Even as a fan for well over 2 decades I still must say..I dont think the NBA owes me.

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I was amused to see "NBA cares" on the list of places to choose where you heard of them from. anyway....


[IMG]http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/8206/netsy.jpg[/IMG]

There. perhaps someone gets to live over a trivial sum of money for an american.

But most of us arent gonna pay it. And I may never do it again.

But we sure dont mind hating on other peoples greed.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]And only reason anyone has a job is people willing to pay for whatever their job offers(a product...or a service). Doesnt mean everyone owes everyone else. It means people buy and sell...the sellers dont owe the buyers for paying for what they want.[/QUOTE]

But they're not doing their job right now.

Which is why we arent buying anything. And nobody is being wronged.

Arguably some cities due the money the teams bring in or....the Tv networks which have to pay the NBA with or without games to show. But thats it.

Im not paying. Im not getting. Im owed nothing.

Season ticket holders I imagine will get the money back. Thats what the NFL planned. If not...thats something owed.

We are. We've made these owners and players rich and now they're not playing.

We didnt make the owners rich. At least not as basketball fans. You dont buy an NBA team...then get rich. You are rich to begin with.

And the players...just sellers of a service. We buy it. Us watching it....deal is complete.

Unless you have a ticket they didnt return the cash for they dont owe you anything. And even if you do...it wouldnt be the players owing it.

You're just happy being screwed over obviously.

As a long time fan who has supported the NBA and paid my hard earned money, the fact that there's no NBA this season just pisses me off.

I just think it's pathetic that greedy millionaires and billionaires can't come to an agreement over money.

Im quite upset when im wronged. I try hard not to **** anyone over. Ive failed here and there. But I try.


Im not holding some men I dont know responsible for my entertainment because I watch them play a sport...and buy tickets...and they do the exact same thing.

Im quite sure Derrick Rose buys ore Nba tickets than me and his family probably has more Bulls jerseys than I do(zero). And I suspect he bought a few of them.

Nothing either of us have ever done puts him in my debt.

I get upset at people for....personal issues. Or real wrong doing. Not a labor dispute over money that isnt mine. Im no more mad at the players and owners than I am at the writers for keeping Breaking Bad off the air for 2 years.

And for the record....

Im considering setting up some kinda....contest type thing on ISH.

Maybe make a new topic on charity and have it so anyone who donates at least 10 dollars to a charity who posts proof of it...is entered into a random drawing I will conduct on thanksgiving day to win a 50 dollar amazon gift card(they email them wit the code to use it).

So someones 10 dollars turns into 50....and a bunch of people the world over might get something out of it. Like...getting to live. And have clean water. And a meal.

A forum full of people hating on the rich for being greedy should have at least 10 people willingto give 10 dollars to people worse off than us right?

Id have to put some thought into that....

Thank you KBlaze for pointing out what all of us on the NBA forum can't realize-that NBA player salaries compared to our salaries have similar ratios as our salaries compared to poor people in Africa. Don't bitch about NBA players not doing "all they can do" because none of us are doing all we can do. Also thank you for inspiring me to donate to Nothing But Nets. And for the record, I am a college student, I pay my own tuition, room, and board, and I work two jobs and 30 hours a week while in school to pay for it. So no I don't have a bunch of extra money lying around. So hopefully this will convince someone else who doesn't think they can to donate a few dollars.

From the way the players have talked, it seems like you still owe them for having the privilege of being a fan for 20 years, Kblaze8855.

Id give scottie Pippen a buck or two if he were really like...homeless broke.

[QUOTE=tpols].. me as a student I have 50 dollars in my savings account and thousands in debt. How am I supposed to help others in a less fortunate position than me? I do community service right now and I did it in HS. Other than that I cant really contribute much more.[/QUOTE]

You still do more then most, so be proud and know that you are setting a good example for others. I need to punch myself at times to remember it is time to give and not cry about things I do not have, like right now, a new car. I spend too much time saying "This charity can not be trusted, i'll save the money for something I can trust more so I know the money will reach its destination"... sigh..

I agree with the rest of your post.

This article points out some estimates on what the NBA does for local business:

[url]http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/dish/201111/south-floridas-eye-popping-economic-hoops-losses[/url]


Seems Miami may end up 200 million short just off not having the Heat....


