There is some discussion going on about what if John Teller is still alive?
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There is some discussion going on about what if John Teller is still alive?
From recent blog posted by Kurt Sutter:
[QUOTE]As I close in on writing the last three episodes of the season, I am beginning to clearly see the final act of Sons. This awareness took me back to the Hamlet archetype that inspired the show and I'm trying to envision how much of the series will eventually come back around to that homage.
Some. I think.
There are big character shifts in season four. We knock people off the fence and we make them choose. The finale for season four will feel like a series end in a lot of ways, but the truth is, it will create a new beginning. The beginning of the end. Season five and six, if I'm lucky enough to get, will explore that new dynamic. Season seven will be all about the fall of heroes and the rise of men.
As far as potential shit I may actually steal from the Bard, it comes down to themes. I will definitely continue to play out the ghost of Hamlet's father theme, the conflicted son theme and the plotting mother theme. As well as some others. And there may even be a few narrative lifts from the Shakespearean playbook as well.
I won't spoil those. I can tell you this, the show doesn't end in a pool of blood with all players dead.
That will happen in season six... just kidding. I think.
And in light of my recent social media extraction, I thought I'd leave you with this from Act 1, scene 3:
"Give thy thoughts no tongue."[/QUOTE]
Something just doesn't add up with Clay and the letters and everything. I mean you would think that if he thought he was in any sort of real danger with Jax possibly finding out about the letters that he would run off. There's no way he can think he can just have Tara get taken out and Jax won't suspect something.
[QUOTE=ConanRulesNBC]Something just doesn't add up with Clay and the letters and everything. I mean you would think that if he thought he was in any sort of real danger with Jax possibly finding out about the letters that he would run off. There's no way he can think he can just have Tara get taken out and Jax won't suspect something.[/QUOTE]
If Tara does get taken out then Clay needs to take out Unser and probably Piney as well. Unser will not keep quiet about that and Piney after already losing his daughter in law would not stand for it either. Really now that I think of it after everyone finding out about Donna, the whole club may be suspicous of Clay and if they think he purposely had Tara killed I don't think even Tig would stand by him.
Clay is not the type to ever run off though, and even if he did, he's got no where to go and nothing else to do. At least if Jax ran for somethign he could take Tara with him but Clay couldn't let all this get out and then expect Jemma to follow him, she would ultimately side with Jax over Clay.
[QUOTE=Thorpesaurous]Clay will have to divert the blame for this stuff to someone else, just like he did with Opie's wife in blaming the 69ers.
I could see him rallying the club around the notion of this competitor cartel coming after them. Admitting some mistake in getting involved, and keeping his history hidden away for some time further. I fully expect Piney to get it soon.
I sort of like the idea of Juice dieing here. It makes the show feel more dangerous, as if fewer people are safe. [B]But I have a feeling he'll somehow survive. Chibs and Tig may make it there just in time. Then they'll have to question where all his guilt is coming from. [/B]
Impetious move by Bobby, albeit ballsy. The only person he has to know will side with him is Piney. I can't imagine someone voting against him for the simple fact of retribution should he not be ousted.[/QUOTE]
I really thought Juice had died until reading the episode description where it says 'Juice is cornered by Linc Potter's scheme and [B]attempts [/B]to commit suicide by the end of the episode.'
Also, if you look up the actor who plays Juice, Theo Rossi, he has no other projects going on right now and usually if someone is being killed off in a show for good you can already see them working on a new show or something.
New episode in 2 hours. I wouldn't be surprised if Clay hired those Mexicans to shoot up up the Mayans just to make it seem as if "another" cartel is pissed off at them, hence finding an excuse to take Tara out of the picture.
[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing]New episode in 2 hours. I wouldn't be surprised if Clay hired those Mexicans to shoot up up the Mayans just to make it seem as if "another" cartel is pissed off at them, hence finding an excuse to take Tara out of the picture.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Location: California[/QUOTE]
:applau:(
All I have to say is... HOLY CRAP! I did not see that coming.
Can someone explain what happened in the first 15 minutes, in white text perhaps? I started watching when the sheriff went to the club and let them know he knew about the threat on Tara's life.
I am very upset with myself. Passed out right before the show started and caught the last 5 mins.
Downloading it currently so I can re-watch, but yeah, wow.
That felt inevitable to me.
So what's next. Opie knows Jax was going up there to check in on Piney. Gemma knows Clay wasn't where he said he was.
Do they play this into suspicion of Jax from Opie? Does Jax's denial make Gemma question where Clay really was that night?
[QUOTE=Thorpesaurous]That felt inevitable to me.
So what's next. Opie knows Jax was going up there to check in on Piney. Gemma knows Clay wasn't where he said he was.
