Carmelo Anthony vs Kevin Durant, whats the difference?

[QUOTE=GOBB]I'm sorry when did Durant become a better playmaker than Carmelo Anthony? Stop it. Carmelo rep as a ball hog, chucking black hole has people giving other players extra credit for work they didnt f*cking complete. And no this doesnt say Durant hasnt made plays with the ball that didnt involve scoring. Its to say stop acting like Durant passing is much better than Melo. Its not.

Just because Durant wears a goofy book bag and dresses like a tool. Doesnt mean he somehow has become this better passing, playmaker than Carmelo.[/QUOTE]
Melo is a very skilled passer, but he KILLS ball movement. that's a fact

Carmelo Anthony PO: 28/8/2(:oldlol:thats assists )41%FG

Kevin Durant PO: 27/7/4(double the assists)50%FG

So Durant is twice as efficient, plays within the offense, has been a much better playmaker, is just as if not more clutch, and will undoubtedly play much better against Miami in the finals than Melo did in the first round. And of course I watched Durant single handedly lock Kobe up for the two collosal comebacks in the OKC-LAL series after Kobe had been torching Harden all game. His defense is so underrated.

Unless you think 1 extra rebound and 1 extra poiint eclipses a MASSIVE 9% FG difference, double the assists, and more impactful defense Durant has been way, way better than Melo this year and last actually.

[QUOTE=Sarcastic]Melo is a cancer, yet almost everyone does better with him. :rolleyes:

[IMG]http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/401810_10150835409006793_1618975742_n.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
So TS is the only way to gauge whether someone is playing 'better' with Melo? No points, assists or any other stats?:wtf:

I watched Melo all year this year and last on the Knicks.. he's a very low impact player. The definition of all flash and no substance.

:oldlol: @ acting like 4 assists is so much better than 2 assists.


.5 is twice as much as .25 as well, but that doesn't mean it's that much more. Using percentages at such low values is almost irrelevant.

[QUOTE=Sarcastic]Westbrook and Harden are better than anything Melo had in Denver. Iverson was past prime, and Billups was getting old as well.[/QUOTE]
Iverson was not past his prime. His most efficient seasons came when he was in Denver, and he still averaged around 25ppg

Billups was as good as ever. He had his two highest scoring seasons ever in Denver (his 2nd time there)

come on son

He also had prime Camby, Dre and KMart on his teams. + Denver have always had one of the better benches in the league

Durants playmaking is undervalued if you judge it off his per game numbers.

He's sharing the ball with two other perimeter big time players. If he was given more chances to run pick and roll and have the ball in his hands, his assists would go up naturally.

[QUOTE=guy]Durant's a much better defender, more efficient, and isn't as ball dominant.[/QUOTE]


Difference between Anthony and Durant? Everything "guy" said other then the more efficient part.

Duran would never hit 40 plus on Lebron James.

[QUOTE=kurple]Iverson was not past his prime. [B]His most efficient seasons came when he was in Denver[/B], and he still averaged around 25ppg

Billups was as good as ever. He had his two highest scoring seasons ever in Denver (his 2nd time there)

come on son

He also had prime Camby, Dre and KMart on his teams. + Denver have always had one of the better benches in the league[/QUOTE]


And why exactly do you think that is? Did he get better all of the sudden? Or is it that playing with a player like Melo got him much better looks at the basket?

Melo is a very good and talented basketball player.. But durant is clearly better

[QUOTE=Sarcastic]:oldlol: @ acting like 4 assists is so much better than 2 assists.


.5 is twice as much as .25 as well, but that doesn't mean it's that much more. Using percentages at such low values is almost irrelevant.[/QUOTE]
There's a HUGE difference between 2 and 4 assists from the SF position. Everyone who watches Melo says hes a blackhole.. the stats support it and theres really nothing you can say. And this while Durant has stepped up his playmaking in the playoffs.

If you want to compare regular season scoring:

Durant 28 on 50%
Melo 23 on 43%

Durant just shits on Melo and this will be a joke of a comparison in a few years.. possibly weeks if he wins a FMVP.

