Why do some fans rank Kobe Bryant ahead of Tim Duncan?

[QUOTE=andgar923]ROFL the goof troop is out in full brigade.

They mad.:roll:[/QUOTE]

[SIZE="4"]"Duncan is better than Kobe"[/SIZE]



Majority of ISH:
[IMG]http://holykkphils.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/chuck-norris-approved.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-zVOp5DlQ2MQ/TzO4rBdXZLI/AAAAAAAAAt4/qwC2MHP-xKA/s1600/approval-people-clapping.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo336/gya0ma7ha/Gifs/approval.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-9QjARWd5a84/T3OXHJJbe1I/AAAAAAAAA34/OVtLNvwpMvI/s1600/nod-of-approval.gif[/IMG]

















Outspoken Kobe fan with dozens of accounts:
[IMG]http://www.gifsoup.com/view5/2508029/kobestan-o.gif[/IMG]

I rank Kobe ahead of Duncan. Duncan won one of his championships in a 50 game season, hardly impressive and it definitely hurts his rank for me. He's about to win one as a third option:oldlol:

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]He is a locker room problem because he created the pressure that resulted in trading for Gasol which led to 2 more championships?

If Kobe had Duncan's demeanor the Lakers would probably still be trotting out Smush Parker and Kwame Brown.[/QUOTE]
You are right. I'm sure if Kobe didn't request for a trade to the Lakers, the Lakers wouldn't have made the Kwame Brown for Pau Gasol deal. I'm sure they would have kept Kwame Brown instead but because of that pressure Kobe gave them with his trade request, the Lakers were forced to agree.

/sarcasm.

[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]I have Duncan over Kobe, most in the media would disagree, and I can see a bit of a case for Kobe, even though Kobe's true prime was from '03-'09, imo, he was already pretty comprable to a prime Duncan in '01, and to a lesser extent '02.



Well, 4th quarters weren't really a big factor in the '01 playoffs, neither did anything special in the 4th during that run because neither had to. Kobe did step up and have great 4th quarters in the '02 run, though, and it was important because Shaq struggled in the 4th during a good chunk of that run, especially the '02 series where he was the MVP of a series featuring the 2 best players in the league(Shaq and Duncan), and had great 4th quarters, while both Shaq and Duncan struggled offensively in the 4th.

The one difference about Kobe in '01 and '02 compared to his recent runs, or Duncan's runs, is that Kobe usually faced single coverage and wasn't the primary focus of opposing team's defenses. But his production and status in the league at the time(top 3) makes it difficult to write off as simply a "sidekick" ring.

[B]Same with others like McHale in '86(25/8/3, 2.4 bpg, 58 FG%, + great defensive, especially on Nique).[/B][/QUOTE]

Agreed with everything but I'll just nitpick the bolded.

McHale was definitely a "sidekick". We can never know for sure, but I'm convinced Bird's all time great playmaking/passing added 2 or 3 points to his ppg totals as well as 3/4 percent on top of his already great FG%. I know that McHale often lauded Bird's ability to find him under the hoop for wide open layups/dunks, particuarly during the '86 playoffs.

The difference between his '88 and '89 seasons gives you an idea. His ppg stayed the same but his FG% dropped by almost 6%! And in the 1st round vs Detroit, with him being the focus of Boston's offense, he only managed 19ppg on a measly 49% shooting, compared to 27ppg on 56% in the ECFs the pervious year.


McHale was very good but it was Bird who turned him into a borderline superstar.

[QUOTE=General]I rank Kobe ahead of Duncan. [B][COLOR="Red"]Duncan won one of his championships in a 50 game season, hardly impressive[/COLOR][/B] and it definitely hurts his rank for me. He's about to win one as a third option:oldlol:[/QUOTE]

Kobe didn't win it tho, you mad?

[QUOTE=StateOfMind12]You are right. I'm sure if Kobe didn't request for a trade to the Lakers, the Lakers wouldn't have made the Kwame Brown for Pau Gasol deal. I'm sure they would have kept Kwame Brown instead but because of that pressure Kobe gave them with his trade request, the Lakers were forced to agree.

/sarcasm.[/QUOTE]
The Lakers were content and were just milking the cash cow that is Kobe Bryant. When Bryant threatened to leave if he didn't have a competitive team around him the front office then started looking to improve the team.

