[QUOTE=Carbine]:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:[/QUOTE]
:lol Like you have a counter argument. To be honest, I don't even think you understand what was written.
Printable View
[QUOTE=Carbine]:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:[/QUOTE]
:lol Like you have a counter argument. To be honest, I don't even think you understand what was written.
[QUOTE=RRR3][B]Tmac[/B] lebron and [B]durant[/B] are/were better scorers than wade[/QUOTE]
:no: eFG%, TS%, and FG% says otherwise
[QUOTE=Pointguard]:lol Like you have a counter argument. To be honest, I don't even think you understand what was written.[/QUOTE]
What you wrote makes no sense to anyone here.
[QUOTE=RRR3]Tmac lebron and durant are/were better scorers than wade[/QUOTE]
Mello too.
The opposition counter was going to be the playoffs argument to be factored in.
[QUOTE=Pointguard]Mello too.
The opposition counter was going to be the playoffs argument to be factored in.[/QUOTE]
The facts says otherwise.
Playoffs? Don't even get me started.
[QUOTE=Carbine]What you wrote makes no sense to anyone here.[/QUOTE]
Only you. You really think Dirk is on the level of Kobe, Jordan, AI??? Shaq, Durant, Wade, Barkley??? Did Dirk ever crack top three scoring wise? This is puzzling to you? Please provide a counter argument.
[QUOTE=Pointguard]Wow, this is from a guy that has Rodman as a screen-name and avatar. Do you really know what defense is?[/QUOTE]
:lol not arguable.. certainly better. My english is killing me sometimes.
[QUOTE=Pointguard]Only you. You really think Dirk is on the level of Kobe, Jordan, AI??? Shaq, Durant, Wade, Barkley??? Did Dirk ever crack top three scoring wise? This is puzzling to you? Please provide a counter argument.[/QUOTE]
Kobe, Jordan, and Shaq no. On par with Wade and Durant. Certainly better than AI.
Dirk has never been a shoot 30 times a game player so you can't expect him to be at the ppg levels they are.
LOL @ people acting Like KG was some offensive liability to prop Dirk up. :facepalm
KG's PPG from 1999-2000 to 2006-07
22.9 (playoffs 18.8)
22.0 (playoffs 21.0)
21.2 (playoffs 24.0)
23.0 (playoffs 27.0)
24.2 (playoffs 24.3)
22.2
21.8
22.4
Dirk PPG during the same period
17.5 (it was his 2nd year, I admit)
21.8 (playoffs 23.4)
23.4 (playoffs 28.4)
25.1 (playoffs 25.3)
21.8 (playoffs 26.6)
26.1 (playoffs 23.7)
26.6 (playoffs 27.0)
24.6 (playoffs 19.7)
Yeah, Dirk is a better scorer and always has been but stop acting like KG was ****ing Ben Wallace out there.
[QUOTE=ACCBaller1403]Kobe, Jordan, and Shaq no. On par with Wade and Durant. Certainly better than AI.
Dirk has never been a shoot 30 times a game player so you can't expect him to be at the ppg levels they are.[/QUOTE]
Dwyane Wade career: 25.4 PPG on 48.5 shooting
Dirk: 23.0 PPG on 47.6 shooting
:facepalm
Yeah, I'm OK with that statement.
[QUOTE=Pointguard]Only you. You really think Dirk is on the level of Kobe, Jordan, AI??? Shaq, Durant, Wade, Barkley??? Did Dirk ever crack top three scoring wise? This is puzzling to you? Please provide a counter argument.[/QUOTE]
LOL....so now volume gets completely ignored.
Here are some facts for you...playoffs:
kobe 25.4 ppg on 44.8/33.5/81.5.....54.2% TS
dirk 25.9 ppg on 46.5/38.4/89.2.....58.4% TS
But yea, Dirk isn't an elite scorer. He just trumps Kobe in every scoring statistic there is. And Kobe is absolutely an elite scorer.
Do you realize that Dirk is 15th all time in playoff points scored?
