Why Wilt Chamberlain would dominate in today's game ! Bruce Blitz

215lb for a center lol. Thats what a SG should weigh

[QUOTE=Fatstogie]
Naw im saying they are more into their craft. Back then there wasnt so many guys who were playing basketball their entire life. The whole league was "hey your big, you should come play basketball." Where as now they draft a kid who has been training his entire life to be a professional athlete.

Im not saying these guys werent good. they did not devote their entire lives to the game as guys do today. They werent eating the same. Working otu the same. They didnt have the same conditioning.[/quote]
The conditioning Wilt had was crazy. They played super fast ball back then and Wilt went after rebounds like crazy 24rpg, block shots like crazy while scoring 40ppg over 7 years. While playing as much as 4 back to backs with at least one coast to coast trip in there with at least a couple of 5 hour airport waits and staying in hotels with six foot beds?

Or as Kblaze said:
[I]"The reasons guys then had such insane numbers is how many posessions they had each game. You think it takes less energy to play 220 posessions than 160? And guys like Wilt, Russell, Hayes, and so on might play 45+ minutes a night. Just dragging up and down the court and extra 30+ times would wear out a lot of players now. Especially the bigger ones. You had guys like Wilt who were top flight quarter mile guys and Russell who was the worlds 7th rated high jumper and guys like Reed who lived on a farm for 20 years in Louisiana used to working all day. And they did it in shoes with no padding, drinking water not G series gatorade, and not having a trainer on the road and hottubs after every game. These guys might ride a bus 6 hours then get out take a nap and play a game in an arena with the heat not working as the 4th game of a back to back to back to back."[/I]

I don't get you putting Wilt in this era and not granting him the conditioning, diet, pampering and training of this era, as well as playing when he was young? Wilt would have the advantage of hiring Akeem to work on his moves as well. They called the game hard on Wilt so you would also have to include him being able to double pivot, hop, drop step, shuffle, employ a power game, have practice time, unlimited access to gyms, standard and uniform balls, gyms with level floors, shooting coaches, video coaches, bigman camp, left hand and dribble development camp, nutritionist, and superstar calls. Wilt today would look a lot better than he did awhile then."

[quote]
yea they had skill sure. But night in and night out? They couldnt hold up.

.Not quite. I mean basically sure. But your seeing a change. Dwight being just the prime example. These older bigmen. Yes they can score. Shooting is something someone can do or not. If htey can shoot sure they can shoot.

CAN THEY PLAY DEFENSE. no.
[/quote]
Wilt had incredible timing and endurance. Wilt would go after 20 blocks in a game. He could do that and still have crazy rebounding numbers. With today's training Wilt's jump would be even more combustible. You bring up Dwight but size and strength (Bynum and Yao) bothers him. Size, strength and athletism nevermind good timing, smarts and more energy.

[QUOTE=Fatstogie]No way. Old school players ar enot as strong [B]Wilt is stronger than any NBA player...when he was in his 50s[/B]. NOt as fast. [B]Russell and Chamberlain were track stars....they are definitely faster than Howard... [/B] Not as athletic. [B]:roll: :roll: :roll: Russell could jump higher than anyone in the NBA today.[/B]Not as conditioned. [B]That could be considered true...but present players wouldn't be as conditioned then either.[/B]Any player from before... 1990 would get dominated [B]I'd say any center from any era to play in the 60s, wouldn't be in consideration for the best center in the league. No one would be better than Russell or chamberlain.[/B]. Because today people prepare their bodies for their entire lives to play basketball.

They did not back then. This nostalgia is denying facts that todays athletes are FAR more athletic.

Dwight howard would stuff wilt over and over and over and over and over again. [B]:lol Howard has no strength compared to Wilt.[/B]

That shit wouldnt even be a fun 1 on 1 to watch. [B]I know, Howard would be crushed.[/B]


Your crazy. Stop being nostalgic. In 20 year swhen my generation is weaker, ill accept reality. Fact is wilt is not athletic enough.

Today there are 6' dudes whod rain points on oldschool dudes. They would destroy them.[/QUOTE]

:lol :lol :lol at your whhole post.

[QUOTE=Math2]:lol :lol :lol at your whhole post.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, no need to respond to him. He clearly is a prisoner of the moment fan and ignorance is bliss as well.

Are you serious? You're joking with these posts right?

Here's a Chamberlain tomahawk in 1960.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHAJjP6e6pg[/url]

Here's a clip of the guy getting higher than anybody else I ever saw in a game, and I've been watching the NBA since the mid-60s. Thats vertical leap, not a running leap.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EpVZS26BUs[/url]

Here's a clip of Wilt jamming on a guy just about LeBron's size named Gus Johnson. [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDEVzU6Qpu0[/url]

Here's a clip of Wilt blocking Kareem's skyhook twice in 5 seconds.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYq4CWeWaKg[/url]

Here's a clip of Chamberlain highlights in a college game. Check his speed by counting steps on the fast break at 1:10
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kB43A-ODuLc[/url]

Tell me when you see a center in today's league that can play defense like this. [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaXHYlPECcc[/url]

Do guys on this board honestly believe crap like this?
**************************************
Originally Posted by Fatstogie
No way. Old school players ar enot as strong. NOt as fast. Not as athletic. Not as conditioned. Any player from before... 1990 would get dominated. Because today people prepare their bodies for their entire lives to play basketball.

They did not back then. This nostalgia is denying facts that todays athletes are FAR more athletic.
**************************

That is just hilariously naive.