"Do something and do it now" :bowdown:

Not sure if these people who keep linking that NBA poll in Duncan vs. Kobe debates are trolling or just stupid.

[QUOTE=konex]I've also seen Manu. He's the 2nd best player on the team, not Duncan ;)[/QUOTE]

Manu is too inconsistent. One game he will look like the best or second best player on the team, other games he's just another guy on the deep Spurs team.

Duncan is always rebounding, always a factor around the hoop protecting the rim even when he's marginal scoring the basketball (like last night)

Duncan is clearly their second best player.

Just to throw the numbers out there for these playoffs.

Duncan - 17ppg, 9.5 rpg, 3 apg and 2 bpg

Manu - 13.5 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 4.3 apg y

Duncan was good in the early 2000 but dude is not great no more. He is just a discent player. Tony Parker, that dude is amazing. Kobe carries a much bigger load than Duncan has to.

[QUOTE=andgar923]Kobe didn't win it tho, you mad?[/QUOTE]
Nope. Kobe merked Duncan and the Spurs in the Western Conference Finals two years later. He was the MVP of the series with an average of 33 points, 7 rebounds, and 7 assists. Everyone knows the WCF were the real finals. To top it off, it was in an 82 game season:oldlol:

[QUOTE=amfirst]Duncan was good in the early 2000 but dude is not great no more. He is just a discent player. Tony Parker, that dude is amazing. Kobe carries a much bigger load than Duncan has to.[/QUOTE]

Kobe fans.:rolleyes:

[QUOTE=General]Nope. Kobe merked Duncan and the Spurs in the Western Conference Finals two years later. He was the MVP of the series with an average of 33 points, 7 rebounds, and 7 assists. Everyone knows the WCF were the real finals. To top it off, it was in an 82 game season:oldlol:[/QUOTE]
What are you smoking?

[QUOTE=General]Nope. Kobe merked Duncan and the Spurs in the Western Conference Finals two years later. He was the MVP of the series with an average of 33 points, 7 rebounds, and 7 assists. Everyone knows the WCF were the real finals. To top it off, it was in an 82 game season:oldlol:[/QUOTE]

But THEY didn't win, the Spurs did.

You idiot.

If I was to draft Duncan or Kobe. I got Kobe. Kobe only needs a additional allstar player to win a ring. With Duncan u need a lot of pieces around him, like great three point shooters, a superstar pg, and star wingman.

[QUOTE=amfirst]If I was to draft Duncan or Kobe. I got Kobe. Kobe only needs a additional allstar player to win a ring. [B]With Duncan u need a lot of pieces around him, like great three point shooters, a superstar pg, and star wingman.[/B][/QUOTE]
Duncan's playoff run in 2003 makes you a proven idiot.

[QUOTE=andgar923]But THEY didn't win, the Spurs did.

You idiot.[/QUOTE]
I said I wasn't mad because Kobe merked Duncan two years later. Lakers swept the Spurs in 2001 WCF two years later:wtf:

[QUOTE=amfirst]If I was to draft Duncan or Kobe. I got Kobe. Kobe only needs a additional allstar player to win a ring. With Duncan u need a lot of pieces around him, like great three point shooters, a superstar pg, and star wingman.[/QUOTE]

This makes no sense at all.

[QUOTE=amfirst]If I was to draft Duncan or Kobe. I got Kobe. Kobe only needs a additional allstar player to win a ring. With Duncan u need a lot of pieces around him, like great three point shooters, a superstar pg, and star wingman.[/QUOTE]
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[QUOTE=amfirst]If I was to draft Duncan or Kobe. I got Kobe. Kobe only needs a additional allstar player to win a ring. With Duncan u need a lot of pieces around him, like great three point shooters, a superstar pg, and star wingman.[/QUOTE]

This is a joke right. Kobe needs to have one of the, if not the best front court to win. Look at Kobe when he had mediocre teams, his teams has done absolutely miserable.

Duncan has carried arguably the worst team to an NBA title ever, alongside with Hakeem.

Duncan even at this age is clearly the second best player on the Spurs.

Not to mention Kobe lead teams have been owning Duncan lead team in the playoffs. That alone should seperate them.

Comparing players that play different positions is hard because their responsabilities are very different. Apples and oranges.

I've never understood the ISH obsession with ranking players. Who gives a shit where any of us rank Duncan or Kobe? Nobody.

