Charles Barkley says the NBA lies about player heights, so does DraftExpress:

That's why KD seems so much taller than his written heigth. Boy was measured without his shoes.

[QUOTE=Punpun]That's why KD seems so much taller than his written heigth. Boy was measured without his shoes.[/QUOTE]

Yes this is true.He could be almost 6'11 with shoes.He is tallest player in OKC starting line-up.

As for wade,he is 6'3 and change but he plays like 6'7 or 6'8.He has ridiculously long arms and short neck.

Lebron is probably 6'7 3/4 or 6'8 without shoes.He grew a little bit since graduating from HS.

Howard is the most special case.I have seen him next to lebron,they sometimes look same height however because of howard's ridiculous wingspan very short neck and incredible athleticism.He plays like 7' footer

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]Creating awareness. Many oblivious fans insist the league is now stacked with giants who underrate their height when the opposite is true, there is constant chatter between some fans discussion these over inflated numbers and they don't realize actual measurements have been taken for many of these players. Speculative pictures, etc - they're silly when real world measurements are available from draftexpress and international competitions etc. Also, using modern inflated heights as a means to diminish prior era's players who's listed heights actually weren't inflated by the player. And also, even the fans that know the NBA's player heights are inflated are usually unaware that it[I] isn't[/I] consistent, which is why these arguments over who is taller than who even arrises. :confusedshrug:


For example:

Kevin Durant: 6'9, 7'4.5 wingspan
6'9 list height

Dwight Howard: 6'9, 7'4.5 wingspan
6'11 list height

Kevin Love: 6'7.75
6'10 list height


Coincidence that people are convinced Durant is a "7 footer"? He isn't. It just looks that way next to the league's "bigs" that he is clearly equal too in height like Dwight, and even taller than guys like Kevin Love - despite those guys both being listed taller than he is.[/QUOTE]

bingo:applause:
And then we have deluded fools claiming Durant being a "legit" 7 footer, when he's standing next to some 6'8 guy, who is listed as 6'10 for some reason...:lol

[B]Barkley and MJ and Bryant are all 6`4 3/4 ft or 1.95 mt

Thunder Dan, Mark Aguirre etc are legit 6`6 ft or 1.98 mt

Dennis Rodman is 6`7 ft or 2.01 mt

Magic is 6`7 1/2 or 2.02 mt compare him to Bird who is a legit 6`9 ft or 2.06 mt

Garnett is over 7`0 ft (he desliked this but its true) around 2.12 mt

Karl Malone is 6`8 3/4 ft or 2.05 mt[/B]

OK, this stuff sets to do two things:



1. Play down older guys by saying they were all small and unevolved, while Kevin Love and Al Jefferson are clearly not 6'10 and are also closer to the heights of a lot of guys who are listed as being shorter.





2. The big thing is that it makes an issue out of height. It's as if they are prerequisites to making it into the league...and they include bullshit. My Cousin didn't play soccer at Boston University, because he wasn't allowed to try out, because he didn't run his 40 fast enough. It's an American sports thing.




What the hell would Tyrone do if he was coming up today?

[QUOTE=Round Mound][B]Barkley and MJ and Bryant are all 6`4 3/4 ft or 1.95 mt

Thunder Dan, Mark Aguirre etc are legit 6`6 ft or 1.98 mt

Dennis Rodman is 6`7 ft or 2.01 mt

Magic is 6`7 1/2 or 2.02 mt compare him to Bird who is a legit 6`9 ft or 2.06 mt

Garnett is over 7`0 ft (he desliked this but its true) around 2.12 mt

Karl Malone is 6`8 3/4 ft or 2.05 mt[/B][/QUOTE]
I actually went to watch some Dream team footage where Barkley is next to Jordan and i was ready to argue with you but it probably is true.
The bit with KG i recently read in a column by Simmons that KG is legit 7ft thought it was some bias by Bill to show that their players are taller,but now that i see it from another source,might be some truth to it.