Do you realize that Dirk is 8th all time in playoff points per game?
Do you realize that Dirk is 28th all time in playoff true shooting percentage? Which by my count is the highest TS% in NBA playoff history for any player averaging over 25ppg in their playoff careers. Correct me if I'm wrong, but by my count, Dirk is the most efficient scorer in playoff history over 25ppg.
LOL...and he's not elite...
[QUOTE=DMAVS41]LOL....so now volume gets completely ignored.
Here are some facts for you...playoffs:
kobe 25.4 ppg on 44.8/33.5/81.5.....54.2% TS
dirk 25.9 ppg on 46.5/38.4/89.2.....58.4% TS
But yea, Dirk isn't an elite scorer. He just trumps Kobe in every scoring statistic there is. And Kobe is absolutely an elite scorer.
Do you realize that Dirk is 15th all time in playoff points scored?
Do you realize that Dirk is 8th all time in playoff points per game?
Do you realize that Dirk is 28th all time in playoff true shooting percentage? Which by my count is the highest TS% in NBA playoff history for any player averaging over 25ppg in their playoff careers. Correct me if I'm wrong, but by my count, Dirk is the most efficient scorer in playoff history over 25ppg.
LOL...and he's not elite...[/QUOTE]
TS is obviously going to favor Dirk over a lot of players because of FT% :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=RRR3]TS is obviously going to favor Dirk over a lot of players because of FT% :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
That is why I listed fg% and 3p% as well....i listed everything.
There isn't one area in playoff scoring that Kobe beats Dirk in. Not ppg, not fg%, not 3p%, not ft%......not one.
Would anyone claim Kobe as not an elite scorer? Of course not.
And again, 8th all time in playoff ppg and no matter how you break it down...one of the most efficient high volume scorers in the history of the nba playoffs.
oh, and he's one of the most clutch players of his era and all time in terms of scoring....and he's a rock solid 5 of 12 on playoff game winners.
kobe? 7 of 25 on playoff game winners.
no matter how you break it down, dirk is absolutely right there with Kobe as a scorer in the playoffs.
Dirk is an elite scorer. Don't be stats nerds..even though his stats says same.
7 footer with one of the greatest shooting touch.He has one of the most impossible move to guard.He is one of the best go to guy. And clutch.
You don't even need his records to see it.But still by stats, how many guys have 48% FG, 38% 3pts and 88% FT while scoring 23 ppg in 13 years?
[QUOTE=Pointguard]Only you. You really think Dirk is on the level of Kobe, Jordan, AI??? Shaq, Durant, Wade, Barkley??? Did Dirk ever crack top three scoring wise? This is puzzling to you? Please provide a counter argument.[/QUOTE]
Iverson isn't even as good of a scorer as Dirk and you have him up there with Jordan and Kobe.
Then you wonder why people are laughing at you.
Iverson in single coverage is a pretty deadly scorer but the fact is he's undersized, a terrible finisher around the rim besides the occasional acrobatic, reverse lay up he'll hit and has poor shot selection.
There is no team that willl benefit more from Iverson than Dirk. Iverson puts more pressure on the defense with his dribble penetration which creates for his teammates directly and indirectly but Dirk's shooting ability from all regions on the court, his ability to space so far out so the defense has to stick with him at all times is equally effective.
I don't know whats your criteria but there are two things that can put Iverson above Dirk. One is ppg which is obviously a flawed stat.
The second is explosive scoring which is something Iverson has a clear edge in. But once you get to a certain point for me, at least 25+ ppg, I'll take the consistent scorer over the more explosive because I'm not exactly a fan of those 20 pt on 7/23 nights.
I wouldn't put Dominique up there either despite his gaudy volume numbers. The guy was a selfish player (Kevin Wills called him out for being a hog) and has a weak playoff career besides the duel with Bird. I'm not talking about his team success but individually, he never did much in the playoffs and always declined compared to the season.