Do they play this into suspicion of Jax from Opie? Does Jax's denial make Gemma question where Clay really was that night?[/QUOTE]
Good questions. I kept wondering if Clay was going to try to clean up the scene and disappear Piney or leave him there and spin it off like the Cartel got to him. Or maybe even cut Piney's head off since that seems to be the cartels style.
Clay is entering dangerous territory though. In the past when he has done stuff like kill Donna at least he could justify his actions to people, now he is just doing things solely for him, I don't even think Tig will back him up on any of this.
All around good episode though. A lot of action while keeping Charming involved as well with the fundraiser.
So Whats going to happen with Juice? You can tell all along that Chibs has known something is up with him. Chibs would probably be the most likely to forgive Juice since he almost gave up info to the Feds in season 3.
:bowdown: :bowdown: clay is a straight goon, ***** fuked up opies life
Just watched it. Best episode of the season so far. Shocked at what Clay did, but there's so much chaos now between the club, the town, and the cartel that I don't expect any less at this point. Next week should be good.
[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing]Just watched it. Best episode of the season so far. Shocked at what Clay did, but there's so much chaos now between the club, the town, and the cartel that I don't expect any less at this point. Next week should be good.[/QUOTE]
:applause:
[QUOTE=dkmwise]Good questions. I kept wondering if Clay was going to try to clean up the scene and disappear Piney or[B] leave him there and spin it off like the Cartel got to him.[/B] Or maybe even cut Piney's head off since that seems to be the cartels style. [/QUOTE]
Yeah, I think this is it. If you noticed after Clay killed him, he took Piney's blood and wrote LS on an old club photo. I'm pretty sure that LS is the same cartel they're said to be at war with.
[QUOTE=Positive]Yeah, I think this is it. If you noticed after Clay killed him, he took Piney's blood and wrote LS on an old club photo. I'm pretty sure that LS is the same cartel they're said to be at war with.[/QUOTE]
Oh thats right I forgot about that.
Some of the club members are going to realize it wasn't the cartel. That is just not their style. To break the door in and then wrestle with Piney, grab the shotgun that Piney is always carrying around there, and then shoot him with his own gun. Those cartel guys are surgical, they would send multiple guys there and would use their own guns. Well, they probably wouldn't waste their time going after one alone old guy anyway, and defiently wouldn't just kill him and leave him, they need to put on a show with it.
I keep going back and forth on whether or not this will be Clay's last season. There's just too much crap he's gotten himself into and even if he does have Tara taken out, Gemma and Unser know what's going on. I think it comes down to Gemma. If she gets tired of Clay then you know he's gone by the end of this season.
But at the same time what is Sutter going to do with 3 more seasons if he ends the Jax/Clay feud this season? I think at the most there would be enough drama for one season (final season) without Clay and have the season be about Jax and Opie finally taking control of the club and taking it in their own direction.
I just really wonder what is going to happen the next 5 episodes this season and if/how Sutter can keep Clay around after this season.
[QUOTE=ConanRulesNBC]I keep going back and forth on whether or not this will be Clay's last season. There's just too much crap he's gotten himself into and even if he does have Tara taken out, Gemma and Unser know what's going on. I think it comes down to Gemma. If she gets tired of Clay then you know he's gone by the end of this season.
But at the same time what is Sutter going to do with 3 more seasons if he ends the Jax/Clay feud this season? I think at the most there would be enough drama for one season (final season) without Clay and have the season be about Jax and Opie finally taking control of the club and taking it in their own direction.
I just really wonder what is going to happen the next 5 episodes this season and if/how Sutter can keep Clay around after this season.[/QUOTE]
I agree, if this isn't Clay's last season then it's because of a cliffhanger and he gets wrapped up next season.
They have already made it very clear that Clay can't stay in the club more than a year since he won't be able to ride due to his grip and he says he won't have surgery on his hands. So his time is clearly limited, and it's doubtful they will just have him cash out and walk away and retire peacefully.
So I think the main question is just how will he go out? Right now there are so many people who you could see taking him out. Obviously Jax over JT or Tara, Opie over Donna or Piney, possibly Gemma for a number of reasons. Bobby is mad at him now, Tig has a strange thing with Gemma that could somehow lead to a beef with Clay, you've got the Cartel thing and the Indian Reserve guys that Clay lied to.
But with Clay gone they will need someone else to step up fill in the show. They have made references that JT may actually not be dead.
These next 5 episodes are going to be very interesting.
[QUOTE=california123]:bowdown: :bowdown: clay is a straight goon, ***** fuked up opies life[/QUOTE]
That's actually a good point. Clay did murder two people close to Opie, plus he has a hit out on Tara. He supposedly killed JT. He's being challenged for his President position. He's ruining a lot of peoples lives, including his own.
Now I understand why he wants this money from the cartel, he's thinking about disappearing IMO.
