KG
The Big Ticket
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KG
The Big Ticket
Damn....Hakeem got underrated again. :facepalm
I'll vote for Barkley anyway.
[QUOTE=fsvr54][B]Isaiah[/B] > Barkley[/QUOTE]
:oldlol: How?
This thread series has quietly morphed from the greatest players of all time to poster's favorite players of all time.
Dr. J is one of my 3 favorite NBA players, ever. But, how he was ranked above Malone and Pettit, even Baylor, is beyond me. :facepalm
Anyway, my vote goes to [B]Karl Malone[/B]. I always feel shaky voting for him, because it escapes me how much of his individual game and production was supplemented by Stockton and the pick and roll mastery. However, results are still results at the end of the day. He still dominated the PF position in the 90s, and walked away with 2 MVPs, and two Finals appearances (albeit, he choked at the free throw line and in other moments, but leading your team to two Finals appearances is no easy task).
[QUOTE=BlackVVaves]This thread series as quietly morphed from the greatest players of all time to poster's favorite players of all time.
Dr. J is one of my 3 favorite NBA players, ever. But, how he was ranked above Malone and Pettit, even Baylor, is beyond me. :facepalm
Anyway, my vote goes to [B]Karl Malone[/B]. I always feel shaky voting for him, because it escapes me how much of his individual game and production was supplemented by Stockton and the pick and roll mastery. However, results are still results at the end of the day. He still dominated the PF position in the 90s, and walked away with 2 MVPs, and two Finals appearances (albeit, he choked at the free throw line and in other moments, but leading your team to two Finals appearances is no easy task).[/QUOTE]
2nd in total points should make him top20 AT LEAST
[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]Damn....Hakeem got underrated again. :facepalm
I'll vote for Barkley anyway.
:oldlol: How?[/QUOTE]
Accomplishments: Isaiah
Skill: It's debateable. What did Barkley do better than Isaiah other than rebound (since he was a PF)?
People voting Zeke over Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, KG, Pettit, and Baylor?
:roll:
How can you even take Isiah over David Robinson?
21 PPG | 11 RPB | 3 APG | 3 BPG | 51% FG
1 MVP - Defensive Player of the year - 2 rings
Zeke?
19 PPG | 4 RPG | 9 APG | 2 SPG | 45% FG
1 FMVP - 2 rings
I've seen it all on ISH.
Kevin Garnett
Dirk
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]Is it true that Mikan played in the Playoffs with a broken leg? That's what I've heard from Abe, don't know if t's true or not.[/QUOTE]
not sure...I did some research, and many noted that he scored 32 points with a broken leg in the 51 playoffs, which corresponds to this game:
[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/195104030ROC.html[/url]
I went into the archives and could find no record of him breaking his leg, though he did hurt his ankle in this game:
[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/195103170TRI.html[/url]
here are some quotes:
[QUOTE=03/19/51 - New York Times]Mikan was hampered by an ankle injury but his 14 points raised his season's total to a new high of 1,932 and a record 28.4-per-game average.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=03/22/51 - Chicago Daily Tribune]Even on an injured ankle George Mikan got 41 points tonight as the Minneapolis Lakers won their opening game in the National Basketball association playoffs.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=03/24/51 - Daily Boston Globe]Mikan, limping slightly from an ankle injury, left the game after 15 minutes.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=03/25/51 - Daily Boston Globe]Mikan's sore ankle, however, may cost the Minneapolis Lakers their fourth straight playoff title and the National Basket Ball Association championship, with $50,000 in prize money at stake.
He suffered the injury against Tri-Cities last Saturday and it has not responded to treatment. It did not bother him in the playoff opener against the Indianapolis Olympians Wednesday as he scored 41 points in leading the Lakers to victory. It was a different story last nigt.
Bespectacled George limped up and down the big court at the Butler Field house for 15 minutes and wound up with one field goal before he was replaced by Vern Mikkelsen.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=04/01/51 - New York Times]Crippled George Mikan, whose injured ankle seems to be getting worse, played all but sixty seconds tonight and was definitely off.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=04/04/51 - Daily Boston Globe]George Mikan, the Lakers injury-hobbled star, canned 32 points before he fouled out with one minute and 20 seconds left.[/QUOTE]
so take that for what it's worth; either way, I don't think Abe made this one up
I guess there are three possibilities:
(1) there were two separate injuries, but the leg injury wasn't reported until some time later
(2) there was only an ankle injury, and eventually through rumors, storytelling, etc. it became a broken leg
(3) he shattered everything in his leg in one devastating injury, ankle and otherwise
no clue what to think, but I'd imagine we need a local paper from Minneapolis to tell us more (the game was actually played in Illinois, but the Chicago Tribune didn't mention the injury in the game report
[QUOTE=fsvr54]Accomplishments: Isaiah
Skill: It's debateable. What did Barkley do better than Isaiah other than rebound (since he was a PF)?[/QUOTE]
Uh, score?