Nique is more aggressive, attacks really hard from the mid-low post region but the classic example of style over substance. I like his skillset though. Crafty on the block with the turnaround jumper, dropstep and I like how effectively he used the glass on those one handed shots coming top speed on penetration. Solid shooter uptill midrange but nowhere near Dirk like.
I'll give you Kobe, Jordan, Barkley, Wade, Shaq. Iverson, Nique and Durant are meh.
I hate to get off topic, but those who say Nique was more style than substance I gotta disagree with. I don't think Nique gets credit for the way he evolved throughout his career with his all around game and shot selection. And on top of it, Fratello admitted he told Nique to jack. Cause that was their best chance to win. Look at Nique's supporting casts compared to the other legends of his era. He got the Hawks several 50 win seasons as it was anyway. Kevin Willis was a borderline All Star type at best who has NO right to knock Nique. If anything, he needs to knock the coaches if anything who told Nique to jack.
Now in comparing Dirk to Nique, I wouldnt complain at all if someone chose Dirk over Nique. However, Nique has just as much takeover ability scoring as Dirk. Rebounding wise, I feel Nique rebounded his position better than Dirk. And Nique is a better one on one defender than Dirk. Passing wise I would say they are even. But Dirk is such a matchup nightmare that it can supercede that advantages Nique brought to the table. And I'm a huge Nique fan. And I can see how one would take Dirk over Nique. But Nique WASN'T more style than substance. Guys who are more style than substance are guys like Harold Miner, who was a bust. Or on a higher level guys like JR Rider, Ricky Davis, JR Smith, etc. Highly talented, freak athlete, and good players. But they didn't get the most out of there ability.
Guys like Nique and AI are who they are. They are true Batman and can carry a team. They have the heart of a lion and are truly HOF players. But I admit, guys like MJ, Kobe, Wade, and West are on another level than AI. And SF's like Bird, Doc, Barry, and Bron are on another level than Nique. The reason being is because they have more complete all around games and are more effecient scoring the rock. But other than guys like that, I feel Nique and AI don't have to take a backseat to any players at their positions. U can argue others of course, but the guys I named I would CLEARLY take over a Nique or AI.
[QUOTE=rodman91]Dirk is an elite scorer. Don't be stats nerds..even though his stats says same.
7 footer with one of the greatest shooting touch.He has one of the most impossible move to guard.He is one of the best go to guy. And clutch.
You don't even need his records to see it.But still by stats, how many guys have 48% FG, 38% 3pts and 88% FT while scoring 23 ppg in 13 years?[/QUOTE]
seriously, this is a dude who's dropped 50 points in a playoff games (granted, it was against the Suns who obviously didn't hang their hat on defense) and just scored 48 points in a playoff game with insane efficiency . . . but he isn't an elite scorer. Lol.
The idea that Dirk isn't in the same league as Durant as a scorer is absurd. Dirk could probably drop 30ppg if all the Mavs did was run him around screens all day, but that's not using him to the best of his abilities. I actually think Dirk is a good model for Durant to mold his game after as he continues to improve.
[QUOTE=RRR3]Dwyane Wade career: 25.4 PPG on 48.5 shooting
Dirk: 23.0 PPG on 47.6 shooting
:facepalm[/QUOTE]
And?
I said they were on par with each other.
What's your point numbskull?
[QUOTE=DMAVS41]LOL....so now volume gets completely ignored.
Here are some facts for you...playoffs:
kobe 25.4 ppg on 44.8/33.5/81.5.....54.2% TS
dirk 25.9 ppg on 46.5/38.4/89.2.....58.4% TS
But yea, Dirk isn't an elite scorer. He just trumps Kobe in every scoring statistic there is. And Kobe is absolutely an elite scorer.
Do you realize that Dirk is 15th all time in playoff points scored?
Do you realize that Dirk is 8th all time in playoff points per game?
Do you realize that Dirk is 28th all time in playoff true shooting percentage? Which by my count is the highest TS% in NBA playoff history for any player averaging over 25ppg in their playoff careers. Correct me if I'm wrong, but by my count, Dirk is the most efficient scorer in playoff history over 25ppg.
