06,09 Wade vs Kobe

[QUOTE=IGOTGAME]Kobe was a lot better in 05-06 than he was in 09. The difference was the cast and role he had to play. No one put Wade even in the conversation with Kobe in '06. It is revisionist history to pretend they were on the same level. Wade had a great series in the finals and people pretend he was better than he was for the entire season. Wade was a limited player in '06.[/QUOTE]
Limited in what way? Because he couldn't shoot 3s? Awesome, it's too bad he still shot 50% while Kobe was shooting his typical 45%. I really don't know why people act like being good at shooting the 3 is a necessary feature.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2CyJdCq-zU[/url]

Kobe was better in 05-06 than he was in 08 and 09? Sure he was a better scorer, but that's pretty much it. It's not like Kobe couldn't score in 07-08 or 08-09 either, he just did other aspects of the game.

Let me ask you this, who is better? Kevin Durant or LeBron James, right now.

[QUOTE=ThaSwagg3r]Limited in what way? Because he couldn't shoot 3s? Awesome, it's too bad he still shot 50% while Kobe was shooting his typical 45%. I really don't know why people act like being good at shooting the 3 is a necessary feature.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2CyJdCq-zU[/url]

Kobe was better in 05-06 than he was in 08 and 09? Sure he was a better scorer, but that's pretty much it. It's not like Kobe couldn't score in 07-08 or 08-09 either, he just did other aspects of the game.

Let me ask you this, who is better? Kevin Durant or LeBron James, right now.[/QUOTE]
i agree the 3 point shot is very overrated

[QUOTE=ThaSwagg3r]
Kobe was better in 05-06 than he was in 08 and 09? Sure he was a better scorer, but that's pretty much it. It's not like Kobe couldn't score in 07-08 or 08-09 either, he just did other aspects of the game. [/QUOTE]
What did he do in 09 that makes up for the large gap in scoring?

[QUOTE=IGOTGAME]Kobe was a lot better in 05-06 than he was in 09. The difference was the cast and role he had to play. No one put Wade even in the conversation with Kobe in '06. It is revisionist history to pretend they were on the same level. Wade had a great series in the finals and people pretend he was better than he was for the entire season. Wade was a limited player in '06.

this is even before we put in there defensive capabilities.[/QUOTE]
Of course no was going to put him in the conversation Kobe was in his prime had already won 3 rings and was hyped up as the next Jordan. Wade on the other hand was in his 3rd year and was a player no one really cared about. I don't think anybody at the time really compared the two.

[QUOTE=chazzy]What did he do in 09 that makes up for the large gap in scoring?[/QUOTE]
Kobe actually scored more in the 2008 and 2009 playoffs than he did in the 2006 playoffs. (30 ppg vs. 28 ppg) But honestly, I thought Kobe played better defense, made more plays for his teammates, and was more of a team player during those seasons than he did in 2006. I know that Kobe literally had to score 30-40+ ppg in order for his team to win in 2006. I still like team play, and I know I can't knock on Kobe for not being too much of a team player back in 2006 because he just couldn't do that if he wanted to win.

The playoffs to me is what separates 08 and 09 Kobe from 06 Kobe though. Regular season dominance doesn't hold that much weight to me. Otherwise, I would be saying LeBron James is the best player in the league and Rose is a top 5 player currently, which I believe are both false.

That is why I think 09 Kobe was better than 09 Wade. Wade was better than Kobe in the regular season but he wasn't better in the playoffs. Wade was just not that impressive in the 09 playoffs, he just wasn't. Sure he scored 29 ppg but he shot 44% which is completely below his standards. Wade typically shoots 49-50% in the field, 5-6% decrease is pretty drastic, that decrease is something Karl Malone would have.

I value the playoffs much more than I value the regular season.

[QUOTE=ThaSwagg3r][B]I find 06 Kobe very overrated.[/B] Maybe it is just me but I found Kobe's 08 and 09 season much more impressive than Kobe's 06 season. Sure Kobe scored a lot better in 06, but he did a lot of other things better in 08 and 09. I like versatility and the overall package in my players.

Dwyane Wade was the best player in the world after the 2005-2006 season.

I would have no problem with someone putting 09 Kobe over 06 Wade, but I do have a problem with someone putting 06 Kobe over 06 Wade.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/568/terryface.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=ThaSwagg3r]Limited in what way? Because he couldn't shoot 3s? Awesome, it's too bad he still shot 50% while Kobe was shooting his typical 45%. I really don't know why people act like being good at shooting the 3 is a necessary feature.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2CyJdCq-zU[/url]

Kobe was better in 05-06 than he was in 08 and 09? Sure he was a better scorer, but that's pretty much it. It's not like Kobe couldn't score in 07-08 or 08-09 either, he just did other aspects of the game.