Barkley has [B]5 seasons[/B] where he averaged more than [B]25 points per game.[/B] Of those 5 seasons, only [U]1[/U] of them featured Barkley averaging under 4 assists per game.
Isiah's highest PPG season average was 23.
In fact, forget about statistics. If you watched basketball both players play, you'd know Zeke was never the scorer that Chuck was. So to say all Barkley did better than Zeke was rebound is, to put it elegantly, dumb as ****.
And, for you to imply the reasoning behind his rebounding prowless was because "he was a PF" show's your lack of eptitude for the game's history. There were [I]guards[/I] taller than Charles Barkley, yet the man would collect 14, 15, sometimes 20 rebounds in a game like he was 7'0.
Shame on you.
Karl malone
Kevin Garnett
....................Barkley.......Malone.......Garnett......Robinson.......
MVP..................1...............2...............1.................1............
FMVP................0...............0................0................0.............
CHAMP..............0...............0...............1.................2.............
ROTY...............No.............No..............No..............Yes...........
DPOY................0...............0...............1.................1.............
1st All-NBA........5..............11..............4.................4.............
1st All-Def.........0...............3...............9.................4.............
All-Star............11.............14..............14...............10............
All-Star MVP......1...............2...............1.................0.............
POTM...............4...............7................9................4.............
PPG................22.1..........25.0...........19.3............21.1..........
RPG................11.7..........10.1...........10.6............10.6.........
APG.................3.9............3.5..............4.0.............2.5..........
BPG.................0.8............0.8..............1.5.............3.0..........
SPG.................1.5............1.4..............1.3.............1.4..........
PER Rating......24.6..........23.9............23.3............26.2.........
Thats about it... this is extremly close, but i am gona go with KARL MALONE...
[B]Barkley by Far: Top 10 Player Statistically
Barkley Top 10 All Time in EFF
Barkley Top 10 All Time in PER (Season)
Barlley Top 8 All Time in WS Per 48 Minutes
Barkley Top 9 All Time in PER (Play-Offs)
Barkley Top 5 All Time in Plus/Minus (+/-)
Bakley Top 4 All Time in Shot Made/Missed Diferential[/B]
[QUOTE=Round Mound][B]Barkley by Far: Top 10 Player Statistically
Barkley Top 10 All Time in EFF
Barkley Top 10 All Time in PER (Season)
Barlley Top 8 All Time in WS Per 48 Minutes
Barkley Top 9 All Time in PER (Play-Offs)
Barkley Top 5 All Time in Plus/Minus (+/-)
Bakley Top 4 All Time in Shot Made/Missed Diferential[/B][/QUOTE]
Cherry picking at it's finest.
And I'm glad that we're not judging players just based on stats.
[QUOTE=pauk]....................Barkley.......Malone.......Garnett......Robinson.......
MVP..................1...............2...............1.................1............
FMVP................0...............0................0................0.............
CHAMP..............0...............0...............1.................1.............
ROTY...............No.............No..............No..............Yes...........
DPOY................0...............0...............1.................1.............
1st All-NBA........5..............11..............4.................4.............
1st All-Def.........0...............3...............9.................4.............
All-Star............11.............14..............14...............10............
All-Star MVP......1...............2...............1.................0.............
POTM...............4...............7................9................4.............
PPG................22.1..........25.0...........19.3............21.1..........
RPG................11.7..........10.1...........10.6............10.6.........
APG.................3.9............3.5..............4.0.............2.5..........
BPG.................0.8............0.8..............1.5.............3.0..........
SPG.................1.5............1.4..............1.3.............1.4..........
PER Rating......24.6..........23.9............23.3............26.2.........
Thats about it... this is extremly close, but i am gona go with KARL MALONE...[/QUOTE]
I know this is picking nits, but it still bugs me. It's still not real fair to use POTM in this case because they didn't start giving it to a player from each conference until the 2001-2002 season. That coincides with basically all of Garnett's prime and none of the other three players primes.
[QUOTE=pauk]....................Barkley.......Malone.......Garnett......Robinson.......
