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[B]1965 EDF Gm. 7[/B]
Bill Russell: 15 pts, 29 rebounds, 8 assists, 6 blocks
Wilt Chamberlain: 30 pts, 32 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 block (Took the game over late in the 3rd quarter into the 4th)
[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESDFppbQ2zM&t=2m31s"]www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESDFppbQ2zM&t=2m31s[/URL]
He was a few bricked free throws from winning more rings.
[QUOTE=Trumpin]33 shots to get 37 points isn't a bowdown performance.[/QUOTE]
Good job completely ignoring the 17 rebounds, 5 assists and 3 blocks. Once again proving.......
ISH, where scoring is the ONLY thing that matters.
[QUOTE=NumberSix]Good job completely ignoring the 17 rebounds, 5 assists and 3 blocks. Once again proving.......
ISH, where scoring is the ONLY thing that matters.[/QUOTE]
Plus it was 18-33. Very efficient, especially on that kind of volume.
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]When you miss 7, 8, 9 FTs in close games of 1, 2, 3 point losses, that happens[/QUOTE]
Chamberlain's TEAMs shot more FT's and MADE more FTs, in nearly EVERY one of his 35 Finals games. Why? BECAUSE of Chamberlain. I will take the time later, to break those down, but last I looked, his TEAM's shot more FTs and MADE more FTs, in 26 of those 35 games (26-6-3 to be exact), and some by HUGE margins.
Furthermore, Wilt's TEAMs either LED, or were among the very top, in FTAs in his almost every season of his career. And his '67 Sixers were LIGHT YEARS ahead of their opposition in that regard (BTW, Chamberlain shot 22-72 from the line in the '67 Finals...and his Sixers easily won the title. Oh, and BTW, he outshot Thurmond from the FLOOR in that series by a .560 to .343 margin. Think about this...in that series, Chamberlain's Sixers shot 173-282 from the line, to SF's 133-190. Even taking Wilt's FT-FTA out of the equation, his TEAM STILL outscored the Warriors.
You want a great example of Wilt's IMPACT at the line? How about this? In his 68-69 season, Wilt's Lakers LED the NBA in FTA's (and they would outscore and outshoot Boston in the Finals with a 182-286 to 159-203 margin.) In fact, they would outshoot Boston in ALL seven games in that series.
The next year, Chamberlain went down with an injury early in the season, and would only play in 12 games. Where did his Lakers finish in FTAs? TWELFTH is a 14 team league. BUT, then Chamberlain returned for the playoffs. Guess what? His Lakers shot 200 MORE FTAs than the next best team (NY), and outscored the Knicks from the line in the Finals by going 176-257 to NY's 122-176.) Once again, the outshot and OUTSCORED the Knicks from the line in EVERY game in that series.
The fact was, Chamberlain's IMPACT from the line was dramatic. His teammates BENEFITTED from getting to the line earlier, and in the bonus faster, and to the line more often, BECAUSE of Chamberlain. Not only that, but Wilt getting opposing players and entire TEAMS in foul trouble. How many easy baskets did his teammates receive because of either lax defense, or because the opposing starter was on the bench?
And Wilt OUTSCORED his opposing centers in nearly every game, as well. For instance in his '65 ECF's against Russell, he not only outshot Russell from the line by a .583 to .472 margin, he OUTSCORED Russell by a 49-17 margin.
And finally, Chamberlain was the king of "and-one's" too. Why is that significant? Because those FTAs were BONUS attempts. He not only made the FG, but he then took a FTA as well.
THAT was Wilt's true IMPACT at the line.
[QUOTE=PHILA][B]1965 EDF Gm. 7[/B]
Bill Russell: 15 pts, 29 rebounds, 8 assists, 6 blocks
Wilt Chamberlain: 30 pts, 32 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 block (Took the game over late in the 3rd quarter into the 4th)
[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESDFppbQ2zM&t=2m31s"]www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESDFppbQ2zM&t=2m31s[/URL][/QUOTE]
Chamberlain not only outshot Russell from the field in that seven game series (while outscoring him, 30.1 ppg to 15.6 ppg) .555 to .447, he outshot Russell from the LINE, as well (.583 to .472.) And, as ALWAYS, he OUTSCORED Russell from the line, as well, 49-17.
[QUOTE=jlauber]Chamberlain's TEAMs shot more FT's and MADE more FTs, in nearly EVERY one of his 35 Finals games. Why? BECAUSE of Chamberlain. I will take the time later, to break those down, but last I looked, his TEAM's shot more FTs and MADE more FTs, in 26 of those 35 games (26-6-3 to be exact), and some by HUGE margins.
Furthermore, Wilt's TEAMs either LED, or were among the very top, in FTAs in his almost every season of his career. And his '67 Sixers were LIGHT YEARS ahead of their opposition in that regard (BTW, Chamberlain shot 22-72 from the line in the '67 Finals...and his Sixers easily won the title. Oh, and BTW, he outshot Thurmond from the FLOOR in that series by a .560 to .343 margin. Think about this...in that series, Chamberlain's Sixers shot 173-282 from the line, to SF's 133-190. Even taking Wilt's FT-FTA out of the equation, his TEAM STILL outscored the Warriors.
You want a great example of Wilt's IMPACT at the line? How about this? In his 68-69 season, Wilt's Lakers LED the NBA in FTA's (and they would outscore and outshoot Boston in the Finals with a 182-286 to 159-203 margin.) In fact, they would outshoot Boston in ALL seven games in that series.
The next year, Chamberlain went down with an injury early in the season, and would only play in 12 games. Where did his Lakers finish in FTAs? TWELFTH is a 14 team league. BUT, then Chamberlain returned for the playoffs. Guess what? His Lakers shot 200 MORE FTAs than the next best team (NY), and outscored the Knicks from the line in the Finals by going 176-257 to NY's 122-176.) Once again, the outshot and OUTSCORED the Knicks from the line in EVERY game in that series.
The fact was, Chamberlain's IMPACT from the line was dramatic. His teammates BENEFITTED from getting to the line earlier, and in the bonus faster, and to the line more often, BECAUSE of Chamberlain. Not only that, but Wilt getting opposing players and entire TEAMS in foul trouble. How many easy baskets did his teammates receive because of either lax defense, or because the opposing starter was on the bench?
And Wilt OUTSCORED his opposing centers in nearly every game, as well. For instance in his '65 ECF's against Russell, he not only outshot Russell from the line by a .583 to .472 margin, he OUTSCORED Russell by a 49-17 margin.
And finally, Chamberlain was the king of "and-one's" too. Why is that significant? Because those FTAs were BONUS attempts. He not only made the FG, but he then took a FTA as well.
