Wilt in Must-Win and Clinching Games in the Post-Season

[QUOTE=32Dayz]I have never once pm'd you or tried to talk to you outside of us arguing about Kobe or Wilt inside the forum in threads.

Any evidence that I tried to contact you, or PM you?
Any actual evidence that the person in the picture is me besides a madeup story you wrote?

No one believes you except for certain Trolls who use the picture to try and upset me although I dont understand why you think a picture of a random googled Asian kid would upset me.

Anyway keep being your same stupid self you'll never change, or make friends, or not be obese.

You're a failure in life and on this forum.

:lol[/QUOTE]

Brian, you have multiple accounts and you're considered to be troll who gets owned time after time. You PM'd me about being lonely, how sad can someone be, you have multiple accounts but still you average almost 20 posts per day on your current account. I know I shouldn't have exposed you and your facebook pic like this but you troll'd too much. And haha, so lame that you set your profile to private after we owned you.. We consumed your life, dude..

When I exposed you, Brian, you got so owned that you even got banned, we all know you're just some lame asian kid without friends sitting at home 24/7 hanging on ISh. You're lonely as a stray dog..:facepalm

[QUOTE=millwad]Brian, you have multiple accounts and you're considered to be troll who gets owned time after time. You PM'd me about being lonely, how sad can someone be, you have multiple accounts but still you average almost 20 posts per day on your current account. I know I shouldn't have exposed you and your facebook pic like this but you troll'd too much. And haha, so lame that you set your profile to private after we owned you.. We consumed your life, dude..

When I exposed you, Brian, you got so owned that you even got banned, we all know you're just some lame asian kid without friends sitting at home 24/7 hanging on ISh. You're lonely as a stray dog..:facepalm[/QUOTE]
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[QUOTE=millwad]:blah [/QUOTE]

I am not Asian, I live in the US and I have plenty of good friends.

You just come on here to get owned by JLauber, rage about his essays then leave and come back 15 minutes to do the same thing.

You are probably fat and I'd say its a 95% chance you live in your mothers basement.

I have never PM'd you or ever wanted to be your friend although you may like to imagine I would be since you most likely have none of your own and certainly none on this forum.

Peace. :applause:

Live in the US? :lol
What time is it it Denver right now? Orlando? LA? New York?

The "Wilt-bashers" love to point out Chamberlain's three year period from '67-68 thru '69-70. They blame WILT for his Sixers "blowing" a 3-1 series lead in the '68 ECF's. Or a supposedly "stacked" Laker team losing to an old Celtic team in '69 (and with Wilt on the bench in the last five minutes of that game seven.) Or Wilt supposedly being "outplayed" by a "crippled" Reed in game seven of the '70 Finals.

I have covered those MYTHS many times, but here we go again.

[B]67-68. First round of the playoffs. In the clinching game six win of the Knicks-Sixers series, Chamberlain outscored Bellamy, 25-19 to go along with 27 rebounds, in a 113-97 romp.[/B]

Comments: The 62-20 Sixers, who once again obliterated the NBA during the regular season, lost HOFer Billy Cunningham in game four of the first round, and he would not return the rest of the playoffs. Even without him, and on a team that did not have much depth, they won easily won the last two games of the series. And all Chamberlain did in the series, was to lead BOTH teams in scoring, at 25.5 ppg, rebounding, at 24.2 rpg, AND assists, at 6.3 apg. He also reduced Bellamy, who had shot .541 during the regular season, to a .421 brick-layer in the series. For the series, Bellamy averaged 20.0 ppg, 16.0 rpg, and 3.5 apg.

Another sidenote...Wilt played every minute of the series, which included three games in three straight days.

[B]ECF's. In game seven, Wilt outscored Russell, 14-12, and outrebounded him, 34-26, in a 100-96 loss. Still, he only shot 4-9 from the field, and an even worse 6-15 from the line.[/B]

Comments: Yes, Wilt's Sixers lost a 3-1 series lead, but to say that they "blew it" was a complete joke. The Sixers, who just waltzed thru the regular season, were nowhere near the same team that lost a game seven by four points to the Celtics. I already mentioned the loss of Cunningham in the first round against the Knicks. Then, in game five, BOTH Luke Jackson and Wali Jones suffered leg injuries. And, once again, as talented as that Sixer team was, they were not a deep team (unlike the Celtics, who could go ten deep.)

Furthermore, Chamberlain came into the playoffs at less than 100%, and was nursing a strained hamstring, arthristis in his knee, a bum toe, and then a partial tear in his right calf, which had him NOTICEABLY LIMPING from game three thru the rest of the series. Even Russell commented that a "lessor man would not have played." Even more remarkable was the fact that Wilt played every minute of every game of the playoffs.

His Sixers, without Cunningham, and then Jackson and Jones in game five, were routed 122-104. It was still a close game with about ten minutes left, and Philly holding an 81-79 lead, but the depleted Sixers shot 2-20 down the stretch. However, Chamberlain easily outplayed Russell in that game, despite being noticeably hobbled, outscoring him, 28-8, and outrebounding him, 30-24.

Jackson and Jones were injured and basically worthless. In game six, a 114-106 loss, Jackson was able to score 10 points, but Jones could hardly play, and did not score. The "anti-Chamberlain clan" pointed out that Wilt had a poor game six, scoring 20 points on 6-21 shooting from the floor, and 8-23 from the line...and it was one of his worst playoff games of his career...but he did manage to pull down 27 rebounds.

Of course, we KNOW that players like Willis Reed and Kareem would not have even PLAYED under the same conditions. Yet, here was Wilt, at far less than 100%, gutting out a 48 minute performance.

In that game seven, four point loss, the Chamberlain critics, like Simmons, point out that Wilt only took two shots in the second half, both on offensive rebounds. BUT, the real question had to be why Wilt's teammates completely ignored Chamberlain in that second half. Wilt routinely touched the ball about 15 times at the offensive end, per quarter during the season, however, he only got seven touches in the third quarter, and then only those two offensive tips in the 4th quarter.

Meanwhile, Greer shot 8-25; Chet Walker 8-22 (and an even worse 4-14 in the second half); Guokas 2-10; and the hobbled Wali Jones was at 8-22. While Wilt shot 4-9, his teammates collectively shot .333...all while ignoring him in that second half.

