Oscar Robertson is the choice. Seems like the good choice.
Printable View
Oscar Robertson is the choice. Seems like the good choice.
[QUOTE=DTreats]NBA, not ABA.
Better luck next time.[/QUOTE]
Why isn't Julius comparable or even better than West NBA-wise?
Julius played 11 seasons in the NBA to West's 14. In less time they were equal in championships.
Julius has 1 MVP to West's 0. Julius had 2 ASMVP to West's 1. Career statistics are close. Julius NBA career was 22/6/4/50%. Has been an NBA all-star starter his whole career and has never missed the playoffs. He revolutionized the game to be played above the rim, was a decent 3 point shooter despite he 3-point line being new to the game. His second best player before Moses was probably George McGinnis, whereas West had Elgin Baylor before Wilt, a top 5 SF of all-time.
Too me Julius has a damn strong case at this spot. He's a career winner percentafe wise.
Oscar
[QUOTE=DaHeezy][B]Julius had 2 ASMVP to West's 1[/B]. Career statistics are close. Julius NBA career was 22/6/4/50%. [B]Has been an NBA all-star starter his whole career [/B]and [B]has never missed the playoffs[/B]. He revolutionized the game to be played above the rim,[/QUOTE]
do these bolded really matter? or are they just a product of being on deep and talented teams, and being a popular figure?
[QUOTE] was a decent 3 point shooter despite he 3-point line being new to the game.[/QUOTE]
:biggums:
he made 0.1 threes per game in his career, and had a career high of 0.4 threes made per game
he wasnt a three point shooter. at all.
[QUOTE]His second best player before Moses was probably George McGinnis, whereas West had Elgin Baylor before Wilt, a top 5 SF of all-time.[/QUOTE]
he has played with some great players
doug collins, world b free, caldwell jones, daryl dawkins, bobby jones, mo cheeks, andrew toney
not all-world kinda talent, but still, he had plenty of help
i think the only justification for having the doctor this high, is if you really value how he revolutionised the game, from dunking, to being such a huge part of the aba, and to being one of the first black superstars embraced by america. what he did for the game.
i vote for [B]oscar robertson[/B]
West
Anyone who votes for Oscar over West deserves to be mauled by a Siberian tiger.
[QUOTE=DTreats]Isaiah Thomas[/QUOTE]
:facepalm
[QUOTE=chips93]do these bolded really matter? or are they just a product of being on deep and talented teams, and being a popular figure?[/QUOTE]
Grant it being voted in is due to popularity and it's more of a materialistic item, but the best do tend to achieve these monuments. It's not a huge case, but it's a case.
Making the playoffs your whole career is definately a notable accomplishment. Considering the players you named, if Julius wasn't there they'd go nowhere. Comparing the depth of the team you can say Julius had a little more depth but the team with Elgin Baylor is overall better. It's like comparing 2001 Lakers to the 2001 Blazers.
[QUOTE]:biggums:
he made 0.1 threes per game in his career, and had a career high of 0.4 threes made per game
he wasnt a three point shooter. at all.[/QUOTE]
I'm not claiming he was a 3 point shooter, I'm just stating that he had the capability.
[QUOTE=DaHeezy]
Making the playoffs your whole career is definitely a notable accomplishment. Considering the players you named, if Julius wasn't there they'd go nowhere. Comparing the depth of the team you can say Julius had a little more depth but the team with Elgin Baylor is overall better. It's like comparing 2001 Lakers to the 2001 Blazers.
[/QUOTE]
oh, definitely, but julius still played on some very talented rosters
Elgin Baylor
Oscar
[QUOTE=Gifted Mind]:facepalm[/QUOTE]
What is so strange? He should be top 20. I'd put him at 15.
[QUOTE=fsvr54]What is so strange? He should be top 20. I'd put him at 15.[/QUOTE]
It isn't too far fetched considering some rank him the second greatest PG of all-time
[QUOTE=fsvr54]What is so strange? He should be top 20. I'd put him at 15.[/QUOTE]
The strange part was Jerry West and Oscar Robertson were possible choices
Isiah
West
[QUOTE=chips93]do these bolded really matter? or are they just a product of being on deep and talented teams, and being a popular figure?
