Oscar Robertson.
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Oscar Robertson.
[QUOTE=Alan Ogg]Why'd this one get called so early compared to the others. It was too close a vote to move on in my opinion. (voted for Bird for what it's worth) Just jumped out at me.[/QUOTE]
OP hates Wilt, so he ended both votings that had Wilt close to second way too prematurely. Bird won with 27 votes, almost half of what some other spots needed, and the other ones were a much bigger difference than 4 votes. Obvious bias is obvious.
[QUOTE=Dave3]OP hates Wilt, so he ended both votings that had Wilt close to second way too prematurely. Bird won with 27 votes, almost half of what some other spots needed, and the other ones were a much bigger difference than 4 votes. Obvious bias is obvious.[/QUOTE]
:applause: :applause: :applause: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
Dave AKA "Phoenix" da GAWD! (repped)
[QUOTE=RRR3]:applause: :applause: :applause: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
Dave AKA "Phoenix" da GAWD! (repped)[/QUOTE]
And you know it's going to happen with this one right now (LeBron is beating West and Moses 14-6-5) It's not going to end until one of them catches up, or LeBron gets like a 30 vote lead. I don't understand the point of making voting threads if you change the criteria for winning every other thread.
the [B][SIZE="15"]"O"[/SIZE][/B]
[QUOTE=Dave3]And you know it's going to happen with this one right now (LeBron is beating West and Moses 14-6-5) It's not going to end until one of them catches up, or LeBron gets like a 30 vote lead. I don't understand the point of making voting threads if you change the criteria for winning every other thread.[/QUOTE]
Remember the last one he made where LeBron didn't make the top 25 all-time :oldlol:
IIRC even Shaqattack got pissed off and called him out maybe I'm remembering incorrectly though..
I have LeBron behind Robertson and West, ahead of Moses and Dr. J (sans ABA years; with ABA years he's well within the top 10).
All 5 guys are in the same tier for me, but I really don't know who to vote in.
[QUOTE=RRR3]Remember the last one he made where LeBron didn't make the top 25 all-time :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
That one's not really his control. People were just stupid after LeBron messed up in the finals. Right now though he's doing the same thing he did with his finals runs one. My only question is "why?" Why make a "vote" if you're going to try and determine who wins on your own? The vote isn't going to change anyone's mind (Kennethgriffin right now still thinks Kobe is top 5, and I still think he's not better than Hakeem or Duncan) so what's the point? Why not just make it legit so it's actually "according to ISH" as opposed to "according to ISH but revised by OP" He's not gaining anything by doing this.
List ain't that bad so far if u move Kobe to 10 from 8 and Move Duncan and Hakeem up by one.
Now it gets tricky, but it ain't even that important if LeBron is next or not, in the future he will be top 10 in every list anyways. I say LeBron, next will be Oscar from me and then West.
Oscar Robertson
Lebron James
Lebron.
............................Lebron..........Moses.......
MVP..........................3.................3...........
FMVP........................1..................1..........
CHAMP......................1.................1...........
ROTY.......................Yes..............No..........
DPOY........................0.................0...........
1st All-NBA................6.................4...........
1st All-Def.................4.................1...........
All-Star.....................8................12...........
All-Star MVP..............2.................0............
POTM.......................20................4............
Best Player?.............Yes.............Never........
Do the right thing fellas............
Moses Malone
Lebron
[QUOTE=pauk]............................Lebron..........Moses.......
MVP..........................3.................3...........
FMVP........................1..................1..........
CHAMP......................1.................1...........
ROTY.......................Yes..............No..........
DPOY........................0.................0...........
1st All-NBA................6.................4...........
1st All-Def.................4.................1...........
All-Star.....................8................12...........
All-Star MVP..............2.................0............
POTM.......................20................4............
Best Player?.............Yes.............Never........
Do the right thing fellas............[/QUOTE]
How was Moses Malone never the best player? Who was the best player in 83?
Lets be real here, its Lebron.
[QUOTE=Duncan21formvp]How was Moses Malone never the best player? Who was the best player in 83?[/QUOTE]
The triple double averaging Magic Johnson who just came of two championships and 2 FMVPs.... Then the 31-6-5 @ 56% FG Adrian Dantley made it tough to, Larry Bird, Kareem, George Gervin, Bernard King and so on...
Choosing the best player in that season was not as easy choosing the best player this season...