Some have argued that Wilt should have DEMANDED the ball. Obviously, in retrospect, he SHOULD have. BUT, where was his COACH? Hannum was one of the best coaches of all-time, but in this game he was awful. Furthermore, given all of the criticsim that Chamberlain had received earlier in his career, for being a "selfish ball-hog", one can only imagine the public outcry after the game, had Wilt been yelling at his teammates to get him "the damn ball."

For the series, Wilt averaged 22.1 ppg, 25.4 rpg, and 6.7 apg. Russell did play brilliantly, ... some called it his greatest post-season series against Wilt...and he averaged 11.6 ppg and 23.9 rpg. Still, Wilt was nowhere near 100%, and he certainly was not outplayed.

Of course, had the Sixers been as healthy as they were in the 66-67 season, there was no question that they would have repeated their 4-1 blowout series win in the prior season. The Wilt-bashers never mention that fact, nor the fact that Wilt was PLAYING when virtually no other player would have been.

Wilt's 68-69 post-season was easily the worst of his career. The obvious reason was the fact that he had the worst COACH of his career. Butch Van Breda Kolf despised Chamberlain from the first day that Wilt joined the team, and really had no clue how to use him. He asked Wilt to sacrifice his offense so that a declining Baylor could continue to fire away. He Chamberlain playing the high post for a chunk of the season so that Elgin could roam the baseline. And, he even BENCHED Wilt during some of the games in that season.

Wilt's scoring dropped to a career low (at the time), from a previous low of 24.1 ppg, down to 20.5 ppg. At the mid-way point in the season, Chamberlain was down to 17 ppg. It got so bad that SI was set to run an article in which the author claimed that Wilt could no longer effectively score. That was all Chamberlain needed to get out of his season-long funk. He exploded for a 60 point game the night before the article hit the newstand, and a few days later he followed it up with a 66 point outburst. Both were eaily season highs in the NBA.

In fact, over the course of 17 straight games, Chamberlain terrorized the opposing centers in the league. Included in that streak were games of 30 against Elvin Hayes; 23 against Nate Thurmond; 33 and 32 against Bob Rule (who was an exceptional player in the league for three years before injuries runined his career in the early 70's); 31 against Willis Reed; and 35 against Bill Russell, which was his highest game against Russell since his 46 point game against him in the clinching game five loss of the '66 ECF's.

And later in the season, Wilt crushed the eventual MVP (and ROY) Wes Unseld, by outscoring him 25-4, and outrebounding him, 38-9. Just the game before that, Wilt murdered Russell on the glass, with an NBA season game of 42 rebounds (Russell only had 18.) And near the end of the season, Wilt led LA to an eye-brow raising 108-73 win over the Celtics in a nationally televised game in BOSTON. In fact, the Lakers easily won the season series against Boston, 4-2.

Unfortunately, when the playoffs began, it was back to Van Breda Kolf's offensive philosophy...which seldom involved Wilt. Chamberlain averaged a by-far worst (at the time) 13.9 ppg in the post-season, albeit on .545 shooting from the floor. Meanwhile, Baylor was just awful in the playoffs, averaging 15.4 ppg on a team-worst .385 from the floor.

How perplexing was Van Breda Kolf's philosophy? He was credited with this baffling quote, "When we pass the ball into Wilt, he will score. But it is an ugly offense to watch."


[B]68-69. In the first round of the playoffs, and against Thurmond, the 55-27 Lakers dug themselves a 2-0 hole, but roared back to win the next four straight, including a 118-78 rout in Oakland in game four. In that game clinching game six Wilt, who hardly shot at all in the series, still outscored Thurmond, 11-8. I couldn't pull up their shooting percentages or rebounding numbers from that one single game, but Julizaver did list their totals below.[/B]

Comments: Once again, the Warriors eked out two straight wins in the first two games, but the Lakers dominated the rest of the series. Thurmond did manage to outscore Chamberlain, per game, 16.7 ppg to 12.0 ppg, but as always, Wilt held a massive edge in FG% in that series, .500 to .392. In fact, in their three post-season H2H series, Wilt outshot Nate, .500 to .392; .550 to .398; and a staggering .560 to .343. Chamberlain also pounded Thurmond on the glass in this series, 23.5 rpg to 19.5 rpg.

[B]WCF's. In one of the rare occasions in Wilt's post-season career, he was outscored by an opposing center in a clinching game. Zelmo Beaty, who was a five-time all-star in his career, outscored Wilt in the game five loss to Wilt and his Lakers, 30-16.[/B]

Comments: For the series, Beaty averaged 24.2 ppg to Wilt's 19.2 ppg. I couldn't come up with either of their FG%'s, nor Beaty's rebounding numbers, but Chamberlain averaged 25.6 rpg in the series.

[B]Finals. Wilt watched the last five minutes of the game seven, two-point loss, against Russell's Celtics, from the bench. Despite playing five minutes less than Russell (48 to 43), Chamberlain outscored Russell, 18-6; outshot Russell, 7-8 to 2-7; and outrebounded Russell, 27-21.[/B]

Comments: Thanks to the inept coaching of Van Breda Kolf, and the usual solid defense by Russell, Wilt only averaged 11.7 ppg in the Finals. He still outscored Russell, 11.7 ppg to 9.1 ppg, but obviously that was well below Wilt's regular season average of 20.5 ppg (and his regular season average of 16.3 ppg against Russell.) He did outrebound Russell, 25.0 rpg to 22.1 rpg.

I have covered this series many times, but essentially LA was ONE PLAY away from winning the series, 4-1. The Lakers were leading the series, two games to one, and were winning game four in Boston, 88-87, and with the ball in the waning seconds. All guard Johnny Egan had to do was dribble out the clock (and BTW, why was Egan handling the ball, and not West?) Instead, he was stripped of the ball, and then Sam Jones, while falling down, hit the game-winning shot (the first of TWO miraculous game-winning shots by Celtic players in the series.) Given the fact that the Lakers, behind Wilt's best game of the series in game five, easily won game five, 117-104...that ONE PLAY (followed by that miraculous game-winner) prevented the Lakers from a 4-1 series romp.

There were MANY other reasons for that Laker series loss, too. Baylor went AWOL in games three thru five (and two of them close losses), scoring a TOTAL of 24 points. He and West, who was the Finals MVP, combined for 1-14 shooting in the 4th quarter of game three (a six point loss.) And in game seven, Baylor shot 8-22 from the floor in that two point loss.

