The Mystery of Jerry West's Gorilla Wingspan

[QUOTE=La Frescobaldi]edit: forgot.... other thing about that quick shot? Jerry had a really unique trick, which as far as I know, he invented this.... he would dribble around the perimeter, like anybody (although amazingly fast) but at some point on the arc, known only to himself, he had a single hard dribble.

I mean he would slam that ball down [B]hard[/B]... and he would go into his jumpshot [I]without the ball[/I]. To the defender, it was another dribble...... but for Jerry, that hard bounce would fling the ball up to about his shoulder height... into his hands as they floated up..... and with those long arms he had a high release combined with the fact he was already IN THE AIR, WITH THE BALL... before the defender could react.
Result: another uncontested shot for the Logo

Kobe Bryant, [I]Master of All That Has Come Before[/I] has copied that move to an exact perfection that has given him a lot of buckets... over the years as his athleticism has declined he has honed his skills to a very fine sharpness indeed[/QUOTE]Very interesting piece of trivia Frescobaldi. :cheers:

[QUOTE=MichaelCheazley][B]Dwyane wade[/B]-
6'4 - 10.75"

I believe Alonzo mourning and[B] jason maxiell [/B]also have some ridiculous wingspans. Ike diogu and [B]joel anthony [/B]too.[/QUOTE]

Ha, You got my three! I would throw in Durant as well.

Wade seems to not jump much to get off dunks.

What I don't get is why are some guys with long arm spans are excellent shooters? In science you would figure the more leverage - the more things could go wrong.

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]

Yeah but also nobody [I]needs[/I] a wide wingspan in the NBA to be great. It's not just what you got, it's how you use it.[B] Kobe's probably got shorter arms than little Jerry West[/B] but Kobe does okay too :lol[/QUOTE]
Nah, his wingspan I believe is something like 6'11".

No definite numbers though.

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]

[IMG]https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-atJDaarULkc/T1F_MgiIbyI/AAAAAAAADIk/uuCcrBNRGYk/s640/Jerry%2520West%252081%2520inch%2520wingspan.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-JJZVMka2OJU/T1QR2PgVy6I/AAAAAAAADLo/jggrQX-qaOI/s640/1966%2520-%2520quickness%2520wins%2520rebounds%2520West%2520Wingspan.jpg[/IMG]
[/QUOTE]

[I]"Sloan doesn't have [B]Robertson's ability to hang in the air for what seems like seconds at a time[/B]."[/I]

This quote about Oscar Robertson is the more surprising one to me. I knew that he was more athletic than what he's given credit for, but I didn't know that he had a reputation for impressive "hang time." I remember reading in his autobiography his account of the incident which stopped him from dunking. It was either in high school or college. I think someone may have undercut him or something as he was going up for a dunk. It's been a while since I've read it though.

[QUOTE=La Frescobaldi]****************
edit: forgot.... other thing about that quick shot? Jerry had a really unique trick, which as far as I know, he invented this.... he would dribble around the perimeter, like anybody (although amazingly fast) but at some point on the arc, known only to himself, he had a single hard dribble.

I mean he would slam that ball down [B]hard[/B]... and he would go into his jumpshot [I]without the ball[/I]. To the defender, it was another dribble...... but for Jerry, that hard bounce would fling the ball up to about his shoulder height... into his hands as they floated up..... and with those long arms he had a high release combined with the fact he was already IN THE AIR, WITH THE BALL... before the defender could react.
Result: another uncontested shot for the Logo

Kobe Bryant, [I]Master of All That Has Come Before[/I] has copied that move to an exact perfection that has given him a lot of buckets... over the years as his athleticism has declined he has honed his skills to a very fine sharpness indeed[/QUOTE]
They do teach you that in camp (at least in the 80's). Magic would hard dribble to get leverage on a quick pass. Sometimes you will see Durant do it on the shot. Kobe does a lot of things textbook in style - D Rose too. Kobe and Magic used to always hard dribble. In their later years, not all the time. Kobe hard dribbles sometimes now to confuse the defender.

Wall has a pretty freakish wingspan as well, something in the 6'10 range if I remember correctly. He's going to be a scary defensive player once his effort becomes more consistent on that end.

[QUOTE=KenneBell]Nah, his wingspan I believe is something like 6'11".

No definite numbers though.[/QUOTE]

Kobe's wingspan is 6-10.