THAT was Wilt's true IMPACT at the line.[/QUOTE]
What? What??
Anyways, just answer this question for me: If Wilt made a couple of more FTs in these games, does his team win?
'69 Finals, Game 7: 4-13 FT...(2 point loss)
'68 Div Finals, Game 7: 6-15 FT...(4 point loss)
'65 Div Finals, Game 7: 6-13 FT...(1 point loss)
[QUOTE=Horatio33]He was a few bricked free throws from winning more rings.[/QUOTE]
Actually Chamberlain CARRIED inferior supporting casts, who played even worse in the post-season, to within an eye-lash of beating Russell's HOF-laden teams FOUR times. AND, when he finally had an equal supporting cast, that was healthy, and they wiped out Russell's 60-21 Celtic, 4-1 (and only a poor game four, four point loss, prevented a SWEEP), in a series in which Chamberlain just trashed Russell in EVERY facet of the game.
Sure, had he made a few more FTs, he would have won more rings. Had Bird not bricked so many FGAs in his post-season career, or had not Kareem shot so poorly from the field in so many playoff series (and outplayed in several), they too might have won more rings. In fact, Bird had some downright AWFUL shooting games in his post-season career. My god, in arguably his greatest statistical season, 87-88, he had his biggest meltdown in the playoffs (name another all-time great who shot .351 in a post-season series.) And a PRIME Kareem had two straight playoff runs of .437 and .428 shooting (as well as being outplayed by Wilt in '71 and '72; Thurmond in '72; and Moses in '81 and '83.)
BUT, Chamberlain gets ripped for taking a 40-40 team to a game seven, one point loss, against a HOF-laden 62-18 Celtic team at it's PEAK...in a series in which he outscored Russell, per game, 30.1 ppg to 15.6 ppg; outrebounded Russell, per game, 31.4 rpg to 25.2 rpg; outshot Russell from the floor by a .555 to .447 margin; and even outshot Russell from the LINE, by a .583 to .472 margin (outscoring him from the line in the process by a 49-17 margin.)
[QUOTE=jlauber][B]Actually Chamberlain CARRIED inferior supporting casts, who played even worse in the post-season, to within an eye-lash of beating Russell's HOF-laden teams FOUR times[/B]. AND, when he finally had an equal supporting cast, that was healthy, and they wiped out Russell's 60-21 Celtic, 4-1 (and only a poor game four, four point loss, prevented a SWEEP), in a series in which Chamberlain just trashed Russell in EVERY facet of the game.
Sure, had he made a few more FTs, he would have won more rings. Had Bird not bricked so many FGAs in his post-season career, or had not Kareem shot so poorly from the field in so many playoff series (and outplayed in several), they too might have won more rings. In fact, Bird had some downright AWFUL shooting games in his post-season career. My god, in arguably his greatest statistical season, 87-88, he had his biggest meltdown in the playoffs (name another all-time great who shot .351 in a post-season series.) And a PRIME Kareem had two straight playoff runs of .437 and .428 shooting (as well as being outplayed by Wilt in '71 and '72; Thurmond in '72; and Moses in '81 and '83.)
BUT, Chamberlain gets ripped for taking a 40-40 team to a game seven, one point loss, against a HOF-laden 62-18 Celtic team at it's PEAK...in a series in which he outscored Russell, per game, 30.1 ppg to 15.6 ppg; outrebounded Russell, per game, 31.4 rpg to 25.2 rpg; outshot Russell from the floor by a .555 to .447 margin; and even outshot Russell from the LINE, by a .583 to .472 margin (outscoring him from the line in the process by a 49-17 margin.)[/QUOTE]
:oldlol:
[QUOTE]1968 Divisional Finals
Another HCA series loss for Wilt. Wilt shot 6-21 from the field and missed 15 freethrows in a Game 6 loss. [B]In Game 7, Wilt made 4 field goals and missed 9 freethrows in a 4 point loss. Wilt was the 9th leading scorer and the 5th leading scorer on his own team in that game 7 with 14 points[/B][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]1962 Divisional Finals
Coming off his 50.4 ppg season, his PPG in the Playoffs dropped down by 15 points. In Game 7, Wilt was the 4th leading scorer with 22 points in a loss.[/QUOTE]
In the '69 Finals, it was Bill Russell's LAST SEASON, while Wilt had a PEAK Jerry West and Elgin Baylor. Wilt's team had HCA and Wilt's teammate, who was better than wilt himself that year averaged 37.9 PPG in the Finals (2nd highest EVER) and had 42-13-12 in Game 7. Wilt still lost :oldlol:
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]:oldlol:
In '69 Finals, it was Bill Russell's LAST SEASON, while Wilt had a PEAK Jerry West and Elgin Baylor. Wilt's team had HCA and Wilt's teammate, who was better than wilt himself that year averaged 37.9 PPG in the Finals (2nd highest EVER) and had 42-13-12 in Game 7. Wilt still lost :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
How the **** does that even happen? Wow
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]What? What??
Anyways, just answer this question for me: If Wilt made a couple of more FTs in these games, does his team win?
'69 Finals, Game 7: 4-13 FT...(2 point loss)
'68 Div Finals, Game 7: 6-15 FT...(4 point loss)
'65 Div Finals, Game 7: 6-13 FT...(1 point loss)[/QUOTE]
Yep. And if Bird doesn't go 7-19 from the line in the pivotal game four of the '87 Finals, including MISSING the potential game-winning shot at the buzzer, then perhaps Boston goes on to win that series.
Hell, WEST, who scored 42 points in that game seven of the '69 Finals, missed FOUR FTs, including TWO in the 4th quarter. Not to mention baylor shooting 4-14 from the floor in a game three, six point loss (BTW, he AND West combined to shoot 1-14 in that 4th quarter.) Or baylor not only going 2-12 from the field in a game four, one point loss, but also shooting 1-6 from the LINE. Or Baylor shooting 8-22 from the FIELD in that game seven, two point loss, while Chamberlain went 7-8 from the floor.
Kareem taking his 60-22 Bucks down in flames against the 47-35 Warriors in the '73 playoffs, when Thurmond reduced him to a .428 shooter (and the year before Nate outscored and outshot Kareem, while holding him to .405 shooting.) Or Kareem shooting .414 from the field in the last four pivotal games of the '72 WCF's, including 16-36 in the clinching game six, 104-100 loss (and going 2-8 from the floor in the 4th period...while Chamberlain took complete control of the game.) Or Kareem being outplayed by 6-9 Dave Cowens in the game seven of the '74 Finals. Or Kareem being outplayed by Moses in both '81 (and Moses leading his 40-42 Rockets team past Kareem's 54-28 Lakers), and then abttering Kareem in the '83 Finals (in a sweeping loss.)