Also the Piney thing was expected but once Clay left his house, he had me thinking pretty hard. then he aggressively knocked Piney to the floor using the door.....at that point I was sure in my original thoughts. He had me guessing though, pretty smart.
Clay doesn't seem to listen to Gemma either, which would cause problems between them two and she knows a lot about what Clay did, which could only further hurt him when it comes to the club.
Anyway seeing as Clay already took 1/2 of the people he wants dead out, he's after Tara now, who is about to be on the run.
I hope Opie, Jax finds out about Clay....getting tired of seeing him in the show though he kind of does keep things interesting in a twisted way.
[QUOTE=ConanRulesNBC]These next 5 episodes are going to be very interesting.[/QUOTE]
Yeah. I wish they would have them twice a week instead of once a week. :cry:
I don't think they'll get rid of Clay this season, I think he'll go towards the end of the show , by jax or Opie.
I like Clay, does what he wants, and doesn't care what anyone thinks. Ron's a great actor also.
You must've seen Clay killing Piney. When Piney first went up to Clay about those letters, and said "get out of the drug business, with the cartel, or I'll expose you" you knew Clay would finish him.
Love this show, favourite tv at the moment.
If I'm Chief Unser....i'm getting the hell out of Dodge cause I'm next
[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing]If I'm Chief Unser....i'm getting the hell out of Dodge cause I'm next[/QUOTE]
Yeah, as soon as he burned those papers you knew he was in trouble. Then leaving the note for Tara and telling the Sherrifs about it. Sorry Wayne, but it's over.
So Clay blew it. He had Gemma talk to Tara who really did seem serious about not telling Jax about the letters. Gemma and Unser helped cover up what happened with Piney and Clay still made the phone call at the end.
But now it's going to blow back in his face because Jax went with Tara.
Also, I can't believe Juice would agree to work with the sheriff and Potter after coming clean to Chibbs. Though, I don't think Juice told Chibbs about his father.
4 more episodes left.
Will Tara survive?
Will Clay survive?
Will Jax survive?
Will Juice survive?
How will they get out of the deal with the cartel?
Doesn't make sense for Clay to pick up that phone and call. It's worse for Clay. Jax will hate him even more thinking that it was his coke deal that had Tara killed.
The scene where Jax threatened Clay about talking like that about Tara reminded me of season 2 when Clay threatened Jax about mentioning Donna. The roles have been reversed. When Clay threatened Jax he was still in complete control of the club. Now the entire club would back Jax over Clay.
Also, what is up with Potter? Sutter is really keeping him still sort of a mystery. First off he looks a lot like JT. Second, until tonight he kept his identity a secret from all the club members. Now when he was talking to Juice he was saying his main concern is with the IRA and not about the club. The way he even said it made it seem like he almost wants the club to go back to being a regular MC once they get out of the gun business.
[QUOTE=ConanRulesNBC]The scene where Jax threatened Clay about talking like that about Tara reminded me of season 2 when Clay threatened Jax about mentioning Donna. The roles have been reversed. When Clay threatened Jax he was still in complete control of the club. Now the entire club would back Jax over Clay.[/QUOTE]
:applause:
[QUOTE=ConanRulesNBC]Also, what is up with Potter? Sutter is really keeping him still sort of a mystery. First off he looks a lot like JT.[/QUOTE]
[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3eF5WPzKhQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player"]4:00[/URL]
Dammit Clay. His solution to problems is just killing people. He could've called the guy to cancel the hit, but damn, I hope it doesn't go through. I don't want clay to die, when theres 2 or 3 seasons left..
[QUOTE=Applause][URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3eF5WPzKhQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player"]4:00[/URL][/QUOTE]
Interesting. So it was just a coincidence that Potter and John Teller look a little like each other. Unless Sutter was just saying that. I'll be a bit disappointed if Potter just turns out to be another ATF.
I read this in a recent TVGuide interview with Ron Perlman:
On Clay's recent actions:
[QUOTE]"I love trying to find deep in my soul where the justifications for these horrific actions are," Perlman continues. "Because only in that way will the audience know whose side to take. It's not just black and white. There's a sinew behind it and blood and sweat and DNA. ... I think that if we did our job right, the audience will say, 'Holy s--- man, I'm not sure this guy had any choice.'"
[/QUOTE]
On this season feeling like it's the final season:
[QUOTE]"I'm actually blown away by the fact that we are in Season 4 and we're doing s--- that I only imagined would be dealt with when we were winding everything up," Perlman says. "I can't believe that [Sutter] has the chutzpah to deal with this now and feels that's there plenty of room to top this. He's reshuffling the deck and changing the dynamic of everything. We have the best of all possible worlds here: We have something incredibly climatic, and then we have room for the reinvention of the saga."