[QUOTE=La Frescobaldi]Yeah. I get a lot of grief from ISH people about it but I got Logo as the starting PG on my All-Time Starting 5

The only argument I can find for his spot is Magic which to me is true horns of the dilemma........ happily I find I can solve the conundrum perfectly by the fact, Magic is my 6th Man........ thus he plays the same minutes as everybody else, by floating for MJ, Logo, Larry Legend, and Kareem.

My center famously never came out of a game in 1962......... 48.5mpg for the season.
****************
edit: forgot.... other thing about that quick shot? Jerry had a really unique trick, which as far as I know, he invented this.... he would dribble around the perimeter, like anybody (although amazingly fast) but at some point on the arc, known only to himself, he had a single hard dribble.

I mean he would slam that ball down [B]hard[/B]... and he would go into his jumpshot [I]without the ball[/I]. To the defender, it was another dribble...... but for Jerry, that hard bounce would fling the ball up to about his shoulder height... into his hands as they floated up..... and with those long arms he had a high release combined with the fact he was already IN THE AIR, WITH THE BALL... before the defender could react.
Result: another uncontested shot for the Logo

Kobe Bryant, [I]Master of All That Has Come Before[/I] has copied that move to an exact perfection that has given him a lot of buckets... over the years as his athleticism has declined he has honed his skills to a very fine sharpness indeed[/QUOTE]

lol Don't worry Magic, you can be 6th man for my all-time starting 5.

-Smak

[QUOTE=Brunch@Five]John Ecker, who played with Kareem at UCLA and was my high school coach, told me that Kareem was able to grab money off the top of the backboard too.[/QUOTE]

Maybe you can find his quote in print, or an interview on YouTube then?

[QUOTE=jlauber]Maybe you can find his quote in print, or an interview on YouTube then?[/QUOTE]

he told me in person, so there isn't a quote anywhere on the internet, I'm sorry.

Wingspan always allowed guys not real real athletic to make great defensive plays.

I think the reason Pierce is a great defender at times is because his IQ and his wingspan... I think i remember in 97-98 they said he has like a 7'1 wingspan at 6'6 1/2 or something.

PP barely jumps on a lot of blocks he gets on players.

Anyone know KGs...

Paul Pierce is a legit 6'6" with a 7'1" wingspan. The NBA started to lists him at 6'7" after the Celtics acquired Allen and KG.

its crazy seeing jerry west videos... skinny and short shorts with massive biceps and arm length for his size... He was a freak of a nature especially being Caucasion with that wingspan.

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW][QUOTE=ThaRegul8r][QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]I've seen all that too, I have the article about Russell and Swede - but 7'4 just seems to be something speculated in the past decade that spread by word of mouth and became fact by virtue of "common knowledge" - just like how daddy long legs are the most poisonous spiders in the world despite not being spiders and despite not having potent venom at all... If something is repeated enough times people just assume it to be true. I could be wrong but so far the 7'4 claim boiled down to zero citations from anyone. I actually found a source from 1961 - from his active playing years. It differs from 7'4 but I'm thinking it's likelier to be a real measurement.[/QUOTE]

False. I've read with my own eyes at least two occasions in print in the paper Russell's wingspan listed as 7-4, once prior to his NBA career, and again during it. At least one of them

[QUOTE=Euroleague]Kobe's wingspan is 6-10.[/QUOTE]

Cool, according to an article a few years ago he's quoted saying his wife measured him one day out of curiosity and he is supposedly about 6'4 and 3/4 (virtually identical to MJ) - do you have a source for the 6-10# by chance?

[QUOTE=ThaRegul8r]False. It irks me when people put words in my mouth, so let's start again.

You made the statement that Russell's wingspan being 7'4" "just seems to be something speculated in the past decade that spread by word of mouth and became fact by virtue of 'common knowledge.'"

I said that [b]that[/b] statement is false because I read in print in the newspaper (didn't say I Googled it on Google archive) on at least two occasions that Russell's wingspan was 7-4. I know nothing about your source, and didn't comment on it. I'm saying your assertion that the 7-4 number is some "urban legend" is false. Again, I reiterate, just because you aren't aware of something doesn't mean it isn't true. This is nothing personal against you, but I correct inaccurate statements whenever I happen to come across them, regardless of who makes them, and have been doing so long before encountering you, so this has nothing to do with you personally. I'm just correcting a statement that I know to be false.[/QUOTE]

I'm not taking offense to corrections I encourage them, I am a stickler for accurate information. So I appreciate the clarification. I was actually going to start a thread with Russell/Kareem/Wilt measurements for comparison to modern drafted centers but in light of what you said I'll look more into Russel's.