Of course, the REAL reason why LA did not win that series, was the incompetent coaching of Van Breda Kolf. His offensive stategy was horrible and predictable, and his biggest blunder was leaving Chamberlain on the bench for the last five minutes of game seven.

And a quick recap of that game seven. The proud Celtics came out on fire, and and they were firmly in control with a little over 10 minutes left in the game, with their 17 point lead. Then, the Lakers mounted a furious comeback. With about six minutes left, Chamberlain went up for a defensive rebound, which led to a fastbreak basket, cutting the Celtic lead down to nine points, but came down awkwardly, and injured his knee. He hobbled around for another series, and again grabbed another defensive rebound, which led to two West FTs, and now a seven point deficit.

LA had cut the margin, from 17, down to 7, with a little over five minutes left. However, Wilt HAD to come out.

Now, the Wilt-bashers, including the idiotic Simmons (and even Charley Rosen, whose take on that series was WAY off), claimed that Wilt pulled himself out because he was fearful of being on the floor in yet another series loss to Russell. However, think about just how ridiculous that assertion was. Why would Wilt take himself out, in the middle of a Laker run that had wiped out ten points of a Celtic lead in about six minutes, and with a little over five minutes remaining? If he had truly been "afraid" of another supposed embarrassing loss, why didn't he "feign" an injury much earlier in the quarter, when the Lakers were down by as much as 17 points.

Furthermore, the aged Celtics were running on fumes by that point in the game. The Lakers actually pulled to within one point (103-102), but ran out of time (and Don Nelson hit what was ultimately the game-winner, when his shot hit the back of the rim, bounced about six feet up, and came straight down into the hoop.)

And Wilt's "replacement", the great Mel Counts, missed a key shot late (as well as committing a turnover in the last two minutes), and overall shot 4-13 from the floor.

Russell stunned Wilt after the game, claiming that anything short of a broken leg was incusible. He even suggested that Wilt might have been faking the injury.

Several points about Russell's comments. One, where was Russell in that 4th quarter? True, he played all 12 minutes, but he was nowhere to be found. In fact, Wilt had as many rebounds, on those two plays with his injured leg, as Russell did in the entire period (and Wilt outrebounded Russell in the entire quarter, 7-2, despite missing the last five minutes.)

Two, even Wilt's COACH, who hated Chamberlain, came to Wilt's defense, saying that Wilt was hurt.

Three, how could Russell possibly suggest that Wilt, the game's greatest "iron man" would not be injured? Just in the previous year's ECF's alone, Wilt PLAYED every minute of every game of the series, and with several injuries, including a torn calf. And Wilt had a history of playing games throughout his entire career with a variety of injuries, (even several in a row with a near-deadly infection, suffered by a deliberate elbow to his mouth.)

Four, how about Russell in the '58 Finals? He missed two entire games, and about half of the last game of the series, with a bone chip in his ankle...in a Finals loss.

And finally...Russell DID apologize...albeit, some 20 years later, and after the damage had been done to Wilt's reputation.

As for Wilt's coach...he was fired a short time after the series loss, and never came close to the same success that he had enjoyed WITH Chamberlain, again.

And Wilt's new coach, in the 69-70 season, asked Wilt to become the focal point of the Laker offense the very next season. Wilt responded by averaging 32.2 ppg in his first nine games (on about .600 shooting from the floor), but, unfortunately, in that ninth game, Wilt shredded the SAME knee that he injured in that game seven, and was never the same again.

Once again, Chamberlain played in a total of 11 post-season games in which the series went to the limit. He played in nine game seven's, in best-of-seven series; one game five, in a best-of-five playoff series; and one game three in a best-of-three series.

Julizaver posted Wilt's numbers in his game seven's, which were these: 24.4 ppg, 26.3 rpg, and an eye-popping .626 from the field (87-139 in those nine game seven's.) In my research, I could not find Wilt's FG-FGA's in four of those games, game seven of the first round playoff series against St. Louis; his game seven of the '70 first round series against Phoenix (incidently, he led his team back from a 3-1 deficit to win that series); his game seven of the '71 playoff series against the Bulls; and his game seven of the '73 playoff series against the Bulls.

And here were Wilt's numbers in his game five of a best-of-five series: 56 points, on 22-48 shooting, with 35 rebounds. And his numbers in his game three of a best-of-three series: 53 points, on 24-42 shooting, with 22 rebounds.

Overall, Chamberlain's averages in those 11 games were as follows:

29.9 ppg
26.7 rpg
.581 FG%


Here are his known numbers from those "absolute limit" games, as well as the known numbers by his starting opposing center in those 11 games.

1. 59-60 first round playoff series against Syracuse. Chamberlain had 53 points, on 24-42 shooting, with 22 rebounds. His starting opposing center was multiple All-Star Red Kerr, who had 7 points.

2. 61-62 first round playoff series against Syracuse. Wilt with 56 points, on 22-48 shooting, with 35 rebounds. Kerr had 20 points.

3. 61-62 ECF's against Boston. Wilt had 22 points, on 7-15 shooting, with 21 rebounds. Russell had 19 points, on 7-14 shooting, with 22 rebounds.

4. 63-64 playoffs against St. Louis. Chamberlain with 39 points, 26 rebounds, and 10 blocks. His opposing center, Zelmo Beaty (who would go on to become a multiple All-Star) had 10 points.

5. 64-65 ECF's against Boston. Chamberlain with a 30 point game, on 12-15 shooting from the floor, and 32 rebounds. Russell had 15 points, on 7-16 shooting, with 29 rebounds.

6. 67-68 ECF's against Boston. Wilt (who was playing with an assortment of injuries, including a torn calf) had 14 points, on 4-9 shooting, with 34 rebounds. Russell had 12 points and 26 rebounds.

7. 68-69 Finals against Boston. Chamberlain, playing 43 minutes, had 18 points, on 7-8 shooting from the field, with 27 rebounds. Russell had 6 points, on 2-7 shooting, with 21 rebounds.

8. 69-70 first round playoffs against Phoenix. Wilt had 30 points, 27 rebounds, and 11 blocked shots. His opposing center, Jim Fox, had 7 points.

9. 69-70 Finals against NY. Wilt with 21 points, on 10-16 shooting, with 24 rebounds. His opposing center, Willis Reed, had 4 points, on 2-5 shooting, with 3 rebounds.