LOL...and he's not elite...[/QUOTE]
Scorer means you score alot? No?
A scorer scores points. An elite scorer is among the top scorers. Excuses are never consulted. If Yao didn't get tired, he could take a high volume of shots - but he couldn't. Therefore he isn't in the argument.
If another player scores more than you, who is the greater scorer? If you are not among the top scorers, it is impossible to be an elite scorer. I'll just stick with the elite argument for now, maybe we do the next to elite later.
Do you really think Dirk is on the level of Jordan, Hakeem, AI, Wilt, Shaq, Baylor, Gervin, Wade, Lebron? Those guys are the elite. I might be missing somebody but it isn't Dirk. Dirk doesn't have multiple years of great scoring like these guys have. Therefore he can't be considered in their company. Kobe is in there company because he's got several years where he leads in regular season and post season like those guys. There are years where he stands out. Dirk just doesn't have the feature these guys have. Dirk has no standout year where you go "Wow! what a scoring accomplishment." Are you seriously trying to say Dirk belongs in that company???
Did somebody say efficient scorer? - its not the same thing. Artis GIlmore was an incredibly efficient scorer.
[QUOTE=DMAVS41]That is why I listed fg% and 3p% as well....i listed everything.
There isn't one area in playoff scoring that Kobe beats Dirk in. Not ppg, not fg%, not 3p%, not ft%......not one.
Would anyone claim Kobe as not an elite scorer? Of course not.
And again, 8th all time in playoff ppg and no matter how you break it down...one of the most efficient high volume scorers in the history of the nba playoffs.
oh, and he's one of the most clutch players of his era and all time in terms of scoring....and he's a rock solid 5 of 12 on playoff game winners.
kobe? 7 of 25 on playoff game winners.
no matter how you break it down, dirk is absolutely right there with Kobe as a scorer in the playoffs.[/QUOTE]
Dirk does get credit for having a long peak. I think he was elite one year but he is more of a consistently high scorer in the playoffs than he is an elite scorer.
[QUOTE=Pointguard]
If another player scores more than you, who is the greater scorer? If you are not among the top scorers, it is impossible to be an elite scorer. I'll just stick with the elite argument for now, maybe we do the next to elite later.
[/QUOTE]
Dirk averages more PPG in the playoffs than Kobe. So you're saying that Dirk is more of an elite scorer in the playoffs than Kobe?
I'm not necessarily saying Dirk is more of an elite scorer, but that's where your logic is taking it.
Another thing that goes into this is that almost anyone would agree that Dirk is almost impossible to defend. To me, the group of people who are "almost impossible to defend" are all in that upper echelon.
Dirk's highest scoring outputs in the playoffs:
28.4 on 49% eFG
27.7 on 51% eFG
27.0 on 49% eFG
26.8 on 51% eFG
26.7 on 57% eFG
Kobe's highest scoring outputs in the playoffs:
32.8 on 50% eFG
32.1 on 47% eFG
30.2 on 49% eFG
30.1 on 51% eFG
29.4 on 49% eFG
Kobe has SIX playoff runs with a higher ppg than Dirk and he is right there with him efficiency wise.. from the field they shoot almost the same[Dirk is 1% higher in FG and eFG] except that Kobe does it on a much higher volume.. which would make Dirk's efficiencies drop well more than that 1%. Probably 2 to 3% if he tried to score on Kobe's volume.. possibly even more. He's not on his level as a scorer in the playoffs or the regular season.. pretty much undebatable.
I didn't say that Dirk was better. I was saying his logic is bad, which sounds like I'm sort of agreeing with you... even though I don't agree with the way you put it. I said that Dirk has a higher career PPG which, under his very limited logic model, says that Dirk is more of an elite scorer in the playoffs. My point was to take other things into consideration other than PPG.
But anyway.. you're wrong about Kobe being withen 1% efficiency. If we're going off those seasons you listed, Kobe is at 49.2% and Dirk is at 51.4%. And if we take your idea and lower Dirk's efficiencies by 2% assuming he tries to shoot at Kobe's volume... He'd get the extra points and STILL have .2 higher efficiency than Kobe.
