Ali man, easy question.
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Ali man, easy question.
For those of you saying Mike was in his prime when he lost to Douglas, that's really not anywhere near the truth. He very clearly was not.
[QUOTE=Carbine]For those of you saying Mike was in his prime when he lost to Douglas, that's really not anywhere near the truth. He very clearly was not.[/QUOTE]
I swear Tyson's 'prime' gets shorter and shorter every time he's discussed here. Pretty soon it'll be revealed that his prime was one glorious summer in 1985 when Cus was still alive, Rooney was still in his corner, he hadn't raped anyone recently, the stars were aligned in his birth sign, etc. :lol
Ali hands down. Too long, too quick, too much heart and most of all too smart. Tyson never beat anyone good in his whole career. Beating Frank Bruno and an old, scared Michael Spinks does not impress me. Holyfield and Lennox showed what Tyson lacked in composure and smarts. I'd bet everything i owned on Ali.
its clear Tyson had no discipline after he left Rooney. his RL went to shit too. it seemed to me like he tried way harder to act/look tougher without the behind the scenes work at that point. there is no way the latter Tyson against the big names was anything close to the early Tyson, and most people remember him for the latter years, like i said the ear biting, face tattooed crap.
[QUOTE=Godzuki]its clear Tyson had no discipline after he left Rooney. his RL went to shit too. it seemed to me like he tried way harder to act/look tougher without the behind the scenes work at that point. there is no way the latter Tyson against the big names was anything close to the early Tyson, and most people remember him for the latter years, like i said the ear biting, face tattooed crap.[/QUOTE]
A lot of things contributed to the fall of Mike Tyson. Leaving Rooney, Jim Jacobs dying, Robin Givens fiasco, Don King (self explanatory). He lost what made him great and basically became a head hunter looking to throw one punch at a time. He lost his Cus D'amato peek-a-boo style that made him a great technical boxer, he lost his defense too which was a huge part of his game. You couldn't hit a young Mike Tyson. He also lost his passion.
Before the Douglas fight Tyson hadn't fought in a year and needed to shed 30 pounds. And apparently he barely even trained and stayed up until 5 am partying the night before the fight. Yeah these things are his fault, but a focused and ready Iron Mike would have put Douglas to sleep early. And when he fought Holyfield the first time he looked like a shell of his former self. He looked slow and fat lol.
Someone needs to find the numerous threads/posts thoroughly debunking Tyson's so-called "all time greatness" and just call it a day after that. One of the most overrated athletes of all time.
[QUOTE=Godzuki]its clear Tyson had no discipline after he left Rooney. his RL went to shit too.[/QUOTE]
Wrong. People keep saying stuff like this. Rooney was not the only instrumental figure in Tyson life. Tyson had Cus and a team of people who took care of him. Jimmy Jacobs, Bill Clayton. Once Cus died, then Jimmy things went downhill because Don King snatched him up. And Mike got involved with ROBBING Givens another person that factored into his downward spiral. Rooney was a good trainer, but his influence outside of the ring was minimal.
Mike Tyson's best win was againts a past his prime Larry Holmes. Holmes had some solid wins after Tyson beat him.
ali with prep, tyson without.
yeah i've had too much of comic book matches
[QUOTE]Details: You learned discipline
[QUOTE=Heilige][url]http://grind365.com/sports/mike-tysons-details-interview/[/url][/QUOTE]
Wow, great interview thanks. Mike's gotta be like the realest guy ever. God bless him.
Mike even states in that interview above that Ali was the meanest fighter of all time.
He also says there is "no f*cking way that he could beat Ali in a fight:
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF17mkqyf44[/url]
Starts talking about Ali @ the 3:05 mark, Mike is on the brink of tearing up at one point.
And this is the best Ali video on Youtube imo, actually one of my favorite Youtube videos period:
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vnzofi_QltI[/url]
just randomly found that amazing tyson interview and the links. too bad rep is down-- you guys deserve it.
so, prime ali was 6'3"... cosell standing in for 5'11" iron mike.
[img]http://img.izismile.com/img/img6/20130924/1000/daily_gifdump_461_18.gif[/img]
[QUOTE=DonDadda59]Except Buster Douglas :oldlol:
Ali would beat him before they even got to the ring. Ali was a master at mind games and Tyson was a mental midget. Ali too tall, too skilled, too smart, too tough for Tyson. Mike never did well when he stepped up in class and wasn't harrassing tomato cans. Look what the massive underdog and way past it Holyfield did to him. It'd look a lot like Lewis-Tyson, at any point of Tyson's career.[/QUOTE]
mentally, he was already off his prime for the buster douglas fight. his mind was elsewhere.
