09-10
08-09
11-12
07-08
05-06
10-11
06-07
04-05
03-04
Printable View
09-10
08-09
11-12
07-08
05-06
10-11
06-07
04-05
03-04
From Accomplishments Perspective:
1) 2012
2) 2009
3) 2007
4) 2011
5) 2008
6) 2010
7) 2006
8) 2005
9) 2004
From Game / Ability Perspective:
1) 2010
2) 2009
3) 2012
4) 2008
5) 2011
6) 2006
7) 2007
8) 2005
9) 2004
[QUOTE=Money 23]From Accomplishments Perspective:
1) 2012
2) 2009
3) 2007
4) 2011
5) 2008
6) 2010
7) 2006
8) 2005
9) 2004
From Game / Ability Perspective:
1) 2010
2) 2009
3) 2012
4) 2008
5) 2011
6) 2006
7) 2007
8) 2005
9) 2004[/QUOTE]
I just don't see the case for 10' or 09' Lebron over current Lebron. He had better stats, but that's because he played an entirely different role, a role much more conducive to accruing stats.
09' and 10' Lebron had a visibly quicker first step, but current Lebron has a much better post game, is a much better off the ball player, is a better shooter, and is a much better defender.
Statistics measure a player's ability to perform his role more-so than they do his ability.
[QUOTE=DatAsh]
09' and 10' Lebron had a visibly quicker first step, but current Lebron has a much better post game, is a much better off the ball player, is a better shooter, and is a much better defender.[/quote]
He's also a better defender since joining Miami due to the same context you hold against him for '09 and '10 having better stats offensively. He had tremendous amounts of help in Miami offensively, that allows him to spend more energy on defense.
LeBron still mostly plays on the perimeter. He has a slightly better post game, it's still nothing to be insanely proud of ... and he's a marginally better off the ball player. If you're playing PG on the perimeter, I will take the more athletic, quicker, explosive 2009 and 2010 model of LeBron.
For much of 2012, LeBron scored seemingly the majority of his points in transition. 2009 and 2010 LeBron could score better in the half court. He's regained some of his quickness, but 2012 and even more so 2011 LeBron were really slow off the dribble.
I'm not saying 2009 and 2010 LeBron are better in terms of ability due to stats, I'm talking from the eye test. I feel his physical abilities in those seasons allow him to play better at his more natural game of play making point guard.
Given he has Wade and Bosh on his team, two elite ISO players ... I still don't feel he plays off the ball as much, or good enough as he should. He still dominates possessions with the ball in his hands. Which in turns minimizes Wade's effectiveness, since they are similar players. If that's the case, then give me 2009 and 2010 LeBron. 2013 LeBron has more of the traits of 2009 and 2010 LeBron than 2012 and 2011 did. He looks quicker off the first step this year than he has in sometime. He's looked good ever since that game 6 in Boston.
[QUOTE=Money 23]He's also a better defender since joining Miami due to the same context you hold against him for '09 and '10 having better stats offensively. He had tremendous amounts of help in Miami offensively, that allows him to spend more energy on defense.
[/QUOTE]
That's true.
[QUOTE]LeBron still mostly plays on the perimeter. He has a slightly better post game, it's still nothing to be insanely proud of ... and he's a marginally better off the ball player. If you're playing PG on the perimeter, I will take the more athletic, quicker, explosive 2009 and 2010 model of LeBron.[/QUOTE]
He's not just a slightly better post player and off ball player, he's much better at both aspects. Hell, he's probably 3-4x the off ball player he was in Cleveland. It's almost like he didn't even know how to play off the ball when he first arrived in Miami; he kinda just stood off in the corner.
He's also a better shooter now than he ever was before.
[QUOTE]For much of 2012, LeBron scored seemingly the majority of his points in transition.
[/QUOTE]
That's simply not true. In fact, the 09' and 10' Cavs actually averaged more transition points per game than the 12' or 13' Heat, for which Lebron was probably even a bigger contributor, seeing as how he didn't have to share the transition points with Wade.
[QUOTE] 2009 and 2010 LeBron could score better in the half court. [/QUOTE]
In the role he was playing, yes. 09' or 10' Lebron wouldn't be as good of scorer on the current Miami Heat though as he doesn't have the off ball ability at all, and he can't play the post the way they rely on current Lebron to.
[QUOTE] He's regained some of his quickness, but 2012 and even more so 2011 LeBron were really slow off the dribble. [/QUOTE]
He seemed a lot slower in 2011 than he did 2012.
[QUOTE]I'm not saying 2009 and 2010 LeBron are better in terms of ability due to stats, I'm talking from the eye test. I feel his physical abilities in those seasons allow him to play better at his more natural game of play making point guard.[/QUOTE]
The eye test can be equally as deceiving - if not more-so - if context isn't taken into account. People always neglect role when it comes to judging player statistics and the implications they have on player ability; it's a big reason why people think Wade's dropped off a lot more than he actually has.
[QUOTE]Given he has Wade and Bosh on his team, two elite ISO players ... I still don't feel he plays off the ball as much, or good enough as he should. He still dominates possessions with the ball in his hands.[/QUOTE]
I agree, but he doesn't just stand there and do nothing off the ball or dominate 90% of the shot clock like he did in Cleveland.
[QUOTE]Which in turns minimizes Wade's effectiveness, since they are similar players. If that's the case, then give me 2009 and 2010 LeBron. [/QUOTE]
Agreed, but again, Cavs Lebron would minimize Wade even more.
[QUOTE]2013 LeBron has more of the traits of 2009 and 2010 LeBron than 2012 and 2011 did. He looks quicker off the first step this year than he has in sometime. He's looked good ever since that game 6 in Boston.[/QUOTE]
I can somewhat see that. I think this is his best year so far.