Also, I'm not a big fan of dropping off player's seasons with bad numbers just because it helps my argument. I've never done it with Dirk, even though he was garbage early in his career. To me, that's the tradeoff for having more seasons you can (probably) play, meaning more seasons you can rack up stats and title runs.
[QUOTE=FF1]Dirk averages more PPG in the playoffs than Kobe. So you're saying that Dirk is more of an elite scorer in the playoffs than Kobe?
.[/QUOTE]
Nah.. what he's saying is that Dirk has maintained his 25 ppg averages more consistently than Kobe over the course of his career. Kobe started off scoring 8 ppg for a few years, and then he went into the teens. and then to the low twenties, and then he started to explode into the thirties. In his prime though, he was in the thirties. Dirk never approached that.
So you can say career wise Dirk is on Kobe's level because Kobe took longer to mature[because he came straight from HS] but thats like saying Pau Gasol is on Kevin Garnett's level as a player since they both have 20/10 career averages. It's just a skewed comparison that lacks all context.
[QUOTE=FF1]Ya lets just throw out seasons that don't fit in with your agenda. Sure.[/QUOTE]
Use 2001-2010 prime Kobe versus 2002-2011 prime Dirk. How is that not fair? Comparing Kobe's numbers when he was a bench player to Dirk's as a first option somehow is though?
Again.. Pau Gasol=Kevin Garnett.. both 20/10 career averages. The fact that KG had to adapt straight from HS and Pau came in a seasoned Euro vet doesnt matter right?
lol. Dork can't see Kobe as a scorer.
40+ point games
Kobe--110
Dork--20
50+ point games
Kobe--25
Dork--2
60+ point games
Kobe--5
Dork--0
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
[QUOTE=NugzHeat3]Iverson isn't even as good of a scorer as Dirk and you have him up there with Jordan and Kobe.
Then you wonder why people are laughing at you. [/quote]
:lol seriously. Look up the word scorer. It will say something about total points scored or one who scores. Not one thing will appear about how or the level of accuracy. I never said anything about offensive impact. Your little thesis below isn't applicable. A scorer scores. Now if you say complete scorer or efficient scorer then your little irrelevant thesis below could mean something. But it isn't like we are asking for a lot of understanding from you to understand this.
At the end of the day Iverson was asked for an uncommon scoring burden. He could win while taking on that scoring burden. I don't fault him in loosing to a prime Shaq and a good Kobe that year and sorry, if Shaq does a Lebron Philly wins that year. The difference between AI and most scorers is that he can consistently take on the burden and even get to the finals with it. You know like I know that Iverson wasn't getting calls - Shaq even commented on this. Not even Jordan consistently went at the basket like Iverson.
Iverson attacked like few other players. You can't measure his impact against a guy that had the convenience of rarely stepping out of his comfort zone. Read the Art of War. A guy that disorients the defense and causes confusion isn't operating at the same level of a jump shooter. And AI was further into enemy territory than Dirk. AI made himself taller by getting deep into the defense and was flat out more prolific.
[QUOTE=tpols]
So you can say career wise Dirk is on Kobe's level because Kobe took longer to mature[because he came straight from HS] but thats like saying Pau Gasol is on Kevin Garnett's level as a player since they both have 20/10 career averages. It's just a skewed comparison that lacks all context.[/QUOTE]
But Dirk vs Kobe isn't skewed because they both didn't go to college. Dirk should get credit for having a longer (more consistant, matured faster?) scoring ability than Kobe.
Plus even with you picking and choosing 5 seasons, Dirk still has 2.2% efficiency on Kobe which you implied would get Dirk to Kobe's volume.
Both their career playoff high is 50 points. (against the same team).
For their career, they are both virtually impossible to stop.
[QUOTE=Jacks3]lol. Dork can't see Kobe as a scorer.