[QUOTE=Odinn]What are you smoking?[/QUOTE]
What? Point out where you disagree, or did you just misunderstand what I wrote?:confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=General]I said I wasn't mad because Kobe merked Duncan two years later. Lakers swept the Spurs in 2001 WCF two years later:wtf:[/QUOTE]

But you still missed the whole point. You made it a point to diminish Duncan's ring due to the short season, but the Lakers didn't win it. Who cares if the Lakers won 2 years later or next season, point was they lost that season.

[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]I have Duncan over Kobe, most in the media would disagree, and I can see a bit of a case for Kobe, even though Kobe's true prime was from '03-'09, imo, he was already pretty comprable to a prime Duncan in '01, and to a lesser extent '02.



Well, 4th quarters weren't really a big factor in the '01 playoffs, neither did anything special in the 4th during that run because neither had to. Kobe did step up and have great 4th quarters in the '02 run, though, and it was important because Shaq struggled in the 4th during a good chunk of that run, especially the '02 series where he was the MVP of a series featuring the 2 best players in the league(Shaq and Duncan), and had great 4th quarters, while both Shaq and Duncan struggled offensively in the 4th.

The one difference about Kobe in '01 and '02 compared to his recent runs, or Duncan's runs, is that Kobe usually faced single coverage and wasn't the primary focus of opposing team's defenses. But his production and status in the league at the time(top 3) makes it difficult to write off as simply a "sidekick" ring.

Same with others like McHale in '86(25/8/3, 2.4 bpg, 58 FG%, + great defensive, especially on Nique).[/QUOTE]

Great post as usual:applause: ''

[QUOTE=andgar923]But you still missed the whole point. You made it a point to diminish Duncan's ring due to the short season, but the Lakers didn't win it. Who cares if the Lakers won 2 years later or next season, point was they lost that season.[/QUOTE]
My point was that a championship in a 50 game season loses some it's value. I still stand by that if that's what you mean. Kobe was not the same player in 1998/1999 that he was in 2001.

[QUOTE=General]My point was that a championship in a 50 game season loses some it's value. I still stand by that if that's what you mean. Kobe was not the same player in 1998/1999 that he was in 2001.[/QUOTE]

Its fair to say that Kobe wasn't the same player,but neither was Duncan.

Of course Kobe-stans will claim an asterisk over 1999 title but you still have to win 4 rounds / 15-16 games. It doesn't take anything. They always try to make look better Kobe by discrediting his rivals(Shaq&Duncan).

[QUOTE=General]My point was that a championship in a 50 game season loses some it's value. I still stand by that if that's what you mean. Kobe was not the same player in 1998/1999 that he was in 2001.[/QUOTE]

Are you seriously this stupid? If winning a shortened season devalues a title to you because it is somehow lesser/easier in your mind, than losing said season is only going to make Kobe seem worse for not being able to win it :lol

[QUOTE=StateOfMind12]You are right. I'm sure if Kobe didn't request for a trade to the Lakers, the Lakers wouldn't have made the Kwame Brown for Pau Gasol deal. I'm sure they would have kept Kwame Brown instead but because of that pressure Kobe gave them with his trade request, the Lakers were forced to agree.

/sarcasm.[/QUOTE]

This isn't a videogame. Trading for Pau Gasol was a 9 figure decision. I have no doubt that the Lakers owners would have made more money waiting on Marc Gasol instead.

This whole devalue Kobe in an indirect attempt to bolster Lebron thing is getting old.

Some people have Kobe ranked higher. Some people have Duncan ranked higher. Usually they are right after the other, 8 or 9. And both have points. They are both Top 10 All Time, so this facade OP is trying to manifest to generate hate filled "discussion" towards Kobe is clear, obvious, and a fail.

Kobe has owned Duncan in the playoffs since Shaq left town. And, his last two rings as the undisputed Alpha, number option, on the team, are weighted heavier than Duncan's last one (and possibly two, if the Spurs go on to win a ring this year) when looking at the surrounding role players on the team. Parker, Ginobli, Bowen, and their entire roster from 2-10 this year, > Gasol and Bynum.

Still, Duncan is the greatest Power Foward to ever play the game. And has 3 FMVPs in comparison to Kobe's 2.