Not every article I come across is solid, In one article I have, they were directly comparing the up and coming "Lew Alcindor" to Wilt using very specific measurements and their wingspan info they gave on Wilt was within an inch of the one captured on film in the Ali vs Wilt footage on youtube so it seems the publishers of that article weren't just pulling numbers out of a hat for the sake of a good story. The Russell article I have on the other hand, is one I'll take with a grain of Salt - It's published in a story that's supposed to be about a game it's not a player comparison. They mention his wing span only as a passing detail like this: "Sporting an eighty-five inch wingspan and a Vandyke on his chin, :blah ...." they go on to describe how Bill Russell dominated the NY Knicks. It could simply be a lazy journalist's misinformation - there's lots of misinformation from that time. Wilt's wingspan from that era -according to the lazier journalists- is as low as 7-2 and as high as 101 inches.

For Bill Russell, I'm personally more inclined to believe 7-4 since it isn't just a modern spin. 7'2 arms would be a notable handicap against Wilt and it just doesn't add up to his descriptions of being extraordinarily long - nor does it serve to justify his adept ability to block every shot in the building. I'll pursue more archive info hopefully I'll find something better - something in the ~7-4 ballpark.

Great thread.

West's long arms was his greatest physical gift, and a big reason why he was so successful defensively. This allowed him to get ton of steals, blocks and bother his man on D.

He's got a solid case for the honor of top defensive guard. I'd say, he's one of the best off-ball stoppers of all time.

What's West vertical leap?

[QUOTE=Lebron23]What's West vertical leap?[/QUOTE]

Likely it was never measured, vertical leap back then wasn't a thing people used as standard measurement to gauge players. Heck, even finding armspans is rare from that long ago.

In a few interviews and documentaries about Jerry West both Jerry, and the people who played with Jerry are consistently going out of their way to mention that he could [I]really[/I] jump when he was younger. A team mate said "he'd always be up way over the rim"

Now, I have no idea how true this is but NBA.com's bio of Jerry West says as a rookie, that his teammates were impressed to see that he could touch 16" above the rim. I don't know how they'd know it's precisely 16" or what teammates they were but lets just pretend it's true for a second. That would be an 11'6" max reach and that is really up there. At the same same time the # itself could be exaggeration or erroneous educated guess so lets take it with a grain of salt. Still, the implication is consistent and clear, West used to have a pretty stand-out vertical - at least in his younger years. West said he was ahead of his time athletically, he used to run in the Mountains of WV to keep his legs strong and to keep himself in peak physical conditioning.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2VZqY8YWHg[/url]

West steals and does an effortless looking dunk at WVU in that clip, and he took off just outside of that foul circle in the key - not bad for a guy who is only about 6'2.5-6'2.75" in his bare feet.


Also in one of the testimonials of West and his teammates (either college or HS, can't remember which) West asked if he could tip-off against a center during a big game for a play where he told his teammates just to be ready to catch it. The center was a 6'8 or 6'9 guy and West put the tap right in the hands of his teammate.

[IMG]https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-eFaMex5pMnQ/T1RBR90NyCI/AAAAAAAADLw/3bcdtwy1n8U/s400/Jerry_West%2520soar5s.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-XO-p6HR1Uns/T1QMv2LwlUI/AAAAAAAADLA/IIxKwTKagcA/s400/19571220WestVirginia2.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-yDuWLOTlJdc/T1QMv7RUPcI/AAAAAAAADLM/BYy-5c5I-Fg/s400/West%2520bloc2ks.jpg[/IMG]

Can't remember who, but some scout said that, despite being 6' 10", Tim Duncan's wingspan is 7' 3", and that explains why he can corrall a lot of rebounds without fouling others (over the back) and why he can block shots without having to jump so high and inadvertently bump into the shooter's body, etc.

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW][IMG]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-GZGW3hPlALc/T1RK-uTYiiI/AAAAAAAADMI/iyViIaKHQ5c/s800/wilt%2520sca33le.jpg[/IMG]
[/QUOTE]
That's the most amazing pix I've seen today. :cheers:

[QUOTE=PP34Deuce]its crazy seeing jerry west videos... skinny and short shorts with massive biceps and arm length for his size... He was a freak of a nature especially being Caucasion with that wingspan.[/QUOTE]

This is a good observation. I know bringing up race is sensitive but it is actually true, the majority of caucasian (and asian) individuals do not tend to have a significantly greater wingspan than their own height. It can be attributed as a subtle, cooler climate adaptation (as seen in other animals).