40+ point games
Kobe--110
Dork--20
50+ point games
Kobe--25
Dork--2
60+ point games
Kobe--5
Dork--0
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:[/QUOTE]
We're talking about playoffs, bro. As a Mavs fan, I've heard that that's the only time that counts.
Plus.. where the hell did I say that Dirk was a better scorer than Kobe? I was just saying that some of the reasons people were throwing out were dumb.
[QUOTE=Pointguard]:lol seriously. Look up the word scorer. It will say something about total points scored or one who scores. Not one thing will appear about how or the level of accuracy. I never said anything about offensive impact. Your little thesis below isn't applicable. A scorer scores. Now if you say complete scorer or efficient scorer then your little irrelevant thesis below could mean something. But it isn't like we are asking for a lot of understanding from you to understand this.
At the end of the day Iverson was asked for an uncommon scoring burden. He could win while taking on that scoring burden. I don't fault him in loosing to a prime Shaq and a good Kobe that year and sorry, if Shaq does a Lebron Philly wins that year. The difference between AI and most scorers is that he can consistently take on the burden and even get to the finals with it. You know like I know that Iverson wasn't getting calls - Shaq even commented on this. Not even Jordan consistently went at the basket like Iverson.
Iverson attacked like few other players. You can't measure his impact against a guy that had the convenience of rarely stepping out of his comfort zone. Read the Art of War. A guy that disorients the defense and causes confusion isn't operating at the same level of a jump shooter. And AI was further into enemy territory than Dirk. AI made himself taller by getting deep into the defense and was flat out more prolific.[/QUOTE]
% have to come into play at some point. Ty Lawson can take every shot in a game and have 31 points on horrible shooting, while Dirk scores 31 on 60% shooting. People are going to say Dirk was the better scorer. It's not as black and white as "however many points are in the boxscore".
[QUOTE=FF1]We're talking about playoffs, bro. As a Mavs fan, I've heard that that's the only time that counts.
Plus.. where the hell did I say that Dirk was a better scorer than Kobe?[/QUOTE]
He's not as good in the PS. He's nowhere near as good in the RS.
What is there to discuss? He isn't on Kobe's level.
Seriously. Look at those numbers again. Kobe absolutely blows him away.
[QUOTE=Jacks3]He's not as good in the PS. He's nowhere near as good in the RS.
What is there to discuss? He isn't on Kobe's level.
Seriously. Look at those numbers again. Kobe absolutely blows him away.[/QUOTE]
You didn't say anything about the PS except "He's not as good in the PS". Not really a big argument there.
Over their career, Dirk has a higher PPG. Over 5 prime seasons Kobe has a few points higher on 2+% less efficiency. Their career highs are the same.
[QUOTE=FF1]Dirk averages more PPG in the playoffs than Kobe. So you're saying that Dirk is more of an elite scorer in the playoffs than Kobe?
I'm not necessarily saying Dirk is more of an elite scorer, but that's where your logic is taking it.
Another thing that goes into this is that almost anyone would agree that Dirk is almost impossible to defend. To me, the group of people who are "almost impossible to defend" are all in that upper echelon.[/QUOTE]
This isn't really true at all. Dirk had a good year this year, but Stephen Jackson held him down in the playoffs before. He has never been elite as a prolific scorer over the course of a whole year. We don't know if Dirk can handle being a top scorer for a whole year, game in and game out. This is not unreasonable for any player in any sport to be considered elite.
[QUOTE=FF1]
Over their career, Dirk has a higher PPG. Over 5 prime seasons Kobe has a few points higher on 2+% less efficiency. Their career highs are the same.[/QUOTE]
Kobe has more 40+ point games. He has more 30+ point games.
His averages are way higher. He has about 7 post-seasons with higher averages than Dirk's absolute best.
Then he crushes Dork in the RS.
Dork isn't close.