[QUOTE]Economists tell CBS Miami that South Florida may suffer $200 million in losses if there is no pro basketball this year. Need an example of the shortfall? CBS reports parking near the American Airlines Arena is now going for three bucks.

And the lockout will do major damage to other cities, too.

In Cleveland, WOIO reports up to 35 percent of downtown restaurants' annual revenue comes from NBA games.

Portland says no Blazers games translates to a $59 million hit, Oklahoma City claims it will lose $60 million if Kevin Durant doesn't play, and Tony Parker's Spurs are worth an astonishing $90 million to the businesses of San Antonio.[/QUOTE]


[QUOTE]Tourists like Duran Minkler are wandering looking for something to do.

“If the Miami Heat were playing tonight would you be going to the game?” CBS4 David Sutta asked Minkler.

Minkler responded “Absolutely the best trio in the league, Bosh, Dwyane Wade, King LeBron, I’d totally go.”

But with no games the only place he’s going is back to his hotel.

The lockout becoming a washout for not just fans but the service industry.

“These guys want to make more money, but they are totally messing with mine.” Chris Pereira-Ignacio, a bartender at the Doral Buffalo Wild Wings told us.

While Pereira may be miles from the American Airlines Arena, but the Heat playoff run last year meant a 12% increase in sales.

“Last year for the NBA it was crazy. It was full house at capacity it was great.”

That now appears to be gone.

Economists estimate the Miami Heat, and its trio of superstars, meant up 200 million dollars a year for our economy.

“We have 50-60 TVs in each restaurant, people are here to watch the games,” Buffalo Wild Wings franchise owner Seth de Kanter said.

When he heard the devastating news today he thought about the 200 employees working at his three restaurants. He’s hoping to avoid sending people home.

“Be creative,” said de Canter. Maybe spend a little more on marketing to try to let people know that we are here. We still have great service. We still have great food.”[/QUOTE]

They are keeping places open that otherwise may not be just off existing nearby.

I guess thats why they build arenas....

What you just posted, kblaze, should be reason to be upset that there's not a season. They're costing people who really depend on a season all that money. The players and owners have the luxury of being able to wait it out until one of the sides gets the deal they want. But now they're costing people their jobs and a lot of money and those people aren't making millions a year.

If someone comes and rains money down outside my house every day for 60 years and then...dont for 3 months...

They dont owe me money just because I decided to take advantage and make catching the rain the key to my survival.

The NBA has been business as usual all but 6 or 7 months of the last 60 years.

They dont owe the people who made money off the crowds they attract money when they work out their problems for a while.

Saying the NBA players or owners owe the fans is like saying George Lucas owes me another Star Wars because I liked the first 6

[QUOTE=B

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]If someone comes and rains money down outside my house every day for 60 years and then...dont for 3 months...

They dont owe me money just because I decided to take advantage and make catching the rain the key to my survival.

The NBA has been business as usual all but 6 or 7 months of the last 60 years.

They dont owe the people who made money off the crowds they attract money when they work out their problems for a while.[/QUOTE]

What problems are the NBA players or owners going through? While people who depend on this money to get by are going to be hurt the most the NBA players and owners will still have millions and billions of dollars. There's absolutely no reason either side should be doing this right now. It's total BS.

[QUOTE=ConanRulesNBC]That's just not true.[/QUOTE]

I don't usually agree with BOOB, but he is 100% correct. The NBA doesn't owe any of us a damn thing.

[QUOTE=Sarcastic]I don't usually agree with BOOB, but he is 100% correct. The NBA doesn't owe any of us a damn thing.[/QUOTE]

We pay their salaries. So, yes, they do.

[QUOTE=ConanRulesNBC]We pay their salaries. So, yes, they do.[/QUOTE]

Only the people who go to and watch the games pay their salaries. And even then, those people are making the choice to do so.

Now teachers, policemen, firemen, and government workers. We pay their salaries whether we want to or not, when we pay our taxes.

Even if they don't really "owe" us anything. I'm tired of either side here claiming to be a helpless victim in this. I'm so sick of people sticking up for the players and/or owners.

The people going to games dont really even pay their salaries either. Only 1.1 of over 4 billion comes from ticket sales.

The owners sure as hell dont need the fans. They are billionaires to begin with.

The players do nothing but sell their goods(in this case...entertainment) at a price people find it fair t opay. Even though most pay nothing at all and watch it on TV(unless we are counting cable costs...in which case everyone on tv owes everyone in the world).