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=ConanRulesNBC]So Clay blew it. He had Gemma talk to Tara who really did seem serious about not telling Jax about the letters. Gemma and Unser helped cover up what happened with Piney and Clay still made the phone call at the end.
But now it's going to blow back in his face because Jax went with Tara.
Also, I can't believe Juice would agree to work with the sheriff and Potter after coming clean to Chibbs. Though, I don't think Juice told Chibbs about his father.
4 more episodes left.
Will Tara survive?
Will Clay survive?
Will Jax survive?
Will Juice survive?
How will they get out of the deal with the cartel?[/QUOTE]
Man, when Gemma found Piney and then brought Unser in and Unser said he was going to call the Sherriff on Clay and then Gemma started agreeing with Unser on Clay being a wounded animal, I really though Gemma was about to kill Unser. I guess either way it's only a matter of time until he gets killed by someone.
When Juice was walkign in that secret room with Potter I was hoping he had a knife on him and was just going to take out Potter since he doesn't care about his life anymore anyway and he really has no way out here. Juice's only hope is if the Sherriff finds out that Potter is planning to screw him over too and they can somehow work together against Potter. I really hope Sutter finds a way to keep Juice around, I like his character as the intel/non-motorcycle riding biker.
Clay has to know that if Tara is killed now Gemma and Unser will definetly know it's him and Jax may suspect it too. Not sure if Clay was calling the guy tell him to kill Tata or to let it go, but if they do try to kill Tara now and Jax is with her when it happens he might be able to stop it and then find out from the hitman who hired him.
[QUOTE=ConanRulesNBC]The scene where Jax threatened Clay about talking like that about Tara reminded me of season 2 when Clay threatened Jax about mentioning Donna. The roles have been reversed. When Clay threatened Jax he was still in complete control of the club. [B]Now the entire club would back Jax over Clay[/B].[/QUOTE]
I agree with that. At this point I'm not even sure that Tig is completely behind Clay.
Need some help from my fellow SOA fans. I watched this weeks episode off of itunes so I didn't get to see the previews for next week. Can someone give a quick summary of what they showed on the preview?
Thanks
In the preview for next week it shows Jax telling Gemma that he's taking Tara and they're going to have a little family vacation. Clay meets with the cartel to go over more plans about Tara and then Clay asks Gemma where Jax is and she tells him he's with Tara and I think Clay tries to stop Romeo but it's too late. At least it looks that way in the preview.
[QUOTE=dkmwise] I really hope Sutter finds a way to keep Juice around, I like his character as the intel/non-motorcycle riding biker.
[/QUOTE]
We differ here. To me, he's the weakest link of the MC. Not even Clay's endorsement of the M.O.M. patch was able to turn him straight. He's on very thin ice right now with both sides, law and outlaw.
Juiced assaulted the officer. He's either going to pay for that in jail/prison, or they'll use it against him (ie do this, and you're free). But of course based on previous events with Potter, or whoever that agent that's hidings name is will most likely screw him over on that, should Juice take that option (if he has a option).
I think Gemma's up to something as well as far as Unser goes. She basically seduced him into not reporting Clay in. But, Unser did get Gemma to leave the house so I'm not sure what he'll do in there, and obviously neither will Gemma. Glad to see that he knows Clay's doing no good, though. Probably means he'll die.
Bobby's trying to convince Jax to be the leader of the club which is great for the Club, not so much his married life with Tara considering that's not what she wants for him. So basically nothing much has changed between them since they were first together in Season 1 or 2 besides children and their will to stay together through thick and thin.
I'm also not sure what Potter is doing with the guy that's in prison for life by skewing the story of what actually happend..I mean what can he do in there? Only thing I can think of is set the club up when one of the members come in to visit him.
It's also clear who the other cartel is that has been sending bodies to the clubs front door this whole time. The second man in charge who's been a part of all the ambush attacks on the Niners gave it away when he said "I'll gun down your whole crew and send their bodies to your mothers front door". Doesn't that sound like what happend to the club, twice? One time in a place where only the club and the cartel knew where they were (the second truck took off before the ambush happend).
That's all I want to type out for now. 5 more days till next episode :sleeping
[QUOTE=dkmwise]I agree with that. At this point I'm not even sure that Tig is completely behind Clay.[/QUOTE]
Tig has been kind of silent the last couple episodes other than his daughter coming to town. I expect him to do some violent shit here pretty soon.
[QUOTE]
@sutterink
will have some BIG NEWS about the end of the season coming out today. we are just crossing the F's and dotting the K's. more to come...
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]
@sutterink
We will release the info about the finale on Monday. It's good news that involves a parrot and a fire hose. Talk amongst yourselves...
[/QUOTE]
I think it might be a 2-hour season finale. :rockon: