ISH All-time Top 25 Guards Project: #2 Kobe Bryant vs Magic Johnson.

I think this is very close, but I'd have to go with Magic, simply because he was dominant from the first day until he retired (his career ended early too, he coulda been productive for a few more years) and the gap between him and Kareem from the early days was closer than the gap between Kobe and Shaq (huge in 2000).

[B]Magic[/B] for obvious reasons. Best to move along before this thread gets filled with "U MAD" Kobe trolls

[QUOTE=Miller for 3][B]Magic[/B] for obvious reasons. Best to move along before this thread gets filled with "U MAD" Kobe trolls[/QUOTE]


Please tell me those "Obvious" reasonS nub?

Its "Obvious" Kobe is better for those reasons. You should move along before I owned ur nub asss in this tread.

magic is the lakers all time steals and assist leader. so magic is better.

[QUOTE=MiseryCityTexas]magic is the lakers all time steals and assist leader. so magic is better.[/QUOTE]

Stockton is better then Magic since He is the ALL TIME NBA Leader. :facepalm

One retard down.

Next.

It's kinda funny that Magic will win this by a pretty easy margin, but when Kobe is 15+ removed from the leagie via retirement, it will end up being a 50/50 split at worst for Kobe....and 75/25 at best in favor of Bryant.

[QUOTE=Carbine]It's kinda funny that Magic will win this by a pretty easy margin, but when Kobe is 15+ removed from the leagie via retirement, it will end up being a 50/50 split at worst for Kobe....and 75/25 at best in favor of Bryant.[/QUOTE]
I doubt it. Kobe imo is going to go down after retirement. He has a legion of stat based haters unlike any other.

I wouldn't be surprised if bruceblitz convinces people here Kobe isn't a top 20 player during that time period.

[QUOTE=IGOTGAME]I doubt it. Kobe imo is going to go down after retirement. He has a legion of stat based haters unlike any other.

I wouldn't be surprised if bruceblitz convinces people here Kobe isn't a top 20 player during that time period.[/QUOTE]

If Kobe continues to win more championships, I'm not really sure you can 'hate' on his legacy; don't think he'll drop either. Bill Russell has moderately-good individual statistics but his led-championships are why he's at the very least top 5. Kobe needs to continue to win, and if he does, he's going up...not down.

Gotta love the guys who claim its so obvious yet struggle to actually point out something worthwhile :oldlol:

I think people really have deluded themselves into thinking Kobe Bryant is simply 5 RINGSSSSS and don't know how to react when his sustained level of extended dominance (All star awards, All league awards and all defensive team awards) matches up favorably to pretty much anybody and everybody in the history of the league.

[QUOTE=catch24]If Kobe continues to win more championships, I'm not really sure you can 'hate' on his legacy; don't think he'll drop either. Bill Russell has moderately-good individual statistics but his led-championships are why he's at the very least top 5. Kobe needs to continue to win, and if he does, he's going up...not down.[/QUOTE]
maybe. The only thing I would add is there infinitely more gametape and advanced stats for Kobe to get hated on for. Also, I'm not sure la is gonna win any more titles with kobe. They need to shake things up.

[QUOTE=IGOTGAME]maybe. The only thing I would add is there infinitely more gametape and advanced stats for Kobe to get hated on for. Also, I'm not sure la is gonna win any more titles with kobe. They need to shake things up.[/QUOTE]

The fallacy is that "advanced stats" has ever mattered in player legacy. It hasn't and never will. How many more Derick Rose and Steve Nash MVPs do you all need to see to realize this?

[QUOTE=Nick Young]The one with more All-NBA teams, he didn't get a chance to play with Kareem and Worthy but STILL has as many rings as magicc[/QUOTE]

only you (and your troll crew) would act like 2000 Shaq was inferior to Kareem in the 80s or somehow pump James Worthy to be an elite legend when he was no better than Vince Carter or, you know, Pau Gasol.

