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[QUOTE=chips93]career TS%:
Bron: 56.9
Bird: 56.4
and lebron has only gotten more efficent as his career has gone on, so that number is likely to go up
Career turnover percentage:
Bron: 12.1
Bird: 12.7
Assist Percentage:
Bron: 34.1
Bird: 24.7
Career Rebounding Percentage:
Bron: 10.5
Bird: 14.5
so lebron is more efficeint, not by a lot, but he is more efficeint
while bird is the better rebounder[/QUOTE]
shouldn't you compare primes/peaks when comparing players? :confusedshrug:
[QUOTE=riseagainst]shouldn't you compare primes/peaks when comparing players? :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
if you wanna go ahead and do all that math, be my guest
:cheers:
[QUOTE=BruceLeeBowen]until he's 31, will you ish poster consider him better than Bird? Best SF of all time?
Imo right now it can already be argued, The only thing thats keeping him from getting that title are accolades.[/QUOTE]
I think he will get better so in five years and he maintains his health it will be hard not to pass Bird. Every year he gets more efficient and adds to his game in some measure. This year will be the first year he will be playing without a lot of pressure in like 4 years. So his confidence and relaxation should be a lot better. While he did have a couple of melt downs in the playoffs his playoff play will likely be far above any perimeter player's (not named MJ) when he's 31 yo. He's had great playoff play, nobody in the history of the game has scored the last 26 points in a win on a great defensive team in the playoffs.
Bleecher Report says the only player in league history to have registered a line of 30-9-5 with 50 percent shooting or better over the course of a postseason run...and he's now done it twice. He also has a 45 points, 15 rebounds and five assists on 73.1 percent shooting in an ECF. So his playoff successes will be quite interesting in five years. Now that Lebron knows that he can post up its hard to guess how that will open up in his game. It is very possible that Lebron will win a DPOY award as well. Lebron is the most versatile player the game ever had. His judgement on the court is superior to any big time scorer in the history of the game as well.
In seven years, Durant's playoff and regular season numbers will be insane and favorably distinguishable from Kobe's and Bird's. In seven years there is a real possibility of a shakeup in the GOAT list for perimeter players.
[QUOTE=chips93]career TS%:
Bron: 56.9
Bird: 56.4
and lebron has only gotten more efficent as his career has gone on, so that number is likely to go up
Career turnover percentage:
Bron: 12.1
Bird: 12.7
Assist Percentage:
Bron: 34.1
Bird: 24.7
Career Rebounding Percentage:
Bron: 10.5
Bird: 14.5
so lebron is more efficeint, not by a lot, but he is more efficeint
while bird is the better rebounder[/QUOTE]
#rape
[QUOTE=riseagainst]:no: bird shits on Lebron on efficiency. and bird's better at passing.[/QUOTE]
Bird played in an era where efficiency stats were high for all players therefore he has inflated shooting stats just like every other player from that time period. If you don't believe me look at the league averages (FG%) from the time Bird played compared to now the difference is generally 2-3 % higher than now. I attribute this to improved defense, and the average player being better than the average player of that time.
Edit: I forgot about the passing bit. Bird played in an era where he had more posessions to get assists, and yet LeBron has a season of more assists than Bird was able to get. Not to mention that LeBron will likely be near 10,000 assists when he retires, nearly twice Bird's total...
[QUOTE=2LeTTeRS]I don't think its possible for him to have a better peak than Bird's. The only basis he has to be better than Bird is to have health stay on his side and have a longer prime.[/QUOTE]
KD, great post.
LeBron has not been near Bird's peak. Bird averaged 50-40-90 in his prime, to go with 23-28ppg, 10rpg, 6-7 apg.
LeBron isn't touching that. Then add the championships.
[QUOTE=Raz]KD, great post.
LeBron has not been near Bird's peak. Bird averaged 50-40-90 in his prime, to go with 23-28ppg, 10rpg, 6-7 apg.