10. 70-71 first round of the playoffs against Chicago. Wilt with 25 points and 18 rebounds. His opposing center, 7-0 Tom Boerwinkle had 4 points.

11. 72-73 first round of the playoffs against Chicago. Chamberlain with 21 points and 28 rebounds. His opposing center, Clifford Ray, had 4 points.


Chamberlain's TEAM's went 6-5 in those 11 games. And they lost four to the Celtic Dynasty by a TOTAL of NINE points (2, 1, 4, and 2 points.) Their other loss came in the '70 Finals against the Knicks. So, Wilt's TEAM's were a few points away from going 10-1 in his 11 "absolute limit" games.


Some other interesting facts. Wilt outscored his opposing center in ALL 11 games. And while I didn't get all of his opposing center's rebounding numbers in those 11 games, I am 99.9% certain that Wilt outrebounded his opposing center in ALL but one of those games as well (and in that game, he was outrebounded by Russell, 22-21...and BTW, Pollack had Wilt with 22 rebounds in that.) And given the fact that Wilt shot dramatically better in the known games, he probably outshot his opposing centers in the vast majority of them (Russell did outshoot him in one of the known games, by a 7-14 to 7-15 margin.) Finally, Wilt outscored his opposing centers in those 11 games by a 329 to 108 margin...or a 29.9 ppg to 9.8 ppg differential per game.

Furthermore, in his five H2H "absolute limit" games against HOFers (4 against Russell, and 1 against Reed), Wilt outscored those guys, per game, by a 105-56 margin...or 21.0 ppg to 11.2 ppg. He outrebounded them, per game, by a 136-101 margin, or 27.2 rpg to 20.2 rpg. I don't have Russell's FG-FGA from the '68 game seven, so I can only post what I do have in terms of FG%. In those five games, Chamberlain shot 40-63 from the field, or .635. Russell and Reed shot a combined 18-42 in the known four games, or .429.


I'll post Wilt's and his opposing center's known numbers in all of his "must-win" and series clinching games next...

Ok, here are the known numbers in Wilt's "must-win" playoff games (elimination games), and clinching game performances (either deciding winning or losing games), of BOTH Chamberlain, and his starting opposing centers in those games.

1. Game three of a best-of-three series in the first round of the 59-60 playoffs against Syracuse, a 132-112 win. Wilt with 53 points, on 24-42 shooting, with 22 rebounds. His opposing center, Red Kerr, who was a multiple all-star in his career, had 7 points.

2. Game five of the 59-60 ECF's against Boston, a 128-107 win. Chamberlain had 50 points, on 22-42 shooting, with 35 rebounds. His opposing center, Russell, had 22 points and 27 rebounds.

3. Game six of the 59-60 ECF's against Boston, in a 119-117 loss. Wilt had a 26-24 game, while Russell had a 25-25 game.

4. Game three of a best-of-five series in the first round of the 60-61 playoffs , and against Syracuse, in a 106-103 loss. Chamberlain with 33 points, while his opposing center, the 7-3 Swede Halbrook, scored 6 points.

5. Game five of a best-of-five series in the first round of the 61-62 playoffs, against Syracuse, in a 121-104 win. Chamberlain had 56 points, on 22-48 shooting, with 35 rebounds. Kerr had 20 points in the loss.

6. Game six of the 61-62 ECF's, and against Boston, in a 109-99 win. Wilt with 32 points and 21 rebounds. Russell had 19 points and 22 rebounds in the loss.

7. Game seven of the 61-62 ECF's, against Boston, in a 109-107 loss. Wilt with 22 points, on 7-15 shooting, with 21 rebounds. Russell had 19 points, on 7-14 shooting, with 22 rebounds in the win.

8. Game seven of the 63-64 WCF's, and against St. Louis, in a 105-95 win. Wilt with 39 points, 26 rebounds, and 10 blocks. His opposing center, Zelmo Beaty, who would go on to become a multiple all-star, had 10 points in the loss.

9. Game five of the 63-64 Finals, and against Boston, in a 105-99 loss. Chamberlain with 30 points and 27 rebounds. Russell had 14 points and 26 points in the win.

10. Game four of a best-of-five series in the 64-65 first round of the playoffs against Cincinnati, a 119-112 win. Chamberlain with 38 points. His opposing center, multiple all-star (and HOFer) Wayne Embry had 7 points in the loss.

11. Game six of the 64-65 ECF's, against Boston, a 112-106 win. Chamberlain with a 30-26 game. Russell with a 22-21 game in the loss.

12. Game seven of the 64-65 ECF's, and against Boston, a 110-109 loss. Wilt with 30 points, on 12-15 shooting, with 32 rebounds. Russell had 15 points, on 7-16 shooting, with 29 rebounds in the win.

13. Game five of a best-of-seven series, in the 65-66 ECF's, and against Boston, in a 120-112 loss. Wilt had 46 points, on 19-34 shooting, with 34 rebounds. Russell had 18 points and 31 rebounds in the win.

14. Game four of a best-of-five series, in the first round of the 66-67 playoffs, and against Cincinnati, a 112-94 win. Wilt with 18 points, on 7-14 shooting, with 27 rebounds and 9 assists. His opposing center, Connie Dierking, had 8 points, on 4-14 shooting, with 4 rebounds in the loss.

15. Game five of the 66-67 ECF's, and against Boston, in a 140-116 win. Chamberlain with 29 points, on 10-16 shooting, with 36 rebounds, 13 assists, and 7 blocks. Russell had 4 points, on 2-5 shooting, with 21 rebounds, and 7 assists in the loss.

16. Game six of the 66-67 Finals, and against San Francisco, in a 125-122 win. Chamberlain with 24 points, on 8-13 shooting, with 23 rebounds. His oppsoing center, HOFer Nate Thurmond, had 12 points, on 4-13 shooting, with 22 rebounds in the loss.

17. Game six of the first round of the 67-68 playoffs, against NY, in a 113-97 win. Wilt had 25 points, and 27 rebounds. His opposing center, HOFer Walt Bellamy, had 19 points in the loss.

18. Game seven of the 67-68 ECF's, against Boston, in a 100-96 loss. Wilt with 14 points, on 4-9 shooting, with 34 rebounds. Russell had 12 points and 26 rebounds in the win.