[QUOTE=Sarcastic]And why exactly do you think that is? Did he get better all of the sudden? Or is it that playing with a player like Melo got him much better looks at the basket?[/QUOTE]
They still lost in the 1st round every year..

Melo isnt a winner on the NBA level.. He could win by himself in college, but not on this level

[QUOTE=Sarcastic]And why exactly do you think that is? Did he get better all of the sudden? Or is it that playing with a player like Melo got him much better looks at the basket?[/QUOTE]
2005/2006 rule changes.. it was very easy to see why a small player like Iverson who constantly got bullied around in the early 2000s played much better when defenders werent allowed to touch him anymore.

[QUOTE=kurple]Melo is a very good and talented basketball player.. But durant is clearly better[/QUOTE]

I never said Melo was better, but the way people post on here, they make it seem like Melo is a D-League player compared to him.

[QUOTE=tpols]2005/2006 rule changes.. it was very easy to see why a small player like Iverson who constantly got bullied around in the early 2000s played much better when defenders werent allowed to touch him anymore.[/QUOTE]

Followed by a precipitous drop off the following year.

[QUOTE=pauk]I see these guys as CLONES... where one just so happen to be taller (and have a MUCH better team)

Who do you think is better?[/QUOTE]

failpauk.com

One is a cancer, one is not.

Allen Iverson @ 31 years old shoots 41% with Philly, then goes to Denver and shoots 45% for the rest of the year. The next year at 32 he shoots 45% with Denver the whole year. The next year at 33 he is in Detroit shooting 41% again.

Yea, Melo had nothing to do with his improved shooting percent. :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=Sarcastic]Melo is a cancer, yet almost everyone does better with him. :rolleyes:

[IMG]http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/401810_10150835409006793_1618975742_n.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

That's nice. You do realize what this chart says right? It says that a team fully build around Anthony performs better when he is playing, than when the second unit is playing.

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/U9YgR.gif[/IMG]

Now look at the play of his teammates before and after they played with Anthony. Where the f[FONT="Arial"]uck[/FONT] is your chart with Amare's numbers with the Knicks before Anthony came to town, and after?

Now look at how well Anthony's teams do for the overall talent level on the roster.

they are similar imo...Durant is a better jumpshooter. Overall, I think Durant benefits a lot from playing with such a stacked team because he can disappear for quarters at a time in playoff games(helps his fg%).

[QUOTE]He's sharing the ball with two other perimeter big time players. If he was given more chances to run pick and roll and have the ball in his hands, his assists would go up naturally.[/QUOTE]

he doesn't seem like he is very good at it in the halfcourt though.

[QUOTE=Sarcastic]Allen Iverson @ 31 years old shoots 41% with Philly, then goes to Denver and shoots 45% for the rest of the year. The next year at 32 he shoots 45% with Denver the whole year. The next year at 33 he is in Detroit shooting 41% again.

Yea, Melo had nothing to do with his improved shooting percent. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
He got older.:oldlol: What do you expect? Not to mention he goes from playing on a contender level team in Denver to fvcking Detroit.. where his motivation wasnt the same as an aging/declining player on a losing team.

[QUOTE=LJJ]That's nice. You do realize what this chart says right? It says that a team fully build around Anthony performs better when he is playing, than when the second unit is playing.

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/U9YgR.gif[/IMG]

Now look at the play of his teammates before and after they played with Anthony. Where the f[FONT="Arial"]uck[/FONT] is your chart with Amare's numbers with the Knicks before Anthony came to town, and after?

Now look at how well Anthony's teams do for the overall talent level on the roster.[/QUOTE]

What are you talking about? The chart shows how players shoot in the minutes with Melo and without. Allen Iverson was a career 51% TS player before he played with Melo. In the time he did play with Melo he was a 55% TS player.


As for his time with Amar'e. Well they spent most of it with the worst coach in basketball. Look what Jalen Rose had to say about Pringles.