Longer limbs are more common in the people of immediate African ancestry. Bodies with larger surface areas (leaner, longer limbed) are a warm climate adaptation seen in [I]many[/I] species in nature (wolves of the same species in northern latitudes have shorter legs than southern latitude wolves). It would seem humans are no exception. But, we all came from Africa at some point in ~recent pre-history so we are all still the same species with virtually identical DNA - the frequency of expression is the only real difference in "races" if such a word is appropriate. So Jerry West does have an uncommon physique for a "white guy" :D

[QUOTE=Gotterdammerung]That's the most amazing pix I've seen today. :cheers:[/QUOTE]

Thanks :cheers:

Some people tend to think the NBA is just a bunch of Wilt Chamberlains running around the floor today because they say "he was ahead of his time". That's not really the case, time isn't likely to "catch up" to him at all, sure some guys here and there might approach his height, or his athleticism, or any one of a few specific characteristics he had but the combination of traits he possessed isn't ever going to be found on a regular basis, and it may never be found within our life times or in many future life-times he might be that rare who knows. All I know, based on research I've done, is that to this point there hasn't been other guys with the combination of things he had. So there really is some solid, explainable reasons as to why he was so physically dominant and it's got it's got less to do with any "he faced (insert criticism) talent" than some might think. By the way - in the chart, as shown - he was "only" 6'11.5 in [I]High School[/I] - he was 7'1.06 when he was fully grown... he got bigger than you see in that picture.

Those are barefoot heights of all of those guys. Iggys and Dwights came from [url]www.draftexpress.com/measurements[/url]. And I know Wilt's high-school height because of an interview on film where a journalist asks: "You know I've heard you are anywhere from 7 to as much as 9 feet tall, would you please clarify for everyone, exactly how tall you are?" Wilt's response: "Well, I'm exactly 6'11.5 in my stocking feet (his socks)." So those are all accurately scaled vertically to represent their heights based on a grid I extrapolated based on the known diameters of a basketball. Grid scaling like this is something I do while publishing scientific illustrations such as paleontology art. It makes for a great visual to show just how massive and long his frame was. Look at his hands compared to Iggy's

:D

[IMG]https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-BcvlJQFFwiw/T2Te30k25xI/AAAAAAAADOk/9UY2XQWc_Gw/s800/West1110028.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-e9ptFegtSGg/T2Tfo7rxOhI/AAAAAAAADOs/m8UZ8BnOeM8/s400/3zh1p2912.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-dvZcnlTcByM/T2Tgh2KVO_I/AAAAAAAADO0/D6NJrfhvUXA/s800/West-Pitt-126.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-5csP6wp3aW4/T2Ta1w6MJJI/AAAAAAAADOc/WxGvVThG8aM/s800/West%2520blocks.jpg[/IMG]

West is an impressive specimen for such a small guy. I'm pretty sure the footage of him as an old Laker in the 70's that everybody sees most often won't do him justice for what he once was. A high-flying, very fast, very long short guy. With a tenacious competitive drive and no fear in the clutch.

Check out his chase-down blocks:
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvMq-eX_pNw&t=2m55s[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWVi0EtJcZg&t=10m56s[/url]

[QUOTE=jlauber]Too bad West had poor form with his jump shot, and couldn't dribble with his left hand (or go left), or maybe he could have had seasons of 30 ppg, and post-seasons in the high 30's (and even a series of 46 ppg.)[/QUOTE]

Can't you just shut up for once?
You whine constantly and you spam constantly about people dissing the players in the 60's. Why do you even care so much? Even you used to write how modern era players are better than these guys, you hypocrite.

And you always post that agenda-driven crap because you are obsessed with Wilt, you couldn't care less about anyone else in the 60's, you're only defending them to make Wilt look better. You're such a f4ggot.

[QUOTE=Eric Cartman]OP would be a great detective in real life.[/QUOTE]

OP is actually a great poster, I read most of his stuff and he always backs up his posts with excellent sources, pics and videos.