Hell, I guess you could blame Jordan fopr losing that OT game in the '86 playoffs against Boston, when he scored 63 points. After all, he missed two FTs in that game. Had he MADE them, they would have won the game.
That is just how RIDICULOUS these assertions are. Shaq had many post-season meltdowns from the line (36-93 in the '00 Finals), and Russell had post-seasons that were under .600...and yet, those two combined for 15 rings.
[QUOTE=SilkkTheShocker]How the **** does that even happen? Wow[/QUOTE]
If you would RESEARCH that series you would know. BAYLOR personally cost LA THREE games, and Chamberlain's COACH cost the Lakers game seven (as well as being horribly outcoached by Russell.)
In that game seven, two point loss, and with Chamberlain on the BENCH in the last five minutes, and with his replacement Mel Counts shooting 4-13 from the field, in a game in which Wilt shot 7-8, Chamberlain's teammates collectively shot .360 from the floor. Instead of blaming Wilt, who outscored Russell, 18-6, outrebounded Russell, 27-21, and outshot Russell from the floor by 7-8 to 2-7 margin, maybe you can now tell me who really blew that series.
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]:oldlol:
In the '69 Finals, it was Bill Russell's LAST SEASON, while Wilt had a PEAK Jerry West and Elgin Baylor. Wilt's team had HCA and Wilt's teammate, who was better than wilt himself that year averaged 37.9 PPG in the Finals (2nd highest EVER) and had 42-13-12 in Game 7. Wilt still lost :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
That PEAK Baylor was in fact, a SHELL of what he had been in his prime. BTW, he also shot a team WORST .385 in the post-season, and cost his team THREE games in the Finals (shooting 4-14, 2-12, and 8-22 from the field in those three losses, as well as going 1-6 from the LINE in a one point game three loss.)
Even West MISSED FOUR FTS in that game seven (for those that want to blame Wilt's FT shooting.) And in a game three, six point loss, he and Baylor combined to shoot 1-14 from the field in the critical 4th quarter.
Of course, West would choke in game seven of the '70 Finals, when Frazier destroyed him. Then, in the '72 Finals, in a series in which Chamberlain won the FMVP with a 19-23 .600 series, West shot .325. And in his last Finals, in '73, West shot .443, including a 5-17 series clinching loss performance (while Chamberlain, in his LAST game of his career, put up a 23 point, 21 rebound, 9-16 shooting game.)
[QUOTE=jlauber]That PEAK Baylor was in fact, a SHELL of what he had been in his prime. BTW, he also shot a team WORST .385 in the post-season, and cost his team THREE games in the Finals (shooting 4-14, 2-12, and 8-22 from the field in those three losses, as well as going 1-6 from the LINE in a one point game three loss.)
Even West MISSED FOUR FTS in that game seven (for those that want to blame Wilt's FT shooting.) And in a game three, six point loss, he and Baylor combined to shoot 1-14 from the field in the critical 4th quarter.
Of course, West would choke in game seven of the '70 Finals, when Frazier destroyed him. Then, in the '72 Finals, in a series in which Chamberlain won the FMVP with a 19-23 .600 series, West shot .325. And in his last Finals, in '73, West shot .443, including a 5-17 series clinching loss performance (while Chamberlain, in his LAST game of his career, put up a 23 point, 21 rebound, 9-16 shooting game.)[/QUOTE]
WHY DO YOU BLAME EVERYBODY BUT WILT?
Ugh..
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]:oldlol:
In the '69 Finals, it was Bill Russell's LAST SEASON, while Wilt had a PEAK Jerry West and Elgin Baylor. Wilt's team had HCA and Wilt's teammate, who was better than wilt himself that year averaged 37.9 PPG in the Finals (2nd highest EVER) and had 42-13-12 in Game 7. Wilt still lost :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
BTW, where was Russell's SCORING in those games?
Oh, and in the '62 post-season, Chamberlain's teammates collectively shot .354 from the field. Now, you tell me how the hell Chamberlain took that cast of clowns (the core of which was the same LAST PLACE roster that Wlt inherited in '60) to a game seven, two point loss, against a 60-20 Celtic team with SEVEN HOFers? Oh, and all Wilt did was averaged 34-26 and on .468 shooting (he held Russell to .399 shooting BTW), in a post-season NBA that shot .411 (yes, Wilt was once again WAY ahead of the league average.) Included in that post-season were games of 41 and 42 points against Russell (outscoring Russell, 42-9; outrebounding Russell, 37-20; and outshooting Russell, 16-31 to 4-14.)
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]WHY DO YOU BLAME EVERYBODY BUT WILT?
Ugh..[/QUOTE]
Because, besides West in the '69 Finals, Chamberlain was arguably the best player on the floor in every post-season series in which he played. And he flat crushed his opposing centers in many of them.
[QUOTE=jlauber]Because, besides West in the '69 Finals, Chamberlain was arguably the best player on the floor in every post-season series in which he played. And he flat crushed his opposing centers in many of them.[/QUOTE]
Wilt never did anything wrong. Never ever.
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]Wilt never did anything wrong. Never ever.[/QUOTE]
I challenge you to produce EVERY "must-win" and "series clinching" performance, as well as those of their OPPOSING players, that compares to this...
[QUOTE]Ok, here are the known numbers in Wilt's "must-win" playoff games (elimination games), and clinching game performances (either deciding winning or losing games), of BOTH Chamberlain, and his starting opposing centers in those games.
1. Game three of a best-of-three series in the first round of the 59-60 playoffs against Syracuse, a 132-112 win. Wilt with 53 points, on 24-42 shooting, with 22 rebounds. His opposing center, Red Kerr, who was a multiple all-star in his career, had 7 points.
2. Game five of the 59-60 ECF's against Boston, a 128-107 win. Chamberlain had 50 points, on 22-42 shooting, with 35 rebounds. His opposing center, Russell, had 22 points and 27 rebounds.
3. Game six of the 59-60 ECF's against Boston, in a 119-117 loss. Wilt had a 26-24 game, on 8-18 shooting, while Russell had a 25-25 game, and on 11-26 shooting.
4. Game three of a best-of-five series in the first round of the 60-61 playoffs , and against Syracuse, in a 106-103 loss. Chamberlain with 33 points, while his opposing center, the 7-3 Swede Halbrook, scored 6 points.
5. Game five of a best-of-five series in the first round of the 61-62 playoffs, against Syracuse, in a 121-104 win. Chamberlain had 56 points, on 22-48 shooting, with 35 rebounds. Kerr had 20 points in the loss.
6. Game six of the 61-62 ECF's, and against Boston, in a 109-99 win. Wilt with 32 points and 21 rebounds. Russell had 19 points and 22 rebounds in the loss.