[url]http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/43774/nba-today-jalen-rose-luc-richard-mbah-a-moute[/url]

[QUOTE]I played for the Phoenix Suns. 2007. My last season. As were playing against the San Antonio Spurs. And I remember us coming to our first practice before Game 1. And we brought it in. And we were excited about our playoffs getting started. And Coach D'Antoni put in some film. It was Steve behind the back. Amare slam dunk. Shawn Marion with the block. Raja Bell with the charge. It was a highlight film of our team. They have showed me making a shot on there, and I was barely even playing.

So after that he as like all right, we're going to run and down, go through our set plays and whatnot, and we're going to get out of here.

And I looked at Kurt Thomas. I hit him with an elbow. I'm like hold on. I gotta say something.

So I did my Arnold Horshack from "Welcome Back, Kotter."

I'm like "ooh, ooh, ooh, hey coach. I gotta ask a question. Are we going to talk about how we're going to defend Tim Duncan on the post? Are we going to talk about Manu Ginobili in pick and roll? Keeping Tony Parker out of the paint?"

[B][SIZE="4"]He looked at me in front of the entire team and coaching staff and said: "We're not worried about what they do. If we play to the best of our abilities, and do what we're supposed to do, there is no way they can beat us. We don't mind if Tim goes off. If Tim goes off, that means everybody else is quiet."[/SIZE][/B] [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=tpols]He got older.:oldlol: What do you expect? Not to mention he goes from playing on a contender level team in Denver to fvcking Detroit.. where his motivation wasnt the same as an aging/declining player on a losing team.[/QUOTE]

So 33 is old, but 32 is his most efficient year ever. Ok.


:durantunimpressed:

[QUOTE=GOBB]

Durant defense can be just as ridiculous as Carmelo's. But you dont like Carmelo so you give Durant the lead in defense. Get out of here. Stop it.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBxzrUVRVsI[/url]

Who should I listen to? You or George Karl?

Durant is the better defender even if you do want to Karl's opinion worth a grain of salt. Durant is a much better man to man defender and he showed in the 2nd round of the playoffs when he matched up with Kobe in the 4th. Kobe couldn't buy a shot when Durant was on him and it was brick city all day.

He showed more flashes of great defenses other times as well but this is the best example I could think of.

I suggest you simply watch more Thunder/Durant games.

[QUOTE=Sarcastic]As for his time with Amar'e. Well they spent most of it with the worst coach in basketball. [/QUOTE]
Blah, Blah, Blah

D'Antonis offense known for making the players post up better #'s than they should

[QUOTE=Sarcastic]What are you talking about? The chart shows how players shoot in the minutes with Melo and without. Allen Iverson was a career 51% TS player before he played with Melo. In the time he did play with Melo he was a 55% TS player.


As for his time with Amar'e. Well they spent most of it with the worst coach in basketball. Look what Jalen Rose had to say about Pringles.

[url]http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/43774/nba-today-jalen-rose-luc-richard-mbah-a-moute[/url][/QUOTE]
How come the Knicks offense was so terrible the past few years though? Your quote shows why their D was ass. But Pringles had coached some great offensive teams in Pheonix and even had Amare playing great before Melo arrived just like with the Suns. When he came over and had Melo though? The offense was beyond terrible.

Wait that was because they had no training camp right?:oldlol:

[QUOTE=Sarcastic]:oldlol: @ acting like 4 assists is so much better than 2 assists.


.5 is twice as much as .25 as well, but that doesn't mean it's that much more. Using percentages at such low values is almost irrelevant.[/QUOTE]
But you pointed out that Melo averages more assists(by 0.1 :oldlol:) and less turnovers (about 1 less) than Durant in response to jbot?

[QUOTE=StateOfMind12]

Who should I listen to? You or George Karl?
[/QUOTE]
If there's one guy that doesnt know defense, then it's george karl..

but KD do have more effort on D

The only advantage of Melo to Durant is, Melo is stronger and has legit post up game compared to Durant. Everything else is <<<<<<<<<<<<< Durant.

Are people in here seriously trying to debate Melo's defense vs KD's? It's KD by a landslide. It's not even close. Check his synergy numbers this year. KD was one of the better iso defenders in the game.