[QUOTE=millwad]OP is actually a great poster, I read most of his stuff and he always backs up his posts with excellent sources, pics and videos.[/QUOTE]

:cheers:

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]Thanks :cheers:

Some people tend to think the NBA is just a bunch of Wilt Chamberlains running around the floor today because they say "he was ahead of his time". That's not really the case, time isn't likely to "catch up" to him at all, sure some guys here and there might approach his height, or his athleticism, or any one of a few specific characteristics he had but the combination of traits he possessed isn't ever going to be found on a regular basis, and it may never be found within our life times or in many future life-times he might be that rare who knows. All I know, based on research I've done, is that to this point there hasn't been other guys with the combination of things he had. So there really is some solid, explainable reasons as to why he was so physically dominant and it's got it's got less to do with any "he faced (insert criticism) talent" than some might think. By the way - in the chart, as shown - he was "only" 6'11.5 in [I]High School[/I] - he was 7'1.06 when he was fully grown... he got bigger than you see in that picture.

Those are barefoot heights of all of those guys. Iggys and Dwights came from [url]www.draftexpress.com/measurements[/url]. And I know Wilt's high-school height because of an interview on film where a journalist asks: "You know I've heard you are anywhere from 7 to as much as 9 feet tall, would you please clarify for everyone, exactly how tall you are?" Wilt's response: "Well, I'm exactly 6'11.5 in my stocking feet (his socks)." So those are all accurately scaled vertically to represent their heights based on a grid I extrapolated based on the known diameters of a basketball. Grid scaling like this is something I do while publishing scientific illustrations such as paleontology art. It makes for a great visual to show just how massive and long his frame was. Look at his hands compared to Iggy's

:D[/QUOTE]
It is a fantastic photo, and you did a great job in extrapolating from the image of the basketball, which seems quite logical after all. :cheers:

A 16 year old Wilt looming behind both modern day NBA players drives the point home better than any yakety yak yak ever could. :biggums:

As for Wilt's grip, we see this all the time in those old videos where he's palming the ball like a small grapefruit, before he makes a move to the basket or swings a dump off pass to a cutting teammate, etc.

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW][IMG]https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-BcvlJQFFwiw/T2Te30k25xI/AAAAAAAADOk/9UY2XQWc_Gw/s800/West1110028.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-e9ptFegtSGg/T2Tfo7rxOhI/AAAAAAAADOs/m8UZ8BnOeM8/s400/3zh1p2912.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-dvZcnlTcByM/T2Tgh2KVO_I/AAAAAAAADO0/D6NJrfhvUXA/s800/West-Pitt-126.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-5csP6wp3aW4/T2Ta1w6MJJI/AAAAAAAADOc/WxGvVThG8aM/s800/West%2520blocks.jpg[/IMG]

West is an impressive specimen for such a small guy. I'm pretty sure the footage of him as an old Laker in the 70's that everybody sees most often won't do him justice for what he once was. A high-flying, very fast, very long short guy. With a tenacious competitive drive and no fear in the clutch.

Check out his chase-down blocks:
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvMq-eX_pNw&t=2m55s[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWVi0EtJcZg&t=10m56s[/url][/QUOTE]

Almost one decade ago, I had seen and saved a black-white photo of West (I'm 80% sure it was a photo of him from college) that showed him (probably) having another of his chase-down blocked shots. The photo was taken from behind, but showed him bending in the air in order to avoid hitting the backboard with his head. The perception, of course, of the photo wasn't the best availabe, but he did seem like he was doing the right thing and that his head was very close to the backboard (a height of 9.5 feet).

But alas, this was 3 PC's ago. I've tried to no avail to find this photo in my current PC or in the Internet.

OP's a person who doesn't mind to research into things.

I wish i could do the same, but this month, i didn't have the most brilliant times so i have to improve few grades. If you don't mind, i may use some of this staff into my articles.

[QUOTE=millwad]Can't you just shut up for once?
You whine constantly and you spam constantly about people dissing the players in the 60's. Why do you even care so much? Even you used to write how modern era players are better than these guys, you hypocrite.

And you always post that agenda-driven crap because you are obsessed with Wilt, you couldn't care less about anyone else in the 60's, you're only defending them to make Wilt look better. You're such a f4ggot.[/QUOTE]

Dickwad,

YOU were the LIAR who claimed that Hakeem didn't guard Kareem in the games in which a 38-39 year old Kareem just SHELLED the Rockets. The FACT is, YOU have NEVER seen ONE MINUTE of ANY of those games, you idiot.

YOU know absolutely NOTHING about the game...PERIOD. YOU have NEVER provided one SHRED of evidence, or research in ANY of your posts. AND, you continually pop into these topics, and offer NOTHING, but complete nonsense.

Furthermore, as more-and-more VIDEO FOOTAGE, NEWPAPER and MAGAZINE articles AT THE TIME, and QUOTES from FIRST HAND accounts by PEERS, becomes available, the clowns like yourself, will continue to duck for cover.

