Hakeem
Shaq
KG

[QUOTE=IGOTGAME]I wouldnt go that far. If I'm building a basketball player give me David Robinson's athletic profile before Lebrons....

Lebron is probably one of the top 5 athletes to ever touch a ball. But he is in the debate with guys like:

Jordan
Wilt
David Robinson
Hakeem
Shaq
KG[/QUOTE]
Hakeem? Ummm, no.

[QUOTE=Samurai Swoosh]Hakeem? Ummm, no.[/QUOTE]

Hakeem is one of the great athletes to ever set foot in the NBA. Guy was a freak.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDBYWCwAN2o[/url]

look at the block at 1:20. That is a great athlete

[QUOTE=IGOTGAME]Hakeem is one of the great athletes to ever set foot in the NBA. Guy was a freak.[/QUOTE]
You can come up with some more athletic dudes than Hakeem.

[QUOTE=Samurai Swoosh]You can come up with some more athletic dudes than Hakeem.[/QUOTE]

blake?

[QUOTE=CHi1PriDe]blake?[/QUOTE]
Kemp
Blake
Nate Robinson
Derrick Rose

All he did was list big men ... there is a lot more athletic people than the big men he named.

Jordan. Not even close.

LeBron has no moves.

No mid-range game, no crossovers, no fadeaways, no catch and shoot off a screen, no jab steps, no fakes, his jumper is inconsistent, no post up game, nothing at all. LeBron's game is basically iso, take a couple of dribbles, launch a 27-footer, or just bowl over dudes and get points.

:oldlol: @ traveling and running over dudes being his signature moves.

LeBron is basically Jerome Bettis playing basketball.

[QUOTE=che guevara]We're talking about Lebron in his athletic prime, not this year's who has 80% of his old athleticism at best.

And I'd say basically the same thing as Indian Guy, Lebron from '06-'10 was comparable (or even better in the case of 1-footed leaping) to Jordan in pretty much every aspect despite being 60+ pounds heavier. Jordan's a better player because he has a better skillset and doesn't inexplicably check out of playoff series, not because he's a better athlete.[/QUOTE]

LeBron had problems getting past older Celtic defenders in years past as a Cavalier also.

He just isn't as explosive off the dribble or with his first step as a younger Jordan.

Someone at 6'9 simply cannot be that fast.

Period. Skill has nothing to do with that.

Beyond that, LeBron doesn't seem to have the body control (agility) in the air that Jordan did. Jordan could jump over, around, and even shift his body in mid-air while taking contact and still lay or dunk the ball in. LeBron can do some of that, but not at the same level.

Also what good is all this athleticism if it's gone by age 26? LOL. How is that even possible? Aren't athletes today supposed to have access to far better training methods and supplements? Jordan was dunking on everyone and their grandma at age 26.

For football:LeBron

For basketball: Jordan

LeBron is more of a Frankenstein type freak when you consider his size, power, speed and athleticism.

But for basketball purposes, i truly feel MJ was the best athlete ever. He was the best combination of fluidity, quickness, reflexes, coordination, agility, speed and explosiveness. There was just no delay in his movements. He just had that wirey body where every move he made was instant and fluid.

[QUOTE=Ne 1]Jordan. Not even close.

LeBron has no moves.

No mid-range game, no crossovers, no fadeaways, no catch and shoot off a screen, no jab steps, no fakes, his jumper is inconsistent, no post up game, nothing at all. LeBron's game is basically iso, take a couple of dribbles, launch a 27-footer, or just bowl over dudes and get points.

:oldlol: @ traveling and running over dudes being his signature moves.

LeBron is basically Jerome Bettis playing basketball.[/QUOTE]

:roll:

No wonder Kobe fans are called Kobetards. This retard right here can't tell the difference between athletic ability and basketball skills :banghead:

[QUOTE=ClipperRevival]LeBron is more of a Frankenstein type freak when you consider his size, power, speed and athleticism.

But for basketball purposes, i truly feel MJ was the best athlete ever. He was the best combination of fluidity, quickness, reflexes, coordination, agility, speed and explosiveness. There was just no delay in his movements. He just had that wirey body where every move he made was instant and fluid.[/QUOTE]

Yup, well said. There's a reason players called him "Black Cat". Even at 34 years old, his quickness at his size was virtually unmatched. In all his movements - not just first step etc. For example, look at the speed of the fake, step-through, and gather for the shot here:

[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmIv-RfvunI#t=7m34s"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmIv-RfvunI#t=7m34s[/URL]

Seems like nothing at first glance, but that is a LIGHTNING quick sequence.

[QUOTE=ClipperRevival]LeBron is more of a Frankenstein type freak when you consider his size, power, speed and athleticism.

But for basketball purposes, i truly feel MJ was the best athlete ever. He was the best combination of fluidity, quickness, reflexes, coordination, agility, speed and explosiveness. There was just no delay in his movements. He just had that wirey body where every move he made was instant and fluid.[/QUOTE]
Really all that needs to be said.

As a [I]human being[/I] Lebron is the bigger freak.

As far as the game we watch? Jordan takes it.