Magic - PG
Jordan - SG
Hakeem - C
Barkley - PF
Bird - SF
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Magic - PG
Jordan - SG
Hakeem - C
Barkley - PF
Bird - SF
[QUOTE=gengiskhan]Magic - PG
Jordan - SG
Hakeem - C
Barkley - PF
Bird - SF[/QUOTE]
Magic bird and barkley would be definsive liabilities.
[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]lebron doesnt understand the concept of sharing when he plays with other superstars
hes almost averaging 30 on a team with wade and bosh... and a bunch of great complimentary players
i just think birds a better team player and better suited for the sf position on a stacked roster[/QUOTE]
Wow really.He is averaging %55 for a wing player even Jordan didnt come close to that.BTW he is only averaging 18 shots per game.So actually you are blaming him for averaging that kind of numbers on just 18 shots per game.Wow i understand you hate the guy but come on.What do you want him to average.Actually i want him to take at least 24-25 shots because of his efficiency.This is how you win the ball game.Learn the game please
Bird in his second year averaged 18.3 shots same number of shots lebron averaging right now and only averaged 21.2ppg for the season.Come on son.
You are sinking like titanic right now.
He is actually much better defender than bird.Dont forget bird and jordan personalities would not mesh.However Lebron and Jordan would.
[QUOTE=97 bulls]My point was that were picking the best possible starting 5 and one 6th man. The talent level would be so high that I just could see myself picking guys that are clearly weak or deficient at something as important as offense and defense. Then I gotta factor in that chemisrty is a must and egos must be checked at the door. Everyone knows jordan would be the go to guy. Pippen would be my ball handler and main perimeter defender. James athleticism and ability to fill any void would be huge, while duncan, and olajuwan and garnett are great midrange shooters and can controll the paint definsively.
I feel I could expose magic and birds bad man defense or russell inept offense.[/QUOTE]
exactly defense and chemistry is much more important.You are gonna have offense no matter what.This is why neither magic nor birds deserves a spot in this team.Dont get me wrong they were good defenders but far from great.Lebron Jordan and even Pippen would blow by them every time.
[QUOTE=arifgokcen]Mine
C-Hakeem
PF-Garnett
SF-Lebron
SG-Jordan
PG-Payton
Lockdown nobody moves:D[/QUOTE]
This, except i would have Pippen at SF and have LeBron as 6th man.
[QUOTE=97 bulls]I flirted with the idea of including a players specific year. But as someeone stated, players don't change that much year to year. The situations and circumstances do.
I've met bill russell about 15 years ago. He's nowhere near 6'11. I know people kinda shrink as they get old, but russell looked to be about 6'8.[/QUOTE]
Yes i know. He would be listed at 6"10.5 /6"11 in todays NBA because they measure players in their shoes (i'm pretty sure they still do anyway). He is/was a legit 6"9 barefoot.
[QUOTE=arifgokcen]exactly defense and chemistry is much more important.You are gonna have offense no matter what.This is why neither magic nor birds deserves a spot in this team.Dont get me wrong they were good defenders but far from great.Lebron Jordan and even Pippen would blow by them every time.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. I mean, let's face it, when your playing with great players, I mean the greatest players, you don't want to be weak anywhere. For instance, I love stockton, but he's getting posted up if he playing teams whose pg is payton (3 inches taller) or magic (8 inches taller), or pippen (whose 7 inches taller).
Then I ve seen some guys have jordan, kobe and wilt in the lineup, there's only one ball.
[QUOTE=lilblingy]This, except i would have Pippen at SF and have LeBron as 6th man.[/QUOTE]
Yeah could be.However i dont think Pippen outside shot is too suspect even though lebron is not that good he is considerably better than pippen and their defense is actually pretty similar they can lock down anybody when focused and their help defense is just as good however lebron is much better offensively so i gave the nod to Lebron and bring Rodman off the bench because in his prime he could guard anybody from centers to pgs.Anyway you cant go wrong with either of them.