Honestly I can't even believe we're still having Melo vs KD discussions. KD is one of the top 2 players in the world. Melo MIGHT break top 20. MIGHT.

[QUOTE=OKCThunderUP]Are people in here seriously trying to debate Melo's defense vs KD's? It's KD by a landslide. It's not even close. Check his synergy numbers this year. KD was one of the better iso defenders in the game.

Honestly I can't even believe we're still having Melo vs KD discussions. KD is one of the top 2 players in the world. Melo MIGHT break top 20. MIGHT.[/QUOTE]

Yep. People need to quit living in the past. We're three years removed from 2009 ya know? :lol

[QUOTE=OKCThunderUP]Are people in here seriously trying to debate Melo's defense vs KD's? It's KD by a landslide. It's not even close. Check his synergy numbers this year. KD was one of the better iso defenders in the game.

Honestly I can't even believe we're still having Melo vs KD discussions. KD is one of the top 2 players in the world. Melo MIGHT break top 20. MIGHT.[/QUOTE]
why cant 14 year old boys handle that their favorite team is doing well without turning into assholes?

melo is clearly top 20

[QUOTE=OKCThunderUP]Are people in here seriously trying to debate Melo's defense vs KD's? It's KD by a landslide. It's not even close. Check his synergy numbers this year. KD was one of the better iso defenders in the game.

Honestly I can't even believe we're still having Melo vs KD discussions. KD is one of the top 2 players in the world. Melo MIGHT break top 20. MIGHT.[/QUOTE]
Agree with everything except the last part. I have him in my Top 15. :oldlol: Nothing too major, but thought i'd point that out.

[QUOTE=Fudge]But you pointed out that Melo averages more assists(by 0.1 :oldlol:) and less turnovers (about 1 less) than Durant in response to jbot?[/QUOTE]

I am not saying Melo is is twice as good a passer as Durant. I am saying they are relatively equal as playmakers, and the notion that Durant blows him out because of 2 extra assists is a joke.

Dammit weve all been trolled by pauk:facepalm

[QUOTE=kurple]Blah, Blah, Blah

D'Antonis offense known for making the players post up better #'s than they should[/QUOTE]

That's true for point guards, ie Jeremy Lin, Raymond Felton, etc.

[QUOTE=OKCThunderUP]Are people in here seriously trying to debate Melo's defense vs KD's? It's KD by a landslide. It's not even close. Check his synergy numbers this year. KD was one of the better iso defenders in the game.

Honestly I can't even believe we're still having Melo vs KD discussions. KD is one of the top 2 players in the world. Melo MIGHT break top 20. MIGHT.[/QUOTE]

Name 20 players better than Carmelo. Please.

[QUOTE=OKCThunderUP]Are people in here seriously trying to debate Melo's defense vs KD's? It's KD by a landslide. It's not even close. Check his synergy numbers this year. KD was one of the better iso defenders in the game.

Honestly I can't even believe we're still having Melo vs KD discussions. KD is one of the top 2 players in the world. Melo MIGHT break top 20. MIGHT.[/QUOTE]

Name 20 players better than Melo. We're waiting.

[QUOTE=OKCThunderUP]Are people in here seriously trying to debate Melo's defense vs KD's? It's KD by a landslide. It's not even close. Check his synergy numbers this year. KD was one of the better iso defenders in the game.

Honestly I can't even believe we're still having Melo vs KD discussions. KD is one of the top 2 players in the world. Melo MIGHT break top 20. MIGHT.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://imageftw.com/uploads/20120506/1336340668789.gif[/IMG]

repulsive post is repulsive.

[QUOTE=Sarcastic]Name 20 players better than Carmelo. Please.[/QUOTE]

See SI's Top 100 list from this past summer.

I might actually move him up to around 15 after this season because some guys have fallen off. But he's still not comparable to KD.

Inch for inch, there's going to be arguments about who's better in passing and whatever it may be.

Pound for pound, KD is the better overall player hands down.