LeBron isn't touching that. Then add the championships.[/QUOTE]
LeBron's 30p/7r/9a season was better than anything Bird could dream of...
In no way is Lebron better than bird, first of all bird didnt have to leave a +65 win team that was constantly in the semis, ecf, and a finals appearance to team up with two other allstars, he was constantly choking it up.
So as soon as he teams up with wade and bosh, heat make the finals and Lebron wets the bed.
But yes next season he has a good year and wins his first title and fmvp
So all of a sudden people say hes better than bird?
Everybody is just a prisoner of the moment. Even if he was to win the title this year he still wouldnt compare to.bird.
What was the Cavs record after Lebron left?
Lol idiots. LeBron is better than bird
LeBron needs to prove he's a winner to be above Bird, so far he's proven he can fill up a stat sheet but can't win without 2 top 15 players. His free throw shooting is mediocre, and all of his shooting numbers are lackluster.
No doubt he's one of the best individual talents in NBA history, but he'll never be an all-time great champion.
[QUOTE=SilkkTheShocker]What was the Cavs record after Lebron left?[/QUOTE]
worst argument of all time, retard.
[QUOTE=coin24][B]Hes had one decent season [/B]and a ton of embarassing letdowns and chokejobs. Better than Bird? :facepalm[/QUOTE]
This is why I left here to go to RealGM.
One decent season???
He has three of the top 10 PER seasons EVER. Which two were < decent? He has had 5 of the top 50 PER seasons. Bird? ZERO.
[QUOTE=HurricaneKid]This is why I left here to go to RealGM.
One decent season???
He has three of the top 10 PER seasons EVER. Which two were < decent? He has had 5 of the top 50 PER seasons. Bird? ZERO.[/QUOTE]
What's PER? don't look it up
[QUOTE=HurricaneKid]This is why I left here to go to RealGM.
One decent season???
He has three of the top 10 PER seasons EVER. Which two were < decent? He has had 5 of the top 50 PER seasons. Bird? ZERO.[/QUOTE]
Please do yourself a favor and go back to realgm then...
[QUOTE=ripthekik]worst argument of all time, retard.[/QUOTE]
19 wins.
[QUOTE=HurricaneKid]This is why I left here to go to RealGM.
One decent season???
He has three of the top 10 PER seasons EVER. Which two were < decent? He has had 5 of the top 50 PER seasons. Bird? ZERO.[/QUOTE]
This. Coin24 is a terrible poster and a cross eyed retard. LBJ will have the same numbers of Finals MVP as Bird next season.
[QUOTE=SilkkTheShocker]19 wins.[/QUOTE]
lost their coach, center, star was injured, it was a whole diff team.
what happened to lebron that year in the finals btw, when he finally got the help you guys cried he never had?:confusedshrug:
[QUOTE=SilkkTheShocker]19 wins.[/QUOTE]
You forget that cleveland was tanking so they can rebuild
Damn your posts get stupider and stupider kid
His peak is NOT better than Bird's. Geez... :oldlol:
[QUOTE=SilkkTheShocker]19 wins.[/QUOTE]
if Cleveland was a winning team then LEbron would've went to another terrible record team and make them a contender. That's the point of the draft, it's to help out sh*tty teams getting good picks/good players so they can become contenders. Not every 1st pick is a Kwame Brown... :facepalm:
19 wins and the 2nd worst record in the NBA. Thats what happened because of Lebron leaving.
[QUOTE=Sleu27]Please do yourself a favor and go back to realgm then...[/QUOTE]
Oh, I do. I pop in here once a month or so to see the inmates running the asylum, chuckle a few times and sign off for a while.
Are you in agreement that LeBron has had "one decent season"?
It's possible. I don't see many rational posts in this thread. It's either HELL NO or FOSHO.
He needs to win more.
I think Birds impact is not measured by stats as well as LeBron's is. Bird did a lot more intangible stuff.
I think if LeBron and Bird went head 2 head that Bird would outplay him. You also have to mention Pippen or are we already putting Bron over Pippen?