[QUOTE=97 bulls]
Then I ve seen some guys have jordan, kobe and wilt in the lineup, there's only one ball.[/QUOTE]
Should throw in 2 other balls:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
[QUOTE=arifgokcen]Should throw in 2 other balls:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:[/QUOTE]
Lol true. Im actually amazed at how many people ar picking pippen
Mine
C: Wilt Chamberlain
PF: Larry Bird
SF: Magic Johnson
SG: Michael Jordan
PG: Gary Payton
6th: Charles Barkley
[QUOTE=97 bulls]Lol true. Im actually amazed at how many people ar picking pippen[/QUOTE]
Indeed i still think lebron is much better offensive player and their defense is not that far off.BTW,I dont think anyone remembers who payton really is.Because i don't think as one on one defender,he literally shut down Jordan.Yes he literally shut down Jordan.I have watched jordan my whole life i dont remember any player beside payton who frustrated him.Payton should definitely be in that line-up
Anyway thats just me
[QUOTE=97 bulls][B]I flirted with the idea of including a players specific year. But as someeone stated, players don't change that much year to year. The situations and circumstances do. [/B]
I've met bill russell about 15 years ago. He's nowhere near 6'11. I know people kinda shrink as they get old, but russell looked to be about 6'8.[/QUOTE]
Alright, but just out of interest, if you had to choose, which versions of your picks would you select?
[QUOTE=barnett114]Mine
C: Wilt Chamberlain
PF: Larry Bird
SF: Magic Johnson
SG: Michael Jordan
PG: Gary Payton
6th: Charles Barkley[/QUOTE]
Larry Bird at PF would get eaten alive by Malone,Duncan,Garnett et.
[QUOTE=WillC]C - [B]Wilt Chamberlain[/B]
PF - [B]Bill Russell[/B]
SF - [B]Larry Bird[/B]
SG - [B]Michael Jordan[/B]
PG - [B]Magic Johnson[/B]
6th Man - [B]Kareem Abdul-Jabbar[/B]
I believe these are the six best basketball players of all-time. Not only that, but their skills complement each other perfectly: Bird and Magic's selfless team-play, Jordan's killer instinct, Russell's defense and intangibles, Wilt's rebounding (I'd actually prefer the old Lakers Wilt for this team, rather than the young Sixers/Warriors Wilt) and Kareem's unstoppable offense.[/QUOTE]
Not to be unoriginal, but this would be my 6 as well.
With no parameters set, grab the best of the best, bar none.
[QUOTE=97 bulls]To many of us are picking our favorite players as opposed to a team that's would have great chemistry. I mean, you can pick any players you want, why would you pick guys that are liabilities like bird, magic, russell, and rodman?
PG Pippen
SG Jordan
SF James
PF Duncan
C Olajuwan
6th Garnett
That tean can shoot, pass, play man defense, help defense, rebound, post up, has size, athleticism, speed, intangibles, can switch everything, and are versitle. And all can play multiple positions.[/QUOTE]
The one thing you don't have is outside shooting. You have 3 wing players that will primarily be looking to drive to the hoop. That could be a problem if your opposition decides to clog the lane.
GOAT wise-
C- Kareem
PF- Duncan
SF- Bird
SG- MJ
PG- Magic
Sixth Man- Wilt
If I could pick my own team:
C- Hakeem
PF- KG
SF- Bird
SG- MJ
PG- Magic
Sixth Man- Lebron
I like the idea of Bron coming of the bench as sixth man for versatility reasons. He can play and defend four positions. This team is so damn versatile! And the defensive liabilities that Magic and Bird had (it never stopped them from being top 5-6 GOAT so I think it's overrated to be concerned about that to a degree) would be covered up by four of the premier and most versatile defenders of all time.
hmmm, id like to see
Kidd, Ray Allen, Bird, Rodman, Wilt
Sixth man...Mullin
[QUOTE=arifgokcen]Should throw in 2 other balls:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:[/QUOTE]
1967 Wilt. Almost averaged a triple double in the playoffs because of assists.
Led the league in assists. :pimp:
I'd worry about the other two unless you picked 1962 Wilt. In which case. :facepalm :lol
C-Hakeem Olajuwan
PF-Kevin Garnett
SF-Scottie Pippen
SG-Michael Jordan
PG-Gary Payton
6th man-LeBron James
half the teams in here would have severe spacing problems, gotta mix it up with shooters and primary offensive threats, no need to have a first option slasher at every position. payton, mj, lebron? ehhh
lol @ the bulls homer calling bird, magic, and russell "liabilities" in any regard
gimme jordan and stockton in the back court, totally unselfish pg who can fill any role you need from him, among the headiest to ever play the game. and, uhh, mike. defensively, it's not a jordan/payton combo but the passing lanes would be made very dangerous.