7. Game seven of the 61-62 ECF's, against Boston, in a 109-107 loss. Wilt with 22 points, on 7-15 shooting, with 21 rebounds. Russell had 19 points, on 7-14 shooting, with 22 rebounds in the win.
8. Game seven of the 63-64 WCF's, and against St. Louis, in a 105-95 win. Wilt with 39 points, 26 rebounds, and 10 blocks. His opposing center, Zelmo Beaty, who would go on to become a multiple all-star, had 10 points in the loss.
9. Game five of the 63-64 Finals, and against Boston, in a 105-99 loss. Chamberlain with 30 points and 27 rebounds, on 12-28 shooting. Russell had 14 points and 26 points, on 5-11 shooting in the win.
10. Game four of a best-of-five series in the 64-65 first round of the playoffs against Cincinnati, a 119-112 win. Chamberlain with 38 points. His opposing center, multiple all-star (and HOFer) Wayne Embry had 7 points in the loss.
11. Game six of the 64-65 ECF's, against Boston, a 112-106 win. Chamberlain with a 30-26 game, on 13-23 shooting. Russell with a 22-21 game, on 8-19 shooting, in the loss.
12. Game seven of the 64-65 ECF's, and against Boston, a 110-109 loss. Wilt with 30 points, on 12-15 shooting, with 32 rebounds. Russell had 15 points, on 7-16 shooting, with 29 rebounds in the win.
13. Game five of a best-of-seven series, in the 65-66 ECF's, and against Boston, in a 120-112 loss. Wilt had 46 points, on 19-34 shooting, with 34 rebounds. Russell had 18 points and 31 rebounds in the win.
14. Game four of a best-of-five series, in the first round of the 66-67 playoffs, and against Cincinnati, a 112-94 win. Wilt with 18 points, on 7-14 shooting, with 27 rebounds and 9 assists. His opposing center, Connie Dierking, had 8 points, on 4-14 shooting, with 4 rebounds in the loss.
15. Game five of the 66-67 ECF's, and against Boston, in a 140-116 win. Chamberlain with 29 points, on 10-16 shooting, with 36 rebounds, 13 assists, and 7 blocks. Russell had 4 points, on 2-5 shooting, with 21 rebounds, and 7 assists in the loss.
16. Game six of the 66-67 Finals, and against San Francisco, in a 125-122 win. Chamberlain with 24 points, on 8-13 shooting, with 23 rebounds. His oppsoing center, HOFer Nate Thurmond, had 12 points, on 4-13 shooting, with 22 rebounds in the loss.
17. Game six of the first round of the 67-68 playoffs, against NY, in a 113-97 win. Wilt had 25 points, and 27 rebounds. His opposing center, HOFer Walt Bellamy, had 19 points in the loss.
18. Game seven of the 67-68 ECF's, against Boston, in a 100-96 loss. Wilt with 14 points, on 4-9 shooting, with 34 rebounds. Russell had 12 points and 26 rebounds, on 4-6 shooting, in the win.
19. Game six of the first round of the 68-69 playoffs, against San Francisco, in a 118-78 win. Wilt with 11 points on 5/9 FG, 25 rebounds and 1 assist. Thurmond had 8 points in the loss.
20. Game four of the 68-69 WCF's, against Atlanta, in a 133-114 sweeping win. Chamberlain with 16 points on 5/11 FG, 29 rebounds and 10 blocks. His opposing center, Zelmo Beaty had 30 points in the loss.
21. Game seven of the 68-69 Finals, against Boston, in a 108-106 loss. Chamberlain had 18 points, on 7-8 shooting, with 27 rebounds. Russell had 6 points, on 2-7 shooting, with 21 rebounds in the win.
22. Game five of a best-of-seven series (the Lakers were down 3-1 going into the game) in the first round of the 69-70 playoffs, and against Phoenix, a 138-121 win. Wilt with 36 points on 12/20 FG 14 rebounds and 3 assists. His opposing center, Neal Walk, had 18 points in the loss.
23. Game six of the first round of the 69-70 playoffs, against Phoenix, in a 104-93 win. Wilt with 12 points on 4/11 FG, 26 rebounds, 11 assists and 12 blocks (unofficial quad). Jim Fox started that game for Phoenix, and had 13 points in the loss.
24. Game seven of the first round of the 69-70 playoffs, against Phoenix, and in a 129-94 win, which capped a 4-3 series win after falling behind 3-1 in the series. Wilt with 30 points on 11/18 FG, 27 rebounds, 6 assists and 11 blocks. Fox had 7 points in the loss.
25. Game four of the 69-70 WCF's, against Atlanta, in a 133-114 sweeping win. Wilt with 11 points on 5/10 FG, 21 rebounds and 10 blocks. Bellamy had 19 points in the loss.
26. Game six of the 69-70 Finals, against NY, in a 135-113 win. Wilt with 45 points, on 20-27 shooting, with 27 rebounds. Nate Bowman had 18 points, on 9-15 shooting, with 8 rebounds in the loss.
27. Game seven of the 69-70 Finals, against NY, in a 113-99 loss. Wilt with 21 points, on 10-16 shooting, with 24 rebounds. HOFer Willis Reed had 4 points, on 2-5 shooting, with 3 rebounds in the win.
28. Game seven of the first round of the 70-71 playoffs, against Chicago, in a 109-98 win. Wilt with 25 points on 7/12 FG,18 rebounds and 9 assists. 7-0 Tom Boerwinkle had 4 points for the Bulls in the loss.
29. Game five of the 70-71 WCF's, against Milwaukee, in a 116-94 loss. Wilt had 23 points, on 10-21 shooting, with 12 rebounds, 6 blocks (5 of them on Alcindor/Kareem.) Kareem had 20 points, on 7-23 shooting, with 15 rebounds, and 3 blocks in the win. Incidently, Wilt received a standing ovation when he left the game late...and the game was played in Milwaukee.
30. Game four of the 71-72 first round of the playoffs, against Chicago, in a 108-97 sweeping win. Wilt had 8 points on 4/6, 31 rebounds and 8 assists. Clifford Ray had 20 points in the loss.
31. Game six of the 71-72 WCF's, against Milwaukee, in a 104-100 win. Chamberlain with 20 points, on 8-12 shooting, with 24 rebounds, and 9 blocks (six against Kareem.) Kareem had 37 points, on 16-37 shooting, with 25 rebounds in the loss.
32. Game five of the 71-72 Finals, against NY, in a 114-100 win. Chamberlain with 24 points, on 10-14 shooting, with 29 rebounds, and 9 blocks. HOFer Jerry Lucas had 14 points, on 5-14 shooting, with 9 rebounds in the loss.