Chamberlain was bigger then, he'd be bigger now.

Competition?
Dwight Howard is same size as Willis Reed. NO WAY is Howard more skilled than Willis: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqeJp7OoPys[/url]

Kareem always said Nate Thurmond was the best defender he ever played against: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyPYVp9f4Ag[/url]

Oh wait I forgot - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar retired before 1990, so he couldn't even make it to todays league.............................. wow

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]Most centers now are perimeter players?[/QUOTE]

Maybe more like most centers are not fundamentally sound and are projects in today's NBA. Great athletes, but not very good basketball players.

Eh.. I think when you account for
Possesions/level of competition/weaker defensive schemes
and the fact that Wilt probably had a much bigger size advantage over his "average" opponent then someone like Oneal had in the 90's and early 00's then it makes sense why he was so Dominant.

Put him in todays games where he probably wouldnt be on a team where their entire 0ffensive strategy was simply to dump him the ball on every possesion and where he would be getting consistently bodyed up by 2-3 defenders especially if he forced the issue on 0ffense and the fact that those 2-3 defender would be much bigger and stronger then the kind of average players you had back then and I doubt he would be the same player.

I see Wilt being like a slightly superior Version of Duncan on 0ffense. Maybe 25-32ppg at his Peak on around 50% shooting.

He wasn't very efficient back then on 0ffense despite him usually having an enormous athletic/size advantage if he had to face better athletes today and be doubled and triple "far" more often then he was back then it would be difficult for him to sustain such volume and efficiency even in comparison to what he did back then.

I think his game would be less scoring but more defense/rebounding much like Duncan.

Like he was the second half of his career?

I continue to read this here...

[QUOTE]He wasn't very efficient back then on 0ffense despite him usually having an enormous athletic/size advantage if he had to face better athletes today [B]and be doubled and triple "far" more often then he was back then[/B] it would be difficult for him to sustain such volume and efficiency even in comparison to what he did back then[/QUOTE]

And yet we have this...

[url]http://biography.jrank.org/pages/2336/Chamberlain-Wilt.html[/url]

[QUOTE]Several of the rules of college basketball had to be changed as a result of Chamberlain's talents, which simply dwarfed those of previous players. [B]Opposing players double-and triple-teamed him and played a slowed-down game rather than attempt to confront Chamberlain's offensive skills head-on[/B]. These techniques helped the University of North Carolina defeat Kansas 54-53 in triple overtime in the 1957 championship game.

Such tactics also frustrated the rapidly developing Chamberlain, who startled the basketball world by turning professional rather than returning to Kansas for his senior year. NBA rules forbade him from joining the league until the year in which he would have graduated from college, so Chamberlain played for the razzle-dazzle touring professional team the Harlem Globetrotters during the 1958-59 season. He joined the Philadelphia Warriors in 1959, having already collected a large bonus for signing.

Individual Triumphs in NBA
Chamberlain was an NBA star from the beginning, leading the league in scoring and rebounding, and taking home honors not only for Rookie of the Year but also for Most Valuable Player. [B]Frustrated by defensive tactics similar to those he had faced in college, and by what he considered biased officiating, he threatened to leave the league and return to the Globetrotters in 1960. But he did not follow through on his threat, and soon learned to outmaneuver his tormentors through sheer size, speed, and skil[/B]l.


[/QUOTE]

and this...

[QUOTE]In Chamberlain's first year, and for several years afterward, opposing teams simply didn't know how to handle him. [B]Tom Heinsohn, the great Celtics forward who later became a coach and broadcaster, said Boston was one of the first clubs to apply a team-defense concept to stop Chamberlain[/B]. "We went for his weakness," Heinsohn told the Philadelphia Daily News in 1991, "tried to send him to the foul line, and in doing that he took the most brutal pounding of any player ever. [B]I hear people today talk about hard fouls. Half the fouls against him were hard fouls[/B]."
[/QUOTE]

and this...

[url]http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,940232,00.html[/url]

[QUOTE]He stood there, just to the right of the basket, a placid. 7-ft. 1 1/16-in, giant watching impassively as his teammates maneuvered the ball in backcourt. [B]The New York Knickerbockers tried to box him in; they clutched at his jersey, leaned against his chest, stepped on his toes. Then Wilt Chamberlain came alive[/B]. With the aplomb of a cop palming an apple, he reached out one massive hand and plucked the basketball out of the air. Spinning violently, he ripped clear of the elbowing surge, took a step toward the basket and jumped. [B]For an instant, he seemed suspended in midair, his head on a level with the 10-ft.-high basket[/B]. Slowly, gently, the ball dribbled off his fingertips, through the net, and the San Francisco Warriors went on to a 142-134 victory. New York Coach Ed Donovan sadly shook his head. [B]"He's phenomenal." he sighed. "How does anyone stop Wilt Chamberlain?"[/B]

[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,940232,00.html[/url]

[QUOTE]Most basketball stars have one great talent: Russell's is defense, Elgin Baylor's is shooting, Bob Cousy's is setting up plays and passing. [B]Chamberlain does almost everything, better than anyone else[/B]. He is the pros' fiercest rebounder, and his shooting repertory includes such inimitable specialties as the "Dipper Dunk" (in which he simply stretches up and lays the ball in the basket), the "Stuff Shot" (in which he jumps up and rams the ball through the net from above), [B]and the "Fadeaway Jump"

and this one...