YOU and a few others have been plastering this forum for the last couple of years that Wilt wasn't doing anything that he was given credit for. Where is the VIDEO FOOTAGE that shows Wilt's vertical? Oh wait, we now have a VIDEO of a Chamberlain, in a fast-paced game, with no time to react, and going straight up (without benefit of a running start), with his fingertips at near the top of the backboard. CLEARLY, we now KNOW that the man was capable of touching the backboard, a feat which the "anti-Wilt" clan claimed was impossible. We also have the VIDEO conversation of none other than Tex Winter, claiming that he witnessed a high school Chamberlain, with three steps from behind the FT line, DUNKING a basketball...which supports the TONE of ARTICLES which have credited Wilt with that astonishing feat.

YOU, and other's laughed at my posts claiming that Wilt had a good outside game, even though I provided a quote from a HOF coach who claimed that very fact. All of a sudden, in the last few months, we have VIDEO FOOTAGE, during actual GAMES, in which Wilt is hitting a variety of shots from 15+ feet. Not a single highlight here-or-there, but MULTIPLE SHOTS in SINGLE GAMES, in which Wilt is scoring from 15+ feet, and making bank shots, JUMP SHOTS, spinning turn-around jump shots, and even HOOK SHOTS. CLEARLY, a Wilt up thru the first half of his pro career, was a GOOD outside shooter.

Then, YOU challenged my take that Wilt was SWARMED in his career. Here again, we have VIDEO FOOTAGE which supports just that. Not only that, we have multiple ARTICLES which back up that claim. And we have QUOTES from PEERS who also support my take.

Then you challenged my take that Wilt blocked some 15 of Kareem's "unblockable" skyhooks in the '72 WCF's. We do KNOW that Wilt was capable of blocking them, because we have VIDEO FOOTAGE in which Wilt blocks not one, but TWO, in a span of a few seconds. We also have the OP claiming that he saw Wilt block 20+ in that series. We have the RESEARCH by another poster here, who provided the Wilt-Kareem H2H's LONG BEFORE anyone else ever did, and SURE ENOUGH, his RESEARCH was dead-on...claiming that Wiilt blocked 15 of Kareem's shots in just three games of that series. Furthermore, he provided RESEARCH with a total of 29 blocks, just covering SIX of the 28 H2H's between the two. Of course, PHILA provided NEWSPAPER ARTICLES with some of Wilt's block totals against Kareem in that series, too.

YOU also challenged my take that Wilt OUTPLAYED Kareem in the '72 WCF's, citing your RIDICULOUS OPINION that since Kareem outscored Wilt, he must have outplayed him. YET, I have provided NEWSPAPER ARTICLES, including one by the MILWAUKEE PRESS, as well as one TIME MAGAZINE, which CLEARLY gave Wilt the "win" in that series. Of course, CavsFan provided NEWSPAPER ARTICLES which credited Wilt with outplaying Kareem in the '71 WCF's, as well (in a series in which the 34 year old Wilt, and only a year removed from major knee surgery, matched a PRIME Kareem in every stat.)

Of course, I also provided a TON of statistical information, in which a PRIME Chamberlain dominated many of the SAME centers that Kareem would face (and most well past their primes when he did so), FAR more than Kareem ever did. Or that a Wilt, before shredding his knee, just POUNDED a young Kareem in their one H2H before Chamberlain's injury (and that was NOT a PRIME Wilt either.)

All of which was remarkable, since a 38-39 year old Kareem was scoring at will against a helpless Hakeem. In fact, Hakeem was well down the list of those that defended Kareem in their H2H's. Gilmore, Thurmond, and Moses were much more competitive. In fact, a PRIME Moses thoroughly outplayed a near-PRIME Kareem (here again, Kareem's REAL PRIME was in the early 70's.)

So, maybe YOU should just give up this continuous trash against the players of the 60's. Players like West, Oscar, Russell, Thurmond, Lucas, Hawkins, Maravich, Gus Johnson, Earl Monroe, Kareem, and Wilt, would all be GREAT in today's game. We have enough VIDEO FOOTAGE, and RESEARCH that CLEARLY demonstrates that fact.

And, you have NEVER offered ANY research, or video footage, or articles AT THE TIME, or quotes from PEERS, that would refute those claims.

And, before you try to blame me for bringing Wilt into this discussion...take a close look at YOUR post. ONCE AGAIN, it was YOU that did. Now, why don't YOU do all of the intelligent posters here a favor, and just refrain from making a complete a$$ of yourself by popping into nearly every topic which is even remotely associated with Wilt, and posting your usual TRASH?