at the sf slot... gotta be bird i guess. nobody else pops out. he can shoot and lol @ his being a liability in any regard by any stretch of the imagination. just because he isn't godly at the defensive end of the floor, doesn't mean he couldn't man up when he had to. plus he's got back up, in the form of....
my pf has to be kg. another guy who prefers to be selfless, creates havoc on defense with his length, can defend the rim, and most importantly, has that knock down 18 footer to go with his face up game if we need him to score for us.... timmy was close but it was perimeter shooting that gave kg the edge. i also debated going with dirk here but garnett's too good defensively and on the boards to pass up.
and he'd be twinned with... tough call between shaq and dream but i'm going with versatility and personality here. less clashing egos with hakeem on the floor and he's still got crazy defensive presence.
6th man goes to magic, just because of his ability to play multiple positions since we only have one guy off the bench. also another unselfish perfectly compatible personality.
John Stockton
Michael Jordan
Larry Bird
Kevin Garnett
Hakeem Olajuwon
Magic Johnson
this is among the best passing squads you could possibly put together. ball movement and off ball movement will be a blur. defensively, man for man, you could probably argue that it's weaker than if i had, say, payton or pippen replacing stock or bird, but you've got to prioritize. with KG and Hakeem defending the rim, you could have roger mason defending the point and not suffer too much. and neither stockton or bird equate to roger mason. they're more than good enough defensively with those bigs.
offense would flat out flow, and with Magic in the game, it'd turn run and gun in a second. everybody can pass, but more importantly, everybody's willing to pass. everybody is also a threat from just about anywhere.
and with the game on the line, no question whose hands to put the ball into. if you've got MJ, you don't need anybody else who can take over... though if you have to include somebody else with that mentality, Bird is your man.
lastly, chemistry wise, nobody is disruptive on this team. they all fit together like clockwork. personalities and games mesh beautifully.
i win (in my humble opinion of course)
[B]C: Wilt
PF: Barkley
SF: Bird
SG: Jordan
PG: Magic
6thman: Hakeem [/B]
There is no other player that could absolutely dominate in EVERY area (alright, he was not a good FT shooter, BUT, he DREW a TON of fouls), than Chamberlain. A mid-60's Wilt was the greatest all-around center of all-time, and yes, it is still not even close.
In his 65-66 season, he not only averaged 33.5 ppg, 24.6 rpg, 5.2 apg, and shot .540 (in a league that shot .433), he was CRUSHING his opposing centers. He BLEW AWAY Thurmond, Russell, and Bellamy in H2H's, and I mean BLEW them AWAY. Incidently find me another player who LED the NBA in scoring, rebounding, and FG% at the SAME TIME in the SAME SEASON (only Chamberlain achieved that feat, and he did it THREE times.)
And in his 66-67 season, he "only" averaged 24.1 ppg, but he had several 40+ point games, with an NBA high of 58 (on 26-34 shooting.) Once again, when he was asked to score, he even pounded Thurmond (In an early season encounter, he had only scored six points in the first half. His coach asked him to take it to Nate in the 2nd half, and he responded with 24 second half points.) He also shot a mind-numbing .683 from the field (in a league that shot .441.) He was way ahead of the next guy in rebounding at 24.2 rpg. And, he handed out 7.8 apg. And those that saw him play at around that time would claim he was on par with Russell defensively.
And in the playoffs, he MURDERED both Russell and Thurmond, too. Not only that, but overall, in that post-season, he averaged 21.7 ppg, 29.1 rpg, 9.2 apg, and shot .579 (while holding Dierking, Russell, and Thurmond to .427, .358, and .343 shooting.)
In his 67-68 season, he had one of the greatest Defensive Win Share seasons in NBA history (7th greatest all-time, and only Russell had higher seasons.) And while he "only averaged 24.3 ppg) he hung games of 52, 53, 53, and 68 on the league. He ran away with the rebounding title (by nearly FIVE per game.) He shot .595 (in a league that shot .446.) AND, he LED the NBA in ASSISTS. BTW, find me another player who LED the NBA in rebounding, FG%, and assists at the SAME TIME in the SAME SEASON.