[url]http://samcelt.forumotion.net/t2803-wilt-meets-bill-and-tommy-4000-words[/url]

[QUOTE]At 7

I am not saying Wilt didn't ever get doubled or tripled but from the majority of available footage I have seen from him I'd say 75+% he was guarded on M2M coverage.

Perhaps if the league would release all the available footage I would see that was simply just an anomaly and most cases he was not defended as such.

It's a shame Wilt didn't play in the media age so we could really see what he was made out of but instead we are forced to rely on often contradicting story's of him from the past from several writers that would be all but unknown by today's generation.

I dont deny Wilt's greatness only that I dont think he would easily be the best or even 2nd best player if you just magically dropped him into the 80's, 90's or 00's.

He'd "probably" be a Top 1-5 Player every year though in his Young and Prime dayz.

[QUOTE=32Dayz]I am not saying Wilt didn't ever get doubled or tripled but from the majority of available footage I have seen from him I'd say 75+% he was guarded on M2M coverage.

Perhaps if the league would release all the available footage I would see that was simply just an anomaly and most cases he was not defended as such.

It's a shame Wilt didn't play in the media age so we could really see what he was made out of but instead we are forced to rely on often contradicting story's of him from the past from several writers that would be all but unknown by today's generation.

I dont deny Wilt's greatness only that I dont think he would easily be the best or even 2nd best player if you just magically dropped him into the 80's, 90's or 00's.

He'd "probably" be a Top 1-5 Player every year though in his Young and Prime dayz.[/QUOTE]

I think it is possible he would be the best player, but he is not going to average 50ppg. That I is impossible today. But hey, he did do the "seemingly impossible" back in the day.

[QUOTE=32Dayz]I am not saying Wilt didn't ever get doubled or tripled but from [B]the majority of available footage I have seen from him I'd say 75+% he was guarded on M2M coverage.[/B]Perhaps if the league would release all the available footage I would see that was simply just an anomaly and most cases he was not defended as such.

It's a shame Wilt didn't play in the media age so we could really see what he was made out of but instead we are forced to rely on often contradicting story's of him from the past from several writers that would be all but unknown by today's generation.

I dont deny Wilt's greatness only that I dont think he would easily be the best or even 2nd best player if you just magically dropped him into the 80's, 90's or 00's.

He'd "probably" be a Top 1-5 Player every year though in his Young and Prime dayz.[/QUOTE]

Another poster here made that claim, using YouTube footage of the second half of game four of the '64 Finals, which was broken into four parts. Of course, he only used the first part.

I then provided the link to the second part, and in it, Wilt was doubled, tripled, or swarmed on nearly every possession.

And the fact was/is...we only have a portions of a HANDFUL of Wilt's 1200 games. And, unfortunately, while those games show a remarkable athlete, they are among the WORST games of Chamberlain's career.

The best response that I can give anyone that attempts to use that extremely limited footage as some kind of example is this...

When we ever get footage of just a few of Wilt's 271 40+ point games, then maybe we can get a better idea of just how really good this guy was.

I am onboard with you man I dont attempt to judge Chamberlain in an "absolute" sort of sense as I dont have the footage or enough information about him to do so.

I can only judge him based on various story's from different people many who say very different things about him and from the limited footage that is available of him.

Still I think of him highly, rank him highly on my GOAT List and think he would easily be a Top 5 Player in this generation.

[QUOTE=305Baller]I think it is possible he would be the best player, but he is not going to average 50ppg. That I is impossible today. But hey, he did do the "seemingly impossible" back in the day.[/QUOTE]

Scoring 50 ppg is "impossible" in every era, since no one else has ever done it in any other era as well.

[QUOTE=305Baller]I think it is possible he would be the best player, but he is not going to average 50ppg. That I is impossible today. But hey, he did do the "seemingly impossible" back in the day.[/QUOTE]


Nobody ever did this either:

[url]http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1079733/index.htm[/url]

Wilt had a quadruple double in the playoffs against the Celtics.

"Wilt Chamberlain had 24 points, 32 rebounds, 13 assists and blocked 12 shots."

[quote]
Wilt had a quadruple double in the playoffs against the Celtics.

"Wilt Chamberlain had 24 points, 32 rebounds, 13 assists and blocked 12 shots."[/quote] :applause:

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFrhKI63e80#t=6m30s[/url]

[I]In the first game Hal Greer tossed in 39 points, while Wilt Chamberlain had 24 points, 32 rebounds, 13 assists and blocked 12 shots.[/I]

[QUOTE=PHILA]:applause:

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFrhKI63e80#t=6m30s[/url]

[I]In the first game Hal Greer tossed in 39 points, while Wilt Chamberlain had 24 points, 32 rebounds, 13 assists and blocked 12 shots.[/I][/QUOTE]

BUT, Chamberlain only shot 6-10 from the line in that game (9-13 from the field.) Had he made all of ten of his FT's, his team would have won that game 131-113 instead of only 127-113.

That game probably cost Wilt 3-4 more rings.

[QUOTE=Sarcastic]Scoring 50 ppg is "impossible" in every era, since no one else has ever done it in any other era as well.[/QUOTE]
So true, when you think about it, 40ppg is impossible.

[QUOTE=La Frescobaldi]Nobody ever did this either:

[url]http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1079733/index.htm[/url]

Wilt had a quadruple double in the playoffs against the Celtics.

"Wilt Chamberlain had 24 points, 32 rebounds, 13 assists and blocked 12 shots."[/QUOTE]

Against the greatest defender ever and a great defensive team.