Let me ask you this, who is better? Kevin Durant or LeBron James, right now.[/QUOTE]


HAHAHA I love Geeks who always talks about shooting 50% Look here youngen.

Just like you said Kobe shoots his typical 45% and lets just say he shot 12/26 which is about 46% compare to 13/26 which is 50%.... SO you are crying about ONE fucccking shot out of entire game. Kobe miss ONE, Im talking ONE shot and you are sitting here winning about it. :facepalm


06 Kobe avrg 35/5/4

With Kobes Athleticism at the time he could of EASILY grab 8 boards per game if he wanted to be like JKidd/LeBron but People who actually follow his game can tell you Kobe plays his role then care about stats.

As for assist With Mihm,Brown as ur Bigs not much he can do especially Kobe gets his assist from Playmaking drawing double teams on drives but with Weak Bigs who cant catch and finish of course it is gonna hurt his numbers. Triangle uselessly ends up with Hockey assist from the play maker as well.

06 There was no One stoping this Man. He was MJ esq for sure. UNSTOPPABLE and UNTOUCHABLE.

[QUOTE=NugzHeat3]I didn't say Wade was better than Kobe in 2006. I said I would take Kobe in 2006 and Wade in 2009.

Did that post hurt your feelings?[/QUOTE]

:facepalm U mad ?

[QUOTE=ZaaaaaH]HAHAHA I love Geeks who always talks about shooting 50% Look here youngen.

Just like you said Kobe shoots his typical 45% and lets just say he shot 12/26 which is about 46% compare to 13/26 which is 50%.... SO you are crying about ONE fucccking shot out of entire game. Kobe miss ONE, Im talking ONE shot and you are sitting here winning about it. :facepalm
[/QUOTE]

To be fair, from an 82-game season perspective, the difference between 50 and 45% is about one shot; however, when watching the games on a nightly basis, it's never this black and white. When Wade was shooting 50%, he rarely had abysmal shooting nights and when he did, he could make up for them because of all the 50-60%+ games (check the box scores from '09 to see what I'm talking about). Kobe on the other hand is more inclined to have 30-40% shooting nights (which is more than missing just [I]one shot[/I]); of course he has his share of efficient exhibitions, but it's not nearly the amount Wade has.

Don't forget to consider that Dwyane Wade is better defensively than Kobe Bryant.

[QUOTE=IGOTGAME]Kobe was a lot better in 05-06 than he was in 09. The difference was the cast and role he had to play. No one put Wade even in the conversation with Kobe in '06. It is revisionist history to pretend they were on the same level. Wade had a great series in the finals and people pretend he was better than he was for the entire season. Wade was a limited player in '06.

this is even before we put in there defensive capabilities.[/QUOTE]
This.

lol @ 09 Kobe>06 Kobe. Not even close. 06 Kobe was better in every facet of the game. He just didn't have the same type of supporting cast. And boiling Kobe 06 to "just scoring" is just silly. 35/5/5/2/56% TS and one of the best players at taking care of the ball (9.0% TOV rate). And he made 1st Team Defense.

:facepalm

[QUOTE=ThaSwagg3r]Old enough to know there is more to the game than scoring. I watched Kobe in 2005-2006, sure it was amazing, but it is not like that was his best season ever.[/QUOTE]
:facepalm

[QUOTE=ThaSwagg3r]
I would have no problem with someone putting 09 Kobe over 06 Wade, but I do have a problem with someone putting 06 Kobe over 06 Wade.[/QUOTE]

I think it's just a case of extremely different situations. Wade was a better scorer and all around player in 2009 than he was in 2006, but he had a crappy cast, and like Kobe in 2006, he lost in the 1st round.

The difference between Kobe's situation in 2009 and 2006 is obvious. His second best player(by far) in 2006 was his 3rd best player in 2009 and a distant 3rd behind Kobe and Gasol. Luke Walton was much less of a factor due to them having a much better SF in front of him in Ariza and the '09 team also had a big frontcourt giving them an advantage over teams.

You expect them to be a hell of a lot better.