[QUOTE=madmax]bingo:applause:
And then we have deluded fools claiming Durant being a "legit" 7 footer, when he's standing next to some 6'8 guy, who is listed as 6'10 for some reason...:lol[/QUOTE]

B-b-b-but it's okay that he's 6-7.75" cuz Kevin Love wuz listed his height in shoes, a legit 6'10...

[IMG]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Eig1sZGzo4Q/SYkSSu9S6HI/AAAAAAAAEBM/ovPJpQLKv8E/s400/484x480-2009012400280.jpg[/IMG]

^----- These must be Kevin Love's shoes :lol

how's this news??? players have been lying about their heights since... like grade school. EVERYBODY does it everywhere at any level.

[QUOTE=DCL][B]how's this news???[/B] players have been lying about their heights since... like grade school. EVERYBODY does it everywhere at any level.[/QUOTE]

Sadly, this is news to some people, especially the ones who think NBA players actually went so far as to dramatically underrated their heights rather than overrated them... modern NBA is a league of evolved human giants that are taller than previous generations :bowdown: ...rite? Lots of fans think that, seriously...

Wow.. the NBA after MJ has truly evolved, there're tons of better athletes than the 60's and much bigger as well. OMG.


Not really. If anything, big men have been the same compared to the past if not smaller considering there're more and more smaller PF/C's with ticker bodies, a slightly better athleticism, no post up game (few are expectations of course) and weak fundamentals. Also, bigs who tend to play like guards on the perimeters as well.

The thing that has improved it's the size of the perimeter players, the ways of playing defense has got better (zone, double teams thanks to now excellent double-teams e.g two tall forwards and one guy tries to time your shot from weak side etc) among the other things.

And this thing, is known. They lie in order to help their draft value, because teams wouldn't want to draft (at least not too many) 6'7, 6'8 big men which in reality they get anyway.

I know from my own example, that in shoes, i'm 184/185 cm. Without the shoes, at barefoot i'm at 179 or maybe even 180 cm. That should be around a 6 foot exact right? It makes a difference. Great thread once again OP!

Draftexpress.com is a ridiculous horrible website. They lie about so much stuff it's just absurd. I have no idea how anyone can take that site seriously.

[QUOTE=Euroleague]Draftexpress.com is a ridiculous horrible website. They lie about so much stuff it's just absurd. I have no idea how anyone can take that site seriously.[/QUOTE]

Had my ear until the lack of:

[IMG]http://ronehotspotatl.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/evidence.jpg[/IMG]

What are we arguing about inches? Inches? :lol

What difference does it make you are 6'8 and I'm 6'6? You can do what better than me? Get listed before me in height order? :eek:

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]Sadly, this is news to some people, especially the ones who think NBA players actually went so far as to dramatically underrated their heights rather than overrated them... modern NBA is a league of evolved human giants that are taller than previous generations :bowdown: ...rite? Lots of fans think that, seriously...[/QUOTE]

Played college ball in the 70s. No internet to mass distribute info on players, nothing close to the information overload available on college or even high school kids.

Many schools had a program/yearbook that was distributed at every game, with an insert that showed the visiting team's roster. Much more cost effective before the days of modern desktop publishing.

I was listed at anywhere between 6'5" and 6'8", depending who we were playing. Actual height was about 6'7".

Playing a team with small wing players? List me at 6'8" to make them worry about the mismatch. Big, bruising team? Well, I was a quick 6'5" guy.

Played high school ball vs a guy who suddenly grew from 6'9" to 6'11" on signing day. :roll:

There's nothing new under the sun.

[QUOTE=JMT]Played college ball in the 70s. No internet to mass distribute info on players, nothing close to the information overload available on college or even high school kids.

Many schools had a program/yearbook that was distributed at every game, with an insert that showed the visiting team's roster. Much more cost effective before the days of modern desktop publishing.