[QUOTE=Sarcastic]Scoring 50 ppg is "impossible" in every era, since no one else has ever done it in any other era as well.[/QUOTE]

When Wilt came into the league the scoring record was 29.2 ppg; the rebounding record was 23.0 rpg, and the FG% record was .490.

I wonder how many true fans of the game, in 1959, imagined a player averaging 50 ppg over an entire season, or scoring 100 points in a game, or ripping down 27 rpg in a season, or grabbing 55 rebounds in a game, or shooting .683 and even .727 in a season, or blocking 23 or 25 shots in a game, or having multiple quad-doubles.


Then, after Chamberlain "retired", following his 14 years in the league, no one has approached ANY of those marks since.

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]"There is a common belief that Wilt was so good because he played in an era where there was no competition or size to compete with Wilt. I am going to show that Wilt would dominate in today

[QUOTE=jlauber]When Wilt came into the league the scoring record was 29.2 ppg; the rebounding record was 23.0 rpg, and the FG% record was .490.

I wonder how many true fans of the game, in 1959, imagined a player averaging 50 ppg over an entire season, or scoring 100 points in a game, or ripping down 27 rpg in a season, or grabbing 55 rebounds in a game, or shooting .683 and even .727 in a season, or blocking 23 or 25 shots in a game, or having multiple quad-doubles.


Then, after Chamberlain "retired", following his 14 years in the league, no one has approached ANY of those marks since.[/QUOTE]

And no one ever will. CAuse the league was a joke back then and wilt was a freak.

Today? Everyone is a freak. So youll never see those numbers again becaues the league is much more difficult with much more talent. Even if he could score that many, no honky ass white teammates would stand around and watch.

People would not wanna play with him. CAuse theres more skill. Everyone can score now. His stats should almost get a *. If he played today hed be good.

BUT YOU ARE INA DREAM WORLD IF YOU THINK HES GETTING 100 POITNS. Would likely, RARELY, get 30.

And here are some other feats that are seldom brought up (except by myself and perhaps a few others)...

There have been 131 30-30 games in NBA history, and Chamberlain has 103 of them. Other than Wilt, there have been SIX 40-30 games in NBA history, ...while Chamberlain had 55 (and 17 of them came against Russell.) There have been eight 40-40 games in NBA history, and Wilt has ALL of them (including one against Russell.) There have been 27 50-30 games in the history of the NBA, and Chamberlain has 25 of them. There have been nine 60-30 games NBA history, and Wilt has SEVEN of them, including a 68-34 game, and a remarkable 73-36 game against 6-11 HOFer Walt Bellamy. There have been FOUR 50-40 games in NBA history, and Wilt has them ALL, including a 78-43 game.

Chamberlain also has the THREE highest "perfect games" in NBA history, with games of 15-15, 16-16, and 18-18. He also made 35 straight FGAs. He as THREE of the four highest FG%'s in a 60+ point game, and the highest mark of .829 in a game in which he scored 66 points on 29-35 shooting. He outshot the league by margins of .244 and .271 in '67 and '73. The highest "non-Wilt" mark is Artis Gilmore's .184 margin in the 80-81 season.

Chamberlain had 271 40+ point games in his career (including the only known 40 point game against 6-11 HOFer Nate Thurmond.) MJ is next with 173. Wilt had 118 50+ point games (including THREE against HOFer Willis Reed, and FIVE against Russell.) MJ is next with 31. Chamberlain had 32 60+ point games (including a 62 point game against Russell.) The rest of the entire NBA, in it's entire history... 30. MJ and Kobe are next with five each. There have been TEN 70+ point games in NBA history, and Chamberlain has SIX of them (including a 73 point game against HOFer Bellamy.)

There have been 28 40+ rebound games in NBA history, and Chamberlain has 15 of them, including the all-time record of 55, in a game in which he outrebounded Russell by a 55-19 margin.

There has only been one 20-20-20 game in NBA history, and, guess who has it? A 22 point, 25 rebound, 21 assist game BTW. And while there have been many triple-double games, how about a 53 point, 32 rebound, 14 assist game (and on 24-29 shooting from the field)?

Chamberlain had TWO separate streaks of 14 games in a row in which he scored 40+ points, and he averaged 53 and 54 ppg in those two streaks. He also had a streak of 126 straight 25+ point games, and another streak of 65 straight 30+ point games. Then there was his streak of 7 straight 50+ point games (and he holds the next three longest streaks of 6, 5, and 5.) And how about this streak...he scored 351 points in a span of five games, or 70 ppg!

The fact is, Wilt STILL holds some 130+ NBA records. And in many cases he holds the next best mark(s) as well. And many of them will never be approached, either (like playing 48.5 mpg in a season, or grabbing 55 rebounds in a game, or scoring 100 points in game, or averaging 50 ppg in a season, etc, etc.)

Wilt would average 9 TOs per game in todays league.

[QUOTE=Fatstogie]When wilt was playing? There werent guys on earth who were 5'6 and dunking. Now their are. So you no longer need the "stilt" to get to the rim. Hes too slow.

And players like Dwight would D his ass up.

Fact is more people are more athletic now. Its hwy the league has gotten smaller. Because a large guy taller than everyone just doesnt work anymore. And thats what wilt was.

If you look at the D hew as up against? Its a joke.[/QUOTE]

How about the 5-9 Calvin Murphy, who played college ball in the late 60's, and would be in the NBA for a number of seasons?

[url]http://apse.dallasnews.com/contest1999/writing/100-250.hartford2.html[/url]

[QUOTE]His first dunk came in the 10th grade.

He was 5-8.