[QUOTE=FF1]% have to come into play at some point. Ty Lawson can take every shot in a game and have 31 points on horrible shooting, while Dirk scores 31 on 60% shooting. People are going to say Dirk was the better scorer. It's not as black and white as "however many points are in the boxscore".[/QUOTE]
Seriously, if a player puts pressure on a defense for 48 minutes and 95 games by insistent attack and he gets to the finals he's done what is asked for him. I just don't think its fair if you took the first game to the last, lets say game 95 is their last game in the finals (or game 83 is the first in the playoffs) and we compared Dirks best year to Iverson's or Kobe's better years, we would see that AI/Kobe scored more than Dirk in likely 80 games. In no other sport would anybody consider the Dirk scorer better. It's not fathomable.
[QUOTE=FF1]You didn't say anything about the PS except "He's not as good in the PS". Not really a big argument there.
Over their career, Dirk has a higher PPG. Over 5 prime seasons Kobe has a few points higher on 2+% less efficiency. Their career highs are the same.[/QUOTE]
Since when are 7 footers supposed to be shooting the same percentage as shooting guards???
[QUOTE=Jacks3]Kobe has more 40+ point games. He has more 30+ point games.
His averages are way higher. He has about 7 post-seasons with higher averages than Dirk's absolute best.
Then he crushes Dork in the RS.
Dork isn't close.[/QUOTE]
You originally responded to a post I made about their post season numbers. This is the 2nd time I've pointed that out to you. Stop coming at me with regular season numbers, because I never said Dirk was a better regular season scorer.
[QUOTE=Pointguard]Seriously, if a player puts pressure on a defense for 48 minutes and 95 games by insistent attack and he gets to the finals he's done what is asked for him. I just don't think its fair if you took the first game to the last, lets say game 95 is their last game in the finals (or game 83 is the first in the playoffs) and we compared Dirks best year to Iverson's or Kobe's better years, we would see that AI/Kobe scored more than Dirk in likely 80 games. In no other sport would anybody consider the Dirk scorer better. It's not fathomable.[/QUOTE]
You didn't really respond to my post.
You're saying it's as cut and dry as "If person A scores more, he's a better scorer than person B."
I'm saying that at SOME point %s obviously matter (most people would say that person A [31 points, 60% shooting] was the better "scorer" compared to person B [32 points, 20%shooting]).
So if % does matter at some extreme level, we have to find how un-extreme it has to get before it doesn't matter anymore. Then you looked at Dirk and AI compared to those findings and determine who the better scorer is.
That's all IMO obviously and I don't even know who would come out on top.. I just think it's silly to say "**** all the other statistics". To me, I look at "Okay Player X has the ball. We really need a score. How much do I trust his ability". I think Dirk matches up really well there. Dirk has his shortcomings, but his ability to score on any defender should be unquestioned at this point.
________
Completely unrelated.. but most of Kobe's 40+ streaks and huge games came when his team was completely garbage and he HAD to take a ton of the shots. Notice when Kobe has a winning team, his scoring goes back down. Notice how he doesn't have that many 40 point games in the playoffs and his Finals scoring numbers are even lower. Before you get mad, none of this is a knock on Kobe. That's just how the system is. It's not because Kobe all of a sudden can't score as much (up until this season at least) it's because when your team is better, it's easier to win when one person isn't dominating the ball. Kobe knows that. If he could trade all those 40 point games for another ring he'd do it in a heartbeat and it wouldn't make him any less of a "scorer".
Dirk's teams have almost always won 50+ games and haven't needed him to score more than 25 a night. When his teammates do have an off night (which happens more rarely than Kobe's teams during those years), Dirk usually comes through with a huge scoring game to lift the load. It doesn't mean that one night when he's going for 40+ he figured something out, and then forgot it the next game. It just means that showing the world you can score a bunch isn't the point of being an NBA superstar and it's not always conducive to winning.
[QUOTE=FF1]You originally responded to a post I made about their post season numbers. This is the 2nd time I've pointed that out to you. Stop coming at me with regular season numbers, because I never said Dirk was a better regular season scorer.[/QUOTE]
I pointed out the PS as well. :oldlol:
Kobe is the better PS and RS scorer.
Dork ain't on Kobe's level. Deal wit it.