19. Game six of the first round of the 68-69 playoffs, against San Francisco, in a 118-78 win. Wilt with 11 points. Thurmond had 8 points in the loss.

20. Game four of the 68-69 WCF's, against Atlanta, in a 133-114 sweeping win. Chamberlain with 16 points. His opposing center, Zelmo Beaty had 30 points in the loss.

21. Game seven of the 68-69 Finals, against Boston, in a 108-106 loss. Chamberlain had 18 points, on 7-8 shooting, with 27 rebounds. Russell had 6 points, on 2-7 shooting, with 21 rebounds in the win.

22. Game five of a best-of-seven series (the Lakers were down 3-1 going into the game) in the first round of the 69-70 playoffs, and against Phoenix, a 138-121 win. Wilt with 36 points and 14 rebounds. His opposing center, Neal Walk, had 18 points in the loss.

23. Game six of the first round of the 69-70 playoffs, against Phoenix, in a 104-93 win. Wilt with 12 points. Jim Fox started that game for Phoenix, and had 13 points in the loss.

24. Game seven of the first round of the 69-70 playoffs, against Phoenix, and in a 129-94 win, which capped a 4-3 series win after falling behind 3-1 in the series. Wilt with 30 points, 27 rebounds, and 11 blocks. Fox had 7 points in the loss.

25. Game four of the 69-70 WCF's, against Atlanta, in a 133-114 sweeping win. Wilt with 11 points. Bellamy had 19 points in the loss.

26. Game six of the 69-70 Finals, against NY, in a 135-113 win. Wilt with 45 points, on 20-27 shooting, with 27 rebounds. Nate Bowman had 18 points, on 9-15 shooting, with 8 rebounds in the loss.

27. Game seven of the 69-70 Finals, against NY, in a 113-99 loss. Wilt with 21 points, on 10-16 shooting, with 24 rebounds. HOFer Willis Reed had 4 points, on 2-5 shooting, with 3 rebounds in the win.

28. Game seven of the first round of the 70-71 playoffs, against Chicago, in a 109-98 win. Wilt with 25 points and 18 rebounds. 7-0 Tom Boerwinkle had 4 points for the Bulls in the loss.

29. Game five of the 70-71 WCF's, against Milwaukee, in a 116-94 loss. Wilt had 23 points, on 10-21 shooting, with 12 rebounds, 6 blocks (5 of them on Alcindor/Kareem.) Kareem had 20 points, on 7-23 shooting, with 15 rebounds, and 3 blocks in the win. Incidently, Wilt received a standing ovation when he left the game late...and the game was played in Milwaukee.

30. Game four of the 71-72 first round of the playoffs, against Chicago, in a 108-97 sweeping win. Wilt had 8 points and 31 rebounds. Clifford Ray had 20 points in the loss.

31. Game six of the 71-72 WCF's, against Milwaukee, in a 104-100 win. Chamberlain with 20 points, on 8-12 shooting, with 24 rebounds, and 9 blocks (six against Kareem.) Kareem had 37 points, on 16-37 shooting, with 25 rebounds in the loss.

32. Game five of the 71-72 Finals, against NY, in a 114-100 win. Chamberlain with 24 points, on 10-14 shooting, with 29 rebounds, and 9 blocks. HOFer Jerry Lucas had 14 points, on 5-14 shooting, with 9 rebounds in the loss.

33. Game seven of the first round of the 72-73 playoffs, against Chicago, in a 95-92 win. Wilt with 21 points and 28 rebounds. His opposing center, Clifford Ray, had 4 points.

34. Game five of the 72-73 WCF's, and against Golden St., in a 128-118 win. Wilt with 5 points. Thurmond had 9 points in the loss.

35. Game five of the 72-73 Finals, against NY, in a 102-93 loss. Wilt with 23 points, on 9-16 shooting, with 21 rebounds. Willis Reed had 18 points, on 9-16 shooting, with 12 rebounds.

That was it. 35 "must-win" elimination and/or clinching post-season games.

[B]So, Chamberlain played in 35 games in post-season career, in which his team either faced elimination, and/or, it was a clinching game of a series.

Contrary to popular belief, Wilt easily had a winning record in those games, going 24-11 in those 35 games[/B].

And how about those 11 losses? His TEAM's lost those 11 games by margins of 2, 3, 2, 6, 1, 8, 4, 2, 14, 22, and 9 points. SIX of those 11 losses were by 4 points or less, and nine of them were by single digits. FOUR of them were by TWO points or less.

Interesting too, was the fact that most of those 24 wins were by comfortable margins. Those margins were by 20, 21, 17, 10, 10, 7, 6, 18, 24, 3, 16, 40, 19, 17, 11, 35, 19, 22, 11, 11, 4, 14, 3 and 10 points.

Chamberlain personally outscored his opposing starting center in 29 of those 35 games, including his first 19 games, which covered his scoring seasons. In those 35 games, he faced Russell in 11 of those games, and outscored him ine EVERY one of them, including games of 30, 30, 30, 32, 46, and even 50 points on him. He faced Reed in two of them, outscoring him in both, and with games of 21 and 23 points. He faced Thurmond in three of them, outscoring him in two. He faced Bellamy in two, outscoring him in one. And he faced Kareem in two of them, splitting them 1-1.

Wilt averaged 37.3 ppg in the first 13 games which came in his "scoring" seasons (from the 59-60 season thru the 65-66 season.)

Overall, Chamberlain averaged an even 27.0 ppg in the entire 35 games. His starting opposing centers averaged 14.5 ppg. Keep in mind that he battled Russell, Thurmond, Kareem, Reed, and Bellamy in many of those games.

I came up with a known 28 games, out of the 35, in which I could find Wilt's rebounding totals. In those known 28 games, he averaged 26.1 rpg. I could only find his opposing starting center's rebounding totals in 19 of those games, and in those, Chamberlain held a 15-4 edge ( being outrebounded by Russell in one of them, 22-21, and 25-24 in another; and Kareem by margins of 15-12 and 25-24 in the other two.) In those 19 games, his opposing center averaged 18.9 rpg. Here again, that was ALL of Russell's games, and the known Kareem, Thurmond, and Reed games.

However, there was a HUGE possibility that not only did Wilt every one of the other 16 H2H games, many of them were probably by staggering margins. In any case, I feel comfortable in claiming that Wilt held at least a 30-5 margin in H2H rebounding with his starting centers in those 35 games (and quite possibly it was even a 32-3 margin.)