33. Game seven of the first round of the 72-73 playoffs, against Chicago, in a 95-92 win. Wilt with 21 points on 10/17 FG, 28 rebounds, 4 asissts and 8 blocks. His opposing center, Clifford Ray, had 4 points.
The article about this series sad that Wilt blocked Chicago from playoffs after blocking 49 shots in 7 games.
34. Game five of the 72-73 WCF's, and against Golden St., in a 128-118 win. Wilt with 5 points on 2/2 FG, 22 rebounds, 7 assists. Thurmond had 9 points on 2/9 FG, 18 or 15 rebounds and 5 assists in 32 minutes in the loss.
35. Game five of the 72-73 Finals, against NY, in a 102-93 loss. Wilt with 23 points, on 9-16 shooting, with 21 rebounds. Willis Reed had 18 points, on 9-16 shooting, with 12 rebounds.
That was it. 35 "must-win" elimination and/or clinching post-season games.
[/QUOTE]
updated with '60s
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]updated with '60s[/QUOTE]
sweet :cheers: repped
I'll take a look and see what I can do tomorrow, but nice research so far
I'd recommend taking it back to the 54-55 season, before then there wasn't a shot clock, so any stats are completely useless...two possible extensions are first game 5's in 5 game series, and eventually all elimination games (the latter is prolly an insane amount of work, so game 5s and 7s in the shot clock era for stars would be huge)
EDIT: "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Deuce Bigalow again."
seems I'll have to wait on that, anyhow I'm out, peace guys
EDIT 2: jlauber - that's a substantial amount of research, maybe I'll add filling in the holes on that to my docket (complete elimination game records for all star players is prolly too much work, but for top 10 tier guys maybe it's worth a shot), good job
It's funny, every time Jlauber's confronted with the shortcomings of Wilt he always starts with the "it wasn't Wilt's fault, just look at his teammates.." and when that doesn't work he starts to spam about other all-time greats who failed in the same manner like that justifies anything..
[QUOTE=Trumpin]33 shots to get 37 points isn't a bowdown performance.[/QUOTE]
I don't understand this argument. 33 shots while shooting at 50 percent (considered by 99.9 percent of people to be good efficiency), assuming all 2 point shots, is 33 points. So getting 37 points with 33 shots is efficient.... isn't it?
[B]1984 Finals - Game 7[/B]
Larry Bird: 20 pts, 12 reb, 3 ast, 2 stl, 1 blk, 2 tov, 6-18 FG, 0-0 3 PT, 8-8 FT (W)
-5th leading scorer in the game
-3rd leading rebounder in the game
[B]2010 Finals - Game 7[/B]
Kobe Bryant: 23 pts, 15 reb, 2 ast, 1 stl, 0 blk, 4 tov, 6-24 FG, 0-6 3PT, 11-15 FT (W)
-leading scorer in the game
-2nd leading rebounder in the game
Both shot 6-18 from inside the 3pt line. Both of their teams won the game. Both won Finals MVP.
Very similar performances even though the game were much different. 2010 was a defensive struggle (score: 83-79), while 1984 was a fast paced run and gun game (score: 111-102).
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow][B]1984 Finals - Game 7[/B]
Larry Bird: 20 pts, 12 reb, 3 ast, 2 stl, 1 blk, 2 tov, 6-18 FG, 0-0 3 PT, 8-8 FT (W)
-5th leading scorer in the game
-3rd leading rebounder in the game
[B]2010 Finals - Game 7[/B]
Kobe Bryant: 23 pts, 15 reb, 2 ast, 1 stl, 0 blk, 4 tov, 6-24 FG, 0-6 3PT, 11-15 FT (W)
-leading scorer in the game
-2nd leading rebounder in the game
Both shot 6-18 from inside the 3pt line. Both of their teams won the game. Both won Finals MVP.
Very similar performances even though the game were much different. 2010 was a defensive struggle, while 1984 was a fast paced run and gun game.[/QUOTE]
people give Kobe way too much crap.
Everyones percentages drop in game 7 to be fair.
But hold on just a minute I need to find something.
[QUOTE=riseagainst]people give Kobe way too much crap.[/QUOTE]
Modern players get way too much crap, Lebron/Kobe are both microanalysed to a ridiculous extent that most greats never had to deal with (though somehow Durant's managed to avoid a lot of that so far). Had Bird/Magic played in today's era, we would never stop hearing about some of their stinkers (such as Bird's 1984 game 7, Magic's 1981 game 3 vs. the Rockets and 1984 Tragic Johnson) just like we'll never stop hearing about Kobe's game 7s in 2006 and 2010, and Lebron's 2011 Finals. These guys have all had duds in huge games before.
[QUOTE=Rubio2Gasol]Everyones percentages drop in game 7 to be fair.
But hold on just a minute I need to find something.[/QUOTE]
Chamberlain "the Choker" shot .626 from the field in his nine game sevens.
1962 ECF's 7-15
1964 WCF's 19-29
1965 ECF's 12-15
1968 ECF's 4-9
1969 Finals 7-8
1970 1st round 11-18
1970 Finals 10-16
1971 1st Round 7-12
1973 1st Round 10-17
87-139 .626
Which is the highest game seven career FG% by any of the "all-time" greats.
Incidently, Chamberlain played in two game seven's in the Finals, and collectively shot 17-24 or .708 in those two game seven's (while grabbing 51 rebounds... 25.5 rpg.)
How about Kareem in his two game seven's of the Finals? 12-28 or .429
Hakeem? 10-25 or .400
Bird? 6-18 or .333
Kobe? 6-24 or .250
Duncan? 10-27 .370
[QUOTE=jlauber]Chamberlain "the Choker" shot .626 from the field in his nine game sevens.
1962 ECF's 7-15
1964 WCF's 19-29
1965 ECF's 12-15
1968 ECF's 4-9
1969 Finals 7-8
1970 1st round 11-18
1970 Finals 10-16
1971 1st Round 7-12
1973 1st Round 10-17
87-139 .626
Which is the highest game seven career FG% by any of the "all-time" greats.
Incidently, Chamberlain played in two game seven's in the Finals, and collectively shot 17-24 or .708 in those two game seven's (while grabbing 51 rebounds... 25.5 rpg.)
How about Kareem in his two game seven's of the Finals? 12-28 or .429
Hakeem? 10-25 or .400
Bird? 6-18 or .333
Kobe? 6-24 or .250
Duncan? 10-27 .370[/QUOTE]
Edit: Sorry. made a mistake....
[QUOTE=jlauber]Chamberlain "the Choker" shot .626 from the field in his nine game sevens.