MVP..................1...............2...............1.................1............
FMVP................0...............0................0................0.............
CHAMP..............0...............0...............1.................1.............
ROTY...............No.............No..............No..............Yes...........
DPOY................0...............0...............1.................1.............
1st All-NBA........5..............11..............4.................4.............
1st All-Def.........0...............3...............9.................4.............
All-Star............11.............14..............14...............10............
All-Star MVP......1...............2...............1.................0.............
POTM...............4...............7................9................4.............
PPG................22.1..........25.0...........19.3............21.1..........
RPG................11.7..........10.1...........10.6............10.6.........
APG.................3.9............3.5..............4.0.............2.5..........
BPG.................0.8............0.8..............1.5.............3.0..........
SPG.................1.5............1.4..............1.3.............1.4..........
PER Rating......24.6..........23.9............23.3............26.2.........
Thats about it... this is extremly close, but i am gona go with KARL MALONE...[/QUOTE]
what's 'CHAMP'? if that's rings, the Admiral should have two
don't include PER and POTM
Pippen
[QUOTE=millwad]Cherry picking at it's finest.
And I'm glad that we're not judging players just based on stats.[/QUOTE]
[B]These are not "Just Stats"...This is Broken Down Stats...Who Tell Us The Truth of Real Production Per Game, Efficiency and Dominance. Its Not What We Like or Wan`t. Its Closest to the Truth of a Players Real Level.[/B]
[QUOTE=fpliii]what's 'CHAMP'? if that's rings, the Admiral should have two
don't include PER and POTM[/QUOTE]
[B]Rings as a 2nd Option. David Robinsons Post Season PER is Lower Than His Season PER.[/B]
[QUOTE=pauk]....................Barkley.......Malone.......Garnett......Robinson.......
MVP..................1...............2...............1.................1............
FMVP................0...............0................0................0.............
CHAMP..............0...............0...............1.................1.............
ROTY...............No.............No..............No..............Yes...........
DPOY................0...............0...............1.................1.............
1st All-NBA........5..............11..............4.................4.............
1st All-Def.........0...............3...............9.................4.............
All-Star............11.............14..............14...............10............
All-Star MVP......1...............2...............1.................0.............
POTM...............4...............7................9................4.............
PPG................22.1..........25.0...........19.3............21.1..........
RPG................11.7..........10.1...........10.6............10.6.........
APG.................3.9............3.5..............4.0.............2.5..........
BPG.................0.8............0.8..............1.5.............3.0..........
SPG.................1.5............1.4..............1.3.............1.4..........
PER Rating......24.6..........23.9............23.3............26.2.........
Thats about it... this is extremly close, but i am gona go with KARL MALONE...[/QUOTE]
Robinson has 2 rings, not 1.
Also, again, All Star MVP and Player of the Month really doesn't need to be included here, as we've debated already in the past. I'd also take out PER rating.
The numbers and other achievements speak for themselves.
I would also take out Robinson (for now) in your comparison chart Pauk, and instead include Pettit and Baylor.
Man. I still can't believe people can sit here and vote Zeke over the likes of Malone, KG, and Pettit with a straight face :oldlol:
Karl Malone
The next couple of slots are going to be very PF heavy. With that said I'll go with Barkely
[QUOTE=fpliii]not sure...I did some research, and many noted that he scored 32 points with a broken leg in the 51 playoffs, which corresponds to this game:
[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/195104030ROC.html[/url]
I went into the archives and could find no record of him breaking his leg, though he did hurt his ankle in this game:
[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/195103170TRI.html[/url]
here are some quotes:
so take that for what it's worth; either way, I don't think Abe made this one up
I guess there are three possibilities:
(1) there were two separate injuries, but the leg injury wasn't reported until some time later
(2) there was only an ankle injury, and eventually through rumors, storytelling, etc. it became a broken leg
(3) he shattered everything in his leg in one devastating injury, ankle and otherwise
no clue what to think, but I'd imagine we need a local paper from Minneapolis to tell us more (the game was actually played in Illinois, but the Chicago Tribune didn't mention the injury in the game report[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the info. :cheers:
[QUOTE=fsvr54]Accomplishments: Isaiah
Skill: It's debateable. What did Barkley do better than Isaiah other than rebound [B](since he was a PF)?[/B][/QUOTE]
So what?
It isn't as if his impact on the game from crashing boards is any less "since he was a PF". It just is what it is. A player on the court, crashing the hell out of boards and impacting the game because of it.