I was listed at anywhere between 6'5" and 6'8", depending who we were playing. Actual height was about 6'7".

Playing a team with small wing players? List me at 6'8" to make them worry about the mismatch. Big, bruising team? Well, I was a quick 6'5" guy.

Played high school ball vs a guy who suddenly grew from 6'9" to 6'11" on signing day. :roll:

There's nothing new under the sun.[/QUOTE]

I remember being listed at 6-1 in shoes by my high school team (after the coach measured me), and then being "officially measured" at 5-8 barefoot at some skills combine.

I also remember being listed at 6-1 in shoes in college, after being measured by an assistant coach there.

[B]My actual height though is about 6-1 to 6-2 barefoot, depending on the time of day.[/B]

So, these team measurements and listings are totally crazy and ridiculous for the most part.

Either that or I am supposed to believe that my height varied by about 4 inches from one week to another, and that I grew 1-2 inches since college.

It's also really stupid how they use the English system and not the metric system. Just use the freaking metric system already.

It's way more accurate.

[QUOTE=GOBB]What are we arguing about inches? Inches? :lol

What difference does it make you are 6'8 and I'm 6'6? You can do what better than me? Get listed before me in height order? :eek:[/QUOTE]

Are you making arguments about weak eras due to the size of players? Do you like to post photographs of players and bicker on about "so and so must be this height cuz look how tall he looks next to so and so".


If not, congratulations for acknowledging talent over size which is common sense to begin with. But like it or not this thread [I]is[/I] relevant to many fans.

I can understand guys that downplay their height. Position has a lot to do with it. Kevin Garnet is 6'11.75 barefoot. He's at least 7'1 in shoes. The guy wants to play PF, but it doesn't look right for a guy listed at 7'1 to not play center.

Same thing With Durant. He's at least 6'10 in shoes. Some people might be like, what's wrong with you? Why are you playing SF if you're 6'10?

I think LeBron downplays his height too. He was measured at 6'7.25 barefoot at 18 years old. I think that by the time he reached 21, he was probably a legit 6'8, or slightly under. Anyone who buys LeBron sneakers knows that they have pretty thick soles. Especially since they started put Air Max bags in them. He's at least 6'9 in his shoes.

There's some pressure to play a certain position if you're a particular height.

I knew there was something wrong. I'm 6'1" without shoes and when I see someone like Ramon Sessions listed at 6'3" I started to doubt how they measured them or if they included height with shoes on.

Number rounding plays a art too. They don't want to list guys with decimal points. Especially when they generally list guys heights in shoes, which is very inconsistent.

[QUOTE=Euroleague]I remember being listed at 6-1 in shoes by my high school team (after the coach measured me), and then being "officially measured" at 5-8 barefoot at some skills combine.

I also remember being listed at 6-1 in shoes in college, after being measured by an assistant coach there.

[B]My actual height though is about 6-1 to 6-2 barefoot, depending on the time of day.[/B]

So, these team measurements and listings are totally crazy and ridiculous for the most part.

Either that or I am supposed to believe that my height varied by about 4 inches from one week to another, and that I grew 1-2 inches since college.

It's also really stupid how they use the English system and not the metric system. Just use the freaking metric system already.

It's way more accurate.[/QUOTE]

...Inadequate European youth basketball programs effect the credibility of Draftexpress and 1989-92 Olympic measurements? Is that your evidence against Draftexpress?

[QUOTE=skaterbasist]I knew there was something wrong. I'm 6'1" without shoes and when I see someone like Ramon Sessions listed at 6'3" I started to doubt how they measured them or if they included height with shoes on.[/QUOTE]

There is some crazy exaggeration. I am 6-1 to 6-2 barefoot, depending on time of day. I saw John Wall once in person. I was just wearing like a 1.5 inch adding hiking boot.

So at most, I could have been 6-2.5 to 6-3.5 in shoes at the time.

Now, John Wall is listed at 6-4 in shoes by the NBA and draftexpress has him at 6-2.75 barefoot, and claims this is an official barefoot measurement from the NBA draft combine.