1962 ECF's 7-15
1964 WCF's 19-29
1965 ECF's 12-15
1968 ECF's 4-9
1969 Finals 7-8
1970 1st round 11-18
1970 Finals 10-16
1971 1st Round 7-12
1973 1st Round 10-17
87-139 .626
Which is the highest game seven career FG% by any of the "all-time" greats.
Incidently, Chamberlain played in two game seven's in the Finals, and collectively shot 17-24 or .708 in those two game seven's (while grabbing 51 rebounds... 25.5 rpg.)
How about Kareem in his two game seven's of the Finals? 12-28 or .429
Hakeem? 10-25 or .400
Bird? 6-18 or .333
Kobe? 6-24 or .250
Duncan? 10-27 .370[/QUOTE]
jlauber - check your PMs
[QUOTE=fpliii]jlauber - check your PMs[/QUOTE]
I responded.
[QUOTE=jlauber]Chamberlain "the Choker" shot .626 from the field in his nine game sevens.
1962 ECF's 7-15
1964 WCF's 19-29
1965 ECF's 12-15
1968 ECF's 4-9
1969 Finals 7-8
1970 1st round 11-18
1970 Finals 10-16
1971 1st Round 7-12
1973 1st Round 10-17
87-139 .626
Which is the highest game seven career FG% by any of the "all-time" greats.
Incidently, Chamberlain played in two game seven's in the Finals, and collectively shot 17-24 or .708 in those two game seven's (while grabbing 51 rebounds... 25.5 rpg.)
How about Kareem in his two game seven's of the Finals? 12-28 or .429
Hakeem? 10-25 or .400
Bird? 6-18 or .333
Kobe? 6-24 or .250
Duncan? 10-27 .370[/QUOTE]
...................................
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow][B]Wilt in Game 7s[/B]
'70 Finals, Game 7: 1-11
'69 Finals, Game 7: 4-13 ...[COLOR="Red"](2 point loss)[/COLOR]
'68 Div Finals, Game 7: 6-15 ...[COLOR="Red"](4 point loss)[/COLOR]
'65 Div Finals, Game 7: 6-13 ...[COLOR="Red"](1 point loss)[/COLOR]
'64 Div Semifinals, Game 7: 1-6
'62 Divisional Finals, Game 7: 8-9
Total: 26-67, [B]38.8%[/B]
[B]Wilt in the Finals[/B]
124-326, [B]38.0%[/B][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow][B]1973 NBA Finals[/B]
Lakers had HCA but lost the series in 5 games. Lakers lost by 4 points in Game 2 in which Wilt shot 1-9 from the freethrow line. Wilt put up 5 points in Game 3 which the Lakers lost by 4 points again. In the Game 5, Wilt shot 5-14 from the freethrow line. This capped off Wilt's 5th series loss with HCA to end his career.
Wilt's FT shooting for the series: 14-38 (36.8%)
[B]1970 NBA Finals[/B]
Another Game 7 loss for the Lakers. Wilt shot 1-10 from the freethrow in a Game 1 loss. In game 7, Wilt shot 11 freethrow attempts, only making 1.
Wilt's FT shooting for the series: 23-67 (34.3%)
Wilt's FT shooting in Game 7: 1-11 (9.1%)
[B]1969 NBA Finals[/B]
Lakers had HCA and were up 2-0 in the series and also 3-2 after Game 5. Lakers managed to lose the next 2 games including a 2 point loss in Game 7 in which Wilt missed 9 freethrows (4-13) while Jerry West put up 42-13-12 and won Finals MVP. Wilt shot 1-5 from the filed and missed 8 freethrows in a Game 6 loss and 1-5 from the field in game 2. Boston Celtic Sam Jones outscored Wilt Chamberlain in all 4 Game 7s.
Wilt's FT shooting for the series: 24-66 (36.4%)
Wilt's FT shooting in Game 7: 4-13 (30.8%)
[B]1968 Divisional Finals[/B]
Another HCA series loss for Wilt. Wilt shot 6-21 from the field and missed 15 freethrows in a Game 6 loss. In Game 7, Wilt made 4 field goals and missed 9 freethrows in a 4 point loss. Wilt was the 9th leading scorer and the 5th leading scorer on his own team in that game 7 with 14 points
Wilt's FT shooting for the series: 39-91 (42.9%)
Wilt FT shooting in Game 7: 6-15 (40.0%)
[B]1966 Divisional Finals[/B]
His Sixers lost to Boston in 5 games. In the elimination Game 5, Wilt missed 17 freethrows (8-25) in a 8 point loss.
Wilt's FT shooting for the series: 22-68 (41.2%)
[B]1965 Divisional Finals[/B]
Wilt shot 7-21 from the field in a Game 3 loss. The Sixers lost by 1 point in Game 7, Wilt missed 7 freethrows (6-13) in that game. Wilt was once again outscored by Sam Jones in a Game 7.
[B]1964 NBA Finals[/B]
His team lost the series in 5 games. Wilt shot 4-12 from the freethrow line in a Game 1 loss.
Wilt's FT shooting for the series: 22-48 (45.8%)
[B]1962 Divisional Finals[/B]
Coming off his 50.4 ppg season, his PPG in the Playoffs dropped down by 15 points. In Game 7, Wilt was the 4th leading scorer with 22 points in a loss.
Wilt's FT shooting for the series: 22-48 (45.8%)[/QUOTE]
Next
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]...................................
Next[/QUOTE]
Let's take a look at your boy Kobe then, shall we, in his biggest games at the end of his seasons...
Last game of his '98 season. His team loses in a sweeping loss, 96-92, in a game in which he scores SIX points. Geez, he couldn't even score a paltry five more points?
Last game of the '99 season. His Lakers are again SWEPT, losing game four 118-107, in a game in which he shoots 6-16, and scores 16 points. Had he hit just five more shots, well, they would have then lost in game five with another horrible shooting game by Kobe.
Last game of the '03 season. Wait, in the game before, a 96-94 loss, Kobe misses SIXTEEN shots from the field, and even goes 1-2 from the line. However, he saved the best for the last game of that series. In a [B]110-82 [/B]loss (which would be one of SEVERAL huge blowout losses in clinching games), Kobe goes 9-19 from the field.
Last game of the '04 season. His heavily favored Lakers fall behind 82-59 at the end of the third quarter, en route to a 100-87 loss, in a game in which Kobe shot 7-21 from the field, and an awful .[B]387 for the SERIES[/B].
Didn't make the playoffs in '05, playing for a 34-48 team.
Last game of the '06 season. In a season in which Kobe averaged 35.4 ppg, he scores 24 points in the [B]clinching game seven crushing loss, 121-90[/B]. Not only that, but he leads his team down the drain after taking a 3-1 series lead in that series.
Last game of the '07 season. In the clinching game five loss, Kobe goes 13-33, in a 9 point loss.