"My hands were too small, so I couldn't palm the ball with one hand," he says. "One day I threw it off the backboard, went up, grabbed it with two hands and dunked it. It surprised me I was up that high. But yeah, it was something, a rush."

[/QUOTE]


Or 6-6 Gus Johnson, who was shattering backboards in the 60's?

[url]http://www.jockbio.com/Classic/Gus_Johnson/Gus_Johnson_bio.html[/url]

[QUOTE]As for Gus’s legacy at Idaho, that can be summed up in two words: The Nail. In 1963, he was hanging out with fellow students at the Corner Club. The conversation turned to his jumping ability. Just how high can you jump?, Gus was asked. He didn’t have an answer. He had never thought to measure his vertical leap. Gus was game right there and then. Flatfooted, in his street clothes, he exploded into the air and slapped a ceiling beam at a spot subsequently measured at 11’ 6”. Owner Herm Goetz hammered a nail into the beam at the spot and made it known that anyone who could repeat Gus’s feat would drink for free.

Over the years, countless Vandals, as well as visiting players, tried and failed to reach that nail. Among those who came up short was seven-footer Bill Walton. Finally, in 1986, Joey Johnson (younger brother of Dennis Johnson) reached the nail. Johnson was a legendary leaper who could touch his chin to a regulation rim. Corner Club denizens were quick to point out that the nail was merely a “starting point.” Gus once plucked a coin off the top of an NBA backboard, some 13 feet off the floor.

[/QUOTE]

David Thompson?

[url]http://www.apbr.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2124[/url]

[QUOTE]But by the time he was a 5-7 eighth-grader, Thompson could dunk.

[/QUOTE]

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Manigault[/url]

[QUOTE]Manigault was particularly famous for his leaping abilities on the basketball court, including his signature move - the double dunk. He would dunk the ball, catch it with his left hand, switch the ball to his right hand, bring it back around to the top of the basket and jam it through again, all done while still in the air on a single jump, and without hanging on the rim.[2] Like other street basketballers of the day such as Jackie Jackson, Earl was reportedly able to touch the top of the backboard to retrieve quarters and dollar bills, part of "elaborate innovations and tricks" elite street players of the era performed before games to help build their reputations.[3] He was only 6'1", but wore ankle weights constantly during practice as a child which helped him to build up tremendous jumping ability. He once dunked two-handed during a game from near the foul line over two players much taller than himself (Sahil Muliyil 5'8", David Urenda 5'9").[3] He once reverse dunked 36 times in a row to win a $60 bet.[4]

But to prove dunking was not his only skill, he would practice hundreds of shots each day, making him a deadly long-range shooter as well. Manigault played with some of the best players of his day, such as Earl Monroe, Connie Hawkins, and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, the latter of whom went as far as calling Manigault the greatest player he had ever seen. When Abdul-Jabbar finished his career with the Los Angeles Lakers and had his number retired at the Los Angeles Forum, he was asked who was the greatest player he had played with or against. After a long silence, he answered, "That would have to be 'The Goat'".[5]

[/QUOTE]


How about a 6-4 WHITE guy back in the 40's?

[url]http://www.apbr.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1821[/url]

[QUOTE]Jim Pollard has been called pro basketball's first power forward. He stood 6-5, a human pogo stick gifted with a 42-inch vertical leap. It's been said he could swipe quarters off the top of the backboard and slam-dunk from the free-throw line. Back then, dunking was considered poor sportsmanship, so Pollard reduced his throwdowns to a novelty act.[/QUOTE]



I could go on, but CLEARLY, there were GREAT leapers long before Jordan came along.

[QUOTE=jlauber]How about the 5-9 Calvin Murphy, who played college ball in the late 60's, and would be in the NBA for a number of seasons?

[url]http://apse.dallasnews.com/contest1999/writing/100-250.hartford2.html[/url][/QUOTE]

Calvin joined the league like 11 years after Chamberlain arrived and the average guard in Wilt's statistical prime didn't have jumping ability of Murphy. And being 5-9 and able to dunk is not anything impressive really, I was 13 and 6-1 first time I dunked and I would look like a joke next to the beasts of the modern era..

[QUOTE=jlauber]
Or 6-6 Gus Johnson, who was shattering backboards in the 60's?

[url]http://www.jockbio.com/Classic/Gus_Johnson/Gus_Johnson_bio.html[/url][/QUOTE]

Being a 6'6 dunker is not impressive. And we all know how shitty those backboards really were..
And haha, are we supposed to believe that Dennis Johnson's brother could put his chin above the ring..:facepalm

[QUOTE=jlauber]
David Thompson?

[url]http://www.apbr.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2124[/url][/QUOTE]

Thompson joined the league 17 years after Chamberlain..

[QUOTE=jlauber]

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Manigault[/url][/QUOTE]

And again you trust everything you read, sure, Manigault could dunk the ball twice before landing..:facepalm

[QUOTE=jlauber]
I could go on, but CLEARLY, there were GREAT leapers long before Jordan came along.[/QUOTE]

Yes, but it's a fact that Chamberlain played in a way less athletic league...

[QUOTE]Calvin joined the league like 11 years after Chamberlain arrived and the average guard in Wilt's statistical prime didn't have jumping ability of Murphy. And being 5-9 and able to dunk is not anything impressive really, I was 13 and 6-1 first time I dunked and I would look like a joke next to the beasts of the modern era..

[/QUOTE]..

Murphy was in ninth grade and was 5-8, and he dunked with TWO hands.