This proves to me the NBA is really full of it, and so is draftexpress if they actually believe these claims.

Because I saw Wall in person, and he looked no more than 6-1 or maybe at max, 6-2 to me. But really, he looked 6-1. I mean, he had to be at least an inch shorter than me, at least.

He seemed 6-1 in person, but he's supposedly 6-4 in shoes, and "officially measured" at almost 6-3 barefoot by the NBA.

They are obviously totally full of it with their listings.

[QUOTE=NumberSix]I can understand guys that downplay their height. Position has a lot to do with it. Kevin Garnet is 6'11.75 barefoot. He's at least 7'1 in shoes. The guy wants to play PF, but it doesn't look right for a guy listed at 7'1 to not play center.

Same thing With Durant. He's at least 6'10 in shoes. Some people might be like, what's wrong with you? Why are you playing SF if you're 6'10?

I think LeBron downplays his height too. He was measured at 6'7.25 barefoot at 18 years old. I think that by the time he reached 21, he was probably a legit 6'8, or slightly under. Anyone who buys LeBron sneakers knows that they have pretty thick soles. Especially since they started put Air Max bags in them. He's at least 6'9 in his shoes.

There's some pressure to play a certain position if you're a particular height.[/QUOTE]

Correct, and people should also note that guys like Durant and Garnet are [I]rare exceptions[/I] to an otherwise ever present trend of height [I]inflation[/I]. This includes Lebron because whether Lebron grew a few fractions of an inch or not since HS doesn't change the fact that he measured 6'7.25 yet was still immediately pegged at 6-8. And we're supposed to believe his shoes at the time were allegedly .75 inches thick yet Dwights are allegedly 2 inches thick, and 6'3.75 Dwayne Wade's shoes are .25 inches thick? No consistency it's just a jumbled mess of numbers and it gets fans into speculative "how tall are they?" frenzies that almost always results in them over-inflating these player heights even more so than the NBA did.

Height inflation also is a roadblock for young fans to actually accept and appreciate past NBA players and eras that were every bit the same stature as modern players. Using tools like draftexpress.com or doing some [I]actual[/I] research to see if any of their players in question is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> analyzing photographs.

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]...Inadequate European youth basketball programs effect the credibility of Draftexpress and 1989-92 Olympic measurements? Is that your evidence against Draftexpress?[/QUOTE]

Draftepxress has been proven to post the wrong heights for a lot of players. They put some as taller than they really are, and others as shorter than they really are.

Example, Ian Vougioukas, Romain Sato, and Kyle Hines have all been officially measured, and using the metric system (which is much more accurate) by team officials in Europe.

Now, understand that the European clubs simply list the player as what he is measured at, they do not make up fake heights like the NBA and NCAA teams often do. Draftexpress even admits this in the OP post.

OK...........so how come draftexpress claims that Vougioukas is only 2.04 meters in height, when he was measured at 2.08 meters by Panathinaikos?

How come draftexpress claims that Romain Sato is only 1.88 meters in height, when he was measured at 1.92 meters in height by Siena and Panathinaikos?

How come draftexpress says that Kyle Hines is only 1.92 meters in height, when Olympiacos measured him at 1.94 meters in height?

Now, keep in mind, that the NBA measures players during the morning, when they are at their TALLEST, to help more inflate their heights. The agents for players also have them sleep on a flat surface and then go to the measurements right after.

The clubs in Europe are measuring guys when they get off the plane, or whatever, and come for their physical.

So, somehow, draftexpress.com manages to make players 1-2 inches shorter than they really are, and claims it as, "official measurements by the NBA". And draftexpress always seems to totally endorse and stick by these combine barefoot measurements.

So....draftexpress.com is full of it on the heights of the players, and they can't be trusted even for these "official barefoot height listings" either.