Isiah Thomas has been Top 5 in MVP Voting [B]1[/B] time. 5th in 1983-84 Season.
Take that for what it's worth :confusedshrug:
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]Isiah Thomas has been Top 5 in MVP Voting [B]1[/B] time. 5th in 1983-84 Season.
Take that for what it's worth :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
When Barkley brought down 20 rebounds, it had less impact than it otherwise would since he was a PF. The game takes that into consideration and somehow makes it count for less.
[QUOTE=fpliii]what's 'CHAMP'? if that's rings, the Admiral should have two
don't include PER and POTM[/QUOTE]
Or ASG MVP. If people are using that to give someone the nod over another player, then they need to seriously reconsider the way they rank players.
Karl Malone
This Is Re Dick U Lust
[b]elgin Baylor[/b]
karl malone
If my count is correct so far we have
Garnett - 11
Malone - 9
Isiah - 6
Barkley - 6 (+1 from a poster under 100)
Baylor - 3
Mikan - 2
Dirk - 2
Havlicek,Robinson,Pippen & Pettit - 1
[B]Karl Malone[/B]
[IMG]http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/329138/a_malone_i_medium.jpg[/IMG]
Lol @ people voting for Barkley over Malone or even Dirk. Just becuase everyone sucks him off and he has a cushy job where he is relevant people overrate him. I guarantee if Karl Malone was the smartass commentator with a funny personality and Barkley hunted and lived in the woods people would be picking Malone. What a joke.
Edit: Wow KG getting overrated hard, this is a guy who proved in his career he was incapable of being built around as the first option. When I'm talking top 20 players all-time I want guys that can lead me to a title. At least Malone had his teams consistently elite. KG couldn't even make the playoffs IN HIS PRIME.
[QUOTE=MiamiThrice][B]Karl Malone[/B]
[IMG]http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/329138/a_malone_i_medium.jpg[/IMG]
Lol @ people voting for Barkley over Malone or even Dirk. Just becuase everyone sucks him off and he has a cushy job where he is relevant people overrate him. I guarantee if Karl Malone was the smartass commentator with a funny personality and Barkley hunted and lived in the woods people would be picking Malone. What a joke.
Edit: Wow KG getting overrated hard, this is a guy who proved in his career he was incapable of being built around as the first option. [B]When I'm talking top 20 players all-time I want guys that can lead me to a title. At least Malone had his teams consistently elite[/B]. KG couldn't even make the playoffs IN HIS PRIME.[/QUOTE]
Based on your own theory you shouldn't be voting Malone until at least 21 now should you. :coleman:
[QUOTE=Kews1]Based on your own theory you shouldn't be voting Malone until at least 21 now should you. :coleman:[/QUOTE]
Part of winning a title is about luck. The Jazz had some great ****ing teams in the 80s. There were just better teams at the time. What I credit Malone for is constantly being in the hunt for that title. The Jazz were always a team people didn't want to **** with. KGs timberwolves were pretty much irrelevant. They were never a threat for the title and pretty much just a joke of a franchise.
KG is a 2nd option player. Not a first.
Elgin Gay Balor
First team all NBA for his first ten seasons in the NBA
I'm gonna vote for the guy that was the first player I liked.
[b]Kevin 'The Big Ticket' Garnett[/b]
Charles Barkley.
[QUOTE=MiamiThrice]Part of winning a title is about luck. The Jazz had some great ****ing teams in the 80s. There were just better teams at the time. What I credit Malone for is constantly being in the hunt for that title. The Jazz were always a team people didn't want to **** with. KGs timberwolves were pretty much irrelevant. They were never a threat for the title and pretty much just a joke of a franchise.[/QUOTE]
And KG was unlucky to be drafted by the Timberwolves who were unable to keep players such as Marbury, were stripped of first round draft picks, and unable to put a decent team around KG. When they did put a semi-decent team around him consiting of Cassell and Sprewell, KG LED them to the top seed in the west and right to the WCF, where they came up against the Lakers who have Shaq & Kobe who were both All-NBA first team by that time. You obviously underestimate how bad the teams KG was given in Minny was. There was no building around KG the franchise was run like shit hence why he left.
[QUOTE=MiamiThrice]KG is a 2nd option player. Not a first.[/QUOTE]
Are you aware that KG was the first option on the championship celtics team?? People's idea of the whole season is skewed because Paul Pierce won the FMVP whereas people who were actually watching throughout the season will tell you that KG led the team the entire season. He was ****ing 3rd in MVP voting and won DPOY???
IDIOT :facepalm