[QUOTE]Being a 6'6 dunker is not impressive. And we all know how shitty those backboards really were..
And haha, are we supposed to believe that Dennis Johnson's brother could put his chin above the ring[/QUOTE]

Disprove it.


[QUOTE]Thompson joined the league 17 years after Chamberlain..
[/QUOTE]

Thompson was in the ABA in '75. Wilt retired from the NBA in '73. And BTW, a 37 year old Wilt was the HIGHEST leaper on the '74 Conquistadors. Incidently, when Thompson was a 5-7 8th grader in 1966, he was dunking the ball.

[QUOTE]And again you trust everything you read, sure, Manigault could dunk the ball twice before landing[/QUOTE]

So does that mean you think he would just be an average leaper in today's game? You are pathetic.



[QUOTE]Yes, but it's a fact that Chamberlain played in a way less athletic league...[/QUOTE]

That's why James White is a completely worthless NBA player, and players like 6-9 Kevin Love RUNS AWAY with the rebounding title, a 37 year old 6-2 Steve Nash wins the assist title, and a 7-0 white guy wins the blocked shot title.


And before someone come's back and claims that Wilt was not dominating the league in the 70's like he did in the 60's...

Chamberlain LED the NBA in rebounding in nearly EVERY season, including by solid margins in his last two seasons, and then he averaged a whopping 22.5 rpg in his LAST post-season, and covering 17 games. The next best mark since? Kareem's 17.3 rpg in '77.

Wilt also shot .649 and an eye-popping .727 from the floor in his last two seasons, the latter being a record that will be broken.

As late as 1969, Chamberlain hung TWO 60+ point games (in a league that averaged 112 ppg.) He also pounded Russell with a 35 point game, and in another game against him that season, he outrebounded him, 42-18. He was LEADING the NBA in scoring at the start of the 69-70 season, at 32.2 ppg and on 60% shooting, when he went down with his devastating knee injury. Included in those nine games, were games of 37 on 7-0 Tom Boerwinkle, a 38 point game on reigning MVP Wes Unseld, a 43 point game on Bob Rule (look him up, he was an outstanding player.)Even then, and at nowhere near 100%, he averaged 23.2 ppg, 24.1 rpg, and shot .625 in a seven game Finals, which included a 45 point, 20-27 shooting, 27 rebound "must-win" game six.

In his 70-71 season, at 34 years of age, and only a year removed from major knee surgery, he battled Kareem in TEN H2H games, and over the course of those games, Kareem averaged 26 ppg to Wilt's 23, but Wilt outrebounded him 17.6 pg to 15.6 rpg, and outshot him, .490 to .454.

In his 71-72 season, he hung TWO 30-30 games, including a 31-32 game against 6-11 HOFer Bob Lanier. In fact, he averaged 29 ppg against Lanier that season in FIVE H2H games.

In Wilt's LAST season, he faced a PRIME Kareem in six H2H games, and outshot Abdul Jabbar over that span by an incredible .737 to .450 margin, including one game in which he outscored Kareem, 24-21, while outshooting him, 10-14 to 10-27. In the playoffs, he outrebounded Thurmond, 23.6 rpg to 17.2 rpg, while outshooting Nate, .550 to .398. In his LAST GAME, he hung a 23 point, on 9-16 shooting, 21 rebound game on HOFer Willis Reed.

[QUOTE=Fatstogie]And no one ever will. CAuse the league was a joke back then and wilt was a freak.

Today? Everyone is a freak. So youll never see those numbers again becaues the league is much more difficult with much more talent. Even if he could score that many, no honky ass white teammates would stand around and watch.

People would not wanna play with him. CAuse theres more skill. Everyone can score now. His stats should almost get a *. If he played today hed be good.

BUT YOU ARE INA DREAM WORLD IF YOU THINK HES GETTING 100 POITNS. Would likely, RARELY, get 30.[/QUOTE]

************************************
[I][B]Kobe Bryant scored 81 points and sat out 6 minutes. the league was a joke back then and Kobe was a freak[/B][/I].
************************************

Today? Everyone is a freak. So youll never see those numbers again becaues the league is much more difficult with much more talent. Even if he could score that many, no (hmmm how about lumbering Euro-League honkyass guys?) teammates would stand around and watch.

People would not wanna play with him. CAuse theres more skill. Everyone can score now. His stats should almost get a *. If he played today hed be good.

BUT YOU ARE INA DREAM WORLD IF YOU THINK HES GETTING 81 POITNS. Would likely, RARELY, get 30.

***
Even Jordan couldn't get 70. so in today's league nobody can get 81, the league is too good .

[QUOTE=La Frescobaldi]************************************
[I][B]Kobe Bryant scored 81 points and sat out 6 minutes. the league was a joke back then and Kobe was a freak[/B][/I].
************************************

Today? Everyone is a freak. So youll never see those numbers again becaues the league is much more difficult with much more talent. Even if he could score that many, no (hmmm how about lumbering Euro-League honkyass guys?) teammates would stand around and watch.

People would not wanna play with him. CAuse theres more skill. Everyone can score now. His stats should almost get a *. If he played today hed be good.

BUT YOU ARE INA DREAM WORLD IF YOU THINK HES GETTING 81 POITNS. Would likely, RARELY, get 30.

***
Even Jordan couldn't get 70. so in today's league nobody can get 81, the league is too good .[/QUOTE]


I will rep you when I can...