Since we know that Chamberlain shot 133 for 229 in his 11 "absolute limit" games, or .581, I went thru the rest of the 35 games to see how many more I could find in which we have Wilt's FG%. I found his other known FG-FGAs at 123 of 211. So, in the known games, Chamberlain shot 256-440 or .582.

In the known games by his opposing centers, they collectively shot 74-179, or .413 (again, in the known games.)

So, in the known games, Chamberlain outshot his opposing starting centers, .582 to .413. BTW, he faced Kareem in two of those "must-win" games, and held him to a combined 23-60, or .383!

[B]The bottom line... we know that Chamberlain outscored his opposing centers in his entire 35 absolute elimination/clinching games, by a 27.0 ppg to 14.5
ppg margin. And he outscored them in 29 of his 35 games. In the known rebounding games, Chamberlain held a 26.1 rpg to 18.9 rpg edge (and if we had all of the totals it would have probably been by a considerably larger margin.) Furthermore, he held a 15-4 edge in those 19 games, and it probably would have been by at least a 30-5 margin had we had all of those games. And in the known FG% games, Wilt outshot his opposing centers by an astonishing .582 to .413 margin.[/B]

That was Wilt "the loser" and the "choker" in his "must-win", and/or "clinching game performances in his post-season career.

[IMG]http://images.wikia.com/fhif/images/d/d7/Wilt.png[/IMG]

The idiotic Bill Simmons claims that Wilt "shrunk" in the post-season, particularly in BIG games.

Had he actually done any real research into Wilt's post-season career, he would have found that Wilt averaged 27.0 ppg in his 35 "must-win" and/or clinching games. Meanwhile, his starting opposing centers averaged 14.5 ppg in those 35 games. He also outscored his opposing starting center in 29 of those 35 games, including a 19-0 edge in his first 19 games of those 35. Furthermore, in his 13 games which came in his "scoring" seasons (from 59-60 thru 65-66), Chamberlain averaged 37.3 ppg in those "do-or-die" or clinching games. And there were MANY games in which he just CRUSHED his opposing centers in those games (e.g. he outscored Kerr in one them, 53-7.)

Wilt had THREE of his four 50+ point post-season games, in these "elimination games", including two in "at the limit" games, and another against Russell in a "must-win" game. He also had games of 46-34 and 45-27 (and only 4 months removed from major knee surgery) in these types of games. In addition he had games of 39 and 38 in clinching wins.

In the known 19 games in which we have both Wilt's, and his starting opposing center's rebounding numbers, Chamberlain outrebounded them in 15 of them, and by an average margin of 26.1 rpg to 18.9 rpg. And, had we had all 35 of the totals, it would have been by a considerably larger margin. A conservative estimate would put Wilt with at least a 30-5 overall edge in those 35 games. He also had games, even against the likes of Russell, and in "must-win" situations, where he just MURDERED his opposing centers (e.g. he had one clinching game, against Russell, in which he outrebounded him by a 36-21 margin.)

And finally, in the known FG% games in which we have, Chamberlain not only shot an eye-popping .582 in those "do-or-die" games, but he held his opposing centers to a combined .413 FG%. BTW, he played against Kareem in two "clinching" games, and held Abdul-Jabbar to a combined .383 shooting in those two games.

The bottom line, in the known games of the 35 that Wilt played in that involved a "must-win" or clincher, Wilt averaged 27 ppg, 26.1 rpg, and shot .582 (and the 27 ppg figure was known for all 35 of those games.)

And once again, Chamberlain played in 11 games which went to the series limit (nine game seven's, one game five of a best-of-five series, and one game three of a best-of-three series), and all he did was average 29.9 ppg (outscoring his opposing center by a 29.9 ppg to 9.8 ppg margin in the process), with 26.7 rpg, and on .581 shooting. Or he was an eye-lash away from averaging a 30-27 game, and on nearly .600 shooting, in those 11 "at the limit" games.


Oh, and BTW, Chamberlain's TEAMs went 24-11 in those 35 games, too.

That was the same player that Simmons basically labeled a "loser", and a "choker", and who "shrunk" in his BIG games.

[QUOTE=jlauber]The idiotic Bill Simmons claims that Wilt "shrunk" in the post-season, particularly in BIG games.

Had he actually done any real research into Wilt's post-season career, he would have found that Wilt averaged 27.0 ppg in his 35 "must-win" and/or clinching games. Meanwhile, his starting opposing centers averaged 14.5 ppg in those 35 games. He also outscored his opposing starting center in 29 of those 35 games, including a 19-0 edge in his first 19 games of those 35. Furthermore, in his 13 games which came in his "scoring" seasons (from 59-60 thru 65-66), Chamberlain averaged 37.3 ppg in those "do-or-die" or clinching games. And there were MANY games in which he just CRUSHED his opposing centers in those games (e.g. he outscored Kerr in one them, 53-7.)

Wilt had THREE of his four 50+ point post-season games, in these "elimination games", including two in "at the limit" games, and another against Russell in a "must-win" game. He also had games of 46-34 and 45-27 (and only 4 months removed from major knee surgery) in these types of games. In addition he had games of 39 and 38 in clinching wins.

In the known 19 games in which we have both Wilt's, and his starting opposing center's rebounding numbers, Chamberlain outrebounded them in 15 of them, and by an average margin of 26.1 rpg to 18.9 rpg. And, had we had all 35 of the totals, it would have been by a considerably larger margin. A conservative estimate would put Wilt with at least a 30-5 overall edge in those 35 games. He also had games, even against the likes of Russell, and in "must-win" situations, where he just MURDERED his opposing centers (e.g. he had one clinching game, against Russell, in which he outrebounded him by a 36-21 margin.)

And finally, in the known FG% games in which we have, Chamberlain not only shot an eye-popping .582 in those "do-or-die" games, but he held his opposing centers to a combined .413 FG%. BTW, he played against Kareem in two "clinching" games, and held Abdul-Jabbar to a combined .383 shooting in those two games.

The bottom line, in the known games of the 35 that Wilt played in that involved a "must-win" or clincher, Wilt averaged 27 ppg, 26.1 rpg, and shot .582 (and the 27 ppg figure was known for all 35 of those games.)