NBA fans get hours of entertainment and then claim to be owed something for...tickets and shit...which players and owners no doubt spend money on too. Most of them at a higher rate than fans.

Players buying dozens and at times hundreds of tickets. their family watches the games.

They are fans like the rest of us....only as rich fans they likely spend more on the NBA than we do.

But we pool all of humanity together and combined...yes. We put more in than 400 players/owners.

But thats that buying/selling is. They offer a product. We buy it.

End of transaction. Nobody is obligated to sell or buy anything.

I'm going to disagree and say that pro athletes do owe their fans. I'm not sure exactly what they owe, but at the very least I think that pro athletes should show their fans respect by recognizing that it's fans of the game that allow them to live the lives they lead.

Athletes can show that respect by doing simple things, like thanking the fans when they get a chance, or signing or few autographs. I also believe that popular pro athletes should recognize their influence on society, and should embrace that responsibility as the role model that they are (whether they like it or not, Chuck).



This goes back to my Spidermans uncle quote earlier in the thread, "with great power, comes great responsibility". It doesn't matter if these pro athletes don't want to be idolized, because they are. They should understand the things they do in their lives, can effect the lives of people they've never even met. Obviously athletes (or anyone) shouldn't live their lives by the wishes of others, but not understanding or choosing to ignore their social influence is plain irresponsible.


It's really a trip if you sit back and imagine what it would be like if you were someone who directed social trends, or effected the lives of millions of people you'd never even meet. You see it a lot more with Musicians and Artists than you do with someone like a pro basketball player, but can you imagine the pressure? I can tell you that I work in a high pressure, high emotion business myself... but I'm not sure I could handle being a social icon. Perhaps that's why I'm not.

ps- sry for the rant. I just smoked a cyclone of some ATF... back to watching Vinnie J drop 22 in the 4th quarter.

[QUOTE]I'm going to disagree and say that pro athletes do owe their fans. I'm not sure exactly what they owe, but at the very least I think that pro athletes should show their fans respect by recognizing that it's fans of the game that allow them to live the lives they lead.[/QUOTE]

Really...

Doesnt the public allow every person with money to live the life they lead? I mean...we dont call people who buy Toyotas toyota fans...but those people provide the great sums of money that many people make working for Toyota. First person shooter fans allow game developers to live well. whoever has the rights to the snuggie...owes his money to people who like to have warm arms as they watch tv?

Once you start down the rich people owing the public road you pretty much have to include...everyone who isnt poor and say they owe everyone else for giving them their lifestyle.

Its pretty much just...the world at work.

I dont see how an NBA player owes me any more for watching ABC than Seth Mcfarlane owes me for watching Family Guy.

They produce something I like.

All im supposed t oget out of it...is enjoyment. They arent obligated to provide me with it.

Im sure thousands of people provide the means for me to have everything I own.

Doesnt mean I owe them anything. Everyone is a buyer and a seller.

If I get something for free...then I owe. If I give something for free...then im owed.

And frankly...ive gotten a lot more from the NBA for free than ive paid for unless we are counting commercials as me paying....

Rich and powerful people do owe more back to society, but most of these people don't make their money as social icons. Entertainers have always bared the burden of being role models. That's what our society promotes. We can talk all day about how parents [I]should[/I] be role models, or teachers [I]should[/I] be role models, or [I]scientists[/I] should be role models... but that isn't reality. The reality is that singers are role models, actors are role models, reality tv stars are role models (scary)... and pro athletes are role models. These are the people that kids (and adults) look up to and idolize... which is why these people make the money that they do. I'm not claiming Entertainers should live their lives by other people wishes, but they should recognize the impact that their decisions may have on those people who look up to them.

Kblaze...usually I've thought you were a know it all ****ing **** prick, but I like you here. The NBA absolutely doesn't owe us anything. This isn't World War ****ing II When the men were sent off to war and the women were working the factories. I'm sure some of you little boys will find some little games to play in the mean time while us grown men frankly just drink more Maker's Mark and remember the older times. **** you all, basically. I love this thread, btw. Good going, kblaze, **** the whiners.

I think back to being a kid at times when I hear about athlete role models...

I...dont think...I was that stupid.

The only person I ever looked up to role model wise was my grandfather while I had him.

Ive always felt that treating kids old enough to reason like blank slates or...like they are brainless...was half the problem. I cringe when I see someone do "baby talk" to a kid they expect to learn to speak properly.