And once again, you would never see a 6-9 WHITE guy leading the NBA in rebounding in TODAY's NBA. Nor a 6-3 37 year old WHITE guy leading TODAY's NBA in assists. Nor a 7-0 WHITE guy leading TODAY's NBA in blocked shots. Nor a WHITE guy winning the FMVP.

Nor would you see a 6-6 CENTER in TODAY's NBA (like say a Chuck Hayes for instance.) Nor would you have seen a 6-7 CENTER leading the league in rebounding, TWICE, and winning DPOY's as recently as a few year's ago.

All of that would be an IMPOSSIBILITY in TODAY's NBA.

He'd be the best center in the league today, however he wouldn't post better numbers than a prime Shaq.

[QUOTE=jlauber]I will rep you when I can...

And once again, you would never see a 6-9 WHITE guy leading the NBA in rebounding in TODAY's NBA. Nor a 6-3 37 year old WHITE guy leading TODAY's NBA in assists. Nor a 7-0 WHITE guy leading TODAY's NBA in blocked shots. Nor a WHITE guy winning the FMVP.[/QUOTE]

You keep trolling about Love and his rebounding and that he's 6'9 and white. You easily tend to forget that a freaking 6'5 SF in Baylor had 3 seasons where he averaged more rebounds than what Love who lead the league this year in rebounding averaged..

And it's funny, Nash should be judged based on his skillset, not is physical abilities. And Ibaka lead the NBA in blocked shots([url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/blk_progress.html)[/url], not Bogut although Bogut had a higher average but he also missed games.

And your beloved white guy who won the finals MVP happens to be one of the most skilled PF's of all-time and his skillset is nothing but amazing. It's not about colour you idiot, it's about skillset.

The reason why people mock your beloved white players from the 50's and 60's is because most of them lacked both in skillset and athletisism. Are you gonna claim that Nash isn't skilled? That Love isn't skilled and that Nowitzki ain't skilled?:facepalm

[QUOTE=jlauber]

Nor would you see a 6-6 CENTER in TODAY's NBA (like say a Chuck Hayes for instance.) Nor would you have seen a 6-7 CENTER leading the league in rebounding, TWICE, and winning DPOY's as recently as a few year's ago.

All of that would be an IMPOSSIBILITY in TODAY's NBA.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, because we have so many 6-6 centers in today's NBA..:facepalm
And your beloved Chuck Hayes is the worst starting center in the league and he's only getting the playing time he recieves because of Yao being injured..:facepalm

Did Wilt ever shatter or pull down a backboard?

With his power and those weak back boards they used to have you'd think he would have pulled down a whole bunch.

[QUOTE=32Dayz]Did Wilt ever shatter or pull down a backboard?

With his power and those weak back boards they used to have you'd think he would have pulled down a whole bunch.[/QUOTE]

I've thought about this as well..
We've heard stories about how strong he was and that he was so strong that he carried two men on each arm to slam the ball home with 2 hands and that he broke one players toe by slamming a basketball on it but still, no shattered backboards?

MY GOD, even 6-6 Gus Johnson shattered backboards...

But it's okey, after all, Wilt could dunk from the FT-line without a running start according to Jlauber so he had something else to be proud of..

[QUOTE=millwad]
But it's okey, after all, Wilt could dunk from the FT-line without a running start according to Jlauber[/QUOTE]

:oldlol: :roll:

People weren't interested in that back then. Who would want to ruin a game like that

You know what? My grandpa once told me he saw Wilt jump down from the top of the statue of liberty. True story! :rolleyes:

Can't believe some people believe everything they read just because Wilt is their favorite player.... :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

I don't know the myths on ish about Wilt dunking free throws.... but here is some fact.

Interview with of Tex Winter, Kansas State basketball coach back in the 50s, talking about being chair of the Coaches Rules committee, and going to see Chamberlain as a freshman at KU.

You may or may not know, but K State - KU is a terrific rivalry.......... so for Tex to come up with some rules that would stop the arch-rival is, well, typical college operations.

The whole interview is awesome, the Chamberlain talk starts about 3:15

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyz-FhP2ONk[/url]

Kind of like a Bill of Attainder lol "legislating" against Chamberlain.

Of course, no video footage, so it never happened right

[QUOTE=La Frescobaldi]I don't know the myths on ish about Wilt dunking free throws.... but here is some fact.

Interview with of Tex Winter, Kansas State basketball coach back in the 50s, talking about being chair of the Coaches Rules committee, and going to see Chamberlain as a freshman at KU.

You may or may not know, but K State - KU is a terrific rivalry.......... so for Tex to come up with some rules that would stop the arch-rival is, well, typical college operations.

The whole interview is awesome, the Chamberlain talk starts about 3:15

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyz-FhP2ONk[/url]

Kind of like a Bill of Attainder lol "legislating" against Chamberlain.

Of course, no video footage, so it never happened right[/QUOTE]

Wilt, himself claimed that he accomplished that feat quite often. BUT, because there was no video footage of, the handful of "anti-Wilt" posters here naturally dismissed it. NOW, we have TEX WINTER confirming that fact.

SONNY HILL claimed that he witnessed Wilt touching the top of the backboard. The "Wilt-haters" dismissed it. It was impossible. No one else has done it. Not even James White. YET, we now have video footage of Chamberlain, while at KU, with his hand very near the top of the backboard...in a jump in which he goes straight up, and without benefit of a running start. We also have FOOTAGE of a 34 year old Wilt, at 300+ lbs., and only a year removed from major knee surgery, ...again, going straight up, with no running start, and his hand reaches above the square, or nearly 12 ft.