And here was an interesting stat-line from one of Chamberlain's games in that 67-68 season. He scored 53 points, on 24-29 shooting, with 32 rebounds, 14 assists, and 7 blocks. In another game that season, he put up a 68 point, 37 rebound game. In yet another game that year, he put up the ONLY 20-20-20 game in NBA history (22 points, 25 rebounds, and 21 assists.)
In any case, he could do it ALL. Incidently, Rick Barry, who won the scoring title in that '67 season, at 35.6 ppg, "thanked" Wilt for letting him win the scoring crown. Virtually everyone in the league knew that had Wilt wanted to, he would have easily won yet another scoring title. And at his peak, he just overwhelmed his opposing centers in rebounding and FG%.
BTW, in his 65-66, 66-67, and 67-68 seasons, Wilt led his team's to the BEST record in the league (55-25, 68-13, and 62-20.)
Here again, how many other all-time greats were asked to change their games as much as Wilt (and yet he excelled in ANY role)? The FACT was, Wilt could BLEND in with ANY roster, and assume ANY role. So, if you needed your center to completely shut down the lane, and another high-scoring center; or absolutely own the glass; or hand out 10+ assists; or pour in a 50-60 point game, and on phenomenal effciency; or ALL of them at the SAME TIME...name me a better center to hand that task to, than a mid-60's Chamberlain.
[QUOTE=oolalaa]The one thing you don't have is outside shooting. You have 3 wing players that will primarily be looking to drive to the hoop. That could be a problem if your opposition decides to clog the lane.[/QUOTE]
Your right about the lack of outside shooting, but I think they're good enough. There's always a trade-off. Most great shooters aren't great at penetrating or defense. I think james and pippens jumpshots are decent enough to be respected.
[QUOTE=oolalaa]That's a good team (mine would best yours though :oldlol: ) but what versions of your picks would you choose? e.g '62 or '67 Wilt? '65 or '69 West? etc[/QUOTE]
Wilt Chamberlain 66-68
Jerry West 68-70
Kareem 71-74
Bird 84-87
Jordan 89-91
Magic ........... 1981-84
Sorry but Timmy Dunkin is not stopping Kareem. Stopping / slowing down O'Neil is not the same thing as trying to battle the Kareem Abdul Jabbar that was facing Nate Thurmond, Wilt Chamberlain, Dave Cowens and Bob Lanier.
And nobody is stopping Chamberlain & nor are they getting by him (in fact you know who is reminding me a little of Chamberlain on defense this season in terms of being able to time his blocks is Serge)....
those other guys you got will have to either shadow box, or else put up a mirror on the court i dunno
[B]C-[/B] Hakeem
[B]PF-[/B] Garnett
[B]SF-[/B] Bird
[B]SG-[/B] Jordan
[B]PG-[/B] Magic
[B]6th Man- [/B]Lebron
[QUOTE=RidonKs]half the teams in here would have severe spacing problems, gotta mix it up with shooters and primary offensive threats, no need to have a first option slasher at every position. payton, mj, lebron? ehhh
lol @ the bulls homer calling bird, magic, and russell "liabilities" in any regard
gimme jordan and stockton in the back court, totally unselfish pg who can fill any role you need from him, among the headiest to ever play the game. and, uhh, mike. defensively, it's not a jordan/payton combo but the passing lanes would be made very dangerous.
at the sf slot... gotta be bird i guess. nobody else pops out. he can shoot and lol @ his being a liability in any regard by any stretch of the imagination. just because he isn't godly at the defensive end of the floor, doesn't mean he couldn't man up when he had to. plus he's got back up, in the form of....
my pf has to be kg. another guy who prefers to be selfless, creates havoc on defense with his length, can defend the rim, and most importantly, has that knock down 18 footer to go with his face up game if we need him to score for us.... timmy was close but it was perimeter shooting that gave kg the edge. i also debated going with dirk here but garnett's too good defensively and on the boards to pass up.
and he'd be twinned with... tough call between shaq and dream but i'm going with versatility and personality here. less clashing egos with hakeem on the floor and he's still got crazy defensive presence.
6th man goes to magic, just because of his ability to play multiple positions since we only have one guy off the bench. also another unselfish perfectly compatible personality.