As far as 2006 Kobe vs 2006 Wade. It goes beyond just being a better scorer. 8 ppg is a massive difference and he was doing things that were almost unheard of. 35.4 ppg is the second highest scoring average since the 60's then there's 27 40 point games, outscoring the 60 win Western Conference Champion Mavs 62-61 in 3 quarters, 81 points in a game ect. His offensive game was lethal. He had the elevation on his jumper and range to make the toughest shots imaginable(and he had to quite often), the moves off the dribble, the mid-range game, athleticism....all of the ingredients to make him the most dangerous streak scorer I've ever seen. Just being able to deal with all of that defensive attention and have the stamina to attempt 27 shots per game and play 41 mpg while scoring at that volume efficiently is historic. 45% shooting is good for a high scoring perimeter player, but especially one who makes that many 3s and shoots that well at the line, and that's reflected in his 56 TS%.

And he was definitely more than just a scorer, Kobe has always been a very good passer and given his offensive load, his defense was impressive in 2006. He still locked down some very good scorers at times.

Wade was great in the ECF and Finals, but when there's an 82 game season where Kobe was better by a clear margin, I don't think it's that tough of a choice to make because it's not like Kobe choked in the playoffs.

Wade has never been better than kobe, stop it slime:facepalm

In 2006 Kobe had a crappy supporting cast, but a more impressive individual season. But Wade won the title.

In 2009 Wade had a crappy supporting cast, but a more impressive individual season. Kobe won the title.

Of course a player will carry more of the load with a crappier team, that's expected. Even though they both lost in 7 games in the first round, those were the 2 seasons where both players arguably deserved MVP over their peers, Kobe over Nash and Wade over LeBron.

But overall if you ask me to pick 06 Kobe or 09 Wade, I'll pick Kobe because his season was more historical. Kobe was a lot better than everyone gives him credit for. Like Shaqattack said, playing 40+MPG while being the primary focus of other teams and able to get off 27 shots a game is impressive. Many years later, when you look back into these 2 seasons, whose season stands out more?

wellll I missed alot =p

The whole "you have to take 09 Wade over 09 Kobe if you take 06 Kobe over 06 Wade" doesn't make sense. The context isn't the same. 09 Kobe was on a 65-team in the West. 09 Wade only won 42 in the weak East. That's a far, far bigger gap than the 7 game difference between them in 2006.

Anyone who watched 09 Kobe knew that he was coasting and that he was more than capable of completely turning it up a level if needed. You never really got that same sense from 06 Wade. The Heat certainly could have used it. Again, they only won 52 games in the East (only 7 more wins with a far better supporting cast)

Kobe was a beast in 06 no wade yrs can compare... with that being said i think its stupid to say kobes season yr in 09 was better then wades in 09... im not sure if we are talkin about the stats or the players... if its the stats then wade was better then kobe that yr and its not close but if were talkin about who was the better player then its kobe because kobe not only won the title but completely turned it on in the playoffs

[B][U]1st round exits[/U][/B]
06 Kobe>>> 09 Wade

[B][U]Championship run[/U][/B]
09 Kobe>>> 06 Wade

Swag!

It takes a lot more than [SIZE="4"]1[/SIZE] great season to surpass a legend!

[QUOTE=G-Funk][B][U]1st round exits[/U][/B]
06 Kobe>>> 09 Wade

[B][U]Championship run[/U][/B]
09 Kobe>>> 06 Wade

Swag![/QUOTE]
are you dumb like real talks are you like retarded in the ****ing head these Kobe fans are stupid acting like its not close.

[QUOTE=ZaaaaaH]HAHAHA I love Geeks who always talks about shooting 50% Look here youngen.

Just like you said Kobe shoots his typical 45% and lets just say he shot 12/26 which is about 46% compare to 13/26 which is 50%.... SO you are crying about ONE fucccking shot out of entire game. Kobe miss ONE, Im talking ONE shot and you are sitting here winning about it. :facepalm


06 Kobe avrg 35/5/4

With Kobes Athleticism at the time he could of EASILY grab 8 boards per game if he wanted to be like JKidd/LeBron but People who actually follow his game can tell you Kobe plays his role then care about stats.

As for assist With Mihm,Brown as ur Bigs not much he can do especially Kobe gets his assist from Playmaking drawing double teams on drives but with Weak Bigs who cant catch and finish of course it is gonna hurt his numbers. Triangle uselessly ends up with Hockey assist from the play maker as well.

06 There was no One stoping this Man. He was MJ esq for sure. UNSTOPPABLE and UNTOUCHABLE.[/QUOTE]
It doesn't matter if he could of grabbed 8 boards he didn't end of story. Wade could of easily lead the 09,10 Heat to 50-55 game if he was agressive the whole season but instead he spent half the season trying to get his teamates going.