[QUOTE=EricForman]only you (and your troll crew) would act like 2000 Shaq was inferior to Kareem in the 80s or somehow pump James Worthy to be an elite legend when he was no better than Vince Carter or, you know, Pau Gasol.[/QUOTE]

The difference is Magic had Kareem AND Worthy.... Kobe had Shaq OR Gasol

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]The difference is Magic had Kareem AND Worthy.... Kobe had Shaq OR Gasol[/QUOTE]

and Magic played his rival, who had McHale,Paris and DJ...

gotta look at eras. Magic's team was stacked but he went at a stacked team in Boston too. Now if Boston never existed and Magic was just feasting on poor overmatched mid 80s Bulls or Pistons, then I'd knock MAgic for having superior help. But that wasn't the case.

[QUOTE=EricForman]and Magic played his rival, who had McHale,Paris and DJ...

gotta look at eras. Magic's team was stacked but he went at a stacked team in Boston too. Now if Boston never existed and Magic was just feasting on poor overmatched mid 80s Bulls or Pistons, then I'd knock MAgic for having superior help. But that wasn't the case.[/QUOTE]


yeah he played them 3 times in 12 years and beat them twice...:rockon:

you got nothing.....




next

[QUOTE=EricForman]only you (and your troll crew) would act like 2000 Shaq was inferior to Kareem in the 80s or somehow pump James Worthy to be an elite legend when he was no better than Vince Carter or, you know, Pau Gasol.[/QUOTE]
LOL Magic had Kareem and Worthy AT THE SAME TIME not to mention quality role players like Byron Scott and Kurt Rambis.

The best third option Kobe ever had was an old grandpa Glen Rice or a grandpa Karl Malone

[QUOTE=Nick Young]LOL Magic had Kareem and Worthy AT THE SAME TIME not to mention quality role players like Byron Scott and Kurt Rambis.

The best third option Kobe ever had was an old grandpa Glen Rice or a grandpa Karl Malone[/QUOTE]

As long as there were other team(s) in the league with similar fire power (and Boston did), than Magic wasn't exactly getting an unfair advantage. Also, 2000 Shaq was better than any Kareem in the 80s.

It's so sad, Kobe trolls have to take down everyone to make Kobe better, even Magic, a guy who did so much for the franchise Kobe's played for.

Listen, I won't argue with you on Magic vs Kobe, because Kobe HAS A CASE of being better than him, so you may have a point. unlike, you know, [B]MICHAEL JORDAN[/B]. :oldlol:

UMAD?

Magic hands down.

Sure, Kobe can score better/more, he can play better defense, but Magic just knows how to play better.... .specially when it matters the most.

Magic's IQ alone>>>>

[QUOTE=AlphaWolf24]yeah he played them 3 times in 12 years and beat them twice...:rockon:

you got nothing.....




next[/QUOTE]

He also faced the Sixers with Dr.J, Toney, Cheeks, Bobby Jones, and later Moses. And the Pistons with Dantley, Thomas, Dumars, Rodman, Laimbeer, Vinnie Johnson, and later Mark Aguirre. Who are way better than the Nets, Pacers, Sixers, and Magic(09).



next

[QUOTE=andgar923]Magic hands down.

Sure, Kobe can score better/more, he can play better defense, but Magic just knows how to play better.... .specially when it matters the most.

Magic's IQ alone>>>>[/QUOTE]


LOL so If Kobe can score and play better defense which is pretty much 100% of the game then how is it "Hands down" ?

I do agree Magic had a better TEAM Bball IQ with better Instincts but those alone does not make him better then Kobe.

Lets all be real if you are not over 40 you know shiit about 80's Basketball. I can pin point the haters Clearly in this tread especially the ones who pick Magic with no argument since they have none to begin with because they lack the knowledge and have Kobe hate take over them. Bottom line I only see two Legit post saying Magic was better and one of them is by Shaqattack but then again Shaqattack picked Nash over Iverson....

[QUOTE=MasterDurant24]He also faced the Sixers with Dr.J, Toney, Cheeks, Bobby Jones, and later Moses. And the Pistons with Dantley, Thomas, Dumars, Rodman, Laimbeer, Vinnie Johnson, and later Mark Aguirre. Who are way better than the Nets, Pacers, Sixers, and Magic(09).



next[/QUOTE]


Again Haters fail to mention 2010 Boston since they want to make their argument sound much better. :lol

What a loser.:facepalm

[QUOTE=ZaaaaaH]LOL so If Kobe can score and play better defense which is pretty much 100% of the game then how is it "Hands down" ?