I remember hating being talked down to as a kid. Im quite sure I was smarter and more responsible by 12 than many adults. And the older I got the more clear it became that most adults are nothing to emulate.

I try to give kids more credit than to assume they are gonna turn out to be douchebags because Lebron might be.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]I think back to being a kid at times when I hear about athlete role models...

I...dont think...I was that stupid.

The only person I ever looked up to role model wise was my grandfather while I had him.

Ive always felt that treating kids old enough to reason like blank slates or...like they are brainless...was half the problem. I cringe when I see someone do "baby talk" to a kid they expect to learn to speak properly.

I remember hating being talked down to as a kid. Im quite sure I was smarter and more responsible by 12 than many adults. And the older I got the more clear it became that most adults are nothing to emulate.

I try to give kids more credit than to assume they are gonna turn out to be douchebags because Lebron might be.[/QUOTE]


Yada Yada, have a shot of Scotch and shut the hell up.

[QUOTE]Only the people who go to and watch the games pay their salaries. And even then, those people are making the choice to do so.
[/QUOTE]

......What? How do you think they make money?

They get those huge national and local tv deals because people watch the games and advertisers want exposure to them.

The fans/people DO pay the salaries.

Among the more ridiculous things I've heard.

[QUOTE]Kblaze...usually I've thought you were a know it all ****ing **** prick, but I like you here. [/QUOTE]

Well thats because im pretty sure I do know it all and im glad to say so.


[QUOTE]The NBA absolutely doesn't owe us anything. This isn't World War ****ing II When the men were sent off to war and the women were working the factories. I'm sure some of you little boys will find some little games to play in the mean time while us grown men frankly just drink more Maker's Mark and remember the older times. **** you all, basically. I love this thread, btw. Good going, kblaze, **** the whiners.[/QUOTE]

I didnt notice till now but...I have been drinking more.

Shit I never drink too. Like gin.

And my friends dad gave us an idea for thanksgiving. Said in the 70s they would get a big new trashcan, all the fruit they could find, 2-3 bottles of ever clear, and top it off with juice and shit and drink it on holidays.

Sounds good to me.

[QUOTE]......What? How do you think they make money?

They get those huge national and local tv deals because people watch the games and advertisers want exposure to them.

The fans/people DO pay the salaries.[/QUOTE]

No more than the "fans/people" pay the salaries of everyone who has a job.

They just get more because more people buy what they offer and they are more important to its production than most people are to what their job offers the public.

I agree the fans aren't owed anything.... you pay to watch your team play, you get enjoyment out of that, you get entertained, thats what you pay for.

If I go the cinema every couple of weeks and pay to watch a film for my own entertainment, does that mean the cinema owes me something? Of course not.

^
Some say the actos owe you. Somehow. They owe you more than the movie you paid to see.

God get rid of those ****ing frog icons they are ****ing annoying.

The league don't owe us sh*t. People who say things like "they owe us... WE are the ones who pay their salary/revenue actually" are idiots.

That's like saying Beatles owe everyone because its people who keep listening to their music, you know, not because its brilliant and timeless and hauntingly beautiful.

Or saying Michael Jackson owed all his fans because they paid money to listen to Thriller.

Stupid logic.

I'm not saying owners/players are blameless. both sides behaved like idiots (although owners never negotiated in good faith nor did they play fair, so they are mostly at fault), they f*cked up each other's lives, not ours. They dont owe us nothing.

The players are entitled to make what htey make becuase market dictates that. Saying they shouldn't complain about a unfair deal because they already make so much is a dumb logic.

I agree that they owe us nothing.
They don't force us to watch / pay for their products.
And I was never pissed because of it...

I'm just pissed that they won't allow me to invest my money into their salaries this year! :oldlol:

JUST LET ME BURN MONEY ON THAT LEAGUE PASS!!!

I agree with the OP. To act as if we (the fans) have some inalienable right to demand that other grown men entertain us with their athletic prowess is arguably a greater display of arrogance than anything the players and owners have done. Seriously... some people are conducting themselves as if their Constitutional rights have been violated or something. It's one thing to be angry at the fact that your favorite sport is not being played. I understand that. I feel that. But no other grown man owes me anything but simple respect. He definitely doesn't owe me the privilege of watching him throw a ball in a basket.

2 Lockouts in 13 years. Where Amazing Happens.