Ali is better but Tyson is being seriously disrespected in some of these posts. Tyson made his opponents look like scrubs, which is why a lot of people think he fought scrubs. Razor Ruddock is a scrub? Berbick is a scrub? Spinks was old? He was 31 :coleman: I'm talking about 1986 Tyson. Not 2002 when he trained for 2 days to fight Lewis for cocaine money :roll:
Ali had a lot mentally on his plate as well during some
Of his fights. And you know what? He didn't get knocked out.
[QUOTE=lefthook00]Mike even states in that interview above that Ali was the meanest fighter of all time.
He also says there is "no f*cking way that he could beat Ali in a fight:
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF17mkqyf44[/url]
Starts talking about Ali @ the 3:05 mark, Mike is on the brink of tearing up at one point.[/QUOTE]
Doesnt matter what Mike Tyson says. In his prime he wouldn't think this way. Tyson today just showing Ali respect. You cant take anything from what Mike says.
Tyson broke down his opponents and dominated them like no fighter I have ever seen. I don't think we'll ever see another Mike Tyson ...that level of domination was crazy. He showed up, murdered his opponent, and left. It's a toss up who would win prime vs. prime. Ali had the flash , skills, and heart. But Tysons combination of hunger, speed, and raw power when he was in his late teens was unstoppable
[QUOTE=kNicKz]Tyson broke down his opponents and dominated them like no fighter I have ever seen. I don't think we'll ever see another Mike Tyson ...that level of domination was crazy. He showed up, murdered his opponent, and left. It's a toss up who would win prime vs. prime. Ali had the flash , skills, and heart. But Tysons combination of hunger, speed, and raw power when he was in his late teens was unstoppable[/QUOTE]
Ali could go 15 rounds. Could Tyson?
Ali because Ali never beat himself.
Prime Lennox Lewis would beat both.
Smokin Joe Frazier > Tyson
And Clay handled Frazier just fine
Tyson reminds of a hw version of Andre berto. Tyson was clearly better than berto but not by nearly as much as the average Tyson fan would have you believe. He was a guy with good physical skills who couldn't make the jump from dominating cans to handling real competition.
[QUOTE=raiderfan19]Tyson reminds of a hw version of Andre berto. Tyson was clearly better than berto but not by nearly as much as the average Tyson fan would have you believe. He was a guy with good physical skills who couldn't make the jump from dominating cans to handling real competition.[/QUOTE]
:biggums:
[QUOTE=L.Kizzle]Prime Lennox Lewis would beat both.[/QUOTE]
Yep.
There isn't a heavyweight I'd take over Lennox to win a single fight apart from maybe Foreman.
Mike Tyson - The most overrated athlete in the history of sports.
Never has a guy been given the amount of leeway and the number of excuses as Tyson has over the years. People just prefer to believe the myth over the reality because it's more fun.
The reality? He was maybe the third best heavyweight of his generation. Maybe.
[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]Mike Tyson - The most overrated athlete in the history of sports.
Never has a guy been given the amount of leeway and the number of excuses as Tyson has over the years. People just prefer to believe the myth over the reality because it's more fun.
The reality? He was maybe the third best heavyweight of his generation. Maybe.[/QUOTE]
Boxing has always been a longevity biased sport, and I'm fine with that, but to deny Mike being a very special fighter at his best is meh.
The way you've come to talk about Tyson in these discussions is bordering on the point of criminally underrating him. Not this particular post, but just in general.
He was a very special fighter at his best, and yes, it may have been short livem but its true.
Lewis doesn't have the footwork or the speed to stay with Ali. He would do a lot better than Tyson though. :oldlol:
[QUOTE=bdreason]Lewis doesn't have the footwork or the speed to stay with Ali. He would do a lot better than Tyson though. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
Hes going to be planted in the middle of the ring, and keeping Ali at bay with his iron fist jab all night.
[QUOTE=plowking]Yep.
There isn't a heavyweight I'd take over Lennox to win a single fight apart from maybe Foreman.[/QUOTE]
Riddick Bowe
[QUOTE=plowking]Boxing has always been a longevity biased sport, and I'm fine with that, but to deny Mike being a very special fighter at his best is meh.
The way you've come to talk about Tyson in these discussions is bordering on the point of criminally underrating him. Not this particular post, but just in general.
He was a very special fighter at his best, and yes, it may have been short livem but its true.[/QUOTE]
I was raised on Tyson, but he was never a complete fighter. He was a devastating puncher who could dispose of anyone who would stand in front of him... but his technical abilities and boxing IQ was average at best. If his career had taken a different path, maybe he could have become a complete fighter.
Ali would most likely destroy any heavyweight in history. The only guy that would give him fits or would beat him would be Mike Tyson. Tyson was a very good fighter and it's too bad people will remember him during the Don King era. When he as young he had the ability to chop up his opponent. Break them down with body shots and then go for the head.
On the other hand, Ali vs any heavyweight in history would lose. I showed a buddy of mine some old Ali/Frazier fights and I remember he was so shocked when they announced it was a 15 round fight. Nobody does that crap anymore. It shows you how great Ali was. He was willing to go all the fuccking way.