-Smak
[QUOTE=ILLsmak]It's possible. I don't see many rational posts in this thread. It's either HELL NO or FOSHO.
He needs to win more.
I think Birds impact is not measured by stats as well as LeBron's is. Bird did a lot more intangible stuff.
I think if LeBron and Bird went head 2 head that Bird would outplay him. You also have to mention Pippen or are we already putting Bron over Pippen?
-Smak[/QUOTE]
LeBron is far ahead of Pippen lol, and has been for oh I don't know 4 years or so. Defensively LeBron is the only player at the SF position close to Pippen other than Artest, and offensively he is far better than both.
[QUOTE=lilgodfather1]LeBron is far ahead of Pippen lol, and has been for oh I don't know 4 years or so. [B]Defensively LeBron is the only player at the SF position close to Pippen other than Artest, and offensively he is far better than both.[/B][/QUOTE]
Michael Cooper, Bobby Jones.
Oh but wait. Basketball started in 1990, right?
[QUOTE=ILLsmak]You also have to mention Pippen or are we already putting Bron over Pippen?
[/QUOTE]
There is nothing that Pippen has over Lebron except being able to defend guards and SFs slightly better.
Bird's first real big year happened at 28 years old (this was the first time he averaged over 25ppg and he was 27 years old before he averaged over 22ppg in the playoffs - Lebron only averaged under 25ppg once in a playoff run, and is close to 30ppg outside of that year - amazing when you consider that Bird major strength on Lebron is that Bird's a scorer). Lebron isn't 28 yet. If Lebron's first big year is ahead of him its going to be crazy - if it had Birds progression it would be something like 34ppg 9rebs and 10 asst - which would just flat out be the most impressive year by any modern player.
Bird had three super regular seasons and four super prolific playoff runs. Lebron has already had seven super regular seasons and five super prolific playoff runs. Lebron will likely pass Bird in total points next year despite not being a scorer.
In the championship run, Lebron just found a whole new dimension to his game and he was already the game's most versatile player without anybody on his level. Bird has the edge right now primarily because of his impact on the total game has been legendary. But as a player Lebron only has a handful of people in front of him.
When Lebron has a clear case above Bird, or as the greatest SF, he has a clear case over Jordan. It just isn't going to happen in all likelihood. If it does happen, then you are talking about the GOAT. Between the likes of Bird, Jordan, Magic, etc, there is hair's width and you can argue who is better than who. Even those guys aren't clearly better than each other. So if Lebron even enters that discussion he'll have done amazingly well.
As for now, I think Bird was a better shooter, passer, rebounder whereas Lebron is slightly better scorer and a better defender. I don't think Lebron is ever going to get to the level of Bird's fundamentals but if he can get the aggregates/volume, back that up with championships, then he'll be right alongside him.
[QUOTE=Pointguard]Bird's first real big year...[/QUOTE]
Was his first year, when he was about 23; turning around the Celtics from the 2nd worst team to the best record in the league; and coming 4th in MVP voting IIRC; making All-NBA first team and Rookie team.
And your point is ridiculous; by what measure is Bird a scorer and Lebron isn't?
Comparing LeBron's peak to Bird? :facepalm . LeBron's great and all, but peak Bird did everything on offense incredibly. Only thing LeBron gets the edge on is defense. Bird wasn't the best at that.
[QUOTE=Pointguard]Bird's first real big year happened at 28 years old (this was the first time he averaged over 25ppg and he was 27 years old before he averaged over 22ppg in the playoffs - Lebron only averaged under 25ppg once in a playoff run, and is close to 30ppg outside of that year - amazing when you consider that Bird major strength on Lebron is that Bird's a scorer). Lebron isn't 28 yet. If Lebron's first big year is ahead of him its going to be crazy - if it had Birds progression it would be something like 34ppg 9rebs and 10 asst - which would just flat out be the most impressive year by any modern player.
Bird had three super regular seasons and four super prolific playoff runs. Lebron has already had seven super regular seasons and five super prolific playoff runs. Lebron will likely pass Bird in total points next year despite not being a scorer.