:biggums:
he made 0.1 threes per game in his career, and had a career high of 0.4 threes made per game
he wasnt a three point shooter. at all.
he has played with some great players
doug collins, world b free, caldwell jones, daryl dawkins, bobby jones, mo cheeks, andrew toney
not all-world kinda talent, but still, he had plenty of help
i think the only justification for having the doctor this high, is if you really value how he revolutionised the game, from dunking, to being such a huge part of the aba, and to being one of the first black superstars embraced by america. what he did for the game.
i vote for [B]oscar robertson[/B][/QUOTE]
I vote for oscar also. BUt if you think all Doc did was dunk you must have never seen him play. He was unstoppable.Did you mention Caldwell Jones
:coleman:
the big o
Jerry West
Oscar put Oscar on them West Laker teams they beat the Celtics at least once
[QUOTE=oolalaa]Anyone who votes for Oscar over West deserves to be mauled by a Siberian tiger.[/QUOTE]
I'll count that as a vote for West, yes?
Oscar Robertson
Jerry West.
The Logo
Oscar or West...
Seems like West is known more for his Playoff performances while Oscar's know for his all around game and triple doubles.
Both got the All-NBA team accolades, both got the championship, as the 2nd best players, both were great scorers and able to get a lot of assists. Oscar has an MVP which West doesn't, but West has a Finals MVP which Oscar doesn't. West has had a lot more team success. Even though they both won a championship, West been to 9 NBA Finals and was real close to having multiple years. Oscar hasn't won many playoff series in his career. obviously West had a better team throughout since he had Elgin Baylor as a teammate since he was drafted, while Oscar never got anyone on the caliber until he was already on his last legs. So using team success isn't really fair for these two, but you can't take away those 6 NBA Finals runs before Wilt came to LA that West got too.
If West's teammate Wilt didn't shoot 2-11 FT in a 1 point loss in Game 4 of the 69 Finals, then West would have had multiple rings. West had 40 points in that game. West was a dominant Finals performer, and I think that gives him the slight edge. So I go with Jerry West.
Julius Erving.
[quote=Duncan21formvp]Julius Erving.[/quote]
Got Havlicek and Baylor to come at the smalll forward spot before Erving.
lol it took lebron 1 ring to get @ 11.
Only on ISH
Dr. J
[QUOTE=talkingconch]lol it took lebron 1 ring to get @ 11.
Only on ISH[/QUOTE]
It took wilt 2 to get to 6. And kobe 2 as the the guy to get to 8 :confusedshrug:
Jerry West.
Dr. J is quite overrated .... even if you want to include his ABA accomplishments.
[QUOTE=Gifted Mind]The strange part was Jerry West and Oscar Robertson were possible choices[/QUOTE]
Not to mention IsAiah Thomas as he spelled it currently plays for the Kings lol.
[QUOTE=Snoop_Cat]
Dr. J is quite overrated .... even if you want to include his ABA accomplishments.[/QUOTE]
Care to explain your reasoning for why you think this?
Oscar and he should of been 11
West
Jerry West
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]Oscar or West...
Seems like West is known more for his Playoff performances while Oscar's know for his all around game and triple doubles.
Both got the All-NBA team accolades, both got the championship, as the 2nd best players, both were great scorers and able to get a lot of assists. Oscar has an MVP which West doesn't, but West has a Finals MVP which Oscar doesn't. West has had a lot more team success. Even though they both won a championship, West been to 9 NBA Finals and was real close to having multiple years. Oscar hasn't won many playoff series in his career. obviously West had a better team throughout since he had Elgin Baylor as a teammate since he was drafted, while Oscar never got anyone on the caliber until he was already on his last legs. So using team success isn't really fair for these two, but you can't take away those 6 NBA Finals runs before Wilt came to LA that West got too.
If West's teammate Wilt didn't shoot 2-11 FT in a 1 point loss in Game 4 of the 69 Finals, then West would have had multiple rings. West had 40 points in that game. West was a dominant Finals performer, and I think that gives him the slight edge. So I go with Jerry West.[/QUOTE]
West DOES have an MVP.
Unfortunately, voters have no ability, or willing, to apply any sort of context. In 69/70, West led the Lakers to 46 wins with Wilt, Baylor and Hairston missing a combined 125 games. Wilt missed damn near the whole season. They were 1-7 without west. He led them on a 9 game winning streak at the end of January in which he averaged 34ppg. With West in the lineup, they were 10-12 against the 4 best teams in the league. They were 2-4 against the Knicks, but West averaged 34ppg against them, including three 40+ point games. For the season, he averaged a 31/5/8 on 50% shooting.
Meanwhile, Reed averaged a 22/14/2 on the most stacked team in the league that had no notable injuries. This was easily his best defensive season, but he was certainly no Russ or Wilt as a defensive anchor.
And, btw, West has TWO Finals MVPs. Reed would definitely have deserved it if he had played the entire 7 games, but he didn't.
Oscar
west
ISH has done a pretty damn good job with the list so far, thats almost exactly how my normal top 13 list looks like with the exception of Wilts current standing...