Pristine footwork and hand speed, mentality and trash talking will give Ali the upper hand versus any fighter. Go watch Ali/Foreman and watch Ali lean on the ropes the entire fight. He would go on a flurry to win the rounds in the last minute of a round. Eventually, he knocked Foreman out. Causing Foreman to retire and fall into a deep depression.
Also, Ali was fighting at a time when racial tension was huge. Doesn't get any easier when he ducked the war too. He was admired and hated. I'm surprised nobody attempted to assassinate him. He was very controversial during that time. Knowing all of this, he still went out and beat everyone up and did it his way
[QUOTE=bdreason]I was raised on Tyson, but he was never a complete fighter. He was a devastating puncher who could dispose of anyone who would stand in front of him... but his technical abilities and boxing IQ was average at best. If his career had taken a different path, maybe he could have become a complete fighter.[/QUOTE]
Go watch Tyson vs Ribalta. He went past the the 4th round for the very first time in his career I believe. Ribalata was a very good fighter and too bad how the fight ended but you can clearly see Tyson's skill as a technical fighter.
[QUOTE=plowking]Boxing has always been a longevity biased sport, and I'm fine with that, but to deny Mike being a very special fighter at his best is meh.
The way you've come to talk about Tyson in these discussions is bordering on the point of criminally underrating him. Not this particular post, but just in general.
He was a very special fighter at his best, and yes, it may have been short livem but its true.[/QUOTE]
It's not just about longevity. It's about the myriad of excuses we have to read about every time Tyson's name pops up in a discussion, which usually centers around how he'd theoretically do against a true all-time great when the reality is he had several chances against other greats of his own era in real life and he was summarily blown out of the water each time.
If any other fan of any other athlete in any sport posted the avalanche of excuses which routinely are accepted when it comes to Tyson, they'd be laughed off the board and out of the room.
And, calling Tyson maybe the third best fighter of his generation isn't underrating him, let alone "criminally" underrating him. I was/am a big fan of Tyson. I love watching his old fights. I grew up with him knocking guys out left and right. He was the guy my generation revered and feared as we were growing up. It was a lot of fun.
But, I have too much respect for the sport to turn a blind eye to the facts (like most people do when it comes to Tyson) in favor of continuing the myths about a guy who was a devastating puncher and a promising young champion, but ultimately does not have enough substance to warrant being brought up in any "all-time" conversations.
His greatest wins were against an overblown light heavyweight and a middle aged former champion who hadn't fought in several years. He had three fights against the other best heavyweights of his generation. He was TKOed and knocked out in two of those and he bit the guy's ear off to get the other one stopped prematurely. On top of that, he was the loser in arguably the biggest upset in boxing history.
I'd love to say Tyson stacks up against the best guys who ever laced them up in the division. His actual career accomplishments don't allow me to do so.
[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]It's not just about longevity. It's about the myriad of excuses we have to read about every time Tyson's name pops up in a discussion, which usually centers around how he'd theoretically do against a true all-time great when the reality is he had several chances against other greats of his own era in real life and he was summarily blown out of the water each time.
If any other fan of any other athlete in any sport posted the avalanche of excuses which routinely are accepted when it comes to Tyson, they'd be laughed off the board and out of the room.
And, calling Tyson maybe the third best fighter of his generation isn't underrating him, let alone "criminally" underrating him. I was/am a big fan of Tyson. I love watching his old fights. I grew up with him knocking guys out left and right. He was the guy my generation revered and feared as we were growing up. It was a lot of fun.
But, I have too much respect for the sport to turn a blind eye to the facts (like most people do when it comes to Tyson) in favor of continuing the myths about a guy who was a devastating puncher and a promising young champion, but ultimately does not have enough substance to warrant being brought up in any "all-time" conversations.
His greatest wins were against an overblown light heavyweight and a middle aged former champion who hadn't fought in several years. He had three fights against the other best heavyweights of his generation. He was TKOed and knocked out in two of those and he bit the guy's ear off to get the other one stopped prematurely. On top of that, he was the loser in arguably the biggest upset in boxing history.
I'd love to say Tyson stacks up against the best guys who ever laced them up in the division. His actual career accomplishments don't allow me to do so.[/QUOTE]
:facepalm
It comes as no surprise to hear you say these things about Mike Tyson when I have heard you say some outrageous things praising Mayweather.
Stick to MMA.
:facepalm
[QUOTE=iamgine]Riddick Bowe[/QUOTE]
Funny you mention him seeing as he avoided Lennox like the plague. Did not want the fight. :oldlol:
[QUOTE=plowking]Funny you mention him seeing as he avoided Lennox like the plague. Did not want the fight. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
He tried very hard dodging Lewis but that's a big mistake because I think he would have won. He was that good.