Regardless, you can't go wrong either way, and true fans of the game understand why. Duncan and Kobe, along with Shaq, have easily been the best players and had the best careers of the post-Jordan, 2000s era. Like someone said earlier, if someone, like Lebron for instance, wishes to top those three players in the Top 10, All-Time GOAT list, he better be bringing at least 3 rings to the table.

[QUOTE=tpols]Thats like equating Rip Hamilton's ring with the Pistons in 04 to Kobe's in 09/10 or Dirk's last year, or Shaq's from 00 to 02.. just stupid.:oldlol: He's averaging 16/9 and thats likely to go down as competition goes up.[/QUOTE]

Rip Hamilton(throughout 2004 playoffs): 21.5 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 4.2 apg on 45%

Kobe(throughout 2000 playoffs): 21.1 ppg, 4.5 rpgs, 4.4 apg on 44%

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]He is a locker room problem because he created the pressure that resulted in trading for Gasol which led to 2 more championships?

If Kobe had Duncan's demeanor the Lakers would probably still be trotting out Smush Parker and Kwame Brown.[/QUOTE]

If Kobe had Duncan's demeanor, he never would have ran Shaq/Jackson out of LA in '04. If Kobe had Duncan's demeanor, LA probably wins against Detroit in the '04 Finals(Kobe's ballhog mentality would be replaced by Duncan's team first mentality).

[QUOTE=General]My point was that a championship in a 50 game season loses some it's value. I still stand by that if that's what you mean. Kobe was not the same player in 1998/1999 that he was in 2001.[/QUOTE]

And the Spurs were not the same team in '01 that they were in '99. Sean Elliot was battling kidney disease, Robinson was washed up, Derek Anderson could barely make it onto the court against the Lakers after picking up a bad injury in the second round from a dirty Juwan Howard foul.

[QUOTE=Artillery]Weirdly enough, his playoff PER is actually higher than Parker/Ginobili's so you could argue he's the best player on this team. [/QUOTE]
He's not. The Spurs are a juggernaut offensive team with Parker running the show. He's clearly the 2nd best player though.

[QUOTE=chazzy]He's not. The Spurs are a juggernaut offensive team with Parker running the show. He's clearly the 2nd best player though.[/QUOTE]

Best player in the Clippers series :confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=Artillery]If Kobe had Duncan's demeanor, he never would have ran Shaq/Jackson out of LA in '04. If Kobe had Duncan's demeanor, LA probably wins against Detroit in the '04 Finals(Kobe's ballhog mentality would be replaced by Duncan's team first mentality).[/QUOTE]

Is Duncan a master mediator who can negotiate on behalf on Shaq and Jackson when it comes to money and the Buss family?

The awkward truth about the 04 Finals is that Kobe was the Lakers 2nd most efficient scorer after Shaq. So unless Duncan is planning on inspiring Shaq to score 80 pts a game, he's not going to help :confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=BlackVVaves]Kobe has owned Duncan in the playoffs since Shaq left town. [/QUOTE]

Nash's team have owned Kobe's teams in the playoffs. Nash is clearly>>>>>Bryant

:oldlol:

[QUOTE=BlackVVaves]And, his last two rings as the undisputed Alpha, number option, on the team, are weighted heavier than Duncan's last one (and possibly two, if the Spurs go on to win a ring this year) when looking at the surrounding role players on the team. Parker, Ginobli, Bowen, and their entire roster from 2-10 this year, > Gasol and Bynum. [/QUOTE]

Duncan was the only All-NBA player on the 1999, 2003, 2005, 2007 Spurs teams. He was clearly the best player. Compare that to Kobe having another All-NBA teammate on every one of his championship teams(Shaq for 00-02, Gasol '09-'10)

And lol at being weighed heavier. Gasol's win shares were higher than Kobe's throughout the 2010 playoffs. Their PERs was nearly identical. Duncan PER and win shares were well ahead of anyone else on the 2007 Spurs.

Some fans also think Kobe > Jordan :facepalm

These are almost always kids who started watching basketball in the 2000s and have no clue how much Jordan DOMINATED in an era that played true physical basketball.

This thread again.
Kobe can be compared to Wade, Lebron, TMAC, Barkley, Iverson, Dirk, KG, Malone and other second tier greats.
The dude won rings with the most dominant player ever. Then won with the best team in the league. He never once came close to doing what Tim did In 03. Not even close. Not even in the same neighborhood of close.
Stop arguing with Kobestans for the love of God.