Last game of the '08 season. Well, let's begin with a classic loss in game four. Kobe shoots 6-19, in a game in which the Lakers lose by six points, after [B]blowing a 24 point third period lead[/B]. He tops that performance in the clinching game six, [B]131-92 loss[/B], he shoots 7-22 from the floor.
Last game in the '11 season. His FAVORED Lakers are SWEPT, in a humilating fashion, losing in yet ANOTHER clinching game blowout loss, [B]122-86[/B]. Kobe once again goes quietly like a lamb to slaughter with a 7-18 performance.
Last game of the '12 season. Kobe FINALLY has a [B]"[COLOR="DarkRed"]Wilt-like[/COLOR]" game, scoring 42 points, on 18-33 shooting,[/B] but alas, and much like Chamberlain had to deal with nearly his entire post-season career, Kobe's teammates completely crumble, and the Lakers are pounded in yet another series clinching loss, 116-90, in a five game series.
[QUOTE=jlauber]Let's take a look at your boy Kobe then, shall we, in his biggest games at the end of his seasons...
Last game of his '98 season. His team loses in a sweeping loss, 96-92, in a game in which he scores SIX points. Geez, he couldn't even score a paltry five more points?
[/quote]
19 years old and was not a starter yet
[QUOTE]Last game of the '99 season. His Lakers are again SWEPT, losing game four 118-107, in a game in which he shoots 6-16, and scores 16 points. Had he hit just five more shots, well, they would have then lost in game five with another horrible shooting game by Kobe.[/QUOTE]
Bad game from him
[QUOTE]Last game of the '03 season. Wait, in the game before, a 96-94 loss, Kobe misses SIXTEEN shots from the field, and even goes 1-2 from the line. However, he saved the best for the last game of that series. In a [B]110-82 [/B]loss (which would be one of SEVERAL huge blowout losses in clinching games), Kobe goes 9-19 from the field.[/QUOTE]
He just helped the Lakers win back to back to back Championships. More championships than Wilt won in his entire career already at age 23.
Go back and watch that Game 5, he led the comeback by dominating the 4th quarter and on the last possession passed it to a open Horry who missed the potential GW. Great 4th Quarter and the right play at the end. Not choking.
[QUOTE]Last game of the '04 season. His heavily favored Lakers fall behind 82-59 at the end of the third quarter, en route to a 100-87 loss, in a game in which Kobe shot 7-21 from the field, and an awful .[B]387 for the SERIES[/B].[/QUOTE]
Yes it is known he was horrible that series.
[QUOTE]Didn't make the playoffs in '05, playing for a 34-48 team.[/QUOTE]
Wasn't his fault
[QUOTE]Last game of the '06 season. In a season in which Kobe averaged 35.4 ppg, he scores 24 points in the [B]clinching game seven crushing loss, 121-90[/B]. Not only that, but he leads his team down the drain after taking a 3-1 series lead in that series.[/QUOTE]
Had 21 points at halftime, yet team was down by 15. His team just wasn't good enough, don't even want to list that roster.
[QUOTE]Last game of the '07 season. In the clinching game five loss, Kobe goes 13-33, in a 9 point loss.[/QUOTE]
The only game they won in that series is when he dropped 45 points. Phoenix was clearly better than the 7th seeded Lakers. And maybe if it were not for the suspensions, The Suns win it all that year.
[QUOTE]Last game of the '08 season. Well, let's begin with a classic loss in game four. Kobe shoots 6-19, in a game in which the Lakers lose by six points, after [B]blowing a 24 point third period lead[/B].[/QUOTE] One of the rare Kobe chokes in his career.
[QUOTE]He tops that performance in the clinching game six, [B]131-92 loss[/B], he shoots 7-22 from the floor.[/QUOTE]
Game wasn't even close from the start, stats don't even matter in that game.
[QUOTE]Last game in the '11 season. His FAVORED Lakers are SWEPT, in a humilating fashion, losing in yet ANOTHER clinching game blowout loss, [B]122-86[/B]. Kobe once again goes quietly like a lamb to slaughter with a 7-18 performance.[/QUOTE]
Go back and watch that game, I remember that well. I believe that Kobe had more made FGs than the rest of his team combined at hafltime, his team was down by atleast 18. Did I forget to mention that he just led his team to back to back championships, you know as much as Wilt did his entire career.
[quote]Last game of the '12 season. Kobe FINALLY has a [B]"[COLOR="DarkRed"]Wilt-like[/COLOR]" game, scoring 42 points, on 18-33 shooting,[/B] but alas, and much like Chamberlain had to deal with nearly his entire post-season career, Kobe's teammates completely crumble, and the Lakers are pounded in yet another series clinching loss, 116-90, in a five game series.[/QUOTE]
Wilt did not perform like that in Game 7s. Don't kid yourself. 9+ missed freethrows in a 1-2 point loss or scoring less than half your regular season PPG average is more like Wilt-like.
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]19 years old and was not a starter yet
Bad game from him
He just helped the Lakers win back to back to back Championships. More championships than Wilt won in his entire career already at age 23.
Go back and watch that Game 5, he led the comeback by dominating the 4th quarter and on the last possession passed it to a open Horry who missed the potential GW. Great 4th Quarter and the right play at the end. Not choking.
Yes it is known he was horrible that series.
Wasn't his fault
Had 21 points at halftime, yet team was down by 15. His team just wasn't good enough, don't even want to list that roster.
The only game they won in that series is when he dropped 45 points. Phoenix was clearly better than the 7th seeded Lakers. And maybe if it were not for the suspensions, The Suns win it all that year.
One of the rare Kobe chokes in his career.
Game wasn't even close from the start, stats don't even matter in that game.
Go back and watch that game, I remember that well. I believe that Kobe had more made FGs than the rest of his team combined at hafltime, his team was down by atleast 18. Did I forget to mention that he just led his team to back to back championships, you know as much as Wilt did his entire career.
Wilt did not perform like that in Game 7s. Don't kid yourself. 9+ missed freethrows in a 1-2 point loss or scoring less than half your regular season PPG average is more like Wilt-like.[/QUOTE]
Excuse-after-excuse. But NEVER any for Wilt, though, right?
Chamberlain takes crappy rosters and/or good rosters that play crappy in the post-season, to 12 Conference Finals, and to six Finals, and plays brilliantly in nearly all of them, and his team's lose four game seven's by a total of nine points.
As proven above, Kobe plays like sh!t in the vast majority of his last playoff games, and most all of which are blowout losses.
And even in his game seven wins he shot like a blindman in a wind-tunnel. In Game seven of the 2000 WCF's, he shot 9-19. In game seven of the 2002 WCF's, he shot 10-26. And we all know he shot 6-24 in game seven of the 2010 Finals.