[B]In the championship run, Lebron just found a whole new dimension to his game and he was already the game's most versatile player without anybody on his level.[/B] Bird has the edge right now primarily because of his impact on the total game has been legendary. But as a player Lebron only has a handful of people in front of him.[/QUOTE]
A whole new dimension? He barreled in for layups, Okc made no adjustments..
Not sure what series you were watching:confusedshrug:
Not hating on bron, it's great that he finally won something, but ppl claiming he's now great in the post/clutch are kidding themselves..
Lebron d!ckriders errr I mean fans are a funny bunch. First they say championships don't matter because they're a team accomplishment, now they say Lebron needs 1 more championship and he'll be greater than Bird :oldlol: Please Bird was an absolute killer that smacked around some of the greatest players to ever play the game. Lebron got the best of Danny Granger and an injured Knicks squad.
No.
He could've, if he accomplishes the same and had stayed with the Cavs.
Da Fuq did i just read?:biggums:
[QUOTE=pauk]Individual talent/[B]skill/domination/production/stats[/B] wise Lebron has been better than any SF in NBA history, since a long while ago....... only thing Bird could do significantly better was shoot, Lebron does everything else better with the most significant part being defense..... Bird has a more accomplished career tho, hence the higher place on the rankings....[/QUOTE]
Young Buck let me teach you something. Bird is ONE of the Elitist player who has the TOP notch instinct and feel for the game.
GTFO with ur stat Geek crap. Even on paper Bird was no joke especially when he does not dominate the ball much as LeBron.
Bird also has the competitiveness LeBron cannot even touch.
Bird can only shoot better then LeBron ? LOL
Young Buck :facepalm
[QUOTE=Pointguard]Bird's first real big year happened at 28 years old (this was the first time he averaged over 25ppg and he was 27 years old before he averaged over 22ppg in the playoffs - Lebron only averaged under 25ppg once in a playoff run, and is close to 30ppg outside of that year - amazing when you consider that Bird major strength on Lebron is that Bird's a scorer). Lebron isn't 28 yet. If Lebron's first big year is ahead of him its going to be crazy - if it had Birds progression it would be something like 34ppg 9rebs and 10 asst - which would just flat out be the most impressive year by any modern player.
Bird had three super regular seasons and four super prolific playoff runs. Lebron has already had seven super regular seasons and [B]five super prolific playoff runs.[/B] Lebron will likely pass Bird in total points next year despite not being a scorer.
In the championship run, Lebron just found a whole new dimension to his game and he was already the game's most versatile player without anybody on his level. Bird has the edge right now primarily because of his impact on the total game has been legendary. But as a player Lebron only has a handful of people in front of him.[/QUOTE]
I would only say two 2012 and 2009 but it depends on what you mean by super prolific
[QUOTE=lilgodfather1]LeBron's 30p/7r/9a season was better than anything Bird could dream of...[/QUOTE]
Bird's 28/9/8 on 53% FG/61% TS while dominating the ball FAR less than Lebron says otherwise.
Lebron's peak is already better than Bird's. People tend to overrated old players like crazy :oldlol:
[QUOTE=OldSchoolBBall]Bird's 28/9/8 on 53% FG/61% TS [B]while dominating the ball FAR less [/B]than Lebron says otherwise.[/QUOTE]
Key point here, and roughly makes up for the possession argument. FGA's are also FGA's last time I checked. What's funny too is that the Celtics actually played at a pace that registered in the bottom half of the league throughout Bird's peak (84-88).
Also, where are all of the 50/40/90 seasons on 25+ PPG (Bird's volume was actually 28 and 30 respectively) in this super-easy shooting era? Far as I know, he's the only player to have a season such as that in NBA history. Twice, in consecutive years no less. Over his peak span (roughly five seasons or 390 games) he held down 27/10/7 on 50/40/90.
Then there's the actual skill sets and abilities to be measured.