I do agree Magic had a better TEAM Bball IQ with better Instincts but those alone does not make him better then Kobe.

Lets all be real if you are not over 40 you know shiit about 80's Basketball. I can pin point the haters Clearly in this tread especially the ones who pick Magic with no argument since they have none to begin with because they lack the knowledge and have Kobe hate take over them. Bottom line I only see two Legit post saying Magic was better and one of them is by Shaqattack but then again Shaqattack picked Nash over Iverson....[/QUOTE]

because there's other aspects besides just those two. And as anybody can tell you, Magic could control the game without his scoring and be more impactful than Kobe could dropping 40 pts.

And it aint as if Kobe was a great dominant defender either. I'm sure that the gap isn't as wide as Kobe fans want to make it. Sure, Magic wasn't as great of a one on one defender as Kobe, but Magic was good at helping and anticipating, somehow he just made the right play defensively.

And Magic handling the ball dropping 12 assists and 19 points is more dangerous offensively than Kobe due to the various mismatch problems he presents. His ability to not just create a shot for himself on anybody guarding him but also getting his teammates involved is more potent.

But if we wanna go ahead and start listing things that Magic is better than Kobe at doing... here we go:

Leadership
IQ
Rebounding
Passing
Help defense
Creating mismatch problems
Offensive impact

Kobe... can score better and defend better. Although the impact offensively isn't as great, and the impact defensively is marginal.

Get mad.

Kobe beat West and West Beat Oscar but I wonder if Kobe would've beaten Oscar.

Kobe Bryant wins on most advanced statistics... the ones that more accurately predict future outcomes for individuals and teams.

Magic himself has even said Kobe has surpassed him as the greatest Laker. Kobe is going to hold every Laker career record when it's all said and done.

[B]Kobe Bryant[/B] by a razor thin margin.

I already voted i just wanna explain
Kobe is a better individual player-he has one if the all time best scoring arsenal,he's a great shooter and also is a better man to man defender
Magic is a better passer and playmaker(although Kobe can make some great passes) and a better rebounder.
If you sum this up Kobe wins this not by a lot but still does BUT this is a GOAT list so you have to add inpact and awards ofc
MVP's-Magic 3 Kobe 1
FMVP's-Magic 3 Kobe 2
rings tie@ 5 but Kobe wasn't a big factor in the 1st one
Kobe has the edge on longetivity
But the thing is Magic left a bigger inpact-along with Bird and MJ he was the best player in maybe the best era of basketball,he made NBA more popular
And yeah Magic has some legendery playoff moments and games-Kobe not so much-the greatest moment he had is probably the gamewinner vs the Suns in 2006 and no realy legendery games in the finals while Magic has his skyhook vs Boston and.that 42 15 8 in game 6 of his 1st finals in wich he started as a C

Bean is a better:
Scorer
Shooter
Defender
Clutch
Leader
passer

how is magic better:roll:

[QUOTE=zay_24]Bean is a better:
Scorer
Shooter
Defender
Clutch
Leader
passer

how is magic better:roll:[/QUOTE]

lol, you're a funny guy.

[QUOTE=zay_24]Bean is a better:
Scorer
Shooter
Defender
Clutch
Leader
passer

how is magic better:roll:[/QUOTE]
Magic is just as clutch if not more clutch than Kobe
passer?Kobe is a good passer but Magic is just better
leader?Both are among all time greates leaders so this is arguable
Magic is also a better rebounder
Kobe
scorring
Shooting
defense

Magic
passing
rebounding


All other skills can go either way

Remember when Shaq left LA and Kobe struggled to keep the Lakers in the playoff rankings? I just can't imagine Magic being in that situation - he was too good.

Magic guaranteed championships. Just surround him with good finishers and defenders, and he'll do the rest.

This is an easy decision for me: [b]Magic Johnson[/b] gets my vote.

Magic's story in short:

Beats Bird in college, brings L.A. a championship, becomes a dick in his second season, redeems himself in his third with another championship, loses to Bird, then beats Bird, then beats Bird a third time to set matters straight, then wins a second in a row with a subpar Kareem(five by now), leads team to Finals without Kareem, wins an All Star MVP after retirement, plays in the Dream Team.