As for Wilt. No game seven's of 40+, but a game five, in a best-of-five series, of 56 points and 35 rebounds. And a game three, in a best-of-three series, of 53 points and 22 rebounds. He also had a "must-win" game six in the 60 ECF's of 50 points and 35 rebounds(against Russell, no less); a game seven in the '65 ECF's of 30 points, 32 rebounds, and on 12-15 shooting; a "must-win" game five in the '66 ECF's (against Russell) of 46 points and 34 rebounds. And a "must-win" game six of the '70 Finals (and on one leg), of 45 points, on 20-27 shooting, with 27 rebounds.
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]I'm slowly adding them all, don't worry. :cheers:[/QUOTE]
I now see you are all doing ALL game 7 performances, not just great game 7 performances. I misunderstood what you were asking for.
That's why I was wondering about this one.
[QUOTE]Originally Posted by Deuce Bigalow
1992 Eastern Conference Semifinals - Game 7
Larry Bird: 12 pts, 5 reb, 4 ast, 0 stl, 0 blk, 2 tov, 6-9 FG, 0-0 3PT, 0-0 FT (L)[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=jlauber]Excuse-after-excuse. But NEVER any for Wilt, though, right?
Chamberlain takes crappy rosters and/or good rosters that play crappy in the post-season, to 12 Conference Finals, and to six Finals, and plays brilliantly in nearly all of them, and his team's lose four game seven's by a total of nine points.
As proven above, Kobe plays like sh!t in the vast majority of his last playoff games, and most all of which are blowout losses.
And even in his game seven wins he shot like a blindman in a wind-tunnel. In Game seven of the 2000 WCF's, he shot 9-19. In game seven of the 2002 WCF's, he shot 10-26. And we all know he shot 6-24 in game seven of the 2010 Finals.
As for Wilt. No game seven's of 40+, but a game five, in a best-of-five series, of 56 points and 35 rebounds. And a game three, in a best-of-three series, of 53 points and 22 rebounds. He also had a "must-win" game six in the 60 ECF's of 50 points and 35 rebounds(against Russell, no less); a game seven in the '65 ECF's of 30 points, 32 rebounds, and on 12-15 shooting; a "must-win" game five in the '66 ECF's (against Russell) of 46 points and 34 rebounds. And a "must-win" game six of the '70 Finals (and on one leg), of 45 points, on 20-27 shooting, with 27 rebounds.[/QUOTE]
9-19 FG is shit? WTF? You do know that Kobe is a shooting guard that takes mostly perimeter shots?
Kobe scored or assisted on the Lakers last 8 points, getting the win while putting up 25-11-7-4 blk, leading his team in all 4 of those categories
In 2002 WCF Game 7 Kobe may have shot 10-26 but he still had 30-10-7 with 0 turnovers
In 2010 Finals Game 7 Kobe still had the most points in the game and 15 rebounds, while scoring 10 points in the 4th quarter (most in the game)
And I did not list excuses. How can you blame a loss on a bench player (19 yr old Kobe in '98)?
Why are you so clueless about basketball?
Anyways I stand by on what I believe, that if Wilt doesn't miss 9+ FTs in some of those 1-2 pt losses, he would have won more.
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]9-19 FG is shit? WTF? You do know that Kobe is a shooting guard that takes mostly perimeter shots?
Kobe scored or assisted on the Lakers last 8 points, getting the win while putting up 25-11-7-4 blk, leading his team in all 4 of those categories
In 2002 WCF Game 7 Kobe may have shot 10-26 but he still had 30-10-7 with 0 turnovers
In 2010 Finals Game 7 Kobe still had the most points in the game and 15 rebounds, while scoring 10 points in the 4th quarter (most in the game)
And I did not list excuses. How can you blame a loss on a bench player (19 yr old Kobe in '98)?
Why are you so clueless about basketball?
Anyways I stand by on what I believe, that if Wilt doesn't miss 9+ FTs in some of those 1-2 pt losses, he would have won more.[/QUOTE]
Do you rank Kobe higher than Wilt??
[QUOTE=oolalaa]Do you rank Kobe higher than Wilt??[/QUOTE]
Yes. Kobe has had the better career imo
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]9-19 FG is shit? WTF? You do know that Kobe is a shooting guard that takes mostly perimeter shots?
Kobe scored or assisted on the Lakers last 8 points, getting the win while putting up 25-11-7-4 blk, leading his team in all 4 of those categories
In 2002 WCF Game 7 Kobe may have shot 10-26 but he still had 30-10-7 with 0 turnovers
In 2010 Finals Game 7 Kobe still had the most points in the game and 15 rebounds, while scoring 10 points in the 4th quarter (most in the game)
And I did not list excuses. How can you blame a loss on a bench player (19 yr old Kobe in '98)?
Why are you so clueless about basketball?
Anyways I stand by on what I believe, that if Wilt doesn't miss 9+ FTs in some of those 1-2 pt losses, he would have won more.[/QUOTE]
Because to him it's ALL about statistics down to absolute pin-point percentages and without a morsel of context. He's one of the most ridiculous posters or fans I've ever seen, and seems to hold an extreme agenda against Bird, Kareem and Olajuwon -- and basically anybody being compared to Wilt Chamberlain.
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]Yes. Kobe has had the better career imo[/QUOTE]
Not sure how you worked that one out. Kobe has a lot less MVPs, the same number of Finals MVPs and around the same number of All-NBA teams. Their team success was pretty similar, but Wilt did anchor what some people call the greatest team of all time.
In terms of sheer IMPACT and DOMINATION on a game, Kobe pales in comparison. Wilt was arguably the best rebounder in history, his defensive value was LIGHT YEARS ahead of Kobe's, his facilitating/passing in his prime ('64 - '68) was as good, if not better, than anything Kobe has offered up. In terms of scoring, it's a little confusing. Wilt definitely COULD have been a better scorer than Kobe but his obsession with playing just like Russell (From '67 onwards) cost him several high scoring seasons. Still, Wilt's all round impact trumps Kobe's extra points.
Also, I've always thought that Kobe is the most OVERRATED 'clutch' performer in NBA history, so if Kobe's 'clutchness' and Wilt's 'unclutchness' is the reason for your rankings then I think you sorely mistaken.
Yes, Wilt's '68-'70 stretch did bring him back to the pack, in my opinion. That was his chance to seal his status as the greatest player of all time, to become even better than Russell. He had SEVERAL chances to win at least 2 rings, but came up short in BIG situations.
But Kobe has STINK BOMBED several times, too (Most notably the '04 & '08 Finals). His 4th quarter shooting in the '09 and '10 Finals was really poor, as well.