[QUOTE=jlauber]Dickwad,

YOU were the LIAR who claimed that Hakeem didn't guard Kareem in the games in which a 38-39 year old Kareem just SHELLED the Rockets. The FACT is, YOU have NEVER seen ONE MINUTE of ANY of those games, you idiot.

YOU know absolutely NOTHING about the game...PERIOD. YOU have NEVER provided one SHRED of evidence, or research in ANY of your posts. AND, you continually pop into these topics, and offer NOTHING, but complete nonsense.

Furthermore, as more-and-more VIDEO FOOTAGE, NEWPAPER and MAGAZINE articles AT THE TIME, and QUOTES from FIRST HAND accounts by PEERS, becomes available, the clowns like yourself, will continue to duck for cover.

YOU and a few others have been plastering this forum for the last couple of years that Wilt wasn't doing anything that he was given credit for. Where is the VIDEO FOOTAGE that shows Wilt's vertical? Oh wait, we now have a VIDEO of a Chamberlain, in a fast-paced game, with no time to react, and going straight up (without benefit of a running start), with his fingertips at near the top of the backboard. CLEARLY, we now KNOW that the man was capable of touching the backboard, a feat which the "anti-Wilt" clan claimed was impossible. We also have the VIDEO conversation of none other than Tex Winter, claiming that he witnessed a high school Chamberlain, with three steps from behind the FT line, DUNKING a basketball...which supports the TONE of ARTICLES which have credited Wilt with that astonishing feat.

YOU, and other's laughed at my posts claiming that Wilt had a good outside game, even though I provided a quote from a HOF coach who claimed that very fact. All of a sudden, in the last few months, we have VIDEO FOOTAGE, during actual GAMES, in which Wilt is hitting a variety of shots from 15+ feet. Not a single highlight here-or-there, but MULTIPLE SHOTS in SINGLE GAMES, in which Wilt is scoring from 15+ feet, and making bank shots, JUMP SHOTS, spinning turn-around jump shots, and even HOOK SHOTS. CLEARLY, a Wilt up thru the first half of his pro career, was a GOOD outside shooter.

Then, YOU challenged my take that Wilt was SWARMED in his career. Here again, we have VIDEO FOOTAGE which supports just that. Not only that, we have multiple ARTICLES which back up that claim. And we have QUOTES from PEERS who also support my take.

Then you challenged my take that Wilt blocked some 15 of Kareem's "unblockable" skyhooks in the '72 WCF's. We do KNOW that Wilt was capable of blocking them, because we have VIDEO FOOTAGE in which Wilt blocks not one, but TWO, in a span of a few seconds. We also have the OP claiming that he saw Wilt block 20+ in that series. We have the RESEARCH by another poster here, who provided the Wilt-Kareem H2H's LONG BEFORE anyone else ever did, and SURE ENOUGH, his RESEARCH was dead-on...claiming that Wiilt blocked 15 of Kareem's shots in just three games of that series. Furthermore, he provided RESEARCH with a total of 29 blocks, just covering SIX of the 28 H2H's between the two. Of course, PHILA provided NEWSPAPER ARTICLES with some of Wilt's block totals against Kareem in that series, too.

YOU also challenged my take that Wilt OUTPLAYED Kareem in the '72 WCF's, citing your RIDICULOUS OPINION that since Kareem outscored Wilt, he must have outplayed him. YET, I have provided NEWSPAPER ARTICLES, including one by the MILWAUKEE PRESS, as well as one TIME MAGAZINE, which CLEARLY gave Wilt the "win" in that series. Of course, CavsFan provided NEWSPAPER ARTICLES which credited Wilt with outplaying Kareem in the '71 WCF's, as well (in a series in which the 34 year old Wilt, and only a year removed from major knee surgery, matched a PRIME Kareem in every stat.)

Of course, I also provided a TON of statistical information, in which a PRIME Chamberlain dominated many of the SAME centers that Kareem would face (and most well past their primes when he did so), FAR more than Kareem ever did. Or that a Wilt, before shredding his knee, just POUNDED a young Kareem in their one H2H before Chamberlain's injury (and that was NOT a PRIME Wilt either.)

All of which was remarkable, since a 38-39 year old Kareem was scoring at will against a helpless Hakeem. In fact, Hakeem was well down the list of those that defended Kareem in their H2H's. Gilmore, Thurmond, and Moses were much more competitive. In fact, a PRIME Moses thoroughly outplayed a near-PRIME Kareem (here again, Kareem's REAL PRIME was in the early 70's.)