And once again, Chamberlain played in 11 games which went to the series limit (nine game seven's, one game five of a best-of-five series, and one game three of a best-of-three series), and all he did was average 29.9 ppg (outscoring his opposing center by a 29.9 ppg to 9.8 ppg margin in the process), with 26.7 rpg, and on .581 shooting. Or he was an eye-lash away from averaging a 30-27 game, and on nearly .600 shooting, in those 11 "at the limit" games.


Oh, and BTW, Chamberlain's TEAMs went 24-11 in those 35 games, too.

That was the same player that Simmons basically labeled a "loser", and a "choker", and who "shrunk" in his BIG games.[/QUOTE]


Have you read Simmons book?

[QUOTE=-23-]Have you read Simmons book?[/QUOTE]

I read the entire Russell-Wilt chapter. It was a complete JOKE.

[QUOTE=jlauber]I read the entire Russell-Wilt chapter. It was a complete JOKE.[/QUOTE]
Simmons claims that Wilt was gay.

[QUOTE=jlauber]I read the entire Russell-Wilt chapter. It was a complete JOKE.[/QUOTE]


How exactly was it a joke when he pulled articles, quotes, and general observations from the game? I read his whole book, and I thought it was interesting to see what other players felt about Wilt. It seems only after he'd died that other players seemed to "respect" his game.

[QUOTE=millwad]Simmons claims that Wilt was gay.[/QUOTE]

Even if it were true, and I seriously doubt it, so what? What did that have to do with Chamberlain's on court performances?

OP is butthurt but it does not change the fact that Kareem = GOAT

[QUOTE=-23-]How exactly was it a joke when he pulled articles, quotes, and general observations from the game? I read his whole book, and I thought it was interesting to see what other players felt about Wilt. It seems only after he'd died that other players seemed to "respect" his game.[/QUOTE]

He SELECTIVELY pulled quotes. Psileas, La Frescobaldi, and myself came up with a TON of quotes, from peers, and when Chamberlain was ALIVE, that ripped those quotes to shreds...many by the SAME players.

It has also become apparent that he blatantly LIED about the Lakers taking a team vote in 1965 against trading for Wilt. I have never found one shred of evidence that substantiates that point.

He also claimed that Wilt was twice "traded for pennies on the dollar."

Read MY take on that...

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=223621[/url]

Or that Russell played with about the same number of HOF teammates. The REALITY was, Russell played alongside his HOF teammates in 71 FULL seasons (both regular season and post-season), while Wilt collectively played 20 FULL seasons with his HOF teammates.

[QUOTE=jlauber]Even if it were true, and I seriously doubt it, so what? What did that have to do with Chamberlain's on court performances?[/QUOTE]
Nothing.
Jlauber, just interested, if Wilt was alive now and lets say he was gay and interested in you, would you hook up with him?

[QUOTE=millwad]Nothing.
Jlauber, just interested, if Wilt was alive now and lets say he was gay and interested in you, would you hook up with him?[/QUOTE]

YOU were the one who brought it up...it seems like YOU would be more interested in that than I would.

[QUOTE=jlauber]He SELECTIVELY pulled quotes. Psileas, La Frescobaldi, and myself came up with a TON of quotes, from peers, and when Chamberlain was ALIVE, that ripped those quotes to shreds...many by the SAME players.

It has also become apparent that he blatantly LIED about the Lakers taking a team vote in 1965 against trading for Wilt. I have never found one shred of evidence that substantiates that point.

He also claimed that Wilt was twice "traded for pennies on the dollar."

Read MY take on that...

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=223621[/url]

Or that Russell played with about the same number of HOF teammates. The REALITY was, Russell played alongside his HOF teammates in 71 FULL seasons (both regular season and post-season), while Wilt collectively played 20 FULL seasons with his HOF teammates.[/QUOTE]

Then what's with the conflicting quotes? :no: There was a recent article on NBA.com that basically echoed what Simmons was saying. Cherry picking "oh wilt was great" quotes isn't nearly as consistent as people who BAG on Wilt from quotes in the past, and quotes NOW.

I have one question, jlauber: do you honestly think people who disagree with you read through even 20% of these long-ass posts?

[QUOTE=jlauber]YOU were the one who brought it up...it seems like YOU would be more interested in that than I would.[/QUOTE]
I did not mean to offend you but you seem to have a crazy mancrush on him.

[QUOTE=-23-]Then what's with the conflicting quotes? :no: There was a recent article on NBA.com that basically echoed what Simmons was saying. Cherry picking "oh wilt was great" quotes isn't nearly as consistent as people who BAG on Wilt from quotes in the past, and quotes NOW.[/QUOTE]

I am not going to take the time to look up quotes by peers that have bashed other "greats." Kareem, MJ, and Russell were certainly not well liked by at least some of their peers.

Oscar, West, and even Russell ALL proclaimed Chamberlain as the GOAT at some point BEFORE Wilt died. I believe Bird did as well.

[QUOTE=Pushxx]I have one question, jlauber: do you honestly think people who disagree with you read through even 20% of these long-ass posts?[/QUOTE]
No one reads them really, he even bumped his own essays and filled it up with new ones...

[QUOTE=millwad]I did not mean to offend you but you seem to have a crazy mancrush on him.[/QUOTE]

You didn't offend me at all. I could not care less if Chamberlain were gay. And I have no more of a "man-crush" on him, than you do on Hakeem.

[QUOTE=Pushxx]I have one question, jlauber: do you honestly think people who disagree with you read through even 20% of these long-ass posts?[/QUOTE]

I always find these responses fascinating. I have read posts, like this one, in which the poster claims to have not read my post...yet, he will then argue certain points in his (or her's) replies.

The fact that someone even takes the time to post a response in these topics is all I need to read. Clearly, they are taking the time to read them.

[QUOTE=jlauber]You didn't offend me at all. I could not care less if Chamberlain were gay. And I have no more of a "man-crush" on him, than you do on Hakeem.[/QUOTE]
You do, I like Hakeem's game but I would never spend the amount of time on him as you do regsrding Wilt. Only a few of my posts are about him and only in relevant threads. You only discuss Wilt and you write extremely long posts about him...

[QUOTE=millwad]No one reads them really, he even bumped his own essays and filled it up with new ones...[/QUOTE]

And yet you manage to take the time to pop in and respond in nearly all of them.