I been knowing about the nba lying about players heights since 96 when allen iverson was drafted.they had him listed at 6 feet even but i met him in person when he was at georgetown.he shook hands with my pops and iverson had him by an inch and my pops is 5'9.also i met derrick rose when he played for memphis.drose and my brother were the same height and my brother is 6'1 3/4

NBA lists heights WITH shoes, its not a secret.

[QUOTE=eliteballer]NBA lists heights WITH shoes, its not a secret.[/QUOTE]

But they don't list accurate shoe heights.

They round up or down

[QUOTE=eliteballer]They round up or down[/QUOTE]

Which isn't accurate.

[QUOTE=Euroleague]But they don't list accurate shoe heights.[/QUOTE]
There's no such thing. It's not like there is a universal sole thickness for shoes. Every model of shoe is different. If I remember correctly, a pair of Air jordan IV's have soles that are about 1.75 inches thick. I'm a little over 6'3.5 barefoot, but in a pair of sneakers with thick soles like that, I'm well over 6'5.

Euroleague stop being so butthurt, it's sad. I make a thread that flat out calls the NBA liars about listing heights which you should be thrilled about, yet your clearly so mad at my Anthony Parker statue poster
that you've felt it is necessary to try and disparage my thread about the independent-of-the-NBA draft entity that measures and archives detailed player measurements down to the precise decimal :facepalm

Only the Draftexpress.com draft data entries that were acquired 2nd hand (and therefore can not be guaranteed to be accurate) are questionable and all of those submissions are [I]fully acknowledged by the Draft Express organization[/I]. The explanation to that is actually in the original post I made if you'd have actually cared to read it. I'll spell it out for you, this is their 2nd hand data entries:

*International player heights, which they assume are mostly true for some players but as with everything, they predict there are exceptions - basically what they are saying is "we didn't put the tape up to them, someone else did so take it with a grain of salt".

*Player heights that pre-date ~ the past 10 years or so that the D/E has been recording + entering the data. You'll notice almost none of the vintage player heights are accurate to the decimal. This is because that data was not taken by the D/E.


Example? Shaq on draftexpress is listed 7'1 303

In truth he was 7'0.88 in 1992 - to be precise. If you ask me, that should be the number they use but they can't change it until somebody submits the original source which I am actually apt to do at some point. I've collected a lot of player measurements and identified some of those vintage draft data innacuracies. But players from the past decade that D/E actually put the tape too themselves? :facepalm They actually measured those guys, it isn't second hand. Go fap to some AP highlights and stop trying to discredit the thread with your unsubstantiated nonsense.

There's no way in hell Stephen Jackson is 6'8".

Captan Jack is 6'6". By the way I don't blame these NBA and basketball players for padding their heights. One of the reasons why Ben Wallace wasn't drafted because he listed his height at 6'7".

[QUOTE=PP34Deuce]I think lebron is a legit 6'8 [b]and small change[/B]. Ive seen him next to Carmelo and melo is a legit 6'7.

Everyone knows Wade is like 6'3 [B]and change[/B]. he's shorter than Kobe who's like 6'5 [B]and change[/B].[/QUOTE]
Enjoying yourself?

No way is Kobe 6'4 barefoot..
He is taller than Jordan and Vince Carter

Kobe is a legit 6'6 without shoes.

[QUOTE=VeeCee15]No way is Kobe 6'4 barefoot..
He is taller than Jordan and Vince Carter

[B]Kobe is a legit 6'6 without shoes.[/B][/QUOTE]
That's going too far. If that was true, he would be well over 6'7 with shoes on.

[QUOTE=NumberSix]There's no such thing. It's not like there is a universal sole thickness for shoes. Every model of shoe is different. If I remember correctly, a pair of Air jordan IV's have soles that are about 1.75 inches thick. I'm a little over 6'3.5 barefoot, but in a pair of sneakers with thick soles like that, I'm well over 6'5.[/QUOTE]

Like I said, they don't list accurate shoe heights.