Love how Pauk refuses to detail why he continues to use awards to compare Lebron to players such as Oscar or West [B]when the said awards did not even exist back then.[/B]
Obvious agenda is obvious :facepalm
Jerry West.
My vote goes to LeBron. Would've been Moses before that 2012 run.
They have pretty similar achievements at this point (most importantly the 3 MVPs and Finals MVP), but LeBron was more consistently a top 3 player in the league, as evidenced by All-NBA selections and MVP votes.
Also, from watching him play, Moses' impact seemed to be mainly due to his scoring and rebounding, as opposed to LeBron's all-around dominance. This shows on the court and in stats, both regular and advanced.
Big O, imo. then Lebron after.
I find it strange that OP ended the voting for #5 between Bird/Wilt with only a total vote of 56 with a very small margin of 4 between them. Yet he let the voting for #8 between Kobe/Duncan go on for a total of 124 votes with a margin of 8 between them. Then #10 voting was over in a flash.
[QUOTE=BlackVVaves]Love how Pauk refuses to detail why he continues to use awards to compare Lebron to players such as Oscar or West [B]when the said awards did not even exist back then.[/B]
Obvious agenda is obvious :facepalm
Jerry West.[/QUOTE]
Love how BlackVVaves refuses to detail why he continues to use awards to compare Kobe to players such as Oscar or West [b]when he just voted a less awarded player over Lebron[/b]
You just have to throw in these delusional thoughts in your brain just to feel better about your blinded Lebron hatred huh?
[QUOTE=pauk]............................Lebron..........Moses.......
MVP..........................3.................3...........
FMVP........................1..................1..........
CHAMP......................1.................1...........
ROTY.......................Yes..............No..........
DPOY........................0.................0...........
1st All-NBA................6.................4...........
1st All-Def.................4.................1...........
All-Star.....................8................12...........
All-Star MVP..............2.................0............
POTM.......................20................4............
Best Player?.............Yes.............Never........
Do the right thing fellas............[/QUOTE]
Do you still not realize why these comparisons are so flawed? They don't take into consideration any seasons that a player may have finished second in voting for those awards. Are you trying to imply that those seasons are not important?
In that case though LeBron was top 2 in MVP voting once on top of his 3 MVPs, while Moses wasn't.
[QUOTE=riseagainst]Big O, imo. then Lebron after.[/QUOTE]
......................Lebron............Oscar..............West..........
MVP...................3...................1....................0..............
FMVP..................1..................0....................1...............
CHAMP...............1(the man).....1(sidekick)......1(sidekick)..
ROTY................Yes................Yes.................No.............
DPOY..............RunnerUp.........No..................No.............
1st All-NBA.........6...................9...................10.............
1st All-Def..........4...................0....................4..............
All-Star MVP........2...................3...................1..............
All-Star..............8...................12.................14..............
POTM................20..................0...................0...............
Best Player?.......Yes..............Never.............Never...........
Moses
[QUOTE=BoutPractice]In that case though LeBron was top 2 in MVP voting once on top of his 3 MVPs, while Moses wasn't.[/QUOTE]
Top 2 and Top 4 in Defensive Player of the Year Voting to.... and #1 most 1st All-Defensive team votes (even more than the guy who won DPOY that year)....
[QUOTE]
The triple double averaging Magic Johnson who just came of two championships and 2 FMVPs.... Then the 31-6-5 @ 56% FG Adrian Dantley made it tough to, Larry Bird, Kareem, George Gervin, Bernard King and so on...
Choosing the best player in that season was not as easy choosing the best player this season...
[/QUOTE]
If you told a version of ISH in 1983 that Magic was better than Moses Malone they probably would have banned you.
Moses won 3 MVPs in 4 or 5 years totally dominated the playoffs/finals in 83 and was probably as respected as anyone in sports. I remember Bird saying the toughest opponent he ever had before Jordan....was Moses.
Moses just got disregarded over time.
And all NBA team numbers between a swingman and center never add up. He has one spot while Lebron has 2. Guys like Kareem would have been all nba first team 17 years in a row with 2 spots. Moses would have had 8 or 9 straight.
oscar
[QUOTE=Sarcastic]Do you still not realize why these comparisons are so flawed? They don't take into consideration any seasons that a player may have finished second in voting for those awards. Are you trying to imply that those seasons are not important?[/QUOTE]
I am perfectly aware of that and even with that criteria Lebron prevails, lets take the MVP & DPOY for example =
Lebron has finished Top 2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10 in MVP voting all his seasons basically..