[QUOTE=millwad]You do, I like Hakeem's game but I would never spend the amount of time on him as you do regsrding Wilt. Only a few of my posts are about him and only in relevant threads. You only discuss Wilt and you write extremely long posts about him...[/QUOTE]

Here again, you go OUT OF YOUR WAY to DISPARAGE Wilt in nearly EVERY topic about him. I occasionally respond to Hakeem topics, and only to provide a dose of reality to those that proclaim him as some kind of GOAT.

[QUOTE=jlauber]And yet you manage to take the time to pop in and respond in nearly all of them.[/QUOTE]
You are a funny gay, no hatin'.

[QUOTE=millwad]You are a funny gay, no hatin'.[/QUOTE]

Here again, I have nothing against "gays", but I have been married to my wife for over 31 years.

Having said that, this is a SPORTS forum, and is not really the place to post your gay and racial insults, or personal attacks on other posters like 32Dayz.

[QUOTE=jlauber]Here again, I have nothing against "gays", but I have been married to my wife for over 31 years.

Having said that, this is a SPORTS forum, and is not really the place to post your gay and racial insults, or personal attacks on other posters like 32Dayz.[/QUOTE]
I meant guy. And regarding insult, you have insult ALOT of posters with your childish namecalling. As soon as someone doesn't agree with you, you make up names... :facepalm

[QUOTE=jlauber]I am not going to take the time to look up quotes by peers that have bashed other "greats." Kareem, MJ, and Russell were certainly not well liked by at least some of their peers.

Oscar, West, and even Russell ALL proclaimed Chamberlain as the GOAT at some point BEFORE Wilt died. I believe Bird did as well.[/QUOTE]


And in no way is Wilt in any discussion for GOAT.

[QUOTE=-23-]How exactly was it a joke when he pulled articles, quotes, and general observations from the game? I read his whole book, and I thought it was interesting to see what other players felt about Wilt. It seems only after he'd died that other players seemed to "respect" his game.[/QUOTE]

If they didn't respect him, it was because the fear was blocking that emotion. For ten years he was most likely to outscore, outrebound, outblock anybody on the court. And for most of that time he was likely to do it unlike anybody in the sport would ever do it, even 60 years later. For ten years you didn't know when a a massive 55/35 triple double might be had on your team. When focused he could assist as good as anybody in the game. And if that wasn't enough, he might have had the best defensive year ever as well. In Shaq's most dominant scoring year he had one/tenth the separation Wilt had one year. Yeah, 1/10th!

Wilt wasn't into intimidation in a physically aggressive manner, but he did dislocate one of the strongest guys in the games arm by blocking his dunk attempt. He did pick up Bob Lanier (one of the games biggest players) just to let him know how boxing out could work. Tex Winters spies on Wilt taking a couple of steps and leaping from the foul line to dunk the ball. These things leak out, incidental stories about his strength and agility. Do you really think he wasn't respected?

I have a question for Jlauber.

How come you go with stats for Wilt in the Wilt vs Russell debate.. look to excuse Wilt for his not so good performances (in some seasons) with an edge in HOFers.. and not to do the same in the Wilt vs Kareem debates, where the latter has a statistical edge in their battles?

This is just a fair question. Why the double standard? After all, you respected the greats of the game, don't you?

[QUOTE=-23-]And in no way is Wilt in any discussion for GOAT.[/QUOTE]

Chamberlain was the greatest basketball player of all time. Nobody is even close.

Sorry but you never watched him or you'd never even think that.

Outside of Boston, the 1960s wasn't a fun time to be a hoops fan save for 1967.

All Russell all the time.

If this site was around, you'd have heard a lot of "Wake me up when Bill Russell doesn't win the title for once."

[QUOTE=PTB Fan]I have a question for Jlauber.

How come you go with stats for Wilt in the Wilt vs Russell debate.. look to excuse Wilt for his not so good performances (in some seasons) with an edge in HOFers.. and not to do the same in the Wilt vs Kareem debates, where the latter has a statistical edge in their battles?

This is just a fair question. Why the double standard? After all, you respected the greats of the game, don't you?[/QUOTE]
**************************************
Chamberlain had an edge in Hall of Famers????????????????????????????

Chamberlain's teammates AND HOW MANY SEASONS HE PLAYED WITH THEM:
Baylor 4
West 5
Greer 4
Cunningham 3 (anyone remember BC breaking his arm in the 68 playoffs?)
Arizin 3
Thurmond 2
Gola 3
Total: 24 seasons together.

Baylor? from the 69-70 season right through the end of his career in 71-72 he played 65 games. He never played a full season with Chamberlain.
And it's interesting that Chamberlain wrecked his knee in 69 and missed the season. And it's interesting that Baylor & West both missed the '71 playoffs.

**********************************************

Russell?

Russell's teammates AND HOW MANY SEASONS RUSSELL PLAYED WITH THEM:
Havlicek 7
Cousy 7
Sharman 5
Sam Jones 12

Lovellette played two partial seasons with Russell, and limited minutes so we won't count him.

Risen 2
Embry 2
Howell 3
Ramsey 8
KC Jones 8 (full seasons, and another, his ninth was partial)
Sanders 9
Heinsohn 9


[B]Russell had 71-24 edge in HOF seasons with his teammates over Chamberlain. [/B]

What the heck are you talkin' about?

[QUOTE=Pointguard]If they didn't respect him, it was because the fear was blocking that emotion. For ten years he was most likely to outscore, outrebound, outblock anybody on the court. And for most of that time he was likely to do it unlike anybody in the sport would ever do it, even 60 years later. For ten years you didn't know when a a massive 55/35 triple double might be had on your team. When focused he could assist as good as anybody in the game. And if that wasn't enough, he might have had the best defensive year ever as well. [B]In Shaq's most dominant scoring year he had one/tenth the separation Wilt had one year. Yeah, 1/10th!
[/B]
Wilt wasn't into intimidation in a physically aggressive manner, but he did dislocate one of the strongest guys in the games arm by blocking his dunk attempt. He did pick up Bob Lanier (one of the games biggest players) just to let him know how boxing out could work. Tex Winters spies on Wilt taking a couple of steps and leaping from the foul line to dunk the ball. These things leak out, incidental stories about his strength and agility. Do you really think he wasn't respected?[/QUOTE]

That just means there is more parity in the league. Cherry picking stats is pointless.