I won't go into details how "great" Kobe's story was, but it's not as magnificient as [B]Magic Johnson[/B]'s

[QUOTE=zay_24]Bean is a better:
Scorer
Shooter
Defender
Clutch
Leader
passer

how is magic better:roll:[/QUOTE]
Better defender, shooter, and scorer are the only ones that are true.

Bean Bryant

[B]Magic Johnson[/B]

[QUOTE=iamgine]Kobe beat West and West Beat Oscar but I wonder if Kobe would've beaten Oscar.[/QUOTE]
Good point. On this board, probably.

Just to add in my two cents.. although Magic may have been slightly the better playoff performer he was nearly a liability on the defensive end. Kobe on the other hand has made 11 all-defensive NBA teams and although some years may have been unwarranted his whole body of work as a defensive player is much more impressive than Magic's body of work as a defensive player.

If I had a vote I would put Kobe over Magic, as one poster put it: "by a razor thin margin".

[QUOTE=BlueandGold]Just to add in my two cents.. although Magic may have been slightly the better playoff performer he was nearly a liability on the defensive end. Kobe on the other hand has made 11 all-defensive NBA teams and although some years may have been unwarranted his whole body of work as a defensive player is much more impressive than Magic's body of work as a defensive player.[/QUOTE]
:rolleyes:

[QUOTE=BlueandGold]Just to add in my two cents.. although Magic may have been slightly the better playoff performer he was nearly a liability on the defensive end. Kobe on the other hand has made 11 all-defensive NBA teams and although some years may have been unwarranted his whole body of work as a defensive player is much more impressive than Magic's body of work as a defensive player.[/QUOTE]

Magic was bad at guarding PG's due to his size. That doesn't mean he couldn't guard other positions decently.

Magic Johnson was a really good help defender. Calling him a liability would be like calling Larry Bird a liability.

[QUOTE=WillC]Remember when Shaq left LA and Kobe struggled to keep the Lakers in the playoff rankings? I just can't imagine Magic being in that situation - he was too good.

Magic guaranteed championships. Just surround him with good finishers and defenders, and he'll do the rest.

This is an easy decision for me: [b]Magic Johnson[/b] gets my vote.[/QUOTE]

Reason #1 why Magic is also better then Michael Jordan...Jordan had 5 Losing seasons.....

[QUOTE=RobertdeMeijer]Magic's story in short:

Beats Bird in college, brings L.A. a championship, becomes a dick in his second season, redeems himself in his third with another championship, loses to Bird, then beats Bird, then beats Bird a third time to set matters straight, then wins a second in a row with a subpar Kareem(five by now), leads team to Finals without Kareem, wins an All Star MVP after retirement, plays in the Dream Team.

I won't go into details how "great" Kobe's story was, but it's not as magnificient as [B]Magic Johnson[/B]'s[/QUOTE]


Enters the NBA at 17 years old....wins the Dunk contest at 18, is a NBA Allstar at 19 years old, NBA Champion at 21 years old....at 22 is widely viewed as the NBA best allaround player (already a 1rst team all defensive team and a [B][SIZE="5"]29PPG 6REB 6AST playoff run under his belt[/SIZE][/B])...at 23 years old caps a 3 Peat on only the 3rd team in NBA History to do so....

By 24 years old puts up a scoring spree for the ages dropping 40 Point games not seen since Wilt Chamberlain....

at 26 years old he puts up what many consider the greatest scoring exhibition in NBA History...and probably the most iconic moment of his generation....to go along with one of the greatest offensive season's ever.

at 28 years old is finally named MVP after many years of deserving so.

at 29 years old wins his 4th NBA Championship....puts together one of the greatest Postseason runs ever.

at 30 is named the greatest player of his generation by a landslide....wins his 5th NBA Title in 7 NBA Finals in a 10 year span....for a decade average of 28PPG 6REB 5AST ...5X Champion in 7 NBA Finals...to go along with too many memorable moments to name....Kobe Bryant is according to most...

the greatest Laker of alltime.