Lebron has been also in Top 2-3-4 in DPOY voting...
[QUOTE=pauk]......................Lebron............Oscar..............West..........
MVP...................3...................1....................0..............
FMVP..................1..................0....................1...............
CHAMP...............1(the man).....1(sidekick)......1(sidekick)..
ROTY................Yes................Yes.................No.............
DPOY..............RunnerUp.........No..................No.............
1st All-NBA.........6...................9...................10.............
1st All-Def..........4...................0....................4..............
All-Star MVP........2...................3...................1..............
All-Star..............8...................12.................14..............
POTM................20..................0...................0...............
Best Player?.......Yes..............Never.............Never...........[/QUOTE]
I know Lebron's accolades are impressive, more impressive than O and West and Moses. But Oscar's triple double seasons are just too incredible to let go of, just my opinion.
[QUOTE=PyrrhusX]oscar[/QUOTE]
Why? :confusedshrug: The triple double average season? Oh mi Oh my, yea, lets vote him over a much more accomplished player....
[QUOTE=riseagainst]I know Lebron's accolades are impressive, more impressive than O and West and Moses. But Oscar's triple double seasons are just too incredible to let go of, just my opinion.[/QUOTE]
Why not vote him over Hakeem, Kobe and so on aswell then (which i would never do)? :confusedshrug: Same thing actually as voting him over Lebron, as he also has accomplished more....
Speaking of triple doubles, numbers... Lebron is not doing so bad in that area either and he is doing it an a modern era, where there are more teams, better competition and much less possessions per game...
Even Oscar acknowledges that: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdnBsCmST_E[/url]
It's true that All-NBA comparisons don't work with two spots VS one.
However, for the sake of argument, if there was only one swingman spot, LeBron most likely would have been voted at least four times - from 2009 to 2012 almost certainly.
The fact that LeBron is already being considered ahead of Moses while he may have 7 great years of basketball left in him says a lot about him. It's not a knock on Moses, who might be one of the most under appreciated stars in the history of the game.
[QUOTE=pauk]I am perfectly aware of that and even with that criteria Lebron prevails, lets take the MVP & DPOY for example =
Lebron has finished Top 2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10 in MVP voting all his seasons basically..
Lebron has been also in Top 2-3-4 in DPOY voting...[/QUOTE]
Derrick Rose has an MVP and a ROTY. Isiah Thomas has neither.
Derrick Rose must be better than Isiah Thomas, using your logic.
[QUOTE=pauk]Why not vote him over Hakeem, Kobe and so on aswell then (which i would never do)? :confusedshrug: Same thing actually as voting him over Lebron, as he also has accomplished more....[/QUOTE]
because when you combine individual stats and career accolades together, Big O's place just seems a tiny bit ahead of Lebron's. But Hakeem having 2 championships and 2 fmvps while playing at that incredible level that he did just cannot be surpassed just by Big O's triple doub seasons. Like 1 championship can be overshadowed by incredible individual performances. But having 2 championships is alot harder to beat just by stats alone.But if Lebron wins 1 more he'll definitely jump several spots.
Edit: they are basically toe to toe, I think. Let's say if Lebron were to retire right now. Then in a few years I might change my mind and perspective on things. Maybe I'm just having a slow morning right now and I just can't get over those triple double seasons. :confusedshrug:
I am between Moses and Lebron on this one, i think i will go with Lebron.
[QUOTE=riseagainst]because when you combine individual stats and career accolades together, Big O's place just seems a tiny bit ahead of Lebron's. But Hakeem having 2 championships and 2 fmvps while playing at that incredible level that he did just cannot be surpassed just by Big O's triple doub seasons. Like 1 championship can be overshadowed by incredible individual performances. But having 2 championships is alot harder to beat just by stats alone.But if Lebron wins 1 more he'll definitely jump several spots.
Edit: they are basically toe to toe, I think. Let's say if Lebron were to retire right now. Then in a few years I might change my mind and perspective on things. Maybe I'm just having a slow morning right now and I just can't get over those triple double seasons. :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
Hekeem's titles come with a caveat though: Jordan didn't play.
[QUOTE=Sarcastic]Hekeem's titles come with a caveat though: Jordan didn't play.[/QUOTE]
meh I think that's a terrible excuse to discredit someone's championship run (despite it being true :lol). That's like saying shaq's 00-02 runs were sh*t because he played against terrible competition in the finals.