John Stockton
Michael Jordan
Larry Bird
Kevin Garnett
Hakeem Olajuwon
Magic Johnson
this is among the best passing squads you could possibly put together. ball movement and off ball movement will be a blur. defensively, man for man, you could probably argue that it's weaker than if i had, say, payton or pippen replacing stock or bird, but you've got to prioritize. with KG and Hakeem defending the rim, you could have roger mason defending the point and not suffer too much. and neither stockton or bird equate to roger mason. they're more than good enough defensively with those bigs.
offense would flat out flow, and with Magic in the game, it'd turn run and gun in a second. everybody can pass, but more importantly, everybody's willing to pass. everybody is also a threat from just about anywhere.
and with the game on the line, no question whose hands to put the ball into. if you've got MJ, you don't need anybody else who can take over... though if you have to include somebody else with that mentality, Bird is your man.
lastly, chemistry wise, nobody is disruptive on this team. they all fit together like clockwork. personalities and games mesh beautifully.
i win (in my humble opinion of course)[/QUOTE]
Theres no way your squad could beat mine. Magic and bird would have a hard time staying in front of their man, and birds shooting would be negated cuz with jordan, pippen, and james, they would just switch everything. And don't forget the players switching are three of the best defenders ever. And how are they gonna run? Jordan can't be everywhere. And with stockton and bird, you lose athleticism.
As far as offense, magic and bird would get exposed. They were fortunate in that they were able to be hidden by playing the weaker guard (in magics case) or forward (in birds case) there would be no such luxery going against my team. And who's stockton gonna defend? He'd be giving away abpout 6-8 inches to my guards. I see a post opportunity. And while my team may not be as great passing as yours, they're still very good and willing passers.
My team would also have the rebounding and size advantage
[QUOTE=La Frescobaldi]Wilt Chamberlain 66-68
Jerry West 68-70
Kareem 71-74
Bird 84-87
Jordan 89-91
Magic ........... 1981-84
Sorry but Timmy Dunkin is not stopping Kareem. Stopping / slowing down O'Neil is not the same thing as trying to battle the Kareem Abdul Jabbar that was facing Nate Thurmond, Wilt Chamberlain, Dave Cowens and Bob Lanier.
And nobody is stopping Chamberlain & nor are they getting by him (in fact you know who is reminding me a little of Chamberlain on defense this season in terms of being able to time his blocks is Serge)....
those other guys you got will have to either shadow box, or else put up a mirror on the court i dunno[/QUOTE]
100% agreed. IMHO, you could use Magic from '81 (even late '80) thru '88, but I agree that those early years were much better than even he was given credit for. Of course, he proved how great he was in the '80 and '82 Finals in those years.
And I definitely agree with you about Kareem. He was at his most dominant point in his career in those '71 thru '74 seasons. In fact, he DECLINED after that. I get a kick out of those that somehow try to convince us that he was at his peak in his 76-77 season, based SOLELY on his playoff run. That post-season run involved a TOTAL of ELEVEN games, seven of which were against the Warriors. I either saw or listened to every one of his Blazer games, and in only ONE was he better player than Walton. Walton made every key play down the stretch in the other three games, and dominated those games in virtually every area. His outlet passing, his key rebounding, and his clutch shooting and DEFENSE against Kareem won that series.
Of course, Kareem was a great player. No one whould argue that. Overall, he was the best player in the decade of the 70's, but after his dominating second season, when he shredded the NBA, I think he leveled off, perhaps believing all of the hype,...that he would lead the Bucks to a "Celtic-type" Dynasty. There was no question that, when motivated, he was unstoppable. But almost anyone that was around in the 70's would agree with his legendary role in "Airplane", in which he was criticized for lack of effort.
Once again, if anyone really needed any evidence to support the above, just compare his 71-72 and 75-76 seasons. In his 71-72 season, he played 44.2 mpg, on a team that went 63-19 and had a +11.1 differential. He averaged 34.8 ppg, 16.6 rpg, and shot .574 that season. Then, after being traded to the Lakers before the start of the 75-76 season, and playing with an average, at best roster, he could only go 41.2 mpg, and while he won his only rebounding title in that season (barely edging 6-9 Cowens), he could only average 27.7 ppg, and on a .529 FG%, which was among his worst of the decade. Here again, how come he could seemingly score at will in his 71-72 season, as well as his 70-71 season, when he played 40.1 mpg, and averaged 31.7 ppg, 16.0 rpg, and shot .577...which was his career high differential against the league of .128), and doing so on teams that went 63-19 and 66-16, and that had differentials of +11.1 and +12.2 ppg...and yet, on a relatively poor team, that desperately needed him to step up, he shrunk.