[QUOTE=Ikill]are you dumb like real talks are you like retarded in the ****ing head these Kobe fans are stupid acting like its not close.[/QUOTE]
:oldlol: don't get mad bruh

[QUOTE=G-Funk][B][U]1st round exits[/U][/B]
06 Kobe>>> 09 Wade

[B][U]Championship run[/U][/B]
09 Kobe>>> 06 Wade

Swag![/QUOTE]


QFT

[QUOTE=Jacks3]The whole "you have to take 09 Wade over 09 Kobe if you take 06 Kobe over 06 Wade" doesn't make sense. The context isn't the same. 09 Kobe was on a 65-team in the West. 09 Wade only won 42 in the weak East. That's a far, far bigger gap than the 7 game difference between them in 2006.

Anyone who watched 09 Kobe knew that he was coasting and that he was more than capable of completely turning it up a level if needed. You never really got that same sense from 06 Wade. The Heat certainly could have used it. Again, they only won 52 games in the East (only 7 more wins with a far better supporting cast)[/QUOTE]

Context please.

Wade missed 7 games
Shaq missed 23 games
Williams missed 23 games
Mourning missed 17 games
Posey missed 15 games

Using regular season records to judge a team is often flawed. The truth is that the Heat were the 2nd favorites to win the title going into 2006. Only the defending champion Spurs were ahead of them. They played a lackluster season for a variety of reasons including injuries and the Stan Van Gundy situation.

The team was barely over .500 with Van Gundy and was actually pretty dominant under Riley. Of course, it was under Riley and healthy in which the team won the title.

So lets not act like 52 regular season wins is a good way of judging that Heat team.



And yes, if you take 06 Kobe over 06 Wade....then you need to be consistent for 09 as well.

[QUOTE=Ikill]so who was better
06 Wade or 06 Kobe
09 Wade or 09 Kobe
06 Wade or 09 Kobe
09 Wade or 06 Kobe[/QUOTE]


the GOAT kobe for all. including the previous 5 and the next 5 coming up.

Those Kobe homers are unreal.

2009 Wade shits on 2009, he shit on him head to head, statistically, dominance wise, Kobe literally has no case over Wade in 2009, and if he does, then Wade has a case over Kobe in 2006.

I pretty much agree with ShaqAttack here.

2006 Kobe > 2006 Wade (easiest choice to make, ShaqAttack explained it very nicely)
2006 Kobe > 2009 Wade
2009 Kobe > 2009 Wade (but its very close, arguable)
2009 Kobe > 2006 Wade

My list:
06 Kobe>06 Wade
06 Kobe>09 Wade
09 Kobe<09 Wade
09 Kobe>06 Wade

And everyone saying their situations in 09 and 06 are totally comparable needs to stop kidding themselves. They had equal shitty supporting casts except the Lakers played in the much, much stronger west, and the Heat played in the weaker east. The Lakers had to play the 1 seed in a seven game series[and up until that point in history, no team had EVER won as an 8 seed in a seven game series].. and they lost despite Kobe playing brilliantly. The Heat on the other hand, played the fvcking hawks. The suns were a FAR better team than the hawks and it's not even close. You give Kobe the hawks in the first round and he easily drags his team past them[as he came within a hair of upsetting a much better team].. something Wade could not do despite how good he was all season long in 09.

[QUOTE=Ikill]It doesn't matter if he could of grabbed 8 boards he didn't end of story. Wade could of easily lead the 09,10 Heat to 50-55 game if he was agressive the whole season but instead he spent half the season trying to get his teamates going.[/QUOTE]

Yes He could of but he didnt so people need to understand 1-2 rebound dont mean that much difference especially when it comes to player like Kobe who rather get Back on defense like a guard should instead of going for stats. But like I said Im not a big fan of stats so letting the geeks know there are other intangibles to the game.

Again if it was that "EASY" Why didnt he? I love the fact that you try to say Wade "Tried" to get his teammates going. :applause: :facepalm

Why 09 Wade is so overrated is because he Ball hogged and try to take over games and which he did for some. With the squad he had Wade had to ball hog so no hate there but I love when people say Wades team was just as Bad from 06 Kobe and thats False.

Beasly = Odom Give me JO, and Haslem over Brown and Mihm. QRich over Smush or who ever that Bum Squad had. QRich ova Rush.

Bottom Line Wade cannot touch Kobe PERIOD. Its amazing how Wade fan boys have some Balls to compare Kobe to Wade.