So, maybe YOU should just give up this continuous trash against the players of the 60's. Players like West, Oscar, Russell, Thurmond, Lucas, Hawkins, Maravich, Gus Johnson, Earl Monroe, Kareem, and Wilt, would all be GREAT in today's game. We have enough VIDEO FOOTAGE, and RESEARCH that CLEARLY demonstrates that fact.

And, you have NEVER offered ANY research, or video footage, or articles AT THE TIME, or quotes from PEERS, that would refute those claims.

And, before you try to blame me for bringing Wilt into this discussion...take a close look at YOUR post. ONCE AGAIN, it was YOU that did. Now, why don't YOU do all of the intelligent posters here a favor, and just refrain from making a complete a$$ of yourself by popping into nearly every topic which is even remotely associated with Wilt, and posting your usual TRASH?[/QUOTE]

Can't actually get it that you spent all that time just to "diss" me.

I have already covered all your lies and BS

And Jlauber, it's pathetic that you're misreading my posts with purpose.

I never wrote that Wilt didn't get double-team'd, I wrote that he didn't get as many double-teams like modern centers a la Hakeem and Shaq and that he faced worse defensive schemes.

And you idiot, you wrote that Wilt "murdered" Kareem in '72, I'm sure Wilt-fans like CavaliersFTW can tell you that that wasn't the case.

And still you can't prove that Wilt blocked 20+ skyhooks in that series, idiot.

And I wrote that Wilt didn't touch the top of the backboard in that clip, I don't know if he could touch the top of the backboard..

I've never said that old school legends wouldn't be great with modern ways of training..:facepalm

You suck so much.. Now shut your mouth and go and do something else and stop spamming about Wilt in a thread about Jerry West.

[QUOTE=millwad]Can't actually get it that you spent all that time just to "diss" me.

I have already covered all your lies and BS

[QUOTE=jlauber]Hopefully your PM's to those two were nowhere near as deplorable as the one's you sent me.

And yes, you are a "Wilt-hater." You have PROVEN that beyond a shadow of a doubt. In virtually EVERY topic in which Wilt's name is brought up, you pop in with nothing but disparaging remarks,...and of course,...NOTHING to substantiate your bias.

You have become a laughingstock on this forum, and yet, you repeatedly come back for more. NO ONE, other than the remnants of the "anti-Chamberlain" gang that is left, sides with you. And even those few that are left are fast dwindling. Of course, they have no legs left to stand on, now that we are getting more-and-more video footage, articles, and quotes from respected peers, which just destroys the "Wilt-bashers" here on this forum.[/QUOTE]

Haha, have I become a laughingstock on this forum..:facepalm
Can't believe that you would say that to anyone, you can't even start a thread without people mocking you. In fact, even Wilt-fans mock you..

The only thing I do is to challenge your nonsense and made up crap. And the funny thing is, I didn't even know who the hell you were prior to your spamming in some thread where people discussed Hakeem. You wrote essays after essays and everyone told you top stop but since you're mentally challenged you couldn't. You're famous for your OT-posts.. SUCKER.

Again, shut up, don't ruin this thread.

OT: Nothing beats Rajon Rondos wingspan tho... relative to height i mean...

he has a 6'10-6'11 wingspan and is 6'0-6'1........ that is freakish...

[img]http://soulhonky.com/candanny/url.jpeg[/img]

[QUOTE=pauk]OT: Nothing beats Rajon Rondos wingspan tho... relative to height i mean...

he has a 6'10-6'11 wingspan and is 6'0-6'1........ that is freakish...

[img]http://soulhonky.com/candanny/url.jpeg[/img][/QUOTE]

I posted the video earlier in this thread, sports science measured him - 6'9 wingspan, and he's ~6'1 in height. I'd think Bismack Biyombo is either tied or takes the cake of "relative" wingspan to height. 6'8.31" barefoot at the time of the NBA draft with a fraction of an inch more tha 7'6" wingspan... :eek:

Both of those guys are def top tier armspan/height ratio. There might be a few others in that demographic you can browse [url]www.draftexpress.com/measurements[/url] to see who else stands out.

Elton Brand wingspan

6'8.25" (with out shoes)
7'5'5" wingspan

[B]Ben Gordon [/B]

6'1" (6'2.25" in shoes)
6'8.5" wingspan
200 lbs