And, once again, Bob McAdoo had no problem scoring in that 75-76 season, averaging 31.1 ppg (as well as 34.5 ppg the year before, and in a league that only averaged 102.6 ppg.)
And, while some here put that 76-77 on some kind of mythical pedestal, based on an 11 game run in the playoffs, his 53-29 team barely edged a near .500 Warrior team, and was SWEPT by a 49-33 Blazer team with a Walton at his absolute best.
The rest of the '70's, Kareem played well, but was nowhere near as dominant as he had been in the early 70's. He played with stacked rosters in both 77-78 and 78-79, and not only did those teams under-perform, with records of 45-37 and 47-35...they were routed by Sonic's teams that were marginally better (47-35 and 52-30), and with ONE borderline HOF player (Dennis Johnson.) How does a team with Jamaal Wilkes, who won a title with Rick Barry and a bunch of no-names in '75, Lou Hudson, Norm Nixon, and even an Adrian Dantley (who was averaging 26.5 ppg when LA acquired him), and Kareem not even make a DENT in the post-season, and in two straight seasons?
I have long maintained that had Magic not arrived in the 79-80 (and IMMEDIATELY made LA a 60-22 champion), Kareem would have retired sometime in the mid-80's, as a relative disappointment.
one of the guys asked about this very subject last night on a different thread, so, I was hoping y'all had some ideas on the question of who gets the starting job on the All-Time team....
I have a different approach to this than most people. I don't have an all-time team, I have all-time team[i]s[/i]. Each built around a Top 10 player with complementary players and a particular style of play. That way everyone can play the way they're actually accustomed to playing, and no one gets left off because everyone has his own team. I can pick a Top 10 GOAT player and he has his own custom-built team. That way it eliminates any "he had crappy teammates" talk, and puts everyone on equal footing.
Shaquille O
[QUOTE=arifgokcen]Mine
C-Hakeem
PF-Garnett
SF-Lebron
SG-Jordan
PG-Payton
Lockdown nobody moves:D[/QUOTE]
:oldlol: holding teams to the scoring average of your worst offensive option
[QUOTE=LemonMan]:oldlol: holding teams to the scoring average of your worst offensive option[/QUOTE]
yeah and not only that but he later on chose Dennis Rodman as his 6th man talk about some defensive prowess when that team walks on the floor !
Assuming the point is to win the game.
PG: Stockton
SG: Jordan
SF: Bird
PF: KG
C: Hakeem
6th man: LeBron James
Stockton isn't the best PG of all-time, but I want him running a team of superstars over Magic or Isiah. Jordan is a no-brainer. Bird is a perfect fit with superstar players because of his insane bball IQ. KG and Hakeem are there for defense, and their ability to score from inside and outside the paint. I don't see anyone in the history of the game beating this team in a 7 game series. Too much offense, too much defense, and too much bball IQ.
pg: Magic
sg: Kobe
sf: Pippen
pf: Duncan
c: Hakeem
6th man: Reggie Miller
Dream
Kevin Garnett
Pippen
MJ
JKidd
6 man- kobe Bryant. Prime kobe dropping 81 points off the f.ucken bench son.
[QUOTE=TheFan]Shaquille O
[B]People Here are Underrating Barkley a Bit.
The Dude Shot Like Shaq Inside the 3-Point Line.
Most Think He Was Just a Coast to Coast and Rebound Player. The Dude Had Great Handles, Could Pass The Ball Like a Guard and If You Don`t Double Team Him in the Post Your Dead Meat. [/B]
Jordan, Magic and Lebron can't be playing with ball dominant guys.
C - Kareem Abdul Jabbar
PF - Charles Barkley
SF - Larry Bird
SG - Michael Jordan
PG - Magic Johnson
6 Man: Wilt Chamberlain
unbeatable squad