Of course, the "Wilt-bashers" will say...see, he couldn't do it.

Which gets me to my point on the 6-6 Gus Johnson, who some have claimed could touch the top of the backboard. We obviously don't have the VIDEO FOOTAGE, but here is what we do KNOW. He made a straight up leap, and touched a nail at the 11' 6" mark. On the surface, that doesn't seem so incredible. After all, we have had NBA players touch the 12' 6" mark.

HOWEVER, it took all that the 6-4 Joey Johnson could do, to equal that mark. So what you ask...or as Millwad chimed in with this:

[QUOTE]Being a 6'6 dunker is not impressive. And we all know how shitty those backboards really were..
[B]And haha, are we supposed to believe that Dennis Johnson's brother could put his chin above the ring[/B][/QUOTE]

I bet Millwad never saw Joey Johnson play, even though he was dunking on 11'-7" baskets back in the 90's. Or that he had a measured vertical of 52".

[url]http://tucsoncitizen.com/wildaboutazcats/2010/07/25/johnsons-potential-literally-through-the-roof/[/url]

[QUOTE]Joey Johnson, a former ASU player, was once measured with a 52-inch vertical leap. That measures to 4 feet, 4 inches. The elder Johnson was listed at 6 feet, 3 inches, during his playing days. Add that up: Just by him leaping, the top of his head could go to 10 feet, 7 inches. The standard height of basketball rim is 10 feet.


He dunked a basketball in 1993 on a rim hoisted 11 feet, 7 inches, which was a world record until Harlem Globetrotters Michael “Wild Thing” Wilson and Sean “Elevator” Williams dunked a ball on an 11-8 rim in 1996.

[/QUOTE]

Think about that. Joey Johnson with his head easily above the rim, had a difficult time, in 1988, touching the same nail that Gus Johnson touched in 1963.

And, that again brings us back to Wilt. We KNOW that with a standing leap, Wilt could nearly touch 13 ft. If Johnson's standing leap could only go slightly above 11' 6", just how high would a Wilt, with a running start, have topped out at?

At least we can finally put an end to the idiotic "anti-Wilt" clan continually denying what so MANY have claimed in the last 50+ years.

Incidently, as a sidenote about long-jumping...Bob Beamon jumped 29' 2" in 1968. That record stood until 1991, when Mike Powell jumped 29' 4"...which is STILL the record. So, in the last 40+ years, we have seen the long jump "jump" by a measely TWO INCHES. Kind of puts a different perspective on the athletes of the 60's and those of even today (who have all the advantages of modern technology.)


Which brings me to this guy...

[QUOTE]Can't believe some people believe everything they read just because Wilt is their favorite player[/QUOTE]

Most rational Chamberlain posters, and I am certainly in that category, have claimed that Wilt was capable of around a 42" vertical leap, and a 500+ bench press. (The "non-rational" Wilt fans will point out that the internet is loaded with accounts of Wilt with a 50+ vertical, or 550-600 lb. bench press.) We will probably never see any kind of footage confirming Wilt's bench, but we have first hand accounts of him doing it. We also have articles as early as 1964 claiming he was benching 425 lbs, and an eye-witness account of him benching 465 at age 59. And the net is plastered with a TON of accounts of his incredible strength.

As for the vertical, we now HAVE the footage's which show his phenomenal leaping ability. Of course, he was a HIGH JUMP champion, and with horrible form, and doing it PART TIME. He was also a 7-2 man, with a measured 7-8 wingspan, that was a LONG JUMPER, and a TRIPLE JUMPER at KU (as well as a SPRINTER.) In Wilt's first book, there is also a photo of him, playing volleyball sometime in the late 60's or early 70's, in which his waist is above the top of the net. Sportswriter George Kiseda measured a Wilt vertical leap at 42." We have SONNY HILL and TEX WINTER backing up his own claims.

AND, as I have LONG maintained here...where are all of those that actually saw Chamberlain play, who would DISPUTE these staggering claims? Wilt played with HUNDREDS, if not THOUSANDS of different players in his career, and even after his NBA days. He was coached by SEVERAL coaches, and there were DOZENS of coaches who coached against him. He was followed by MANY members of the media. And his game was watched by perhaps MILLIONS of fans in his career. Where are those that would CHALLENGE the MANY astonishing physical feats that were attributed to Wilt? I have never read one LEGITIMATE eye-witness account that claimed that Wilt could not touch the top of the backboard, or bench 500 lbs.


There are the few that have scoffed at the idea that Wilt had a good outside shot. After all, he was a poor FT shooter (of course, Bruce Bowen won the 3pt title in a season in which he shot .404 from the line, too.) BUT, we had a HOF coach, and not one of Wilt's, who witnessed it.

And then, in the last few months, new VIDEO footage, as well as deleted old footage, has surfaced which CLEARLY shows Chamberlain hitting MANY shots from 12-15+ feet.

Hopefully one day, we will get some full games from perhaps a few of his 271 40+ point games, too.

In any case, one thing is becoming quite clear...it is getting worse-and-worse everyday, to be a "Wilt-basher."

I definitely dont think it would be illogical to think a Young/Skinny Wilt could touch the top of the back board.

With his length + hops it should be possible.

I dont think we can say for certain if he could or couldn't without more video of Young Wilt but believing he could is not stupid.

It's obvious though "based on what we know and have seen so far" that for someone of his size he had some of the greatest hops ever.

Even Young Kareem I believe mentioned how even older Wilt had tremendous hops which helped him when he attempted to defend his Sky-Hook.