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]Euroleague stop being so butthurt, it's sad. I make a thread that flat out calls the NBA liars about listing heights which you should be thrilled about, yet your clearly so mad at my Anthony Parker statue poster
that you've felt it is necessary to try and disparage my thread about the independent-of-the-NBA draft entity that measures and archives detailed player measurements down to the precise decimal :facepalm

Only the Draftexpress.com draft data entries that were acquired 2nd hand (and therefore can not be guaranteed to be accurate) are questionable and all of those submissions are [I]fully acknowledged by the Draft Express organization[/I]. The explanation to that is actually in the original post I made if you'd have actually cared to read it. I'll spell it out for you, this is their 2nd hand data entries:

*International player heights, which they assume are mostly true for some players but as with everything, they predict there are exceptions - basically what they are saying is "we didn't put the tape up to them, someone else did so take it with a grain of salt".

*Player heights that pre-date ~ the past 10 years or so that the D/E has been recording + entering the data. You'll notice almost none of the vintage player heights are accurate to the decimal. This is because that data was not taken by the D/E.


Example? Shaq on draftexpress is listed 7'1 303

In truth he was 7'0.88 in 1992 - to be precise. If you ask me, that should be the number they use but they can't change it until somebody submits the original source which I am actually apt to do at some point. I've collected a lot of player measurements and identified some of those vintage draft data innacuracies. But players from the past decade that D/E actually put the tape too themselves? :facepalm They actually measured those guys, it isn't second hand. Go fap to some AP highlights and stop trying to discredit the thread with your unsubstantiated nonsense.[/QUOTE]

Then they need to say at the player's profile pages that the measurements might not be accurate and official. But the way they do it it just makes it seem official.

I mean damn, they have Romain Sato listed at 6-2 and just make it seem like it is official. Anyone that has ever seen Romain Sato knows there is no way in hell that he is only 6-2.

The heights for guys like Vougioukas, Sato, and Hines are flat out wrong, yet they claim them to be official, as measured by the "NBA officially". So draftexpress.com also is questionable and cannot be trusted either.

Holy shit their jaws look like they expanded a few inches since they got into the league. They look like goddam chipmunks.

[quote=Lebron23]LeBron looks 4.25" taller than Wade.

[URL="http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/dwyane-wade-and-lebron-james-of-the-miami-heat-poses-for-news-photo/138100882?esource=linkconn&aid=39902&asid=94532"]http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/dwyane-wade-and-lebron-james-of-the-miami-heat-poses-for-news-photo/138100882?esource=linkconn&aid=39902&asid=94532[/URL]

[URL="http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/dwyane-wade-and-lebron-james-of-the-miami-heat-poses-for-news-photo/138100881?esource=linkconn&aid=39902&asid=94532"]http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/dwyane-wade-and-lebron-james-of-the-miami-heat-poses-for-news-photo/138100881?esource=linkconn&aid=39902&asid=94532[/URL]

[URL="http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/dwyane-wade-and-lebron-james-of-the-miami-heat-poses-for-news-photo/138100888?esource=linkconn&aid=39902&asid=94532"]http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/dwyane-wade-and-lebron-james-of-the-miami-heat-poses-for-news-photo/138100888?esource=linkconn&aid=39902&asid=94532[/URL][/quote]

[QUOTE=kumquat]Holy shit their jaws look like they expanded a few inches since they got into the league. They look like goddam chipmunks.[/QUOTE]

oh no.

surely we are not talking about steroids and the recent jaws-ish-ness of D-WYANE WADE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[img]http://www.cryosites.com/shared/img/a/alvin_9gspb.jpeg[/img]


Oh na brah that can't be steroidal growth brah that's just da natral progression of da evolution of NBA athe le tes brah

Well... Wikipedia has started adding a note to players listed height in their info box:

[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobe_Bryant"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobe_Bryant[/URL]

[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Barkley"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Barkley[/URL]

Guess it's the start of something....