Its like MJ to Kobe and Kobe to Wade. Thats the Gap. So Stop Trying.

[QUOTE=tpols]My list:
06 Kobe>06 Wade
06 Kobe>09 Wade
09 Kobe<09 Wade
09 Kobe>06 Wade

And everyone saying their situations in 09 and 06 are totally comparable needs to stop kidding themselves. They had equal shitty supporting casts except the Lakers played in the much, much stronger west, and the Heat played in the weaker east. The Lakers had to play the 1 seed in a seven game series[and up until that point in history, no team had EVER won as an 8 seed in a seven game series].. and they lost despite Kobe playing brilliantly. The Heat on the other hand, played the fvcking hawks. The suns were a FAR better team than the hawks and it's not even close. You give Kobe the hawks in the first round and he easily drags his team past them[as he came within a hair of upsetting a much better team].. something Wade could not do despite how good he was all season long in 09.[/QUOTE]
This.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Context please.

Wade missed 7 games
Shaq missed 23 games
Williams missed 23 games
Mourning missed 17 games
Posey missed 15 games

Using regular season records to judge a team is often flawed. The truth is that the Heat were the 2nd favorites to win the title going into 2006. Only the defending champion Spurs were ahead of them. They played a lackluster season for a variety of reasons including injuries and the Stan Van Gundy situation.

The team was barely over .500 with Van Gundy and was actually pretty dominant under Riley. Of course, it was under Riley and healthy in which the team won the title.

So lets not act like 52 regular season wins is a good way of judging that Heat team.



And yes, if you take 06 Kobe over 06 Wade....then you need to be consistent for 09 as well.[/QUOTE]
And their supporting cast was still far stronger than the 06 Lakers, even with the injuries. Oh, and they played in the East.

And no, Kobe 09/06 was a better basketball player than Wade 09/06.

:pimp:

[QUOTE=Vien]I pretty much agree with ShaqAttack here.

2006 Kobe > 2006 Wade (easiest choice to make, ShaqAttack explained it very nicely)
2006 Kobe > 2009 Wade
2009 Kobe > 2009 Wade (but its very close, arguable)
2009 Kobe > 2006 Wade[/QUOTE]
Yup.

I'd have rather had Wade every year other than 2011 and 2008. There are situations where Kobe would be better though due to his outside shot and ability to catch and shoot. He's known as a ball dominater and he kind of is, but you could plug Kobe Bryant into just about any team and not disrupt their chemistry due to his all around offensive game, whereas Wade needs to be in a situation where he can dribble for a few seconds and then slash in.

[QUOTE=Jacks3]And their supporting cast was still far stronger than the 06 Lakers, even with the injuries. Oh, and they played in the East.

And no, Kobe 09/06 was a better basketball player than Wade 09/06.

:pimp:[/QUOTE]

And they won more games. And won the freaking title. You act like its at all comparable or something.

I disagree about both years, but I don't think it makes much sense to say one was better in 06 and then do the opposite for 09.

[QUOTE=tpols]My list:
06 Kobe>06 Wade
06 Kobe>09 Wade
09 Kobe<09 Wade
09 Kobe>06 Wade

And everyone saying their situations in 09 and 06 are totally comparable needs to stop kidding themselves. They had equal shitty supporting casts except the Lakers played in the much, much stronger west, and the Heat played in the weaker east. The Lakers had to play the 1 seed in a seven game series[and up until that point in history, no team had EVER won as an 8 seed in a seven game series].. and they lost despite Kobe playing brilliantly. The Heat on the other hand, played the fvcking hawks. The suns were a FAR better team than the hawks and it's not even close. You give Kobe the hawks in the first round and he easily drags his team past them[as he came within a hair of upsetting a much better team].. something Wade could not do despite how good he was all season long in 09.[/QUOTE]
Two factual mistakes in this post.

The Sun were not the first seed.

The 8th seed Nuggets beat the 1st seed Sonics in 1994.

I admit that Wade didn't play particularly well against Atlanta. He ****ed up in game 4 @ home which would have put us up 3-1. Shit got me mad cause Wade/Bron in the ECSF would've been epic.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]And they won more games. And won the freaking title. You act like its at all comparable or something.

I disagree about both years, but I don't think it makes much sense to say one was better in 06 and then do the opposite for 09.[/QUOTE]
It makes perfect sense. Kobe was a better player both years.

And that they won the title (gifted it actually) doesn't mean much. They still weren't close to the 65 wins in a tougher conference like the 09 Lakers.

bump

bump

Kobe in all, not even close..